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Manipulators

Krissy's picture

I've heard that manipulators are good at turning the tables and making their victims feel as if they are the guilty parties. Even knowing this, I can't help but question myself today and wonder if I really am as bad as STBX claims.

Last night I called to discuss some "housecleaning" issues dealing with our split. We got to talking about SS's medical and that turned into me asking about STBX taking him for early intervention because I believe 100% that this child has something going on. Not sure what it is, but it's as if there's a wall there in his interactions with people and his general affect seems off. I cared very much for this child, still do, and regardless of the shit I went through over the situation, it was not the child's fault and I want to try and impress to STBX that this problem should be addressed as BB is clueless. Of course, that got turned around to me being nosy and told that it's not longer my business. Perhaps.

Anyway, so that just started the fight. He was so nasty and difficult and we said mean things to one another. I said that no one has ever treated me as badly as he did...that he lied to me to get me to marry him and then immediately treated me like a doormat once I fell for his act. He told me that I am an angry, bitter person and that I treated him worse than Bb did, even tho she cheated three times, faked amnesia to pretend that she didn't know STBX when her then-husband found out that she was dating STBX, had multiple abortions behind STBX's back and pretended that they were miscarriages, etc. But somehow I am worse. I cried, tho I am embarrassed to admit it. I brought up all of the things i did for him and sacrificed for him...and he told me that he never asked for any of it so I don't deserve thanks. He said after we got married he got depressed and that if I had been a better wife he would've been nicer to me.

I WAS angry when with him. I did yell and i did say hurtful things often. That has never happened with anyone I've been with before. I admit that I am very emotional but I NEVER had the kind of screaming matches with another human being like I had with him. Since we've split, I've been happy and serene and I don't feel that constant aggitation.

Yet, I am doubtful of myself. What if he's right? What if I AM an angry person? What if this is who I've become? If he could have been less hurt by a woman who did the things BB did than me, am i really that bad?? I want to think that he is just trying to place blame because his life is such a mess and because he always ends up alone and he cannot take responsibility for himself EVER, but I am haunted by his words.

How can you tell when someone is manipulating and when they are just being brutally frank?

Krissy

Comments

Sebbie's picture

NCP should have rights too!
The reason you can't tell the difference is because when a manipulators being totally honest with you he/she is manipulating you at the same time. Their idea of honesty is what they deem to be the truth(which is that nothing is their fault, as these people never ever accept responsibility for their own words or actions) further, to take the heat off of themselves they tend to turn the tables on you and try to make you feel like you were the bad guy in everything, that THEY were the vicitims in the situation. I lived almost 19 years with the master of manipulators, my ex could sale ice cubes to eskimos...He could make you question every aspect of life...is it really sunny outside? Did I leave the coffee maker on? I could have sworn I turned it off.How could our account be overdrawn agian? Maybe I did miss something when balancing the checkbook....and the list goes on .By the end of our marraige my ex could stand in my face and call me every name in the book, but tell me he wouldnt have done it if I hadnt done this or that...He took no responsibility for anything and still doesnt to this day. Beware of people like this because not only do they fill your head with b.s but they honestly believe the b.s the spew out of their mouths at you. These people are abusers from the word go ( I call my ex a mental masturbator, because of all the head games he plays) and consider yourself lucky to be out of that relationship. Understand any time you speak with this man that this is what he is...and dont buy his b.s about you anymore!!!!

evilsm's picture

He sounds EXACTLY like mine! I Love the mental masturbator line.

~Evil

Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall.
Confucius

stamina's picture

Thi is his way of bringing you down...making you feel bad about you...not being accountable for his slimey behaviour. An ex isn't usually the most reliable judge of their former SOs character or behaviour so dismiss him and anything he has to say. The sense of peace that you have when he is not around says it all...life is better without him.

evilsm's picture

are experts at turning the tables on a given situation to place the blame on anyone other than themselves. You said that you have never had this type of relationship before with the screaming matches etc. so I think he is just lashing out and placing the blame on you. Don't accept that! I had a terrible relationship with my ex. We screamed, yelled, cursed and walked away from each other more times than I care to remember and like you I have never had another relationship like that again. When we seperated/divorced he pulled every nasty thing he could out and threw it at me to try to make me feel guilty and I have to admit that it worked but I never took him back. I look at his life now and am so very happy that I didn't. Don't let him take you hostage like that Krissy, you did what you could and now its time to let go, he just doesn't want to accept that, you are happy and he is miserable. If it makes him feel better about himself to blame you then so be it, you don't have to let it affect you.

~Evil

Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall.
Confucius

Krissy's picture

In two years, my STBX never apologized ONCE for anything he said. Never, not one time. I always played that role. I would apologize regardless of who was "at fault" just to start a dialogue again and make things "nice". I cannot tell you how many times I humbled myself, apologizing when he did something terrible to me, just so that he wouldn't be mad anymore. Maybe after a while he started to believe that I really WAS at fault.

His DD that lives across the country, whom he rarely sees, shares my birthday. He had partial custody of her for about 2 years before he moved out here to follow BB and SS. He usually goes to see her twice a year, and last year, he wanted to go for her (our) birthday (the following week). I was fine with that--I really wanted to meet her. My mother was going to watch my DD and I was arranging to get a few days off of work to make the trip. Because he cannot plan anything in advance, the night of my birthday, he goes online to look at tix and of course they are sky high. He freaks out and tells me that I have to pay for my own ticket. Fine. Then he finds a cheaper flight leaving the very next morning after my birthday. I told him that it wouldn't work because my mom was not available to watch DD just then. He basically told me that he was sorry but he had to see his daughter and I would just come next time. I was devastated. He then proceeded to call his DD's mom and talk to her for over an hour about his plans to fly out the next day. The he talked to his DD about all the fun things they'd do and where they'd stay, what they'd buy, what restaurants they'd hit, etc. Meanwhile, i sat there on the verge of tears but I did NOT want him to feel guilty about any of it so I went outside and got myself together. 20 min. later I came back and he asked if I was mad. I said no, because I wasn't mad, I was disappointed and hurt that we spent my birthday with him making his plans for this fun weekend that I had been excluded from just to save $150. I kept quiet for about an hour but the damage was done and things were awkward. Finally, Id ecided to just be honest. I VERY carefully chose my words. I turned to him, said very calmly and sweetly that I was happy he was seeing his DD and that I didn't want to make him feel guilty, but honestly, I was a little bit hurt. I said that I didn't want to fight or make it worse, just be honest because it all made me feel really bad. I made sure to say that I did NOT blame him and that I was looking forward to going with him in the future and that I hoped he sincerely had a great trip. Well, he flipepd out, said I was just trying to ruin his trip, make him guilty, that I was an adult and his DD is a child and I should not be so selfish. I started crying and pleading and saying that I didn't mean it that way, I was just being honest about it all. I said I was GLAD he was going. He called me names and again said I was a cruel, selfish person. We didn't talk again until the next day when he called after his plane landed and I apologized. He said it would take some time for him to forgive me.

It is incidents like these that stir up my anger at this man. I know that life is hard for him but it is hard for me too. I always was and maybe sometimes I was too honest about that. I thought that that's what relationships were about--letting the other person know how you feel so you can get through it together. Obviously sometimes you have to keep it to yourself for the sake of your partner, but I believe that eventually everything has to be on the table. All I ever wanted from STBX was an acknowledgment of how tough it was. That's it. I truly believe things would be different today if he ever acknowledged what this is like for me. But now I am questioning all of that. How I think of relationships and how they are supposed to work. And if I am cut out for one at all.

evilsm's picture

Things will get better, you will get beyond this. It is very difficult and emotional to end a relationship with anyone, especially someone you trusted your everything with. You will begin to see things clearer soon and this learning experience will take you places that you never would have gone before. Don't regret your past, learn from it and go on. You will find a great guy, but take some time for yourself for now.

~Evil

Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall.
Confucius

Anne 8102's picture

...take to heart as gospel truth anything an ex says about your supposed "faults" when the relationship is over. You know who you are, inside and out, and you know the truth about you. Trust that. Besides, even if what he said is true, he's only describing the YOU that was in the relationship with HIM. It's hard, maybe impossible, to be your best self when you are in a bad relationship. You will probably find that you are a totally different person once you have severed all ties, and a different person still if/when you involve yourself in another long-term relationship. He's a manipulator and if you need proof, then ask someone who's known you all your life what they think about you. He wasn't brutally honest with you 100% of the time during the marriage, right? Don't trust his word now. It sounds like he's lashing out and since he's now one of those dreaded exes, don't listen to a word he says. I think you're great, for whatever that's worth, and I also think this is his loss and your gain. Never let a man make you doubt yourself! Most of them are just big buttheads, anyway! Smile

~ Anne ~

"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission."
-Eleanor Roosevelt

Imustbcrazy's picture

A big penis with ears... I was married to one of those...
HA- you girls make me laugh.
Daddys Gurl-

Life is as sweet as you sweeten it.

Cruella's picture

Not even a penis with ears will hear you. Don't let him get to you. He may have you questioning yourself but I know deep inside you know you are not at fault. That is why you are so serene when he is not around.

laughterandtears's picture

Manipulators say and do things to get someone to see their side and do it their way.

DO NOT let him do this to you. It sounds like he almost has you convinced that you ARE an angry person. Hon, I'm not saying your perfect, though I'm sure your as close to it as any of us, I am saying that when your in a situation where you feel you have to defend yourself all the time, you become angry and defensive IN THAT SITUATION!!! Not in EVERY aspect of your life. This is not who you have become. It is who you became with STBX. Since you are no longer having to defend yourself constantly, and you yourself said you feel much more peaceful, then, IMO, you have NOT become and angry, bitter person. You are well on your way to freedom from this insanity, sweetie, and you'll be better for it. Best of luck!!!

IF IT WAS EASY, EVERYONE WOULD DO IT.