You are here

We lost our case

SAHsigh's picture

We lost our case. BM is moving out of state with kids in a few months and our 50/50 custody arrangement is about to become 70/30. We're waiting on the judge to write up the final order. Our lawyer told us that our best chance of spending more than 30% of our time with the kids was to move to the same area as BM. She thinks that things won't go well for us in appeals -- she says that it never does.

So now my partner is in tears and feels like he's failed as a father, we're losing the kids during some of the most important moments in their lives, and we're going to get hit for CS. My partner is talking about moving to follow the kids and I can't see how that's going to help us at all. We can't find any work for his field out there and I was about to start grad school in the fall. We've lived in our house for 3 years so I'm not even sure how we can get a loan on another house.... And then, if we did move, what's to say that we would even get the kids more often? What a crummy day.

Jsmom's picture

Sorry, that sucks. I will tell you that my experience in court is that the best thing is to accept the ruling and work with it. It never goes well for dads in these cases and all you do is spend lots of money. We spent 10K fighting BM and she got full custody of my SD at 14 and now at 17 the kid is ruined....Long ugly story.

overworkedmom's picture

I am so sorry. Just don't make any rash decisions. Tell your Dh to take this slowly and think it through. You guys have your lives to keep moving forward and think about too. AND from what you said before BM is flakey, she might even be back in 6 months!

Cocoa's picture

i'm sorry. go slowly here. yes, it's another loss for your dh (and you), but the two of you have each other! isn't that the reason you got married? your life doesn't have to revolve around skids.

PolyMom's picture

I'm so sorry. DH and I had to give up on court because of health and financial reasons. It was tearing the kids apart, so we're working around court as best we can. I hate relying on the courts to determine your life for you, because you never know what they'll decide.

EvilWickedSM's picture

Oh my goodness, I did not expect that to happen at all! I'm so sorry for you guys. I wish I had some wors of encouragment but I just don't know what to say to try to make this better for you.

Anon2009's picture

I'm so sorry. That's so sad, especially for the kids.

One OP's DH lives far from his kids and sends them care packages each month. Something for DH to think about. He may want to send them certified if he can, so BM will have to sign her name, showing that they got to her house.

The fact that he now has to pay more CS $ucks too. All NCPs should support their kids financially but the CS increase rubs me the wrong way because of the circumstances.

jumanji's picture

An appeal will only have a chance of working if there is an error in how the law was applied. Not liking the result is NOT a reason to appeal. Changing lawyers won't make a difference if there are no actual grounds for appeal.

thinkthrice's picture

This is a blow, but not one that can't be recovered from. The fact is that today's western society does NOT value fathers--as seen by that stupid court ruling. They only like the $$$ in CS that NCP biodad brings in. You probably already know that there is NO vested interest in having dads have 50/50 with little or no CS as these agencies get federal "incentives" aka kickbacks for every dollar in CS they can wrench from (usually) NCP biodad.

Do not be in a hurry to chase the children now nor throw lots of money down that legal rabbit hole. Many times we have to "throw in the towel" in the face of today's anti-father sentiment which is legislated into court procedures.

By moving away from biodad, the BM has shown that she WILL PAS out the children and now has court approval to do so. You've done everything you can--it's very sad but pretty much a given nowadays.

Guilty Daddy in my case lives about 20 minutes away from his children but they haven't seen him in well over four years now; their ages are 17, 15 and stb 11. Guilty Daddy makes 33K a year here in NYS but has to pay $1,000 a month out of that. Needless to say I am the sole financial support.

Your DH has to start making a life with you, hopefully instead of BLAMING you for this outcome which, unfortuntely is EXTREMELY common.

Prepare yourself to deal with your emotionally downtrodden DH and ever so slowly try to make a new life for yourselves.

BTW, Guilty Daddy in my case wanted to move heaven and earth to move from 45 minutes one way to 15 minutes to be "closer to the children" (TM). What usually happens then is it BACKFIRES severely. The BM steps up the PAS and unless you have literally tens of thousands to throw away in legal fees, it continues on ad nauseum as the courts wink at the BM's alienation. I sold my wonderful home that I had raised MY bios in--a move I regret to this day. At the time my commute increased and so did my expenses because of the move. Let me tell you it was NOT appreciated--especially not MY many, many sacrifices--Guilty Daddy took and still does take me for granted.

As soon as we moved closer, this freaked the BM out because her lies to the community that we didn't go to skid's events blew up in her face. She responded by moving closer yet to the original PASinator, HER BM. Then she really ramped up the PAS, the phoney CPS reports started and the rest is history.

SanAntonioSoccerMom's picture

Do you have to appeal or would/could you file for a reconsideration?

SAHsigh's picture

We are in Pennsylvania. My partner contested the move and pushed to maintain 50/50. I'm not entirely sure what the final order will say but I suspect it'll be similar to whatever BM's lawyer drew up. Our lawyer didn't think that an appeal would do us any good. She mentioned other cases similar to ours where the appeals didn't change the outcome. We're still going to file for a reconsideration but our lawyer doesn't have a lot of good to say about our chances. My partner's parents are already pushing for us to appeal and get a different lawyer. (His father echoed the earlier comment about getting a male attorney this time.)

BM still hasn't had an offer on her house. It's $400K house and the average house cost closer to $100K in our area. I don't even know if she'll be able to sell it. I don't even know if the order is contingent on her move or not. All I know is that she's free to move away with the kids and we're not going to see them much.

Understandably, my partner is taking this really hard. (I suppose I am, too...) He said that our house doesn't feel like a home without the kids, it's just a house. I started crying again and told him that I'm still here. He apologized and said that it wasn't the same without the kids and that he didn't want to hurt me, too. I know what he means but it feels like we're going to have to start our relationship over somehow. We've always been so focused on the kids and how best to care for them. We spend our time without them well enough but, well, this is going to be hard on both of us.

Anon2009's picture

Please suggest to your partner that he seek professional help. That has to be very hard on a person. Hopefully counseling can help him work through his feelings. If money is an issue he could call your local YMCA and ask them for counselors' names. Or he could find a religious leader.

Here is another forum he might consider joining if he feels comfortable. http://forum.dadsdivorce.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45717

If you live near a huge city in PA (or even if you don't) your partner may be able to find a support group for divorced dads.

CarpeOmnia's picture

Your partner's lawyer is probably right in letting you know that an appeal wouldn't do much to help
your situation at this point. Parents living a fair distance apart from each other and kids being in school
doesn't allow for 50/50 parenting. Maybe when the kids are older they will wish to move in full time with
their Dad.

As for your partner's parents putting their oar in it and pushing you guys to get a different lawyer and
appeal this CO...that's easy for them to say, unless they are also offering to foot the bill for it.
They would just be putting more pressure on the situation that you guys don't need.

EvilWickedSM's picture

Serene Hopes....wonderful advice.

I have some advice for you regarding not going through court. While you guys are on amicable terms at least get everything that you currently agree to filed with the courts, if you have not already. It wouldn't cost much to find an attorney to do that. My ex and I have been split for 8 years and have always had an amicable relationship, until now. Now I want to move about 30-40 minutes further away and am offering to continue to meet him in the current meeting spot, and he is fighting me about it unless I drop CS in half. (I have had sole custody since the split and he sees her EOWE). I wish now that we would have gone through the courts, at least I would have a leg to stand on now that he is completely reneging on previously agreed upon things.

NewMommy1008's picture

I know exactly how you feel. I'm going for a doctorate and I'm 21. He said that if his EW moves with his now 2 year old son, he will follow him at any cost. Even if it affects our future marriage, future children or if I'm in a medical program or internship. He said he doesn't care no matter what, he will chase him down.

thinkthrice's picture

You should seriously think about running! I admire biodad's devotion, but it's unrealistic. What needs to happen is:

Divorce should be last resort, obviously
50/50 with no CS changing hands should be the norm
Parents should be warned beforehand that moving away will not be tolerated except in cases of extreme financial loss
Any sort of PAS should be punishable by loss of custody and visitation PERMANENTLY

In early times, the children were awarded to the parent that was best able to FINANCIALLY take care of the children--99% of the time, that was biodad. Seems to have been a much more sensible situation. Nuturing is overrated IMHO--by the time the child is a toddler, the nuturing phase should be morphed into the training-to-be-an-independent-and-responsible-adult-and-progressing-toward-leaving-the-nest-phase

Today I see extreme overcoddling, mostly on the part of BMs who don't want to see their not-so-little-ones EVER leave the nest.

jumanji's picture

Actually, in "early times", children and women were chattel. Men could send the little woman on the way, keep the kids, and find a new mom. It had less to do with financial stability and everything to do with a patriarchal society.

onthefence2's picture

I want to start off by saying the family court system sucks.

BUT.

The reason courts make it hard for men to get/retain custody is because in MOST cases, the mom/woman was the one who took care of the child, handled things in school, drove the child places, etc. while the man worked. Women are typically the more nurturing ones who have a closer bond with the child. Obviously not always, but typically. When a mom is moving away, asking to retain 50/50 custody is NOT the best move. Because that would be torture on a child and only benefit the parent who is staying. It makes life easier for dad, who won't have to miss the child, but it's not in the child's best interest USUALLY. IMO, you would have done better to request physical custody because THAT provides stability for the child. But then you would have to support that with information showing Dad was the caretaker/nurturer more so than Mom. (Still not guaranteed, but you have a better chance. Unless Dad was not the primary caretaker and was just a place to go 50% of the time). The way it looks to me, Dad was looking out for himself, and not thinking about the child traveling back and forth. Also, I've read studies showing that shared custody often is not in the child's best interest because they don't have a "home" but rather have two houses they shuttle back and forth between. There are no easy answers. Divorce is never fair to the child, and I think we focus too much on how it affects parents.

SAHsigh's picture

I get where you're coming from but today may not be the best day to say things like this. What you've written above isn't the case with us and I think saying that our home was "a place to go 50% of the time" is cruel. We did, actually, file for primary custody with BM's request to relocate but we noted that the best thing for the children is that they have both of their parents equally. I've seen those same studies and I also know my SKs, my partner, and their BM better than you or those studies.

"Dad was looking out for himself and not thinking about the child traveling back and forth." We aren't/weren't looking to "torture" the children with 50/50 custody and transportation. I get the impression that you've been burned by something before my post but don't take it out on me -- especially today. Find someone else to pick on.

onthefence2's picture

Most of what I wrote was regarding the replies above, not to you. And I've not been burned. Someone is almost always burned in court. I was not. I have one of those $hitty bio-dads.

thinkthrice's picture

@on the fence2

"In early times, the children were awarded to the parent that was best able to FINANCIALLY take care of the children--99% of the time, that was biodad. Seems to have been a much more sensible situation. Nuturing is overrated IMHO--by the time the child is a toddler, the nuturing phase should be morphed into the training-to-be-an-independent-and-responsible-adult-and-progressing-toward-leaving-the-nest-phase."

onthefence2's picture

When were these "early times"? It didn't last long. Where is that quote from? Nurturing is overrated? Omg... I hope we have a different definition of nurturing.

SanAntonioSoccerMom's picture

Huh?? Biodads have NEVER been favored as custodial parents in family court...even when they are the better parent.

IAMGOOD's picture

I am so sorry to hear this. I have to agree with all the people that said don't fight it. I don't understand why moving out of state is ok.

The courts SUCK!

Orange County Ca's picture

What a bastard the judge is. How can anyone say that a parent can just haul kids away from another parent.

BUT does Daddy really have any other choice but to follow? Rent your current house out, you rent a bachelor apartment until school is done as does he in the new town. When the move to him after school buy another house and continue to rent out the old one.

Daddy really has no choice and I hope he moves next door to his ex.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Before you maje any decisions on moving, your husband needs to be aware there is nothing to stop BM moving again, you cannot keep uprooting your lives every time she wants to move.

Give this time for the shock to,wear off before making any decisions.

BM may decide she doesn't like the new place, she may find 70/30 custody hard on her, the kids might hate the new place and find it difficult to settle. There are lots of reasons it mightn't work out for her. So give yourselves time.

I'm sorry your husband is so upset over this. Very sorry.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Before you maje any decisions on moving, your husband needs to be aware there is nothing to stop BM moving again, you cannot keep uprooting your lives every time she wants to move.

Give this time for the shock to,wear off before making any decisions.

BM may decide she doesn't like the new place, she may find 70/30 custody hard on her, the kids might hate the new place and find it difficult to settle. There are lots of reasons it mightn't work out for her. So give yourselves time.

I'm sorry your husband is so upset over this. Very sorry.

SAHsigh's picture

The last day and a half have been really hard for me and my partner. He's finally stopped sobbing at anything around the house related to the kids and I'm not constantly doing the same. We are both extremely involved in the kids' lives: school, family, activities, doctors, *everything*. I have a wonderful relationship with my SKs and, to a great extent, I have my partner to thank for that. We are both feeling very down about this.

To the previous posts about what's "best" for the children: I (We) think that 50/50 custody is the best situation for children of divorce. We care for the children equally. They have two loving and nurturing homes. With few exceptions (and those were always doozies!), all of the (step)parents got along together and were *always* focused on the best interests of the children. Cell phones, Skype, FaceTime -- these are not substitutes for physically being with the children, especially when they're only five! We may have to just agree to disagree here but having a child means focusing on what's best for them and keeping both parents (so long as that relationship is healthy) is/should be of the utmost importance -- even if it means living in an area one would rather move from before their adults. I get that circumstances can change, but ours wasn't like that. BM isn't financially ruined; she wants a way out of this custody arrangement.

Not unlike most of us, we've not had it easy, either. BM has often made our lives unnecessarily difficult and not even for reasons related to co-parenting between she and my partner. She's rarely left a good impression on anyone and we're always worried about the influence she has on SS/SD5. She got an offer for a job that not only offered her the chance to move away from my partner (with the kids) but also pay off her student loans; the tuition benefit for SKs was the sugar she needed for court to give the move the go ahead. We don't make BM's money. We can't compete financially with someone who makes nearly twice what we do and, literally, buys love.

It's sad. We wanted better for the kids. And, somewhat selfishly, for us, too. I hope they do okay with her. They always come back from her place in a foul mood... I miss them already.

Cocoa's picture

honey, divorce is about loss. and it sucks, but it seems the kids just keep losing because you cannot ever control the other parent. this is why its sooo important to THINK before one has kids and be selective in who they have kids with. you have the initial shock of divorce, come to terms with it, then decide to re-marry. once you re-marry, it's NO LONGER all about the kids. there's another family to think about. it sounds like you and your dh's lives revolve around skids? maybe it's time the two of you concentrate on your marriage. your dh even said something about things not being the same without the kids, which hurt you. you even had to point it out to him that YOU are still there. i really think he needs therapy and the two of you need marriage counseling. if you start chasing bm now, when in the world will it end?