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Still pissed about this weekend

Jcksjj's picture

So SD and ODS are close in age and go to the same school and are in the same grade (different classrooms luckily). My son absolutely loves SD (dont ask me why) and desperately wants her to be friends with him. Shes been a bully to him pretty much such since they have known each other when they were 4 and 5. Started with things like whispering that she hated him umprovoked as soon as I'd leave the room, throwing his toys out the window while he watched and cried etc. Theres been a few physical things here and there (again unprovoked) shoving, hitting, kicking, etc. Those things have mostly stopped now since we started catching it happening more and its turned more to social agression, trying to get other kids to not like him etc. Most of this time hes been a doormat and just tried even harder to get her to like him. Of course DH was embarrassed and somewhat concerned about her behavior but not overly. But now over the last couple months DS has finally started standing up for himself and fighting back some (2x now) and NOW DH is super concerned. SD was screaming and bawling and crying victim about both fights that she started because she didnt just get her way. And DH is just dying that little princess is unhappy and now hes super concerned. He even will say he knows it's her fault but he just can't the kicked puppy look off his face and of course wants to get involved and do something just because shes crying. DS apparently sat on her when she was sitting on his beanbag chair because she started throwing a fit that she was losing the game they were playing and told him she wont ever be his friend again. And she "accidentally" slapped him. We couldn't get the whole story out of them at first so just separated them and told them they had to have quiet time for awhile. DH comes downstairs and goes well arent you concerned that he was physically attacking her? 

Uh are you kidding me? Of course I am, and I'm not at all okay with it under any circumstances. He needs to learn to walk away from it and its something we are working on. But for DH to come at ME after all the crap hes just let slide and only care now when his kid is being retaliated on? Infuriating. She does that crap ar school all the time too, she will cry about some kid pushed her off her chair or said something mean or blah blah. And every. Single. Time. When the whole story comes out it starts with her passively aggressively provoking the other kid and then running and crying to the teacher when they do something back. And of course in DHs eyes the big concern is always the other kid. No, your kid is a passive aggressive bully and you're enabling it. Even if he tries to hide it it's all over his face. Anytime she cries about anything no matter how fake he looks like a kicked puppy and hes about to cry. And DH should know better because he was in DS position with BM. The exact same behaviors (obviously in more adult situations but still). She would do something sneaky or underhanded and then instantly bawl and make up things about why she was the victim if he called her out on it. Talked to him like he was stupid and constantly nitpicking and laughing at him if he made a mistake etc. Like a child basically. I've pointed that out and he says he knows but nope as soon as SD is pouting hes panicking.


futurobrillante99's picture

You're spot on. I would let your husband know that the fierce papa bear reaction he's having is the EXACT reaction you've been having everytime his little monster was bullying YOUR son.

Jcksjj's picture

Yeah I dont think I flat out pointed that out to him. Honestly though, theres been a couple times when I've seen things be more his fault (not with SD but with other kids and it was stupid arguments not even bullying or being aggressive) and it makes uncomfortable to see but I didnt blame the other kid and had no problem telling him hey that wasnt okay. So I really dont get his reaction other than being in denial and refusing to accept that she is normally the aggressor. I mean I've seen perfectly sweet friendly kids in her class come up to her after school and try to say hi or talk and she just sticks her nose up in the air and talks to them like they're dirt and not even worth looking at. And the kid will just be sitting there confused and then walk away.

SteppedOut's picture

How old are the kids and how long has sd been treating your son so poorly? Are there consequences?

This would be troubling to me... "home" is supposed to be where kids feel safe and loved not picked on and on edge. I wouldn't want that to go on for too long. And good on your son for standing up for himself. Even if she "is a girl", she slapped him.

Jcksjj's picture

They're both in second grade - DS is 8.5 and shes is almost 8. It's been going on in some form or another since they've known each other- so about 3.5 years. I didnt know alot of it was happening since she was very covert about it and my DS had hearing issues/ speech delay when he was younger and wasnt able to tell me at first and even now sometimes it's hard to get the clear story about what happened. and then over time I started catching her at it more and more. I went way out of my way to catch her last summer, and that put a stop to alot of it but if they are actually interacting for awhile it still ends up in a fight most of the time now. There are consequences but I dont feel shes actually learning anything but to try new manipulation tactics. Our efforts to teach empathy have definitely failed other than her saying the "right" thing to our faces and trying even harder to be sneaky. 

I just want them to stay separated as much as possible and I want him to learn to stay away from her (and crap people in general) but it's hard because DH still hasn't given up on the one big happy family thing and wants to encourage closeness (he hardly ever witnesses the fighting himself since usually when hes around all of a sudden shes the perfect child, but she can't keep it up when were all together all day like she can when she only sees him for a couple hours after work). Also we don't have any other kids around very often for him to play with in our neighborhood so he cant just go outside and play with someone else when he is lonely so hes always super excited for her to come to our house despite the meanness since she will start to be nice to him off and on. Shes way more socially advanced then him and he just doesnt get why shes randomly nice and the  mean out of nowhere. They also share a bedroom but thankfully they will be in separate rooms shortly since we are moving.

SayNoSkidsChitChat's picture

The only way you can protect your son from the demon spawn is to leave her and her idiot father.

Your son is vulnerable! He can’t communicate well enough to report her abusing him!

SteppedOut's picture

Nothing changes if nothing changes. 

If sd just finds new manipulations and lacks empathy there is no changing her behavior.

The only thing that can be changed is you allowing them to be in the same place. Do you really think that you will be able to keep them in separate rooms? Or that you will be able to be around EVERY interaction they have in the home? 

Ispofacto's picture

I think it is normal for siblings to fight, even get physical with each other.

DS is getting to an age where he should start losing interest in playing with SD.  Maybe once you move he can make some new friends.  It might help to get him involved with a sport.

Based on your other posts, your SD is a jerk but some kids are like that, even in first families.  In my experience, jerks don't change for the better, they just learn to be better manipulators.  It seems like humans are a lot like dogs.  The alpha dog is the aloof one all the other dogs try to win over.  You may need to coach DS to stay away from her.  Open his eyes to the pattern.


Jcksjj's picture

I agree it is normal to an extent. But the thing is, they dont have a loving relationship underlying that that other siblings do. Like I see my nieces fight over stupid things but then I see them also acting caring and protective toward each other. Theres none of that with SD. It's been her being cruel intentionally since he was basically a stranger. Also, I'm concerned about what the fake victim cries will be about when she gets older since shes a girl and hes a boy and I know BMs history of false allegations towards all of her exes (some of which she laughed about). I have exactly the same outlook you do. I highly doubt shes going to grow out of it, and for all the work we've done to try to teach her empathy all that has happened is her learning to say the right thing to our faces. It annoys me when people say that she will learn eventually as if there arent crappy adults and everyone magically becomes kind when they hit 18.

MIL also complicates things because she hates having "outsiders" around and would love nothing more than for all of her kids to be divorced and have just her kids and bio grandkids around. So if theres ever hint that DS did anything wrong even in retaliation it's going to be a huge drama that I really dont want to deal with. Even when DH tried to talk to her a long time ago for advice on SD misbehaving she just kept insisting it had to be DS fault and acted like she had to protect her from him when he didnt do anything but sit there and take it. Basically the fact that they arent bio siblings creates way more conflict as a whole and i dont want to have my entire family ruined over it, but I can see it happening and my mom has also expressed concerns about it ruining my marriage.

I totally agree that the best thing is for him to learn to stay away from her. I'm hoping that will be the positive outcome from this, that he learns early about toxic people and to stay away from them - something I definitely learned too late. And I hope you're right that he will lose interest in playing with her soon. He already seems to be BUT I've realized recently that her coming and going each week is a huge trigger for him with his abandonment issues from biodad just not showing up for visitation one day and never seeing him since. Hes in counseling for that so hopefully that will help also.

Yeah I agree about the alpha dog thing. What's really weird though is shes not the alpha at all. Shes not a leader and other kids in her class have generally ended up hating her and avoid her like the plague. She completely acts like the stereotypical popular mean girl but shes not and actually seems to have struggled alot with maintaining friendships at all. I dont get it. 

Ispofacto's picture

Your SD has some Callous Unemotional traits that you probably find quite creepy, and rightfully so.

Killjoy15 is the same way and she actually harmed my GD8 a few years ago.  Now she is not allowed to see her.  The option of banning her from our household was discussed, but we decided the best we can hope for is that she won't become a burden on society, which she would be if she went to live with BM.  Luckily, my kids are all grown up, productive citizens, so they are not in any danger from Killjoy.

Be careful of your littles.

Does your SD have reading comprehension problems?  Mine does.  It is actually a method experts use to test for sociopathic tendencies in children.



Jcksjj's picture

Shes actually slightly ahead of grade level now in reading even though it took awhile for her to get it. She is better at the technical part of reading then the comprehension but shes not behind with it. She struggles alot with math and is very slow moving in general. Like it takes her an hour to eat supper and shes always the last one off the playground, etc. Her teachers have said that an issue since she was in preschool. It seems to take her awhile to "get" concepts soemtimes but once she does she can catch up. 

I watched a Ted talks about kids with callous/unemotional traits once and it was 100% her. I'm guessing you've read my other posts relating to that if you're commenting on that so I wont go into detail, but one thing I thought was interesting was that the researchers found that those kids tended to actually change their environments to suit them instead of their parents changing them - when they took the kids and placed them temporarily with "good" parents they found that the parents actually started to change how they responded to them compared to other kids. Which I've found DH and myself both doing over time. Sadly, it didnt look like there is much that they know can be done about it at this time.

I pretty much told DH the same thing - if she is at least self sufficient as an adult that's probably a success story. I think she has a self preservation to not end up in jail or anything like that unless she overestimates how much she can get away with at some point. I'm assuming she will be the same as BM and do the absolute bare minimum to get by while manipulating material things out of others as much as possible and making anyone's lives that she is close to a living hell. All I can say is we arent supporting her financially as an adult beyond anything typical. I don't think we will necessarily need to though, people like that always find someone to take advantage of. 

One thing she does have for sure is the sociopathic eyes. Even DH has commented on that. Like Charles Manson expression.