Should I tell her?
BF, SS, and I had another of our talks the other day, again at biomom's request. She's developed a habit of calling 3 or 4 times each day SS is with us. She didn't used to call as much but recently it's almost every few hours. One particular time she was on the phone with SS for quite some time encouraging him to have a talk with us. We heard her coaching SS on what to say to us because we had her on speakerphone. She told him to tell me that he didn't like me and didn't want me to be a part of his life. She tried to sound sweet and caring for her son but it ended up just sounding bitter and bossy. We could tell he was very annoyed and upset about the things that she was saying. She talked how upset it must have made him for me to get him food that morning and told him to mention that to me, amongst several other things. She talked on and on for about half an hour about the things she wanted him to say to us that day.
So we sat down with SS and had another talk. We asked him if it did upset him that I got him food, which he said that it kinda did. We asked him why he felt that way and he told us that he wasn't really upset that I brought him food, he was upset that he was probably going to get in trouble when he got home because of it. I asked him how we could fix it so that he wouldn't get in trouble when he got home. We told him that we didn't want him to be afraid of getting in trouble because of the things he does with us, and that we wanted to fix things so that he wouldn't be afraid. The next time we ordered food, we told him that BF had ordered it so that he wouldn't have to tell his mom that I ordered food for him again that night. I could tell this was a major relief to him!
BF had a long talk with SS about "pressure", how there is good pressure and bad pressure. We talked about the 3 biggest people in SS's life and the different pressures we put on him. BF asked if he put pressure on SS, and he said yes but it was good pressure like "be good" "do your homework" "mind your mom", stuff like that. BF asked if I made SS feel pressured, and he said no (which made me feel really good). BF asked if biomom made SS feel pressured, and it was like a floodgate opening. The poor boy told us about how when he gets home from visitation she questions him endlessly about me, what I said to him, if we did anything, if we ate together, if we played together, if I talked to BF in front of SS, what we talked about, etc etc. He told us that she's like that all the time, and sometimes he hides in his room and cries because he can't stand it anymore. He said something about her occasionally yelling at him to go to his room because she was having a private conversation on the phone, but he didn't know any details and we didn't pry. BF asked SS how he felt about the pressure biomom puts on him and he said it really hurts his feelings. BF asked SS if he wanted to do anything to try to fix the pressure that biomom put on him or just try to ignore it for now - SS decided he wanted to try to ignore it. BF told SS that when he turned 13 he could move in with us if he wanted to, that that was completely up to him. SS was pretty happy when BF brought this up as an option, but looked a little confused at the prospect of having to have visitation with his mom.
The conversation really helped all three of us. I'm very proud of BF and myself for providing such a positive and supportive atmosphere for SS. We can tell when he is there that he appreciates the ability to relax and not worry about us questioning his every move. BF is not allowed to have overnight visits but SS always stretches his visits as long as he can and tells us he doesn't want to go home.
And now to address the title of the entry. Biomom emailed me several times questioning me as to whether we'd had the conversation with SS and what was said. She said that SS had told her on the phone that he was very upset with me and had several questions (which she told me what they were) to ask me and BF (which we know to be a lie because we sat there and listened to her feed him this bull#(@$...he didn't tell her any of those things, she was the one doing all the talking! [As a side note, that conversation let me understand how she claims that SS has said all these things - she talks on and on about me and how SHE WANTS him to feel, and he just says "uh-huh, uh-huh" while not really paying attention because he just wants her to shut up!]). She said she was curious as to whether SS actually addressed the topics that he "said" he was going to. I told her that it was not my place to outline to her the content of the conversation, and if SS wanted her to know, he would tell her. I told her that I didn't want to overstep SS. Also, in the past when I have told her something that conflicted with what he told her, she said I was calling him a liar. I told her that in order to avoid any misunderstandings, I thought it best for me to keep quiet about the conversation and respect SS. Did I do the right thing? On the one hand, I kind of feel (in a happy fairy-tale kinda way) like we might be able to make *some* progress if biomom understood that SS does not really feel how she wants him to feel; but on the other hand, I feel like it's not my place to tell her that and that is a conversation for her and SS. Should I share any of the content or results of our conversations with SS with her (or, alternately, should I encourage BF or SS to do so?)? Or is it any of her business?
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How long have you been
How long have you been w/your BF? If I were you guys, I would record the phone conversation and keep it for just in case she wants to take you to court one day. Log & keep a journal on everthing that happens. I would tell your BF to have a talk w/his ex about how she manipulates their son into hating you or just about the negative thoughts she is feeding this child. Your BF has the right to express his concerns and needs to tell her to stop. This is going to ruin this child if this continues. A lot of her actions is due to jealousy and not totally over her ex.
-happy mom
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We've been together for 2.5 years. I would love to log the phone conversations but unfortunately I'm not always around when she calls and I know that BF wouldn't want to do it. Not that he wouldn't understand the benefit that it would provide us, just that he can't stand to go out of his way to do anything related to her anymore.
We did keep a log of her calls for a period of a week at the request of his attorney a while back. The attorney looked at the log and asked, "Why are there all of these calls with the same timestamp?" My BF replied, "because she called 14 times in one minute." The attorney was flabbergasted to say the least. I think there ended up being over 100 calls that week. It's died down since then but she still does call much more frequently than I believe is proper (or healthy, for that matter).
*~So sayeth Nymh~*
i wouldn't say a word.
I am learning to keep my mouth shut when at all possible!
But before the 'boundaries' speech, let me say that I think that you are dealing with a sad but CLASSIC tale of the bitter ex and the 'new' wife/girlfriend syndrome. I was pissed as hell and totally distraught as the biomom in this scenario not too long ago. Even though I was the one who filed, it just about killed me to do so, and when I found out that my kids were hanging out with a new 'girlfriend' and her daughter, I though that I would lose my mind! (actually, I did sort of lose it for about 6 months, and went from a size 10 to a size 6 in the process. Then I fell in love, started eating (and living) again, and now I am confronted with a whole NEW set of problems (that's why I am here).
Really, though, I just wouldn't say a thing. Poor guy, he is suffering so much, but if anyone is to say a thing, its his dad. You are already the enemy, and she had no business engaging you! Personally, I don't speak with my ex's girlfriend, nor do I speak with the biomom of my BF's girls. It seems to me that there is no positive outcome in communicating with someone who has such an ugly and bitter agenda. Any claims you make as to how positive your role in would probably come across as high horsed and hostile.
The little guy (how old is he?) is probably gonna have to duke this one out himself. He is loyal to his mom (who wouldn't be??) and sounds confused and pressured. If you are going to be on speaker phone, I would make sure that she is aware of it next time (otherwise, it feels 'sneaky' to a kid, doesn't it)? Poor guy has a lot on his plate! (Yup, I have 2 boys, and I feel very strongly that they are put in lots of pressure filled situations. My BF told me that my 5 year old said 'don't tell mom cause she'll be mad but I'm tired cause I can't sleep as daddy (and girlfriend's) new apartment because my room is noisey with all of the cars and street sounds'...Hey, what can I do about it? NADA. My ex will live as he lives, and time will prove out. I have no recourse...the inevitable trade-off of being liberated from a very ugly marriage.
I hope that I don't sound too bleak here, but I know that I have no control over the situation when my boys are with their dad and his girlfriend. Similarly, it seems that you have little control over the mind games that your SS's biomom is playing, other than to hang up the phone!
My BF talks about how the biomom is 'contaminating their little minds' against him/us. But really, how emotionally evolved can we expect people to be under these painful circumstances?
With toddlers having tantrums, they say 'remove the audience'...ie: walk away. I wouldn't have another word with her. Treat her as a raging toddler (That was me, jealous toddler at age 35, about 1 year ago)! I would keep telling SS that you love him, love his visits and that you would like ot spend as much time as you can with him. Then I would ban these calls and e-mails. Contact should be about schedule, not emotional issues and such. I think that you are playing into her neurotic agenda by entertaining these calls!! I don't mean to sound preachy, but your relationship with the ss (and his with you) has nothing to do with her! You don't need to explain, justify or discuss all of this stuff...
Take what you wish, and throw the rest away, but it does sound like a 'fairy tale', and if I was the crazy biomom, I might have to walk up to your front door and puke on your doormat for all of the sacharine (sp?!) hokey-dokey feel-goodey stuff in your post. Nymh, I dig you, but I'm just giving you some advice from the other side--my past!!
Good luck! It sounds like your SS has a very devoted 'step-mom'...he is lucky : )
RE:
I've tried to ignore her but it is really hard. How easy is it to ignore someone who is spitting lies and vulgarities at you 24/7? Eventually I always give in and attempt to "set her straight". All she really wants is my attention because she's so socially deprived. She pushes all my buttons that she can just to get me to talk to her. It's weird.
My post was hokey-dokey feel-goodey because that's exactly the atmosphere that I want to give SS (who is 8), so in a way I'm pretty glad it came across that way. I appreciate your insight as a biomom yourself but it is not my aim to please her in any way, all I care about is SS and am trying to do what is right for him. He has to deal with the emotional stress from her enough - he doesn't need it from us too. I see his visitations more like mini-vacations from biomom and her ranting and raving, and I know he feels the same. That's why, at the end of the day, he begs us not to take him home.
Besides, her puking on my front porch would be a welcome change from what she has done there in the past.
*~So sayeth Nymh~*
i hear you!!
Its REALLY hard to ignore the venom. I think that its the only way to preserve any quality of life!! I hope that I don't come across as suggesting that by ignoring her behavior you are facilitating her abuse. Protecting HIM is the prize, but protecting yourself is critical so that you can help him.
It sounds like an absolute nightmare, and I am so sorry for his (and your) suffering. I guess that if he is open to speaking about it, no judge would ignore the 8 year old's feelings! Are you guys planning to go after joint physical with a 50% time share? How come his visits are so short??
GOOD LUCK (and I loved your response to the puking part--I can only imagine what has gone down at that doorstep in the past)!
Not mentally stable!!
So besides.....insisting that she is still somehow the wife. She is hell bent on turning the child against you..... She is really not balanced in the head!
Gather evidence.....keep a journal...get SS into a therapist/counsellor...not just for his own mental health..for your/his benefit down the road for court/custody issues. She's not EVER going to let him go with his DAd without a huge fight. You can't beat independant professional notes opinions recommendations in court! She can attend if she wishes...(I doubt it)....it will just document her unhealthy mental state.
It's interesting to hear stepmom to be's perspective..... I don't tend to be a jealous person...so I have a hard time understanding why someone reacts that way when a relationship ends. To me..if it's over its over....move on... (but I understand that..your head did what it had to...but your heart took a little longer to catch up & let go..I do understand that part. )
I know what your saying about the relationship with SS being separate from bio-mom, and having no control when they're with the other parent, stepmom to be..(I have to do the same with my X)..but this child is being damaged emotionally by this woman who is SUPPOSED TO LOVE & PROTECT him...... How do you stand by and just let it happen or just throw your hands up in the air and say "oh Well..its not my problem..its hers". As the other parent/protector and/or any responsible adult in the childs life I think we are obligated to try to mitigage the damage to these children!
I'm not sure how???? You would think the legal system would protect kids from this form of abuse.......
If we witnessed....some crazy women beating the shit out of kid physically..... NO Question what we'd do!! Call the authorities and put a stop to it, right?.....I don't see this as any different. We are ALL obligated to protect these kids!
So Nymh, Be a safe place for SS to express his feelings.....
I wouldn't say anything to bio-mom about what is discussed with SS..at this point BUT she will just turn up the heat on him and he will wear it 10X's worse!!! So it's a tricky situation.....the child needs help dealing with all this. So do you... (How to be a safe place? How not to confuse him? Set him up to be drilled? How not to set his mother off? How to protect him? If everytime he 'talks to you guys' his life becomes more of a hell when he gets home...soon he will stop 'talking'. What a horrible lonely place that will be for him.....
You know....I'm furious...thinking about this!!!!!!
My God ...you have difficulties dealing with this woman..and your an adult....how the hell is a 9 yr old kid who has to live with her...supposed to deal with it all.
AND SHE CALLS HERSELF A MOTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you guys are doing a good job..keep talking with ss..he needs support... His mother will eventually drive him away. But be prepared..she will make your life, your BF's life, and SSon's life as miserable as she can...because she is miserable!!
PS The lawyer wanted the phone log...because it is invaluable in court!!! Don't stop....when this goes back to court you'll kick yourself that you didn't do it... If he doesn't want to ...you should still continue...with a disclaimer that it's only a partial list. ALso make, daily or weekly summaries of the 'nature' of the calls...save everyone of the e-mails...
We ignored hubby's X....would not provide an audience to her antics...did not react to her one way or another. (At least not in front of her) .......it is a technique used to stop unwanted behaviour with children!!!! It worked with X!!!!
She wanted to meet with him, without lawyers, to reach a settlement...NO. (More games) Once she started the games...hubby stopped all direct communication with her...he would only communicate with her via his attorney. I had a freind who left a very emotionally abusive marriage...and he would call 2 x3 times a day...just to upset her..keep control/power..so she under advisment of her lawyer..stopped all verbal communication with him....work great for her tooo...
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I thought this was a very insightful post lovin-life. I agree with everything she has to say here...very good advice.