OT - lost a good friend today
So today one of my best friends was talking about the #metoo movement and how she will always believe women no matter what. I strongly disagreed with that and gave several examples why. And she just kept pushing with how all men are capable of rape and there's more shitty men than women. And then telling me that I'm invalidating her experiences by not agreeing with her. All the while telling me that my personal experiences and examples are exceptions and "I just need to educate myself." When I told her I have when I went to the local rape and abuse crisis center for my own experience her response was "doesn't seem like it."
Somewhat on topic - she was like this when I discussed stuff about SD with her too. She had shitty experiences as a skid with her moms boyfriend and was abused so she kept insisting SDs behavior must be the result of abuse, despite there being zero evidence for that.
But sorry - although I agree with the metoo movement overall I don't agree with just automatically believing women. I definitely believe they should be heard and not automatically shutdown as not true. I don't think it's okay to demonize men because some are shitty and I don't think it's okay for people to insist men are just animals with no self control unless we force them to have it. I don't think its okay that people threatened to shoot my son as an infant if he ever showed interest in their daughters. Or to have MIL act like my son was a rapist for sitting on SDs bed to try to join a Skype call between MIL and SD at 6 years old.
Oh and then also, when I said that I think there's an equal number of shitty men and women she told me that "there's more shitty men" and that in her experience men are selfish, racist and awful. And then told me to quit making it about other things and not to make it about my sons.
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I'm not saying either of you
I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong, but personally I would weigh what the friendship means to me versus what it means to have to alter my own ethics and values to suit a friend so they will like me.
Idk which one of us thats
Idk which one of us thats aimed at, but I know I can't be friends with someone who apparently believes men are inherently bad and women are superior.
It's not really aimed at
It's not really aimed at either of you, you obviously both have your very different opinions and if you feel yours is strong enough to support ending a friendship, then you should do so.
Well she apparently felt that
Well she apparently felt that way since she blocked me on messenger. And I guess I do too.
Your friend misrepresents me too
If she insists it is only about believing women. It is so much more than that. Me too supports ALL victims of sexual violence. Women like your friend harm the movement more than help it.
Well she's an expert on it
Well she's an expert on it supposedly and I know nothing so.
I was gonna throw that in and didn't get a chance to though- little boys being molested is not uncommon. But in her mind if women do something wrong it's because of damage in their past from men and men are I guess inherently bad.
And she took it way beyond that to men are shitty in general. Idk what that has to do with metoo.
I do believe that most women who report rape or sexual assault are telling the truth. And a lot don't ever report it either. I also think some women will stretch the truth about it.
I don't agree with either of
I don't agree with either of you, honestly. I think both sides of this debate, when extreme, are violent. 'Not all men' is harmful not only to women, but to men as well. Blindly agreeing with all women no matter what is harmful not only to falsely accused men, but also to women who've actually been abused, most especially women who were abused & not believed.
Any human being that threatens a child with a gun, even as a 'joke' for looking at their daughters is sick. That's not love, it’s control, and it needs to stop. 'Not all men' also needs to stop. Men need to understand that any man can be considered a threat to a woman he doesn't know because we don't know whether he's a threat or not & we still live in a society where the onus to not be attacked falls on the woman, instead of men being taught to not only control themselves but also to call out their buddies for behaving inappropriately towards women.
It’s a complicated topic, and if I had to choose a side I think needs to step up & do a better job at ensuring we ALL feel safe, I’d say it’s the men who need to do that. Yes, we all need to behave appropriately & yes I think women who abuse men should be held accountable for that to the highest degree (no abuse is acceptable or ok), but the reality is we live in a patriarchy and the bar is far lower for men than it is for women, and that needs to change.
I agree with you, but I don't
I agree with you, but I don't really get how my side was extreme? I dont believe all men are rapists underneath that are just holding themselves back (which is what she said). I do believe that the cultural shift where it was just laughed about and swept under the rug when men are inappropriate needed/needs to change. I do believe the majority of women who report assault are telling the truth. I just think that believing women no matter and demonizing men isn't okay. She flat out said that all men are capable of rape and more men than women are bad people. I definitely don't agree with that.
The ironic thing about this whole convo is I tried to share some of my own experiences in this topic on both sides and she told me I didn't know what I was talking about and then told me that I was dismissing HER experiences.
Oh, and on the dad that threatened my son - guess who abandoned their kid by the time she was a year old?
I think your comment about
I think your comment about there being equal numbers of shitty men & women lead me to believe you are on a more male sympathizing side, and I apologize for that assumption. There are a lot of women on the 'not all men' side of things & while I don't think we need to demonize men, I do believe that all men (and boys who will be men someday) need to be held to a higher standard. We shouldn't need to teach women to carry car keys between their fingers to escape a potential attack etc.
Your friend's stance is more harmful than she realizes, and her dismissal of your experiences in itself is reason enough to end the friendship imo.
Overall I was getting kind of
Overall I was getting kind of tired of her know it all attitude on everything. I was almost ready to tell her off for projecting her experiences with her stepdads onto my experiences with SD so much and held back. But this one was too much I guess. I dont believe in judging anyone based on being part of a group they didn't choose to be a part of.
YouTube that song “let’s generalize about men”
It's pretty funny and true.
I dropped a long term friendship a couple of years ago over something sorta similar. I work in the utility industry. I get the power back on. I work hand in hand with the linemen. I trained long and hard and have a degree.
So during hurricane season a hurricane knocked out a lot of power in the state and my friend was one of them. I guess she thought all those news reports were bogus and she didn't have to take any precautions cause she was on social media constantly complaining within just hours of the hurricane hitting that her power wasn't back on yet and what were those lazy linemen doing .
I tried to educate her on how power restoration was done and she just said I was taking things too personally and I dropped her like a hot potato. I am not sorry . (Btw for the long term readers this was the same "friend" who I moved into my house when she was down on hard times and she ended up having an exmarital affair with my cop friend neighborhor who had a pregnant wife and then she as the mistress was also pregnant by him.) her values and morals don't align with mine. She has a sh!tty character. I knew it then and kept hoping she would change but this argument just highlighted it. We are not the same. We can't agree to disagree. Call my linemen lazy while they are sleeping in their trucks working 18 hour days in the heat and dark and wind trying to help people? Hell no. Bye felicia. I haven't missed anything about that "friendship" either.
Haha, I'd be lying if I never
Haha, I'd be lying if I never made any generalized complaints about men. Like not being detail oriented. But I definitely don't believe they're all monsters and capable of being rapists.
There are friends that you
There are friends that you can talk to about anything and the friendship will be fine and even grow. This is not one of them. She sounds very cross and wants you to go along with her. Just be you...and if she wants you to be something else well that is not a true friendship. You can have different beliefs and still be good friends. I don't think she is capable of that.
It sounds to me like she has
It sounds to me like she has a lot of issues to work through that are getting in the way of her ability to have relationships.
For someone who supposedly supports women so much she sure hasn't been able to maintain female friendships. I was on some level expecting this because since I've known her - which is about 5 years- she's broken off friendships with everyone who was in her wedding party except one person who she isn't that close to. 6 people that I can think of.
That is odd that she
That is odd that she struggles so much getting along with other women.
Your ex friend sounds like a
Your ex friend sounds like a pseudo "woke" self absorbed twat. IMO, misandry is just as wrong as misogyny. And if you doubt it exists, just ask a SM. Like the Farmers Insurance commercial, we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two.
Life is too short for these ignorant, blank & white thinking cancel culture types.
Spoken like a true Gen Xer.
Spoken like a true Gen Xer.
It definitely doesn't add up
It definitely doesn't add up for me because she is super "woke" and so it kind of goes against everything she stands for as far as not demonizing a group of people based on the actions of a some.
I would figure out whether you can
be friends with someone with such fundamental differences. If your answer is yes you can, then I would suggest you both just stay away from such topics that you feel so vastly different about.
Also, no offense, but your friend is totally naive if she is just going to believe every woman who says they have been raped. If that is the case then she would buy BM's story of while my husband was deployed overseas someone broke into my house and raped me, but I never reported it and was so embarassed about it, BUT then I chose to have the rapist who I don't know's child and pass it off as my husband's for 3 years until he serves me with divorce papers THEN I am gonig to tell him I was raped and was scared that he wouldn't want me or the child and hope he believes me.
There are plenty of women who do get raped and I feel extremely sorry for those who do, especially when there are women like BM who lie about it to justify things or really just lie about it in general. THOSE women are taking away from the victims of rape and it is disgusting.
Oh she took it way beyond
Oh she took it way beyond just rape to sexual harassment in any form always being the truth from the women's pov. Women never exaggerate their accounts of men hitting on them and men always approach women wrong and if they read confusing signals incorrectly when women flirt its 100% on the men I guess.
My experience personally has been that there are men who take no as a challenge, but the vast majority of men either accept the no or don't even approach me in the first place. So again, I can't agree with the all men are pigs thing.
She has mentioned previously several times that she's on a feminist anti man streak lately and I guess I kind of dismissed it but I guess she was serious.