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Problem with our family Wizard communication

Biostep7777's picture
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So DH and HCBM are suppose to only communicate on OFW. However it seems a stipulation is that they can call if it's an emergency which is something that needs to happen in less than 24 hours. The problem is that HCBM will make excuses to contact him and claim it's less than 24 for this and that and 10 other things. 
 

to avoid that can anyone share what they have in their CO to avoid this? 

tog redux's picture

If it's not something that falls under that category or needs to be managed within 24 hours, ignores it. 

CastleJJ's picture

No CO in the world is going to prevent your crazy HCBM from pulling her crap. I would outline what constitutes as an emergency though. Your SS had a hernia; serious but not an emergency. Your DH did not need to respond to any phone calls and honestly, dealing with BM in a way that cannot be documented in writing (i.e. phone) is a mistake.

Your DH should have taken SS to urgent care, notifying BM on OFW, and then sent BM a copy of the discharge paperwork from urgent care using OFW. And don't skip any pages... My DH sent BM 4/5 pages of a urgent care discharge report because page 5 was a customer satisfaction survey and BM tried to claim we were withholding medical records. There should be no communication via phone or text - only OFW.

Anyway, if BM continued to follow up on OFW, phone, and text, with "what are you doing to take care of him" or anything of the sort, the response should have been (on OFW only): "I am following physician's orders as documented in the discharge paperwork. Since this medical situation has been handled, medical care has been sought, and you have been informed, I will not be communicating on this topic any further unless SS' condition changes or further medical attention is required. If this occurs, you will be notified." Then he needs to ignore her completely. Let BM blow up phone, text, and OFW. Hell, DH can block her phone number and text for 24 hours until she can simmer down.

Your DH can also put BM on notice (using OFW) that if she calls him under the guise of an emergency to discuss other topics, she will lose her access to phone communication. The CO outlines phone calls for emergencies only. If BM begins communicating about other topics during an "emergency related phone call," the phone call will immediately end and BM will be expected to relay those topics through OFW. If she continues to abuse her phone access, all information, including emergencies, will have to be communicated through OFW only.

Yes, your DH has made a good start with boundaries, but he needs better and stronger ones. Giving BM any rope at all will only cause further issues. 

tog redux's picture

Agree 100%. Don't think a CO will stop her from doing this. DH's was about 10 pages long and BM still did what she pleased. So the better way is to set firm boundaries and don't let her violate them. 

ESMOD's picture

I agree some definition or at least expressing that those issues must be urgent and emergent within that period.

I do feel like any medical attention like going to urgent care unexpectedly is one item that should be communicated more urgently.  Especially since this did end up an ER visit.. She may be overdramatic.. but a child who is hurt will bring that out in a parent and they may want more frequent updates than your dh gave.. and i don't think a judge would slap her hand for not using OFW in that case.

However, if she is constantly having last minute 'non-emergency" communications.. like regarding a sports practice that has been scheduled for weeks.. he needs to call her on it.  Her failure to plan does not make everything an emergency.

Emergencies call to mind medical issues that are urgent and proximate.... or a car accident that is going to prevent you from picking up a child.  Emergencies typically are not frequent and the cost of delayed response would be bad.. put her calls to the test on that.. if she is giving last minute stuff to get around the order.. respond in OFW that she has contacted you outside OFS with a non-emergency.. and you will not respond.

 

Biostep7777's picture

I agree if the child wasn't almost 12 and she was calling him every hour for updates on how he was feeling. Why does DH have to further update her. He told her when and where he was taking him to urgent care. Then he let her know when and where they were going to the ER. I'm between she spoke to SS half a dozen times. She was at the ER visit with them. She called SS as soon as they got home. She called or texted every 20 minutes after that. DH let her know the next morning that he was comfortable on Advil. He notified her this morning that SS felt ok to go to school. Like...how much more does she want. She literally wanted DH to call her and update her every hour even though she was already doing that with SS. It's ridiculous. 
 

However, besides that she will say she just found out about a club meeting or a clinic or blah blah and it needs to be discussed immediately. If he doesn't call we get a 5 page essay. 
 

ya'll she doesn't stop. She never ever stops. It's just overwhelming. We ignore her as best we can but she just keeps trying to get him to talk to her. It's not about the kids it's about how she has expectations that he needs to follow (he words) he just walks away and she chases him saying "don't walk away from me" this is at ballgames! She comes to our house and walks right up to our door no matter his many times he has told her to please wait in the street. She is sooooo nosy. So invasive. We need some CLEAR VERY DETAILED stipulations. 

ESMOD's picture

I can see her being more urgent re the medical issue... but it should not be as frequent if she can and is contacting the kid directly.

The other stuff.. club meetings etc.. they are not urgent issues.. if he misses something.. that she didn't keep up with.. that's her fault.  I would in OFW be asking her for the proof that it was a last minute issue.. and explain the urgency of it.  

 

 

strugglingSM's picture

Everything is an "emergency" to a HCBM. DH added this provision - no phone calls unless it's an emergency - in his first mediation after divorce. Within weeks, HCBM told him she needed to speak to him on the phone because it was an "emergency" and it was because she decided not to send SSs to overnight camp. He now doesn't take any phone calls from her. 

They are parallel parenting, so really there is not much that the two of them need to discuss. But, if he gives her an inch, she'll take a mile. 

Biostep7777's picture

That is EXACTLY what she's doing. There must be something we can put in there that she can't do that. The other issue is that she approches him at baseball games and tries to have conversations with him. He walks away but it's so inappropriate of her to do that. There has to be something we can have in the CO. I mean I can't believe they can do this and it's just accepted? Crazy! 

CastleJJ's picture

Outside of a restraining order, there isn't much you can do. And to get a restraining order, you would need proof of harassment. To get this, DH would need recordings of BM acting out at sporting events and following him all over the field, you would need recordings through a Ring Doorbell or exterior camera showing BM coming up to the house and DH telling her in front of the cameras to please wait in the street, and her ignoring those requests, you would need documented phone records showing incessant calling and texting, you need police reports showing trespassing on private property, etc. Without a restraining order, she can continue to approach him whenever she feels like it. 

If DH doesn't want to go as far as a restraining order, he can warn her that if she steps foot in the driveway/yard, that he will call the police for trespassing, then follow through on that threat, if it occurs. At ball games, I recommend staying as far away as possible and if she tries to approach, ignore, and get as far away as possible again. 

Biostep7777's picture

Thank you. That is helpful. He has some of this but not all. Maybe he needs to start recording every single time he's at a game. 

strugglingSM's picture

BM used to do that, too. The only thing your DH can do is ignore her. Don't answer her phone calls or texts. Only reply through OFW. At games, just try to stay away from her. At most say, "I don't think it's appropriate to discuss that here." HCBMs thrive on attention, even negative attention, so it takes work to cut them off. They also know that they can cry at any legal proceedings about being a "poor single mother" and get whatever they want, even if they are not in fact single and even if they agreed to something in a legal document. 

I started seeing a counselor just to deal with BM's antics and then MIL and BIL's enabling. It's so hard. 

tog redux's picture

If he goes into court saying, "I want in there that she can't speak to me at the kids' events", he will be labeled as the high conflict one.  "What does she talk to you about, Mr. BioStep?"  "The kids".  "Why don't you want her talking to you about the kids?" "She's annoying and crazy and I don't like her."  That's not going to fly.

You can't control BM. Trust me when I say that no piece of paper will control BM, no matter how detailed it is. She might get a little more crafty about how she violates the order, but she will. And she's clever, so she will always make it "about the kids" so she looks good and has plausible deniability.

Your DH needs to get tougher. He's doing better, but he should have not given her any updates on how SS is doing and not responded to her texts or calls. YOU should not have responded to her texts and calls. She keeps it up because it works, she gets rewarded. Once court is over and she's less anxious about all of this, she will tone it down some. But she will never be sane, and she will always test boundaries.

Biostep7777's picture

He didn't answer any of her texts or calls. He only updated on OFW what he was required to do per the CO. Nothing more. She doesn't like that he's following the CO so getting super pissed. I am okay responding once. That's all you get from me. One time. Once she started texting kids I ignored her. 
 

She's not talking about the kids though. She's talking about her expectations of him, how the court order is "just a piece of paper" and how he should be updating her regardless of what the CO says and telling him not to walk away from her. Lol. He ignored her. 

tog redux's picture

I know you want someone to control her and make her stop - you'd be better off putting your energy towards laughing at her and not letting her bother you so much. If she's texting and calling, he can turn off the phone or block her temporarily.  If he needs to film her when she comes close, or bring a friend to the games (BM here wouldn't approach DH if I was there), then do it. 

BM here once told SS that DH making her follow the CO was him "controlling her". And she got furious when he ignored her calls, texts and emails (and told SS so).  I know you think this isn't working to make her stop, but you haven't put the time in yet, and you haven't gotten through court yet.

Expect her to be crazy. Expect her to be difficult. Plan for it and set clear and firm boundaries. You seem surprised and shocked every time she acts like the crazy person she is.  We call BM "PEW" (ie psycho ex-wife) and our expression was "PEW's gonna be PEWish!"  Laugh at how crazy she is and get on with life.

 

Harry's picture

If it's not a emergency. He should answer on OFW not text or calling her.  Think there a red flag here.  Your DH LIKES PLAYING with the ex.   Because he not putting his foot down.  But doing communication with the ex, then complaining to you about it 

Biostep7777's picture

Huh? He's not answering her. He only communicates on OFW and only what the CO states he has to. He has not answered a text, email or phone call since they were ordered to use OFW. Not one single time. He's now going to ask to only have one parent at games and yes, he has recordings to show. No red flags. She is relentless. He can't stand her. 

Thumper's picture

Ma'am, In stead of asking a Judge to order 1 parent to the games,,,,how about Dad not go if it is too much to stand far away from bm. OR sit in his car?

IF bm starts to walk towards him, GO to the car and leave. The kid is 12 right? They see what is going on, they know their mom is a pain. Just tell the kid I love you, I will sit in my car and watch you, ok?

---------------

Exactly what does the court order say IS required of DH and our family wizard? That he check it 1x a week? OR does it say DAD MUST RESPOND TO MOM each time she sends him a note?

 

Biostep7777's picture

No it states that the parent has to be informed immediately in a case of injury or emergency. So when he took him to urgent care he notified her in OFW. When he took him to the ER. He notified her in OFW. She was pissed that he would not call her, text her and answer her 40 text messages. He let her know what he was ordered to and nothing more. She is livid! So a couple days later she approached him at SS baseball game (they went to watch) and she showed up (their son was not even playing and it was dad's time) just to start a scene with DH. He walked away, he ignored her. Which pissed her off even more. It's just sickening. 

Rags's picture

The beauty of a CO is that you can interpret it as you wish  If it is not an emergency, do not answer or reply to BM other than through OFW.  Make it clear to BM that "emergency" means severe illness or injury and DH and only DH will interperate what he considers to be an emergency and will only answer any communication from her outside of OFW if it meets his interpretation of emergency.   If she takes issue with that... "we will see you in court".

We had to go to court only twice in the 16 years we lived under a CO for a follow up clarification. We split the outcomes.

First was to smack the SpermClan around about not returning SS from SpermLand visitation on time per the CO.  They cried that travel was on our time and their visitation did not start until he arrived in SpermLand.  Nope.  It was clear, he traveled the day school was out and returned the day before school started which applied to both WInter and Spring visitation.  Summer was different though they attempted this same shit regardless of which visitation it was.  So, we smacked them with a rolled up copy of the CO and had the Judge smack them as well (figuratively of course).  The Judge added a clarification to the CO stipulating that visitation began when the child began travel to SpermLand and ended XX days,  or XXX hours, etc... following the beginning of visitation and had to be back in the care of the CP (his mom, my wife) at or before the time he was surrendered for visitation on the final day of visitation.  They did not like that one bit.

The second time was when we billed them for a Trumpet for SS's band class.  It was not extracurricular, it was part of his class schedule. We billed them for half.  Nope, the Judge made it clear that other than half of all medical expenses not covered by insurance CS covered everything.  No big deal.  But it made them feel better.

I am a fan of interpreting a CO to the advantage of the good guys.  Adding supplemental county rules and state regulations to the CO and you have a comprehensive and very effective tool for controlling the opposition and the overall blended family interface.

My DW and I kept copies of the CO, supplemental county rules, and state regulations on our work hard drives as well as in our home office.  When SpermGrandHag would call to pull some shit, DW would conference me in on mute, I would listen and  feed her specific CO, Rule & Reg references when SGH  would go toxic.  Whe she was reasonable, which was rare, DW would be reasonable with her. When SpermGrandHag  did her usual, it was game on and the "beatings" would begin.

 

halo1998's picture

You can try to legislate cray cray all you want but in the end a crazy person will do crazy things.  DH and Beaver are court ordered to use OFW unless its an emergency. 

Beaver HATES OFW with the passion of 10,000 suns.  Why, because she can't get out of what she writes/says and can't claim that DH didn't tell her something by way of just not reading the text messges/voice mail whatever.   OFW is a written record and is accessable by third parties and keeps a record of when something is read. (I LOVE that feature as we have smacked the fat orange tooth rodent many times with the fact she read the message and we could give her the date and time).  So..yea she likes to try and use text messages, smoke signals, etc.  DH has learned over the years..unless the kid is bleeding and in the ER ....he just doesn't respond to anything other than OFW.  If she text messages and it needs a response..he copies and/or photograpsh the text message into OFW and respond back to her that way.

At least 5 years of doing this has forced Beaver to stop sending a billion messages that DH won't respond to and to start using OFW instead.    Its a long and tedious process.  The fat rodent still tries to text message every once in awhile to test the waters...but the results are the same.  

tog redux's picture

Yep, it takes YEARS of firm boundaries to get one of these high conflict women in check.

nengooseus's picture

And it is HIGHLY unlikely that a judge will order only one parent at events.  The concept is that it's in the best interests of the child for both parents to be fully involved, even if one of them is abusive to the other (unless it's physical abuse, which could lead to a restraining order).

My DH's solution is that he doesn't go to anything.  He's been honest with the kids and told them not to expect him, unless it's super important to them (i.e. DH went to the awards dinner because kiddo asked him to).

Our CO only allows direct communication in case of emergency, as well, and it provides the phone numbers that must be used.  No texting and everything else is through OFW.  Honestly, we screen her "emergency" calls, too, as her definition of emergency is different than ours.  

ESMOD's picture

^^Yes^^

As others have said.. basically, crazy is as crazy does.  This woman is going to push the envelope.  Is she wrong? sure.. does that matter a hill of beans to her or to the courts? NOPE.  Is it aggravating to you and your DH?  SURE.  Can you do anthing about it? MOST LIKELY NO.  

So, since you can't control her actions.. all you can do is control your RE-actions.  

And.. I say this in the most respectful and intending to be helpful way here.. You need to stop letting this woman take up so much space in your head.  I know this is a venting site.. but sometimes in the venting, we become too entwined and wrapped up and consumed by the issue.  

Clearly, his EX thinks that the fact that they share a child gives her the right to approach your DH digitally or in person about said child... the child is "hers" and she will not be excluded from that child's life.. even when he is with the dad.  she will do all she can to make herself central and relevant.

From past posts.. it's pretty clear that your DH has been a bit ambiguous in the past when he communicated and that left things a LOT more open to her coming back and reworking things with him.  While he may be improving in that dept... he did this for a while.. it will not stop overnight.

But, for you.. the best thing would be to sit back a bit and let your dH manage his eX.  He can communicate through OFW (though.. I still kind of think that the medical issue going to "urgent" care and the "emergency" room were things that warranted going outside OFW... though perhaps not to the extent she wanted to be updated.).  If he goes to sporting events.. he does not respond to her.. sits away from her. if she approaches him.. he can walk to a different area.. or as someone else said.. watch from his car if possible.  IF she does corner him.. he can grey rock her.. not respond.. not acknowledge her.. let her "go crazy".. he does not have to engage with her...   He CAN do that.. and eventually.. she will likely stop or slow down these ambush attempts because she will start being embarassed by his ignoring of her presence.  He can state loudly for everyone to hear.  "Now, BM, you know because of your past conduct the judge has ordered us to only communicate through OFW... if you need to contact me, please use the court ordered method"  Calling her out that she has been a problem and the courts agreeing?  he won't have to say that many times in public for her to think twice about approaching him.

But, again, try to focus on more positive things in your life because one thing that will likely never change is that his EX is going to push and expect to dictate whatever she thinks she can if it involves the kids.  It's as sure as the sun rising.. and no sense cursing the sun for being the sun.. the sun just is.  So put on your shades and relax knowing that she can SAY what she wants.. but you still get to make the rules in your own home... that is certain.

ExhaustedByItAll's picture

DH told her not to call or text unless:

1. It is a medical emergency with the kids where one/both are in the emergency room 

2. Changeover location needs to change for some reason on the day of changeover

Everything else needs to go through email.

psycho BM here did the same thing, suddenly everything was an emergency and she was constantly calling/texting. He stopped answering her calls full stop and he would (later, when he had time), screen shot her text messages into an email and respond that way if they even warranted a response.

Rags's picture

Copying texts and emails to OFW and responding there is a brilliant idea.  It moves the bullshit to a recorded and reviewed medium.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

She needs to be told not to call if it's an emergency, but to text the exact emergency. She may not follow it, but after so many times of no amswer to her calls, hopefully she will get tired of it.