CS- have your partners ever confronted BM when it's not used on the kids?
I know that CS is an issue that comes up a lot here, and want to hear what you have to say about this.
When we had EOW visitation, my DH paid close to the tune of $1500 a month in CS. BM requested he pay this amount when they got divorced so he agreed mainly because he just wanted to be rid of her.
Then, I came along. I was the one paying ALL the bills. Why? Because DH had to hand over almost all of his paycheck to BM in order to pay CS.
All while DH was paying this exorbitant amount in CS, BM a) never got a job, and 2) the children always came over dirty, in clothes that didn't fit, and ill-fed. On top of paying so much CS to BM, DH had to provide them each with their own room, clothes, toys, etc. I didn't have a problem with that- I'm a SD too and it was much easier on me to not have to pack clothing and toys to bring to my dad's. It helped me to not feel like a visitor and more like a member of the family.
So, DH decided to call BM out on the poor condition the children seemed to be in. He sent it to her via email. He was very polite about it, IMHO. Here's the gist of what he said:
"Dear BM,
For a long, long time now, I have noticed that the kids have been coming over in clothes that are far too small, that the kids are dirty, and that they're ill-fed.
Since we have been divorced, I have never been late with a child support payment. I have always been on time. I have always made a concerted effort to make sure that the child support check reaches you at the court-designated time.
Given what I have just told you that I've noticed about the kids, however, I have concerns that they are going without. I am concerned that the child support is not being spent on them. I have noticed that they have lice, are wearing shoe sizes that are far too small, have bruises that they can't give a good explanation for (and that look un-treated). I am concerned by teachers' reports that the kids come to school without any lunch or lunch money and how bad their appearance is. I am concerned about a report from the school psychologist that you left the children unattended for 9 hours to go party without even hiring a babysitter. I am concerned about the dentist's reports that OSD's cavities are going untreated. I am concerned about the report from a police officer that OSD was left at home while you took YSD to the bar. I am concerned that both OSD and YSD have had to go without their medications prescribed by their doctors because you "can't afford them."
You supposedly can't afford the basic things that the kids need, but you just bought a brand-spanking-new car, went to the Bahamas with some girlfriends (leaving the kids with your parents), bought a new pure-bred dog, and eat out for every meal, every day. You never treat our kids to these meals; you make them starve at home while you're out.
I will be addressing this in my fight for custody of the girls, and will, from this point on, pay you CS through the state of CA because I obviously cannot trust you when I hand you the check directly. The state will be cutting your checks now. I feel this is my only option.
I just want what is best for our girls, and to give them a leg up in life. I hope we can peacefully resolve this and our custody issue for the sake of our children.
Sincerely,
DH"
Have any of your partners done something similar to this before?
- Anon2009's blog
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Comments
Good for him!
My FH had had a talk with BM 6 mths ago because he was shelling out extras left and right then when he would see SD he would always have to buy her clothes because her mom wasn't buying her anything. Now FH did not fight for custody but he is going through an attorney right now for CS (which BM initiated) and like your BM she is going to get LESS then what the greedy bitch was getting before if she had just kept her mouth shut. I'm proud of your DH for standing up for himself - and I think it is great that he is going through the state for CS. Good luck hon, you know this is going to open a can of worms and BM is gonna go crazy - you guys hang in there though!
I can see your POV, Danyelle
Except that, in our case, we had documentation proving that the children weren't being properly looked after at BM's. We also had testimony from their teachers, doctors, and therapist and their testimony agreed with us. He wrote that email out of pure concern for the kids. However, I can see where you are coming from. I've heard bad stories about paying CS via the state, too. But by the time he wrote the email, he was so fed up at seeing the kids go without when he paid BM so much CS and felt sick to his stomach every time he had to cut her a check that he felt it was the only other choice he had.
Good point, Danyelle!
In the future, we will do that! In hindsight, I wish someone had given us the advice you just did. DH has come to realize how telling BM he was going to bring it up in court gave her ammunition, although it was weak ammunition, and he won't make the same mistake twice
Thank you for the great advice!
It is hard to quantify which dollars go where.
unless there is a significantly elevated lifestyle above what the CP could otherwise afford.
In our case my wife has received a pittance of CS for my SS for more than 15 years. It has never been relevant to our ability to support my SS or pay our bills. Early in our marriage it was nice to have it but it has never been critical to our financial situation.
It has been a major bone of contention for the Sperms however. SpermGrandMa and SpermGrandPa bitch about the CS incessantly since they pay it for their worthless POS son. But, that is not our problem.
For over a decade now we have had CS direct deposited from the state CSE office in to an account that no other money goes in to. When my Skid graduates from HS next year and is on his final court ordered summer visitation, my wife and I are going on a cruise that is paid for out of the CS account. We are going to party, buy really expensive stuff and we are going to film it all for posterity. If BioDad or SpermGrandMa ever ask us what we did with the CS, I am going to send them the video. The opening scene will be the account statement balance before the cruise and the closing scene of the video will the the next statement with a big fat ZERO balance.
I am even considering getting a tattoo that says "Your CS dollars paid for this tattoo and a really expensive cruise you worthless POS" right smack in the middle of my right butt cheek surrounded by big red lips. The tattoo will have a prominent place in the "What I did with the BioDad's CS" video.
That ought to be a nice capstone to piss them off with once SS no longer has to go on visitation after his 18th B-Day. The really fun part will be when BioDad and the Sperms realize that CS continues until SS is 21 as long as he is a full time college student. And he WILL be a full time college student until he is at least 21. Even if I have to chain him to the classroom desk and if only to piss off the Sperms. The idiots moved the Case to a county where CS for college students is mandatory until age 21. Stupid people are so entertaining.
Okay, I am kidding about the tattoo. But I like the idea.
I have friends who pay a ton in CS that very little goes to the kids. New cars and vacations for the XW while the kids wear old clothes that are to small and while the CP complains that they don't have any money. The CS is for the kids and there should be some requirement that CPs have to account for where it is spent.
In our case, we voluntarily submitted a very detailed spreadsheet to the Judge the last time that BioDad attempted to get the pittance of CS he pays lowered because of the addition of yet another out-of-wedlock spawn to his brood (He has four out-of-wedlock spawn by three different mothers. SS is the oldest). The spreadsheet showed how much we pay in clothing, food, taxes for a top school district, after school care, extracurricular activities, etc ......... The CS my SS receives from his BioDad has never been more than ~15% of what it costs to raise and care for my SS. Even at that pittance level BioDad and the Sperms whine about it.
So, yes. I guess we have communicated a similar message to the one your DH sent to his XW. Only our communication was 180 degrees from the opposite perspective.
Your DH did absolutely the right thing IMHO. Your DH is holding XW accountable for how she spends the money and is making sure the State is as aware as possible of the situation. Good for him!
We forced payroll withholding directly from BioDad's checks so that he would at least have the PITA of having to ask his parents for it each month rather than them dropping it off at the CSE office. For similar reasons.
Petty I know, but I take every chance I can get to shove my foot up THEIR asses. }:)
Pissing off the Blended Family opposition is a sport that I enjoy and have gotten pretty good at over the years.
Best regards,
Rags,
Your son's boi-dad and family always give me a good laugh! They moved the case to a county where CS payments have to continue to be made until SS is 21 if he's a full-time college student! That's too funny!
too much
I never get bored reading your blogs.
whether I agree or not I think your insight on things is quite well insightful.
thanks for being on here!!
"Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without one."
Rags, I am disappointed
to hear that the tattoo thing was a joke. I laughed so hard when I read that! You are such good comic relief!
Not on purpose Dany.
I actually believe that CS should require a significant level or accountability from the recipient to prove where it is is spent. If the recipient can show that they pay far more to support their child than the NCP does in child support then which dollars go where is kind of a moot point.
Keep in mind that my SS's BioDad has four out-of-wedlock children by three different young mothers and has a long and distinguished career of inappropriate sexual relationships with minors. He has never paid CS for my SS, his Mommy has always paid it for him. His Mommy also paid CS for child #2 until Mom#2 dropped the kid off at SpermGrandMa's with the youngest two who GrandMa raises full time in her home. He (BioDad) is a licensed journeyman plumber who spends his money on lowrider car parts, snowboarding and juvenile fantasy card games. He makes decent money but absolutely refuses to support his children. In short, he is pathetic.
My wife and I have worked very hard to put ourselves through college, grad school and to provide every opportunity for our son (my SS).
The CS money has been in a separate direct deposit account because we do not want the State to be able to take money out of our primary account if they make a mistake. When you sign up for direct deposit of CS the state can access your account to recoup any erroneous deposits without prior notification. We keep CS and other money separate so the State can't take out money. Since we don't need the money and the account is interest bearing we just leave it there.
And, yes. We really are going on a cruise and paying for it out of that account. As money goes, once a dollar is deposited in an account it looses its traceability as far as what a specific dollar is spent on. I will be able to unequivocally know that the CS money is what paid for the cruise. Even though in the relative scheme of our income and finances the amount is not significant, paying for it out of that account will be my final allegorical whiz on BioDad's leg.
I know your DH is a BioDad who struggles with a BM who abuses CS and interferes with your DH's relationship with his kid(s). Rest assured that we have never interfered with SS's visitation with his BioDad and BioDad's extended family. Though I detest them, I would never interfere or undermine my SS's relationship with them.
Your DH and my SS's SpermDonor are nothing alike. One is a caring involved father who is victimized by a manipulative evil BM. The other is a worthless POS.
Best regards,
It's YOUR money
That money in your account is YOUR money. CS is to pay the CP back for monies spent on the child. It is to help partially offset expenses accrued by the CP while raising the child/ren. Whether it goes to pay the PGE, water, the mortgage, food, cost of school, cost of gas to get child to said school, school supplies, daycare, clothing....it all benefits the child.
When it was just FH and I, PGE was $60 a month. Now it's $200 with the kiddos here. Food went from $75 a week to $150 a week. Gas to get them to and from two different sets of school is an extra $50-$75 a week. Daycare for the 3 for the month is $400-$500 depending on how many weeks are in the month. Water bill jumped up. Dental bills, prescriptions, OTC medications, doctor visits, optometrist, school uniforms. Had to buy more laundry detergent, shampoo, conditioner, toothpaste, shower gel, toilet paper, deodorant, shaving gel, razors. Pretty soon we'll need to add feminine hygiene products. School lunches, clothing, shoes, entertainment, extracurricular activities,it all adds up. I won't include rent, since it was our choice to provide each kid with their own room. BM pays $400 a month to daycare directly. We are responsible for the rest. Even if she paid FH directly, if she ever dared to ask us to account for where her CS goes, I will be livid.
But in my case, it is obvious that the children are well cared for. They are provided for. If we let them walk around in rags, they were always sick and dirty, bruised, malnourished, and BM approached us about this, I would be ashamed. I would be ashamed that I am driving around in a brand new car, eating out every meal, going out and partying instead of getting a job, all while my children's basic needs are not being met.
In your case Rags, it's OBVIOUS that the lifestyle your SS is given with you is far and above what he could have expected with his BF. It's not like you're keeping the money for yourself while your SS walks around in rags and gets bread and water to eat.
You don't have to defend your position on taking the money from the CS account. I think it's brilliant.
BF had to do this
BM did not have a job up until March (first job in AGES) so guess where all the CS went. Yep, that's right. BM's parents were providing everything for SS and SD but then BM decided to move out of her parents house and into this fancy apartment that she seriously can't afford. So since she was jobless, she was using CS to pay the rent. BM didn't buy a SS a jacket this past winter so he was just going out in the cold. When BF found out he was furious beyond words. He told her that CS was for the children. If she had enough money to pay for all of the kids expenses and used the CS as extra then that would be one thing but this selfish woman was using it all on herself and not giving a damn about her kid getting sick. He was going to take her to court for custody but then she decided to get a job...Best of luck in court!
my FH's child support
is $75.00 a week (he pays that on his own every week in the form of a money order to BM). EVERY week..she takes $50.00 of it to rent a center and pays on her laptop. She does not have a job, pays no rent (lives with her mom (does not buy food) gets food stamps. And her mom works at salvation army so all FH's son's clothes come from there. She also has her nails done every week..so basically none of his child support goes to the child. It IS infuriating, but nothing he can do about it..about a week ago though his son was with us and a hat that she had bought him from lids (or someone bought for him)..they are $15 got ruined. She called FH up and said that he owed her $30.00 for the hat because it was ruined. He told her that is what my CS is for and hung up on her.
"He grew up in my heart, not my belly"
It's tough to judge these things
Anon - my EH used to gripe about the kids wearing ratty old clothes and shoes that were too small. He was right. They got filthy playing outside at daycare and so I put them in old clothes to go there. Since he picked them up there, they were always dirty and in old clothes. My daughter always had on a particular pair of shoes that were too small. She and I fought about it every morning until I finally decided she would suffer the natural consequences of shoes that are too small... blisters, sore feet, etc. IMO those were parenting decisions that I made. EH thought I was just being neglectful and was upset that I wasn't spending his whopping $100 a month on nicer clothes for them. My point is that it is not always what it appears on the surface.
I realize your case is MUCH more extreme, and obviously the children's needs should be met. But I do think a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking that child support is for new toys and expensive clothes for the kids. It's not. Part of it SHOULD be used to purchase cars, homes, pay utilities, etc. This IS the cost of raising kids.
I completely understand your concerns about the kids not being cared for, but in my opinion that is a separate issue than child support. Care for the children and child support are not dependent upon one another.
We used to send SS to visitation with either older stuff, thrift
store stuff or low end flea market stuff because the nice name brand stuff never came back. They (the Sperm family) would keep his Nike's, Polo's, A&F, Holister, etc and the half sibs would show up wearing my SS's stuff when he got off of the plane for the next visitation. So we ended up sending him with one or two days worth of worn yet serviceable clothes that could be washed and re-worn.
Now that SS is a tall 16yo his newer nice stuff does not come home and SpermDad wears it. When we called to ask that it be shipped back we got "My CS paid for it, it stays here". He is such a pathetic POS that he does not realize that the pittance he pays in CS in a year would not cover two shopping trips a year much less the whole clothing bill for my SS. Not to mention food, shoes, contact lenses, glasses, dental care, medical co-pays, Rx co-pays, sports team dues, sports equipment, band dues, instruments, uniforms, entertainment, taxes for top school districts (when he lived at home), boarding school tuition, travel to national finals competitions in sports, housing, utilities etc ....
The kid grows like a weed and needs new jeans every 3-4 months.
They used to call to ask for the stuff that SS had outgrown be be sent to them. Nope, it goes to Goodwill and we get a tax write off for it.
My wife and I support our son (my SS). It is not our job to supplement raising BioDad's other three out-of-wedlock children. Don't get me wrong. I feel sorry for those kids. They are doomed to be yet another generation of toothless idiots.
So, your are right. Things are not always what they seem on the surface. Particularly when it comes to kids and worn clothing.
Best regards,
We are on the other side of
We are on the other side of this fence here, simply because BM is ordered to pay us the CS. And we see about 5 months worth of CS then the rest of the year nothing at all. We also have a state account for the kids but my husband doesn't keep any of what we are currently receiving from BM in there, he moves it into a separate account that he can earn interest off of. Last year we got "told" by BM that her whole tax check which automatically goes to my husband due to back CS she owes was ONLY for the kids and not our wedding! Now on the one hand she knows how my husband is with saving money and keeping track of finances in general, but to "tell" us we can't use it on the wedding was stupid. We had NO intentions of using that money on our wedding. Both my husband and I save their money for things they need and sometimes things they want. In our situation it's hard to rely on CS money since we usually ONLY get it 5 out of 12 months a year! Plus her tax check!
In this situation yes the kids are being neglected and thats just horrible for any kid to go through. I do agree that DH should not have said anything to BM about the being neglected and how it will be brought up in court. Next time let her be surprised when you nail her ass with all the proof backing up your accusations! My husband goes back to court a month from today and he plans to nail her ass with some stuff but we haven't told her and don't plan to either! Good Luck
Um, her tax return is forfeit to you because she is a deadbeat!
What a moron she is if she thinks her tax return is volutairily surrendered. Her tax return is confiscated because she is a deadbeat who won't pay her CS.
Of course you support the kids. You and your FH are REAL parents not a pathetic POS like the BM you have to deal with.
As for the funds for the wedding. I would spend exactly the amount of the BM's confiscated tax return on the Wedding Cake and give her a copy of the receipt with a note "Thanks for the beautiful wedding cake!" Just to piss her off. She is a big enough idiot that she would be convinced that those exact dollars came from the confiscated tax return. Let her stew in the juices of her own stupidity.
I hate stupid people. But they are so much fun to play.
Congrats on the wedding and I hope you, FH and all of the kids have great time celebrating your new family.
Best regards,
The tax return
is to pay YOU back for the money YOU spent supporting HER children while she was neglecting to pay child support. If you want to spend YOUR money on YOUR wedding, it is YOUR prerogative.
If she had met her obligations to her children throughout the year, her tax return would not have been confiscated, and you would not have to come out of your own pocket to make up for her lack. That money could have gone into your wedding budget instead. So...happy shopping and have fun buying things for your wedding with YOUR MONEY.