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Countdown 10 days....will BM give in?

iamlosingit's picture

I doubt it.

BM "summer trip" launches on the 21st.  STILL no itinerary or location given.  She has already violated the CO by not giving 30 days notice and details. 

DH is prepared to get the police involved. 
The 21st is his CO visitation weekend, the time-frame for this trip will mean DH will miss one full weekend and three partial days of his visitation time.  BM has SS for the 4th of July holiday which is the 3-7th, allowing her to plan an extended trip.  He has nothing against SS going on this "trip" but told BM that the agreement was conditional on her giving him the CO required information.  So far all we know is she's told SS it's not in California, and when DH tried to carefully ask for details (not interrogating, just a general "so do you know where you are going?") SS played the "I don't know" card and looked uncomfortable so DH immediately stopped.  BM has trained SS well.

We were told that all DH can do is notify the police that he is supposed to have visitation that day and that he thinks BM has left.  The police will go to the house with him as a witness to make sure the pick up isn't possible, and it will get documented.  Unsure what follows after documentation.  He wanted to try and stop her from boarding with SS at the airport but isn't sure if that is possible.

Unfortunately in our state since she is the custodial parent she has up to 7 days to return with SS, and if she does return the punishment of a $4000 fine + potential jail time of 2 weeks and a felony charge is debatable.  Funny, because for the NCP the duration is only 48 hours to return.  The CO states that remedies and penalties for wrongful denial of parenting time is punishable by compensatory parenting time, civil penalties, bond requirements, contempt, and reversal of custody.

DH has text message proof of them discussing the dates and requests for the details needed (no response given), as well as DH quoting paragraphs in the CO to BM for reference.  Hopefully this helps him but she still isn't budging on giving him details.

I know this is purely a power-play on BM part (not sharing details), since day one she has repeatedly told DH that the CO "doesn't apply to her because she is the mother".

It's frustrating in general to be dealing with this again.  It's not like DH wants the details to go "surprise them", he just wants to know where his kid is going to be for two weeks, maybe get a quick phone call in on one of the days he is missing out on due to the trip.

After reading about some of the stipulations that other people have in their CO, I wish DH would have been better prepared and made some adjustments.

Unlike DH I personally don't think she's "fleeing"....she just likes control.  She went on two vacations before without telling DH but she did come back.  She likes her CS too much to flee. 

We'll see what happens.


Edited to add: he has text message proof of himself asking her for the dates (BM did provide) and asking for the details per the CO (no response)



MommyT's picture

If DH is really concerned then why doesn’t he file for an emergency hearing and show the judge everything he has? She can’t just not follow the order because she likes control. 

twoviewpoints's picture

And just what would this emergency hearing request state? BM hasn't done anything yet. Being afraid she might is not an emergency. She must actually take some action before anything could be done. 

MommyT's picture

She already broke the co by not giving the info 30 days in advance. Request that she be put in contempt of court for not following the order. 

twoviewpoints's picture

That is not a qualifier for an emergency hearing.

Did you also read where Dad put in wrong date on his last 30 dy request and then asked BM to allow change last second.

This kind of game crap is not what emergency hearings are for. 

And a simple contempt would not get a hearing before June 21st. 

iamlosingit's picture

When DH messed up his dates (I think it was a camping trip) we were not going out of state, also it was just a request to swap weekends with BM, neither one of them lost any overall time with SS.  She is leaving the state for sure she just won't tell him where.  Also we are talking DH missing out on 6 visitation days, if it was just one I don't think it would be as big of a deal.   Out of state on the CO definitely states 30 days notice is required and itinerary/dates/etc.  DH is scared that BM is trying to flee with SS, which might call for an emergency hearing, but in my opinion without concrete proof and not just a "feeling" I highly doubt the courts will waste time on it.  I also don't think she is leaving for good either but I'm not DH.  Maybe that's always in the back of your mind when you don't have sole physical custody?

tog redux's picture

We spent 50K trying to do contempt on this kind of stuff. BM always got away with it. 

The truth is that Family Court has no teeth. And one parent dragging the other into court for something as minor as this (yes, it's minor) just to show the other that they don't have control, is not considered an emergency.  And it makes the dragging parent (DH) look high conflict. 

It's simply not worth it to engage in these battles with a GUBM.

lieutenant_dad's picture

So is DH going to file for full custody? What is he hoping to do to BM with this? Just stick it to her?

It's a power play on both parts. She may be starting it, but unless your DH is going to go full-on to end it, then he's just being a d**k in retaliation. It's a bit like telling the teacher that your project partner isn't putting in their share of the work, but not being willing to put in the extra effort to make sure you get an A yourself.

Just remember that you're going to be the one to deal with the fallout and whatever crazy BS that your DH decides to do to soothe his ego.

MommyT's picture

I was thinking the same thing. If you aren’t going to do anything about it then why even call the police? It sounds like DH think BM is actually going to keep the kid, which is why it is better for him to prevent ss from going by talking to a judge.

tog redux's picture

I totally agree with this, OP, and believe me - I have been there.  If I could go back and if I could control DH's actions, I would have not let him do some of this kind of stuff.  He too would stand up to BM in this manner and all it did was make SS miserable and feed BM's power and control games. 

BM here was a master at going over the CO and finding tiny loopholes that she could exploit. She interfered with every kind of vacation we ever had.  Once she took him out of the country on her own vacation and claimed she couldn't get back in because she tried to renew his passport (it was their home country) but found that she couldn't do so without DH's signature (she knew this because she had asked for DH's signature before she left and he had apparently signed in the wrong place).  DH wanted her to agree to meet him at the border so he could get SS for our vacation with him, and it turned into a giant power struggle involving lawyers and guess who won? BM.  We did not get vacation with SS that year.

Looking back, and from a place of much less struggle, I can see that this was all feeding right into what BM wanted - to have control over DH and to see him get angry and fight with her. It was her way of keeping their relationship going, and keeping her abusive control over him, and he fell right into it.

If DH wants to do anything, just file a petition saying she violated the CO.  Leave the police and SS out of it. Don't try to stop her from getting on the plane or make her come back, or threaten her with fines and jail time.  That stuff puts your skid right in the middle of crappy family drama. 

Nowadays, BM still goes over the child support order with a microscope and tries to find loopholes to make DH pay more and she gets nothing but crickets in response.  I wish he had done that years ago.

ESMOD's picture

I agree.. I thought that I also read that her DH is actually not opposed to the vacation.. just wants her to follow the CO.

and.. yeah.. I understand that she "should".. but if the end result would be that he would allow the kid to go.. just let him go.  document (probably don't need the police for that).. that he missed custody time.. then work on getting compensating time.. or at the very least he has that instance documented in his pocket for the next custody hearing situation.


tog redux's picture

BM here actually told SS that she felt DH was "trying to control her" by making her follow the CO. The issues go deep with this type of BM and they will win these power struggles at all costs, including by alienating their kids.  It's not worth it, no matter how tempting it is, and how hard it is to swallow the injustice of it all. 

iamlosingit's picture

to have the police just join DH for documentation vs one of DH relatives.  A cop and a report look more official if this is brought up in court at any point vs MIL who could be "biased".  I also don't like the feeling of "wasting a cops time" but I think this is something they have probably seen before.  Now the airport thing I think is a bit overboard on DH part but that''s just my opinion.  He is also worried due to recent events that she is trying to escape with SS, hence DH paranoia.

iamlosingit's picture

No...he's not trying to take SS away from BM at all and this has nothing to do with ego.  He just wants BM to follow the CO for 30 day notice, no location or itinerary, unpaid clinic bills, not allowing DH to talk to SS on the house phone (CO states calls are allowed 'within reason' but BM just won't answer period or let SS call him), not including DH in decision making when both parents should be involved, the list goes on.  He's sick and tired of her not following the CO unless it suits her.  He wants to co-parent with her.  He's given her every single address of every campground we've ever been to when she asks; technically he's not required to if he's not leaving the state and it's on his normal visitation.  She wants to just leave the state and not tell him anything except the dates, she picks and chooses what parts of the order she will and will not follow and it's unnecessary. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

Your DH can want to co-parent all day long, but if she doesn't want to and won't, it doesn't matter that it's what he wants. My point is that unless he is going to ask for a custody switch based on her behavior, then he's not really doing anything other than racking up court fees (that you'll be stuck subsidizing) and patting himself on thr back for "trying" (which he'll post about or talk to people about who will stroke his ego and tell him what a "great" father he is).

Your DH isn't going to ever get what he wants unless BM is willing to give it. Anything he does that doesn't involve a flip in custody is futile and a waste of time and resources. Having a cop write that SS wasn't made available will carry as much weight in a contempt hearing as your DH's word.

It's like going scorched earth while water the ground first. It's not going to do much.

hereiam's picture

Does your husband actually think that BM would take off with SS and not come back? Because unless that is a REAL possibility, stopping them from getting on the plane is just ridiculous. Wasn't he paranoid about something similar last year? Does he have any basis for these fears?

I agree with those above about it being power plays on both parts. BM loves doing this and your H plays right into it. I know it sucks to let her think she can get away with not adhering to the CO but sometimes letting some things ride is the only way to take the wind out of BM's sails.

BM over here loved to get DH riled up, just to prove that she could. He eventually took all of the fun out of it for her.

iamlosingit's picture

He does think this.  I'm not going to go into the winded details but yes, there is a very strong reason this is a possibility at the moment.  Also the length of time she is requesting for this vacation is suspicious, before DH brought up the holiday schedule she was originally requesting two weeks back to back which the CO does not allow.  The only reason DH agreed in the first place is BM has SS from 7/3-7/7 (holiday schedule e/o yr)  so DH wouldn't be missing that much time if she included those dates in her vacation.

twoviewpoints's picture

In most orders, summer vacation allowance trumps regular year round schedule. Meaning that weekend that is usually Dad's normal weekend visitation is void. Same with holidays. 

You also mention Dh has some back and forth communication already about dates of BM's desired vacation... so I'm not sure those would do DH any good in trying to prove BM has let him know zip in whatever timeline. 

I see you wrote previously wrote about kids at work day. DH had mistakenly given BM wrong date in his 30 day prior notice request. Yet when he realized , and within short notice, contacted BM to ask dates to be switched. 

Finally, I see you wrote SS looked uncomfortable when questioned about the trip with his BM. So are you seriously thinking of pulling a kid off a plane? WTF? 

Let the kid go. Let him enjoy and not feel uncomfortable about going on a vacation with his BM (as if he's doing something bad and/or wrong). 

iamlosingit's picture

They never went back to court to discuss any change in the visitation for summer, it was suggested in the CO but BM refused, so the schedule stays the same throughout the year.

Dates of vacation mean nothing when the CO states she must give addresses and itinerary (as well as 30 day notice).  DH gives her whatever info she requests when we aren't even leaving the state and he technically doesn't have to if it's on his time.  In her case, she does have to and is refusing. 

 Big difference in asking for an extra partial day to participate in "take your kid to work day" for 8 hrs and return him same day vs asking to take a child out of state for two weeks and cause the other parent to miss time.

The only question DH asked SS was where they were going and he asked nothing else and stopped immediately as soon as he saw SS was uncomfortable.

Yes DH is considering stopping them at the airport (doubt it's possible) because he thinks she is trying to relocate with SS.  There have been some strong hints that would lead any parent to believe it.  There is always the "what if" factor for any parent who is split, AMBER alerts constantly for moms/dads that just "took off" with the kids for whatever reason.  It sucks, but when the other parent is deliberately not giving you information and leaving the state I'd be scared too.