"To Thine Own Self Be True" William Shakesphere

but is that anything new? Just tell SS how excited you were that he made it to match his bedroom furniture.

If bm needs a table, she can buy a second hand one and paint it-no big deal, I'd think. And it wouldn't cost her much.

Think your DH shouldn't leave this one up to SS. It puts him (ss) in a really bad position--having to say no to either one of his parents. It's pretty basic-you all paid for the materials, the SS obviously intended it to match his furniture at your house. End of story.

I never get that.. "Dh told her that he would leave it up to ss" Why do they do that????? It sets the kids up for immediate stress and angst, especially when you're dealing with a BM who plays the endless 'guilt-game'.

DH was wrong. He should have told ss, "The table is stained to match your bedroom furniture at OUR house. That's what we told you from the beginning. And here it will stay."

And he can still say that to him. He's allowed to change his mind even though he screwed up and told ss he could take it where he wanted. He's the dad.

BM can go out and buy her own damn nightstand.

And you don't even have to bring up the materials fee aspect- although it IS incredibly frustrating and just adds insult to injury!

"Of course things worked out nicely for Carol Brady...she had a live-in maid and Mike's first wife was DEAD!"

Would not allow it to go to bm.We buy things for the kids say like at christmas and have asked if it could go to bm house but dh says no it stays here in your room.I would speak up and say no he needs it at your house and it stays in his room there.If she wants a table then she can furnish her own house.Maybe your ss wants someone to say no so he doesnt feel guilty to say no to his mom.

I don't have any good advice here Dawn, except that you may just have to detach from outcome and let DH lead. Personally, I'm a sentimental person, and my fear would be that BM wouldn't value the piece and toss it later. But that's a tough one to know how to handle. I have in the past, encouraged SD to bring things that matter to her here, because BM is a tosser and doesn't care about sentimentality. But SD has become the same way too, so I now leave it up to her. But if your SS's mom doesn't toss and run, then I guess I would leave it up to him, hoping he understands that you aren't indifferent to the piece, are proud of his accomplishment, and would love to have it there, but it is his piece to do with as he sees fit.

SD continues to give BM anything she makes at school that she's proud of. BM who throws away all things sentimental and only values things material (and her love for those things wears off rather as fast as the endorphins that she felt buying them.)

For years, BM trained SD to only make one Mother's Day present at school (even if the teachers, who knew and liked me encouraged her to make two) stating "You only need to make ONE because you only have ONE MOM and that ONE present BETTER come HERE." Then BM would criticize it/toss it later.

Now, not sure if it's related to all that or just because SD doesn't like to do anything that doesn't come naturally, but SD hates Art, because she "sucks." This report card she got a C in art, and the teacher, who I know REALLY well because she was the costume designer for my college theatre, wrote "Needs to participate in class more." Meaning there was a way to get a B at least, if SD showed effort and contributed.

I tried to talk to SD about it, but she ran off like she does with anything we say that's not perceived as complete support of her actions. In other words, if you did everything you could and got a C, fine. But we're going to help you do better. And if you didn't do everything you could and got a C, then you need to find a way to work to your ability."

SD hates accountability (not news to anyone hear.)

Anyway, a while ago, SD told me about how surprised she was that before Christmas break she made something in art that the teacher liked enough to display in the class.

I asked when we could see it, hoping for a positive encouragement opportunity.

SD said, "I'm giving it to my MOM for Christmas."

I now wonder if BM reacted to it negatively or tossed it, and reinforced the "art is stupid and I suck" attitude since she got a C.

"Om Tare Tutare Ture Mama Ayurpunye Jnana Putin Kuru Svaha"
~Sita Tara Mantra

You know me and "choices".

You (technically) bought it, he stained it to match the bedroom set at YOUR house, so I say it stays at your house. Period. No negotiations. Thanks for playing.

"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley

and just tell SS that the table needs to come to your home as it was already previously discussed that that is where it was going to go and that is why SS stained it specifically to match his bedroom. None of this letting BM jump in at the last minute and change things. If BM feels he needs a nightstand she can go buy him one. That is just me though!

My DH and BM leave it up to SSons to “decide” a lot and I think it’s wrong.

Parents should make those kinds of decisions; it puts a lot of stress on the kids. I don’t think DH and BM even realize they’re putting the kids in the middle when they do it. I’ve pointed it out to DH numerous times and he’s starting to see that it’s wrong but old habits are hard to break. I think a lot of times DH has SSons “make the decision” so he doesn’t have to be the bad guy.

The table should stay at your house.

Would it be possible for DH and SS to make another one together for BM’s house? That way the original – with all the sentimental value - would stay at your place. Making a second one could be another male bonding experience for DH and SS.

Just my 2 cents

~BettyRay

________________________________________________________________
"PROBLEMS ARE ONLY OPPORTUNITIES IN WORK CLOTHES."
-Henry Kaiser

even at 15, DH likes to leave stuff up to SS...like if and how long he shud study. we see where that got him...i know its great to think ur kids will make the rite decisions, but theyre still KIDS and so they wont. make the decision for them!

"Given the right reasons and the right two people, marriage is a wonderful way of experiencing your life."
~the late great George Carlin

After reading further I see points on both sides of leaving it up to SKIDS with things. On one hand, things like studying, or following through on responsibilities and commitments could go either way. Natural consequences on grades work for my sons. If they don't get what they know they are capable of one grading period, they self motivate to recover. So far that's working. But when a kid is struggling or gives up? The parents HAVE to force it.

And I think the point about putting stress on the SKIDS is true. Which is why when SD's BM dictated that she not make another Mother's Day present, I didn't say a word. DH did, sometimes, when he thought of it. And though I wouldn't want to stress SD, I do feel sometimes by not expressing our hurt or disappointment can teach them that they are allowed not to consider us at all, and only to worry about pleasing BM. SD no longer appreciates or realizes that we are being laid back about it. She has only learned that BMs feelings supercede ours.

The best example I can give is how BM controls phone calls, even of DH's contact with friends and family when they were married. He took to calling his parents or brother from the car only, so that BM wouldn't find out. Then she would grill SD when they got back as to if her grandparents or aunt or uncle were called. When DH was in Korea, or Iraq, he would call and call and BM would ignore the call or tell him SD was unavailable, in the shower, playing at a friends. Then he could hear SD in the back ground.

This obviously continued after the divorce. SD was bluntly instructed by BM she was not allowed to call DH. If DH called and left a message for SD while she was with BM, BM would claim phone harassment if he left more than one message because neither SD or BM called back. At the time SD never wanted to call BM when with us. So BM would say THAT's why SD couldn't call DH when there. Finally SD decided to start calling BM several times while here hoping BM would then relax over there- I even encouraged it thinking that meant SD was showing she respected BM's feelings AND DH's both. But it only sort of worked because when BM did let DH talk to SD, BM held the phone and had it on speaker. They would talk for a minute then SD would abruptly say she had to go and hang up, sometimes before DH could say goodbye. Meaning BM hung up. Over a year or two, SD stopped even asking to call DH, because she wasn't really allowed to talk or if she did, BM would be mad the rest of the evening. BUT SD continued to call BM daily from here habitually. They would talk for a few minutes, full of "miss you" "Love you" twenty times, then hang up.

This still happens now, though it's down to a few times a week so BM can feign interest in SD's life for two or three minutes. We used to think that allowing her to talk to BM when and for as long as she wanted to, that SD would see that we were in tune with her needs over our comfort, unlike BM. All it seemed to do, is train her to have a fake phone relationship with her mother, and believe that her mother cares more than we do because she says she does over the phone.

Sorry to digress. But there is no easy answer. I think now that perhaps you should be straight with SS that you really were hoping to display and enjoy his hard work in your home, and that next project if BM wishes to have it, can be funded by her.

"Om Tare Tutare Ture Mama Ayurpunye Jnana Putin Kuru Svaha"
~Sita Tara Mantra