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Sleeping Arrangements for SS15

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

Background  - DS4 told authorities that his older half brother, SS15, touched him inappropriately over the summer (when they were 3 and 14 respectively). SS15 never denied but never claimed responsbility. CPS and the county sheriff's office were involved. No charges were pressed but we were told to maintain supervision of the boys at all times. We have cameras and alarms up; SS was moved to another floor with his own bedroom/bath.

Current issue - DH is taking the skids to visit their cousins over the winter break. LOs and I are not going. I told DH that he needs to ensure that SS is not sleeping in the same room as the younger male cousins (8 and 10), per CPS and the Sheriff's office. Blow up ensued. DH is livid, because SS is innocent, he says. DH clearly still doesn't believe our DS4, despite therapists and law enforcement telling DH that he was deluding himself.

At this point, who's responsbility is it to manage SS15 when it comes to other kids? My thinking is that it's the parents responsbility, and that DH shouldn't be putting anyone at risk. But DH says that SS15 will want to bunk with his cousins and "that's that".

Thoughts? I have zero communication with DH's brother and sister-in-law, just DH's parents. I have considered talking to DH's mom, since she is aware of the case and to date, has remained neutral.


GrabitAndGo's picture

Yep, warn whoever you can.  If your DH loses his shit, so be it.  He's apparently willing to put other children at risk.  

tog redux's picture

Why are you with a guy who doesn't care who his kid molests, even his own child and his nephews? This would be a total deal breaker for me.

And I'd let the whole family know about the issues on my way out the door so they can protect their own kids. As well as an attorney and the court so DH doesn't get visitation time when SS15 is there. 

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

It's not in this post, but rather in a previous post I had about all this. The lawyers I consulted with do not believe I will be able to get supervised visits for DH with our bios. They lawyers believe that DH would get EOWE unsupervised. A custody order can stipulate that bios cannot be alone with SS15, but it is hard to enforce once all is said and done. And DH will likely lie and do whatever he wants. I wouldn't put it past him to have SS babysit bios. So for now, I am staying put until my bios are older and can communicate better with me. Its not what I want, but I think it's safer for bios for the time being.

Gimlet's picture

She knows that he will get unsupervised visits with their mutual kids, so she's sacrificing her own happiness to keep them safe. 

tog redux's picture

I wasn't suggesting he get supervised visits, but that it be put in that SS15 can't be around your DS. 

GrabitAndGo's picture

You know as well as everyone else here her DH wouldn't follow that.  He doesn't think his kid did anything.  He certainly wouldn't let some court order force him to keep his little predator away from his other kids.  

tog redux's picture

I get it - I just don't think I could stick around and live with this guy. There must be more she can do (first off, I wouldn't trust that attorney).  Maybe get the Child Advocacy Center and CPS on board to support him not having time with his father when SS is there - and when that's violated, then H can end up with supervised visits. 

MisplacedMom's picture

"When that's violated"  (because it is when, not if) could mean more than just SS being in the same room as the kids, it could mean another repeat of the original offense. 

tog redux's picture

I understand that, and I get the OP's fears and reasons for staying. I'm just not sure it's a realistic long-term plan (after all, DH could leave himself and file for divorce) and I hope she considers other options NOW.

bananaseedo's picture

I think she's staying until the kid is older and better able to communicate with her...which honestly given how dismissive her dh was about it, though not ideal is likely the best option to keep the kid safe.

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

I just talked with my Mom, and I ran all this by her. She agreed BIL/SIL should be informed, but Mom is worried that I will deal with a lot of backlash. Regardless, I'll figure out how to convey the information to BIL/SIL, or ask MIL if she already had a plan to do so.

But here's another wrench, one that had my Mom distubed. Apparently last week, while she was sitting with both boys, DS4 was working on his numbers and wrote a particular number that also pertains to a certain "adult activity". Upon seeing the number written down, SS15 announced to DS4 that it was "not ok to write that number EVER" and then laughed. My Mom told SS that DS is only 4, its just a number, and to please not make an issue out of it. SS15 asked her if she even knew what it meant and if he needed to explain it to her. Mom told him immediately that no, she is in her 60s and fully aware of these things, and that the topic needed to be dropped. SS continued with "but do you really know what it is? do you think [DS4] has any idea?" My Mom kind of snapped at him and said "Of course not, he's 4. It's JUST a number." What bothered my Mom the most during all this, is that SS15 had, what she described, as this surly smirk on his face. She hasn't raised a teen in over 20 years, but she was surprised by the ease with which SS15 brought up this topic with an adult, and how he wouldn't let it go.

I'm glad she told me although I'm not totally surprised. SS15 has brought up inappropriate topics like this. At the dinner table. In front of guests. Each and every time I've been mortified, ask SS to stop, talked to DH about it. SS15 had been getting better about curbing his comments, so he can do it. Whether he chooses not to is a different story.

ETA: I reread what I wrote. This is out of hand and I've been passive for far too long.

Gimlet's picture

Yep and instead of getting him help, his dad sticks his head in the sand and lets him remain a threat to his own children and the children of others. Something is very wrong with this kid.

hereiam's picture

I understand your explanation of why you stay but, geez, how can you even look at your husband, much less interact with him on a daily basis?

It is obvious that his son is a sexual deviant but he does not care.

tog redux's picture

I agree. I'd fight tooth and nail in court and report him to CPS every chance I got after leaving.  I couldn't even stand to say hello to him. 

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

But I have emotionally detached. I look at him now as just the father of my children, and not a very good one. I interact with him daily because I know the alternative of leaving would put my bios at risk. But yah, it stinks.

BlueEyez's picture

...or is in denial. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that Dads would thump their sons on the back whenever and however they "scored" -- granted, it was with a like-aged and opposite sex score. Too many pockets of our country still attribute bad (illegal) behavior to "boys just being boys." 

Please understand that I'm tossing this out as a possibility only; however, what if father and son are caught in a sexual abuse / dysfunction cycle? Is it possible that Grandfather abused Father or Brother then years later Father or Uncle abused son? These situations are very rarely a "one-off," and can infect a family like a mega-cancer.

  • My suggestion is to somehow get SS into therapy.
  • Schedule time outside ear-shot of bios and talk openly about it. First see a therapist on your own to understand how and where to steer the conversation.
  • Role Play.
  • Although many will believe it is a privacy violation, I'd have hidden and not-so-hidden cameras in the bedrooms set to motion and review them daily. 

Many predators NEED the shame and hushed mumbles in the household to keep doing what they're feeling compelled to do. Most (not all, maybe not even half) will not risk being caught, so please don't whisper...SHOUT about the consequences certain actions have for everyone, and be specific. 

The most horrific part of child sexual abuse in the home is that it tends to be cyclical. Dad may very well be treating it as no big deal because it's really a huge deal that he has no clue how to face (?) and more is the pity ~ and the horror.

Petronella's picture

Ugh, that's horrible. Why is your mom spending any time with SS15 at all? That creep and his idiot father would be dead to me. 

tog redux's picture

And to add to the horror, he's also failing to get SS15 any help and likely sentencing him to a lifetime on the sexual offenders' registry and some prison time, all because he doesn't want to see reality. 

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

So my Mom or Dad are at my home a lot now on the weekends because of this entire situation. And the reality is that when SS15 is there EOWE, he's not limited to a certain room in the house. He's free to interact with DS4 as long as there is an adult with them. I am typically always with my bios on the weekends, but when I need to jump in the shower or get meals prepared, my Mom (or Dad) will supervise for me. In this case, it was my Mom supervising. As disturbed as she is by SS15, its really DH that she's furious with and can't stand. 

With that said, I do get the bios out of the house for kid activities (parks, playgrounds, farms, zoos, friend's houses) as much as possible, because the less they are around SS15, the better.

Petronella's picture

If I were your mom I'd have you and your bios come stay with me during SS15's weekends. That seems a much safer plan.

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

...DH will fight me on leaving. And then he will passive aggressively go somewhere with our bios, just to spite me. I need to be very, very careful with what I do.

STaround's picture

DH needs to warn them, and obey the spirt and  the law of any order!!!    Not only is this the decent thing to do, but any further complaints, and you risk having YOUR kid taken out of the house.

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

Realistically, DH isn't going to say a thing about SS15 to his brother. I have a draft to my MIL, who is hosting everyone. Can you all review?


Given that there will be two young boys staying in the same house as [SS15], prior sleeping arrangements should be established such that [Cousin8] and [Cousin10] sleep in a separate room from [SS15]. Further, the boys should be consistently monitored throughout the weekend even during day time hours.

The Child Advocacy Center gave us this guidance, hence why [SS15] and [DS4] are now sleeping on separate floors in our home, and why we have safeguards in place along with constant supervision.

I realize this visit with the cousins will be different than the norm, given that the boys always want to stay in the same room. If the younger boys ask why there is separation, at their ages, I would suggest telling them that [SS15] is getting older and requires privacy.

I am unclear as to whether [BIL] and [SIL] are aware of the situation, but thought I would reach out to your first. With that said, if I were them, I would want to be told in advance of the visit."


Petronella's picture

This seems vague. Does MIL already know about the touching? I would spell it out more exactly what the danger is that SS15 poses to younger children.

notsurehowtodeal's picture

Warn your brother-in-law. Do it in a direct way and give him every detail, including the fact that you never leave SS alone with your other kids. If he is any kind of a man and father, he won't want SS around his kids and maybe he can have some influence on your DH. Or at least DH will realize it is not just you who is concerned.


tog redux's picture

Why won't CPS support you in getting a custody arrangement that allows for SS to not be there when DS is there? 

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

It's buried in the older posts, so I'll summarize here...

Basically, CPS will only intervene when its Adult on Child abuse. With sibling on sibling abuse, they punt it to the County Sheriff's office, and from there, the Detective in charge of issues with minors takes over. She utilizes a county CAC to do the interviews. But, all she can do is to recommend that the minor be charged or not. In this case, the prosecutor did not have enough evidence to charge SS15. It was a 'he said she said' case. So while the CAC (Child Advocacy Center) and Detective believe that SS15 was being vague and holding back, all they had to go on was DS4's report which he gave to the doctor's office and then the CAC.  CPS at that point could not enforce so much as therapy for either child, and the Sheriff could not enforce the supervision and sleeping arrangements. However, CPS left us with a warning, which the detective reiterated - which was that if we don't follow the recommendations, DH and I are at risk of being charged with neglect. From there, DH had the stance of "my house, the law isn't going to tell me what to do." I had the stance of "DH, you're crazy. Of course we are following the guidance. Do it or I am calling CPS back and a lawyer." So unless DH messes up, which I'm not willing to let him do, I have no recourse with CPS.

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

If DH leaves, then I've got the lawyer lined up already. I have everything documented to date, and will keep doing so. At that point, I will do what I can do keep my bios safe, but I'll be at the mercy of a judge or mediator.

tog redux's picture

I totally get your fears and reasons for staying. I'm just not sure it's a long-term plan, when you and DH are at odds about this issue. You can't possibly be having a happy and intimate marriage, and DH is so determined to hold SS blameless, that it seems inevitable that you will split up, one way or the other.

Petronella's picture

Sure, why not? Presumably you and your DS are named in it so it's information that you own and can share with anyone you like. 

SM12's picture

This makes me sick in my stomach for you!   How exhausting it must be to constantly be on guard.   I totally understand the reasons you are staying.  Your children and their safety come first.   It just breaks my heart that you have to do this.

I think you should tell your DH that either he notifies the relatives of the situation and separate sleeping arrangements or you will.  And get proof he did it.   If he doesn’t, call them and tell them ASAP.  How would you feel if your relative invited a pedifile into your home without warning you and your child was assaulted??   Please tell them if he refuses and let

your DH know you told them.  

Monkeysee's picture

Why would a 15 year old want to share a room with an 8 & 10 year old? That alone is weird. I know everyone has already said this but absolutely warn your BIL, you’d regret it for the rest of your life if you didn’t say anything and something happened to those boys. 

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

"[BIL] and [SIL],

Prior to the weekend visit, I wanted to ensure that you are aware of CPS involvement in our home regarding inappropriate contact by [SS15] towards [DS4]. Due to DS4's report of [I'll elaborate here], [SS15] should be supervised when around minors, and should not sleep in the same room."


And then just leave it at that?

notsurehowtodeal's picture

That sounds good - direct and to the point. I'm sure there will be fall out and I'm sorry you will have to deal with it, but you are doing the right thing.

simifan's picture

Kudos to you for sacrificing yourself to keep your kiddo safe. My heart goes out to you. I would definitely give BIL/SIL the same oppurtunity to step up and protect their own children. 

BlueEyez's picture

For what it's worth, here's my two cents:

I think your draft to SIL and BIL is great. I would also attach a copy of the CPS report/advice. edited to add: and have them sign it as proof they've read it. Make ALL adults accountable for all children's safety.

As it should be, your primary concern is for the safety of your children. SS also needs help. I have a family member who has worked many years with convicted pedophiles. Although impossible to verify, she emphatically states that while not all sexually abused children become pedophiles, each and every pedophile she has "worked with" in the prison system claims to have been victimized sexually as a child. Adding to your already full plate, the concern is protecting your kids from SS AND anyone who may have victimized him when he was younger.

Is it feasible to place camera(s)?

What is age-appropriate timing and verbiage for your kids about good-touch / bad-touch?

As far as staying in the marriage, you are a stronger woman than I am. I'd chain 1,095 (365 x 3) shower rings together (Hah! First thing that entered my mind) each ring to represent one day until SS turns 18, and unhook one each day - one day closer to "the end." 

Edited for spelling

SteppedOut's picture

"Until ss turns 18"

It will not be "over" when SS turns 18. 

BlueEyez's picture

...getting SS to 18 is a major milestone. He will hopefully be out of the house either in college or with a job, and he will become legally accountable for his actions as an adult. The "end" will be the end of SS's legal childhood. As a survivor myself, you're right, there's never a true end, but it IS possible to break the cycle, if there is one...

tog redux's picture

Or in prison.

I think her point was that this type of father doesn't make their kids be accountable ever, even at 18 - so he could still be living in their house.  It seems common on here for people to be counting down to 18, but a lot of these poorly parented skids don't launch at 18. They do poorly in school, have no direction in life, and are allowed to just do nothing.

SteppedOut's picture

Tog, you are spot on. 

Even if this kid leaves for college, he will be back. He will keep bouncing back when he gets in trouble and his dad will let him every single time (and likely will not believe the allegations and or convictions). Dad will likely cover legal bills as well. 

DPW's picture

I've read your story and I don't know how to respond to you except to say that your DH infuriates me and I'd love to thoat punch him over and over again until he admitted he was an idiot and took proper action.

I'm so sorry for all this for you. 

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

First off, thanks for all the feedback and support. Your practical feedback, words of encouragement and humorous responses are getting me through.

Second, I did tell BIL/SIL. I kept it short. Said that due to the issue we had this summer (one sentence of what those actions were), that their boys must be supervised and need to be a in a separate room for sleeping. All I got back was "What??!!" and then silence. I haven't heard a thing since from anyone. DH has not mentioned anything, and my guess is he is not aware I told BIL/SIL, otherwise he'd be fuming by this point. They might have contacted MIL/FIL about this but I just don't know. I feel that I did the right thing; as much as I don't care BIL/SIL behaviors, they had a right to know.

Ispofacto's picture

If it's any consolation at all, I would like you to know that not all, not even the majority of, child sexual abusers are pedophiles.  SS is an ahole and you have every right to be angry and never trust him again, same with DH, but SS will most likely move on to be a more mature ahole and start victimizing people his own age in various ways, at least then he'll probably leave DS alone eventually.  Though he most likely does hold a grudge from being caught.