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Positive discipline only

Jcksjj's picture

The school my DS and SD go to seems to have a policy for only using positive encouragement and not really having any discipline. The furthest discipline really goes is to have them sit in the "peace place" to relax for a bit. I'm starting to find this annoying because the kids seem to basically think they can so whatever they want. DS at first didnt even realize that getting sent to the peace place meant his behavior needed to change. He had a teacher last year who was an amazing mix of both caring and yet stern enough but she seems to be a rarity. 

SDs teacher is 100 percent only positivity and will only correct her at all in a sing songy voice that DH told her at the beginning of the year wont work with her. She sent home a postcard giving her special recognition for working on her goals of following directions in a timely manner, listening when others are talking and not interrupting. She hasn't actually made any progress, but apparently giving accolades for "working" towards a goal when shes not even actually trying is going to fix that. This week she got sent home a paper where the goal was to do 20 basic math problems (which they've been working on for nearly 2 years) and get 18 of them correct. SD did 8 and the teacher told her how wonderful she did. That's not even half of what the goal was.

I'm all for giving recognition and positivity for kids working hard or actually achieving goals, but seriously when they arent even hardly trying and get the same accolades why would they be motivated to do any more than the bare minimum.

Comments

beebeel's picture

So if you believe the school's consequences are too soft, you are perfectly free to discipline these kids at home. I was always much more afraid of my parents' punishments than the schools.

Jcksjj's picture

Kind of hard to do when I'm not at the school all day and only find out about things incidentally here and there. DS at least obviously is punished when I do find out something. Please dont bother posting if you dont have something halfway helpful to add.

beebeel's picture

Well, just because you aren't hearing what you want, doesn't mean my advice isn't helpful. These kids are young and I'm sure the school is more than willing to communicate with you concerning their behavior. If you only hear about things here and there, it sounds like you need to be more proactive.

Jcksjj's picture

I see his special ed teacher every day when I pick him up from school and she tells me if he had a good day etc...the post is mainly about SD and theres one thing that I noticed in regards to my son. I'm really not looking for advice, it's just a commentary on how I think things have gotten a little out of hand with only being positive 100 percent of the time with kids. It's way different than when I was in school and I'm not that old.

thinkthrice's picture

and we NEVER had "positive discipline."  We only heard about anything if we were doing something WRONG!

To this day I can't stand to hear the phrase "Gooooooood jooooooob Buuuuuuudddddy!"    It becomes white noise after a while to a child. 

Save to say us "oldsters" as a rule, turned out much better than the snowflakes I see running the show today.

Jcksjj's picture

I'm 30 and kind of on the line where there was still discipline but still plenty of awards and recognition etc. Now there appears to be almost no discipline and a constant stream of praise for all kids no matter what. Although it does depend somewhat on the teacher. But they want to make sure if there is an award every kid gets some version of it at some point which is definitely different than when I was in school. Like they have these award things for behavior that is "above and beyond" such as going out of your way to help someone etc. SD got one for "being a mindreader" and guessing what was next on the class schedule...uh what? 

ESMOD's picture

I don't think the comment was unhelpful.  The advice was that just because the school doesn't hold a child accountable, it doesn't mean that the parents can't have a much higher standard. 

For example, the paper with 20 questions came home.  It seems you are aware (and I'm assuming your DH is aware) that these have been an ongoing issue.

Doesn't someone work with her on her assignments?  Wouldn't you know when assignments aren't completed (I mean more like your DH.. not you specifically).

If there are ongoing issues with work not being completed.. it seems like her parents should be more on top of her assignments etc.. in touch with the teacher so that they can ensure the work is completed.

No, they can't make the teacher be harder on her.. but they can get the teacher to let them know when things aren't done completely.. or when things are assigned etc... then it is up for the parent on how they will deal with the child and consequences.

 

Jcksjj's picture

They dont have homework sent home this year so no we dont know when things arent completed. The paper I'm talking about was an in class assignment that she brought home in her folder and thr teacher had already checked it and wrote that she did good. The papers very rarely even get sent home that they do in school. I mainly only see my sons drawings he does in his spare time and maybe once a week an actual assignment. I know they save some of them for conferences but there has to be more than that. And no the advice isnt really helpful from beebeel because A. I wasn't looking for advice at all the point of the post was just how ridiculous the "everyone gets a participation trophy" culture is getting IMo and I dont expect to be able to change that and B. I already do with my own son what she said when I have the chance (its not implied anywhere that I dont) and it's not up to me for SD. 

ESMOD's picture

I get that it's frustrating...I think the comment that just because schools aren't as stringent.. doesn't mean parents have to follow suit is valid.  I understand that this is your DH's responsibility... so hopefully he steps up to the plate and overrides this snowflake treatment.

Jcksjj's picture

I agree with that.. but I also think it's kind of obvious I dont parent that way or I wouldnt be irritated by the school not being on the same page with it. So just automatically being told it's a parenting issue is annoying and unhelpful. I really don't get how anyone would even jump to the conclusion that wanting kids held accountable and teachers to have standards would imply in any way that I dont discipline at home. A good school system + good parenting is more effective than just one or the other.

justmakingthebest's picture

I would be so frustrated as a parent with that system! I don't want my child to be rewarded for mediocracy! I want them to strive to be their best. It is one thing if that was her best, but you believe she is capable of so much more, she just isn't getting the proper push at school...

Have you spoken to more than the teacher on this? I might try a conference with the principal, honestly. I get that they don't "punish" kids, but can they at least skip congratulating them on crap work? Failing grades? If they won't do the discipline, can they send a letter/email/ something so that you can take care of it at home? At least there are consequences somewhere?

Jcksjj's picture

That's exactly it. Why would you even want to be the kid going the extra mile when all the kids who are trying half as hard get the same exact response anyway? They arent old enough to understand really the future consequences of things (2nd grade) so the more immediate response is important. 

I feel the same that if they arent going to discipline at least dont actually award doing poorly. I'm not 100 percent she can do A LOT better with the actual math work but I think she needs extra help, not just told good job and as far as the behavior I know she can do better. 

Harry's picture

start doing some of the hard work, in parenting your kids,and not sit back and blame the school.  If this bothers you, then be at the school for all meeting. Check your kids homework make them do it!!! And do it right. How did this 20 problem paper get sent back to school with only 8 problems done ? And not done right.   Did you or SO check this paper ? Guest not 

you have start helping not blame others for not doing what you should be doing

Jcksjj's picture

Where did it say it was homework? It was an in school assignment that was already done. Sent home with a star and "great job" on it. So was DH supposed to be at school doing it with her? Last I checked that is the teachers job to mark things with the correct grade? And SD isnt my kid.

I do attend every meeting for my kid...I'm not sure where it says I dont or where you are getting that from? What does that have to do with the school overall getting rid of discipline and only using positive reinforcement as a general practice? 

STaround's picture

Not certain if for just the SD, or for all the kids (although it does seem that the teacher set forth expectations, with the 18/20).  Has dad had kid evaluated?  Should kid be able to meet expectations?  IMHO, unless kid is SN, kid should be able to keep up in younger grades.  I don't expect every kid to be able to handle AP Physics or Calc BC, but in K-5, 8/20 means needs help.  Parents should get kid evaluated.  

Jcksjj's picture

Thanks for the thoughtful comment....that's what I'm wondering also is if she just thinks she isnt capable and is telling her great job because of that. Her teacher last year had her in a small group math class because she was getting behind and I'm guessing she needs to be again. That's why I dont get why her teacher just keeps saying shes doing great when shes obviously not, shes just going to get more behind especially in math where the concepts add on to one another.

ndc's picture

I would set up a meeting with the teacher in which you let her know the child is not working up to her abilities and ask her to raise the expectations. Also ask to be informed promptly of behavior/work problems so it can be dealt with at home. And when I say "you," I mean your husband (or both of you if you're an involved SM). 

What grade are we talking about? Public school?  Where's BM in all this?

Jcksjj's picture

2nd grade...BM is involved and has her every other week but basically just hears all the positive comments and tells everyone she has "the perfect child." That's an actual quote from her. And yes public school. I think alot of the issue is that there are so many kids with severe issues in the area we live in that kids that are barely getting by such as SD kind of get overlooked.

Healyourslf's picture

The "everyone gets a trophy" mentality has not raised the bar of accomplishment these last decades. I understand the value of commendation, but pampered recognition is a pat on the back for mediocrity. This is more apt to create a life long habit of laziness and "hand-it-to-me" behaviors.

Whichever parent(s) liason with the school should question the school's/teacher's methodology AND be on top of it at home. Learning cannot be relegated strictly to the academic environment. School may teach, standardize academic markers and enrich children in certain ways, BUT the desire to learn and achieve begins with what parents instill and follow through with. 

Kids need to learn that there's no  "easy way out" - whether that's chores, homework, sports or general survival.  It's ridiculous to raise them with the idea that they deserve a trophy/award for merely complying with mediocrity.  Achievement is much sweeter when they've EARNED it. 

Jcksjj's picture

It seems to be completely backfiring to me. And I agree with you on the school/parent liaison thing. There is an obvious difference in DS attitude vs SD even though they go to the same school and are in the same grade which obviously comes from BM having pretty much the opposite parenting philosophy as me (DH did too to ab extent but has gotten much better). But it i still wish the school system was more on the same page because it would be more effective as a whole. I mean dont get me wrong, theres some great individual teachers and he definitely is still learning and growing but I also feel like theres alot of things that got worse after he started school because of how some things are handled and watching other kids do things and get away with it. Its not impossible, its just less effective then it could be.

MoominMama's picture

I brought my sons up before schools got like this. I have seen it with SS though. He was at a special school with a 'peaceful' area etc, he has a trophy for sports day just for taking part.

Personally I think positivity has its place and is good for kids when they have made a good effort but schools these days take it too far, giving praise when it's not really earned and failing to discipline consistently. 

SS being hi func Auti spent a good part of one of his school years at about age 8/9 working on a project about himself and how 'special' he is. It had 'i am special' in big letters across the front and was about 6 inches thick. I totally hate that label now. Just awful, the time would have been better spent working on his dreadful writing and language comprehension or at least on the behavioural issues, but no, they made him proud to be 'special' as if it was something that would serve him well in life. He has grown up with such a sense of entitlement and arrogant attitude. 

Jcksjj's picture

I'm not really sure when it started to get to that extreme but some of the people here with older kids/skids don't seem to get what I'm talking about so I'm thinking it's been within the last 10 years maybe? Not sure if it's like that in high schools either or moreso elementary.

And yes I agree, earned awards and praise I'm fine with but not just because they exist. SD totally has the attitude you are talking about - she doesn't have to do anything she deserves things and to be put on a pedestal just for existing. Shes not even necessarily conceited in thinking that she can do things better or that type of thing l, she just thinks that shes entitled to special treatment just for being her and that she is better than everyone just because without there needing to be any reason for it.

Siemprematahari's picture

I encourage positive discipline but I also encourage consequences and positive criticism. If a child is not completing assignments, coming in late, acting poorly, etc... there will be appropriate consequences. The lack of parenting and discipline is the reason why this current and future generations are so self entitled.

"Constantly praising children, not criticizing them under any circumstances, emphasizing feelings, and not recognizing one child’s achievements as superior to another’s. At the end of a season, every player “won” a trophy. Instead of just one “student of the month,” schools named dozens. Teachers inflated grades from kindergarten through college: “C” became the new “F.” No one ever had to repeat a grade because staying behind caused poor self-esteem."

The result of this is the increase in narcissism and self entitlement that is beyond words. These are scary times people and the injustice that is being done here to our children is mind boggling. It's disturbing and it's scary @ss sh!t of what's ahead for us and the future. Everything in life has a balance.