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Do you think it would make a change in women popping out babies?

Willow2010's picture

The other blog about CS got me to thinking. And I am bored so….This is my take on CS and how I think it should be handled.

I would say at MOST that CS should be no more than $400.00 per month for 2 kids. This could go up or down depending on where you live. I am going off of the high side of Texas figures here.

That is to help pay for food, clothing and shelter for 2 kids. No matter what the income is of either parent!!
The going rate for a decent apartment is $800.00 per month for a 1 bedroom. (The CP would be paying that anyway so the NCP does NOT need to supplement that.) Add two kids to the mix and you have to get a 3 bedroom. They run about $1200.00. That is a $400.00 difference. That should be split. $200.00 responsibility of the NCP and $200 from CP

Then food for 2 kids is probably about $300.00 per month. That is another $150.00 in CS.

Clothing should be about $80.00 per month for 2 kids. (40 per month per child equals $480.00 per year per child in just clothes) So NCP responsible for $40.00 and CP $40.00 per month.

Half of food=$150.00
Half of clothing = $40.00
Half of shelter = $200.00 That is a grand total in CS $390.00 for 2 kids. (CP responsible for the other $390.00 per month.) Would be cheaper if only one kid.
Then necessities would be split. Necessities!! Insurance, dental and medical bills. Daycare if needed.

Extras would be just that. EXTRA. Lets say the NCP wants the kid in piano lessons but the CP does not want to pay ½ for it. Then the NCP pays it all if they want it that bad.

I guarantee that if a law like this passed….women would stop popping out babies left and right because they know THEY will have to actually pay for half of raising that child.

OOOORRRR…50/50 becomes the norm at divorce and NO child support no matter what! That would also stop women from popping out money making babies.

Comments

sunshinex's picture

I say 50/50 with no child support. Than both parents are doing their part completely.

It's sick that some people have kids solely for money. I always thought that's what BM did. She got pregnant and left shortly after - wanting alimony and child support but NO custody because she "wasn't ready to be a mom" BM is really dumb and I think she genuinely thought if she popped a kid out, she'd get paid forever. She wasn't awarded anything because DH took full custody. She even wanted to keep the child tax benefits despite not wanting any custody! She said they were for her because "she gave birth" LOL

Personally, I didn't get pregnant until I knew I could afford the child 100% on my own if circumstances came to it. I know that won't happen, but it's nice to know the baby i'm carrying will be fine with or without DH lol

DaizyDuke's picture

I don't know??? You'd think that given the way CS works and has worked since the beginning of time with men being screwed by the courts, that men would have wisened up by now and been ultra vigilant about wrapping their shit up. But that does not seem to be the case. These whores can't pop out babies every 14 months or so without someone to fertilize their egg.

Willow2010's picture

You'd think that given the way CS works and has worked since the beginning of time with men being screwed by the courts, that men would have wisened up by now and been ultra vigilant about wrapping their shit up
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You would think it would be a no brainer huh?

secret's picture

My kids' father and I have 50/50 custody, no child support.

We did it ourselves, no lawyers, no courts. We wrote it in our separation agreement when we divorced... and were always good about following it. We've gone above and beyond... we've both had times, over the last 10 years, where we've been a little more up/down financially and have helped each other out...borrowing 100$ until payday...paid back...

we've always split the child tax benefits 50/50 as well.

Worked out for us, no issues.

Then again, neither of us are batsh!t crazy, entitled, or hateful towards each other....so....that might have a part to play here.

zerostepdrama's picture

Right!

zerostepdrama's picture

I would definitely say some women get pregnant to keep a man but a woman does not get pregnant because she thinks it will make her rich. Unless of course she gets pregnant by a rapper or basketball player. Then she got pregnant to get rich.

Peridwen's picture

I think it varies widely by area and a set amount like you stated would have to calculated for the individual areas. As an example $1200 per month rental gets you a house with a yard rather than an apartment in my neighborhood. A 3bd apartment is around $750 average.

My opinion is and always has been that the default should be 50/50 no CS, and the parent who wanted something different would bear the burden of proof.

A better way to stop women from popping out babies is education, IMHO. The effect of parenthood on income potential based on actual statistics of couple vs single, age when first child born, etc. Sex education that is more than a single day or week of health class so the actual biology of pregnancy and preventative birth control can be taught. Yes, it should be parents teaching this, but when you have women like the BM I deal with who flat out say "She'll learn about sex and menstruation at school" and refuse to actually teach. After her sex class, SD11 was convinced that her period would last a couple of hours. :?

Edit to add: The education is for boys AND girls, btw. One of my brother's friends in HS had to take a paternity test because he insisted that there was NO WAY he could be the father - he drank Mountain Dew every day and that made him sterile! My sons (including SS) are getting extensive and repeated wrap your tool talks when they get close to puberty and throughout HS.

zerostepdrama's picture

A rough and generic breakdown on average costs for my BS:

Health insurance- $25 per month (really have no idea but taking a guess)
Viola rental- $21 per month
Cell phone- $40 per month (Used at both parents house)
Hair cut- $10 per month

Soccer fee and equipment per year- $150

Wrestling fee and equipment per year- $1000 (minimum)

School supplies- $100 (accounting for needing stuff throughout the year and for projects)

Clothing, socks, underwear, shoes,etc. - $750 (for the whole year)

Birthday party gifts for friends- $100 per year

Medicines and incidentals- $100

Breakdown of per person and then by 1/2 for household bills (mortgage, basic utilities) and groceries - $225 per month

Rough estimate of $504 per month for the cost of raising my BS

Peridwen's picture

Wouldn't the viola, soccer, and wrestling all count under Extras that would be outside CS (going by Willow's OP)?

Actually, usually extracurricular activities are excluded from CS by most states aren't they? They are part of the cost of raising your BS, but wouldn't factor into CS.

zerostepdrama's picture

Not sure how it works in my state. Ex is court ordered to pay $350 a month (I think). But he doesn't pay. He owes me over 21k. So I'm guessing if I was receiving CS I would use those funds towards those things.

Peridwen's picture

Deadbeats drive me insane. I never realized how many worked in restaurants until my family owned one, either! I got to know the clerks at the local CSE really well as every month I was sending paperwork back and forth on employees who worked for three weeks and quit - usually the day the withholding orders arrived.

zerostepdrama's picture

Ex actually works in a restaurant (server/bartender) so his check will never cover his court ordered amount of CS and he is supposed to send the difference to CS directly then they will send to me.

There is a CS order so not sure why I don't get SOMETHING from his server/bartender pay checks. I remember when I was a server I got a check even if it was $25. I think the last time I got something it was $4 and that was in April.

I did inquire about it to CS last year but then they wanted to pursue it and I figured it would end up in court and I didn't want Ex to go to jail over it. It would do more harm then good. Thankfully I don't "need" it. (Though I do make sacrifices to make sure BS has what he needs)

Peridwen's picture

He might be making enough in tips to 0 out his checks. Very few of our servers or bartenders actually got checks of any kind if they cashed out their credit card tips at the end of the night. We had one server with a tax garnishment and because she didn't trust herself to pay it, she'd have us keep the tips and put them on her check. I suspect that's how your ex is avoiding the garnishment. There's nothing to garnish after the state/federal take their cut.

zerostepdrama's picture

Ah! Yeah I wondered what was going on because sometimes I would get something (not very much) and then it will be months before I get another payment.

secret's picture

494$ / month, actually...unless my rough math is wrong? 5932 total for the year? (assuming monthly expenses are year round)

One could argue that the viola rental, cell phone, soccer and wrestling fees, birthday party stuff aren't "necessities" (not me, just sayin')...dropping your yearly total by 1982 to 3950/year... making your total 329$/m

once could argue, also, (again, not me, just sayin') that the cell phone should be split by both parents... still making your monthly total 349$...

Your budget would fit in the scenario above... it's not that unreasonable of an amount, I think

zerostepdrama's picture

All of that is what I pay out of pocket for the basic stuff. Ex is ordered to pay $350 per month in CS but he doesn't pay.

secret's picture

so if he paid his 350$, it would actually only cost you 1$

}:)

It leaves 1732 (out of the initial 5932$ spent a year) unpaid for, when calculating the 350$ of child support you should be getting.

144.50$ per month for the "extras" isn't too bad...which would be your costs if your ex paid his 350$

I'd say it would still fit in the scenario described... but I just realized it says for TWO kids, not one.

secret's picture

lol, I know. I pay a lot of stuff for my kids over and above what their dad pays...for small extras I mean... we both take care of them when they're scheduled with us... but I make more than ex-h so I pay more, and don't bug him about it. It's for the kids.

A plus for us, too, though, is that since we split child tax benefits... he claims them, since he makes less..which means the payment is bigger... and we deposit that in an account for the kids...things like music or sports... whatever's left over will eventually go to their education etc...

Willow2010's picture

we deposit that in an account for the kids...things like music or sports... whatever's left over will eventually go to their education etc...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That is actually pretty great.

secret's picture

We've always thought so. We both have access to the account, so we have both dipped into it on occasion, with a head's up and agreement on the expense. Not to be used because buddyboy wants a new xbox... but can be used if buddyboy needs a new pair of football cleats...

zerostepdrama's picture

My BS is 12.

He doesn't get a haircut every month so I did an average of the cost per year and what that would be per month.

The big zipper folder- Yeah I just bought one for $17!

I was just guessing cost on medical insurance because it isn't that much extra for a dependent then what I would be paying anyways for myself.

I didn't include the cost of the day to day stuff of having him 90% of the time- all the things that he nickle and dimes out of me. Ha Ha. Or the gas to transport him to all of his sporting events, the costs for me to get into sporting events. Honestly that would probably be another $150 a month.

We do do lots of fun stuff- movies, trampoline place, vacations, museums, etc. so that is another cost.

Willow2010's picture

Man...the cost of living must be crazy where some of you live. Money does last longer in Texas. Smile

I personally know of 3 women who make a killing off of CS. They lucked out and got pregnant by men with really good jobs.

I would almost guarantee that none of them would have allowed themselves to get pregnant if they thought there were going to get $400.00 a month in CS, (different for different areas) or none if 50/50.

And I know it take TWO to get pregnant, but IMHO…a women has more of a vested interest in conception since the brunt of the result is mostly with her.

Sweet T's picture

At my former job my son's portion of the health insurance costs me 300.00 alone. My ex was covering 25.00 of that.

My summer day care is 725.00 a month, ex covers 150.00.

Not all of us are getting rich off of cs.

Willow2010's picture

Sweet...no where did I say that ALL BMs were getting rich off of CS.

I raised 2 kids on my own. Hardly ever ever got CS. Ex will never be out of arrears. And I would do it all over again because I wanted kids and I knew I could raise them if the ex was not around.

Sweet T's picture

I know you didn't but so many people feel like they are. I have been on both sides of the cs issue as a step and a bio. It sucks to have money go out of your house hold and then still have to have money for the kids when they are at your home. It sucks to be the one who shells out a ton of money to have your ex act like he is shelling out millions when the couple hundred you get doesn't come close to what you pay for daycare or health insurance.

At the end of the day my advice to all is believe in your self be you a man or a woman and make better choices with whom you have children with.

I love my son with all my heart but I wish I had not had a baby with my ex. My son got a father who isn't father material and I am stuck dealing with a loon for 18 years.

Willow2010's picture

At the end of the day my advice to all is believe in your self be you a man or a woman and make better choices with whom you have children with.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
THIS is my point. lol.

Not all, but some women would choose NOT to have kids if they thought they would only get $400.00 per month OR that they would only get their kid 50 percent of the time.

justkeepstepping's picture

$400 in CS for 2 kids would amount to a total of $400 a month from mom and dad to take care of a single kid.

It cost more than that and I don't live in a big city. I keep a record of every expense of DS's survivor's benefits. The bottom dollar number it cost's to take care of him per month was higher than that. That's not including a cell phone, school supplies, school lunch, insurance, or any hobbies or wants of his that aren't necessary. I kept track of every dollar spent for DS's well being for a solid year. The average monthly amount was $900. For ONE kid.

BM's child support for 2 kids is less than $400. I'm sure it'd help if we could get her to pay it, but it sure wouldn't cover half the expenses of the skids.

Maxwell09's picture

We have SS about 80% of the time during the school year and 50% of the time during the two months of Summer. If DH received child support-which he doesn't, I can't imagine it needing to be more than 200$ a month. Now if it were BM she would want about 400$ per month at 50/50. As of right now she is getting around 200$ unofficially from Babydaddy2 per month until she can afford to take him back to court.

sunshinex's picture

How old is your SS?

My stepdaughter is 5 and we have her about 80% of the time overall. She goes to her moms in the summer for a month or so and that's about it. I've always thought IF she paid child support (which she doesn't) around $200 a month would be sufficient as we really don't spend much time on her... but than I thought about the future lol and damn... it's going to get expensive as she starts getting into hobbies, class trips, outtings with friends, etc. Once they get older, they definitely get expensive!

Solidshadow7's picture

Regardless of how we are going to calculate what it costs to raise a kid (and it seems everyone has a different idea) the issue at hand is that the current system is in no way based on what a child costs to raise. Its based on the child having the same standard of living IN BOTH HOMES, not counting anyones income other than its two parents. Its based on this fantasy that the child should have the same life financially, it would have had if their parents had not split. The fact that there are now two households being supported
by the same amount of income makes this completely impossible and unrealistic, but the courts do not take this into consideration.
This antiquated concept of child support was developed in a world where men earned enough money on a single income to run the household. Women raised children and kept up the home. A divorced woman had sole custody of the children, and no way of supporting them or herself as her purpose in life was to marry and find a man to support her. (And doing this is way more difficult when she's 40 with 3 kids than when she was 20 with none) This resulted in a lot of women and children on government assistance. Child support laws were enacted to reduce the tax burden of supporting all of these single women and their children on welfare.
Currently child support is based on the assumption that the CP will continue to be a stay at home mom, with all living expenses for her and the children paid by her ex. Current child support payments are very similar to what people at that income level can expect to receive in social security if they were to become completely disabled. About $500 a month if they were extremely poor, and moving up from there based on what kind of income they had before they became disabled. And if you notice the difference in payments based on number of children are very small maybe an extra $100 or so, when if child support was designed to cover the childs needs, two children would cost twice as much as one.

So we have this really antiquated calculation system, combined with the fact that in the 80's there were a lot of high profile cases of very wealthy successful men leaving his wife for his much younger secretary, which results in her penniless with no place to live and with 3 children who the father has abandoned in tow and all of them starving with the burden falling upon the American taxpayer while dad was sipping pina coladas with his new playboy bunny wife on a tropical island somewhere. There were also some high profile cases of successful men quitting high paying jobs to work at mcdonalds and the like to avoid meaningful child support payments so he can brag that his ex wife got nothing. This resulted in almost unanimous support for tougher child support enforcement laws, which are now so tough we have large numbers of men that have been assessed child support at figures higher than their actual earnings, sitting in jail in a country where debtors prisons are illegal. These men were originally making every effort to pay, but for whatever reason missed a few payments so their license was suspended, which made coming up with the money even harder, and then lost their jobs completely when they went to prison for non payment. In one of the recent high profile cases of an unarmed black man being shot to death by police, the man initially decided to evade the officer because he'd already lost his job while in jail for non payment, and didn't want to go back to jail since with no job he clearly couldn't pay.
To make this even worse, I work for a financial services company. To work in my department you are required to hold certain financial licenses. Many of our employees work on commission. If you fall behind on child support payments, you are no longer eligible to hold the license that is required to perform your job. So a financial advisor has a child support payment based on his usual income which might be 100k a year who hits a rough patch for a few months and cant afford his CS payments, will probably lose his license forcing the company to fire him. And since he cant have the license anymore, there is really no other job he can get that will pay him even close to that kind of money with his work experience. But his payments will likely stay the same.

This system benefits nobody except for the women who have figured out that they don't need to work if they have children. This system works best to the benefit of complete nutcases, like my neighbors ex wife who was allowed to move his children to the other side of the country despite the fact that he was an involved father. She then proceeded to take him to court 97 times over the next 20 years for child support adjustments for children he never saw because she wouldn't let him. His new wife had to work herself and pay all the bills because between the attorneys fees the alimony and the CS, he worked 60 hours a week and had nothing left over for himself or the family that was actually in his life. All his money went to his spiteful ex who has never had to work, and two children he hadn't been allowed to see since they were in diapers. His kids are in their 30's now and the ex is still now trying to sue him for part of his social security and a pension from a job he got years after the divorce.

Whatever, sorry, just my rant. This whole thing is infuriating especially considering my personal situation.
My long time boyfriend and I hit a rough patch and saw other people for a while. A girl he was seeing knew he would rather be with me and was afraid he'd go back to me. Which he did, except she'd already sabotaged birth control. He stayed with her when he found out she was pregnant, and was completely miserable for a few years while trying to do the right thing, until she decided she didn't actually want him that badly and left him. We got back together.
Since then its been 20k in legal fees, most of his money goes to the attorneys the daycare or to the kids health insurance, and this is with 50/50 custody. Anything we do to save money will result in the whore modifying for more CS. To make matters worse we are originally from the other side of the country and came to the state we currently live in temporarily to see what it was like. Our families and friends are 1000 miles away and our parents are getting older and need help and we literally can't go home because we won't be able to afford to live there once his child support gets adjusted to him having only the summers. (Not to mention the whole having to find a job thing)
So im dating the same guy ive been with most of my life, except now everything is nothing but court battles and drama and bills no reasonable person can pay and CPS visits and welfare checks by police while the lunatic sits there and calls everybody she can over and over trying to keep the kid away from us because she can't bear the though of the girl whose boyfriend she stole being around child she created to keep him. All in the name of antiquated child support and custody laws that haven't been updated since long before women had the right to vote.

AJanie's picture

I think $400 per month is sufficient for most "average" families who are OK with not having the best cut meats or freshest produce or insist on living in the most expensive town in their state.

If the roles were reversed and we had placement of the skids, $400 would definitely cover the cost of food, clothes, phones and entertainment. But I am frugal.

BM has a live in, employed boyfriend, gets $800 CS, collects SSI for some mystery ailment, waitresses at a popular pub (and grossly under-reports to the state -- claiming"she makes $100 per week"), receives food stamps and occasionally fills in as a teacher's aid. She couldn't make $400 per month cover expenses because she has no concept of a budget and no self control when at the mall. She barely survives now, leaving us all scratching our heads wondering where this money goes.

$400 to one person is $4 to another. It is tough to create any standard that makes more sense than what it SHOULD be for 2 willing and able parents: As close to 50/50 placement as possible, mommy covers her costs in her home, daddy covers his. Even if mom is a dog walker and dad is a partner at a successful law firm. 50 f*cking 50. Period.

Britt_Britt's picture

I've lurked here for a while but haven't posted. But I had to say something...

Capping CS would not prevent women from "popping out babies." If men and women kept their pants on, that would help.

And your numbers seem off...

$300 a month for food for two kids? Are they toddlers? We could not feed teenaged SS on $150 a month—not even if we fed him crappy, processed, prepackaged food, which we won't, because it is not healthy. Real food—fresh fruits and veggies and healthy (fresh) protein are expensive. Even when you aren't buying the "best cuts." Chicken, fish, eggs...they aren't cheap, especially when you're buying enough to properly nourish a growing human.

There is a lot more to life as a child than food, clothing, healthcare and shelter. One could argue that the federal prisons provide those minimums for inmates. I would hope our kids deserve more. Things like sports, birthday parties, music lessons...no one *wants* to pay for these, but they are good for a kid and teach life skills like discipline and teamwork. A lot of these activities help kids with schoolwork too. I'm not saying that impoverished parents should have to sign Johnny up for violin, but if the parents have the means, then they shouldn't be the sole responsibility of the CP simply because the NCP doesn't think they are necessary.

TwoOfUs's picture

I doubt it.

The fact they may one day have to pay CS doesn't seem to discourage men from sticking their d*** in or encourage them to take proactive birth control measures...so why should the opposite reality discourage women?

Acratopotes's picture

That's how it is here Willow.... you get a simply CS per child, and no extra's. If you want to live like a queen you will have to find a job, a woman can't simply sit at home and cry... courts will tell her - then find a job.

I still say - governments should charge tax per child.... to both parents, not only one with an income.. and you should get an incentive for not having children... that should stop money grabbing BM's as well...

Oh if you do not have an income to pay your taxes, it's calculated back into workable hours, you get a broom, bucket etc, start sweeping streets, washing buildings, raking parks, picking up dead leaves or what ever.... if you can't pay you work it back in your town..