You are here

They need help.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

So I've written about SO's children struggling with behavioral issues in the past but it's getting worse.

His son is 4. For the most part the aggression seems to have stopped but he's going back to school soon and I'm worried it will start back up. I know it was really hard for SO to hear that is son was the classroom terror. It started with biting and by the end of the year the boy was a full blown bully. He was teasing, biting, hitting, kicking, and even spitting on other children. It got so bad for a while there. Just last month he told his sister he wished she would die. We've had a few good visits since then but I worry. He also has expressed that he doesn't want friends when I've asked in the past so I know things are really hard for him. Maybe he will do better this year but he doesn't seem to handle change well. Also hee had another poop accident this weekend though he hasn't had any since June.

SO's daughter is 7 and way to old for her age. She shows an extreme amount of maturity but it's at a cost of her being a child. She's always shown some anxiety which gets worse when she makes a mistake. However recently it's starting to spread to just being disappointed. She has complete meltdowns. Not violent but she will ball up in a corner crying for at least half an hour to an hour and there's little we can do to help. If she faces a real challenge she can't handle it. She doesn't know how to accept things not going her way.

We had two events this weekend that really worried us.

The first was on Friday night. Getting ready for bed she had picked their movie and her brother picked the story book. She was so upset that she didn't get to pick the book and just kept repeating she never gets to. This isn't true and we also clearly explained that the next night she would pick the book and brother would pick the movie. I even tried to get her to go pick the story she wanted to read Saturday night but that didn't help. She's never been so hard to redirect. This isn't her normal behavior. She starting to struggle with being told no.

The second was on Saturday. We went to a game shop to try and pick out a new game. They have copies at the store so you can try them out and after speaking with a worker we were looking at two different ones. While playing them together SO's daughter just got really upset to the point we decided to not get anything. She couldn't handle losing and was almost yelling because things didn't go her way. All we could see was taking the game home and her getting in a fight with her little brother if he didn't play it exactly her way.

My SO is concerned. We do our best to provide stability. The children know the rules and there are reasonable consequences. Things like time out or lose of privileges such as no bedtime movie.

We don't know what more to do to handle brother's aggression if it comes back. At his worse he would be in the corner 5 times a day. We do our best to keep them busy. Between going to the park and other places we try to get them out of the house for at least a bit. When they are home there is plenty for them to do but it never fails that he will get mad and that's when he starts hitting. He gets upset when they share the blocks. He gets mad that he can't take her toys. He starts hitting if he doesn't get what he wants right away.

We also have no clue what to do about sister. We can't and won't just give her her way. It's not fair to her brother or anyone else for that matter. It would also be a disservice to her if she never had to experience failure. I can't and won't cheat at Candy Land just so she wins.

This is the hardest part though out of it all. My answer to all of this is and has been the kids need therapy. Their father agrees and has requested that BM get them in. She is the custodial parent and when he has them no place is open. He CAN'T do it. BM though basically says "I don't see a problem" or tries to claim no one takes her issuance which SO has reason to believe isn't true. She doesn't want to believe that just them separating was enough to make the kids need therapy. Let alone all the other changes they've been through. We're guilty for some of those changes too.

When BM left their dad she moved them into a new home and SO had to move into a friends. At first BM wouldn't let him see the kids at all. He then got his own apartment and she started giving him 1 day every 2 weeks plus randomly leaving them with him so she could go play. Soon after that I met him. Around Christmas last year he moved in with me. So that's a lot to go through just on dad's side.

BM has also had her own fair amount of change. She's introduced the kids to at least 3 boyfriends. 2 of them didn't even last a month each. The last one she moved in with after less than 3 weeks because she couldn't pay rent on the home she moved the kids into after leaving their dad. They then moved again into a different home. During SO's extended summer visitation the last boyfriend just left one day while BM was at work. That same week sister told us that she was about to have a stepdad so that was wonderful.

The kids have also talked about how there were other men around that she didn't disclose when asked to as part of the divorce / custody work. They've talked about losing pet's because of the moves and people coming in and out of their lives.

We've tried to keep communication open on our side but I don't think either child really has gotten a chance to process everything that's happened. During SO's visitation the kids returned to mom's for one weekend. We expected that they learned then that the future step dad had left. When they returned though it was unclear and we didn't want to pry into BM's life. It's up to her what she told them. Even after the visit it wasn't clear what the daughter knew because she would start to talk about the other guy and sometime she'd just seem to catch herself and trail off.

So over all basically. SO and I feel the children are struggling but neither of us knows really how to help them. We do our best to explain things in simple ways the kids can understand. No question is ignored though sometimes we don't really have the full answer. Kid's don't need to know all the adult facts. We have no clue what is happening on BM's side. From my view neither parent is really ready to put aside what's going on to co-parent effectively so they are stuck in parallel parenting. It's calm but it leaves alot of unknowns. BM refuses to get the kids in therapy and SO can't other than taking them to a place for acute inpatient care which they don't need yet. I work in mental health and have worked with teens. If they kids don't get help they are going to end up like the one's I worked with but I believe it is fully preventable.

Maybe this was more of just a vent but I'm serious if there's anything more we can do in our home then I'd like to hear. I've read books. I've been on the support pages. I talk to coworkers who have gone through this but all of them had custodial and most the other parent wasn't even involved. I love my partner and these kids mean a lot to me so it is my problem since I'm choosing to support him in this. The kids can be really sweet and loving. I know I'm not gonna fix everything but my partner is just as lost. It hit's him worse then me because I can disconnect emotionally to a point.

Comments

nengooseus's picture

You are much more invested in this than you should be. This is your SO's issue to solve, and until/unless he does something, you will drive yourself batty trying to figure out what to do.

And I'm saying this from experience. My SS has issues that badly need addressing, and our BM refuses to deal with them, as well. We are fortunate that DH was able to force her hand to get a therapist, but to be honest, it's not helping anyone, when the only message the therapist gets is from BM. And even when DH is able to give his perspective, his observations are 180 degrees different from BM's, so there's nothing to address. We even did full psych screening on SS last summer, and the result was nothing because BM and DH were so far apart on the issues that even the teacher's perspective didn't help.

In our case, a lot of the issues step from permissive parenting at BM's. We suspect she has NPD, as well, but that's undiagnosed.

If I were you, I would focus on the rules and structure at your house. Everything should be predictable, to the extent possible, since it sounds like they've had lots of chaos. But be aware, doing that isn't fun. DH refers to it as feeling like a prison warden when the skids are around. And it's stressful for me, too, even though I'm not enforcing anything (I stay as disengaged as possible).

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

We have looked but our area has a really bad shortage of available therapist in the first place. I know this is true because I work in the field. Her insurance is really limited and those places aren't open at all on the weekends. Therapy is expensive and we truly cant afford the on going cost of them being out of network. Trust me he is continually looking.

We have many books on feelings including a lot by Mo Williams which the kids love. Every time something happens we talk about feelings but the son acts in the moment impulsively without thinking. His daughter wont talk about it when she gets upset. We know there's more too it but she wont open up.

It's very frustrating.

thinkthrice's picture

I loved the Joy Wilt Berry series "Let's talk about. . ." Of course Chef's kids didn't even want to read--they were and still are feral savages.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Thank you I will for sure look into it.

His daughter loves to read and will sit down and finish a chapter book in a day if she's really into it. I love reading and it was one of the things I kind of started. At first it was really just me and his daughter. We would take turns reading different books. His son wasn't into it but now he likes bedtime stories too. He's even brought one to me during the day asking me to read it to him. SO and I take turns doing the bedtime story but it's become really important to us all.

Livingoutloud's picture

Oh boy. Sounds stressful

What games are you referring to? I'd absolutely not allow video or computer games at 4 and 7. No way no how. They are already distressed and don't need more stimulation. There is no value in it.

Now as CO is being finalized could dad bring it up that children need therapy? He might need to tell a judge that they are distraught by divorce. Maybe it could be court ordered. I'd also address some development concerns. Do kids see a pediatrician? Popping his pants? At 4? Hitting and kicking and crying? I'd do a thorough check up

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

The children play select video games and honestly they do help because they have to cooperate to get through the levels. They don't get hours or just any game. The 4 year old has Vtech system if he is playing alone and all of those games are educational. We prefer Skylanders if they are playing together. Basicly as a long term gamer and as a therapist I've done research on games. They can be problematic if not monitored but have many positive benifits if parents are mindful.

However we were looking at new board games. I'm getting tried of Candy Land / Shoots and Ladders. Plus the girl is 7 and needs stuff that's not just based on chance. We were looking at one called Tricky Trunks which seemed really cool but she started whining because she couldn't get the parts she was going for. It's a grab them quick free for all type game. SO has talked about teaching her how to play the Pokemom trading card game since she's shown interest and it could be bonding time for them but until she can handle losing there's no way.

SO did discuss the poop issue with the doctor who didn't believe it was a physical health issue. The issue pops up when the child is dealing with change. We think going back to school has triggered this one.

When the child first entered school they did think he had development issues because of his behaviour. They said Autisum but that's a joke. Again my training and my nephew has been diagnosed but more he was examined. After a month being watched the teacher, therapist, and parents agreed it's all behavioral. It's partly the child's fault but when there's no consequences while at mom's there's little that can be done. The kids gets away with anything he wants at moms. She's constantly complaing about having to make him special meals because he won't eat, having to carry him because he won't walk, him refusing to go to bed or demanding to sleep with her. This is not acceptable at our home so it doesn't happen but she let's him. In our home he eats what he's given. Bed time is at 8 and we have NEVER carried him because he's refused to walk. Sure we've delt with temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way but it's not often because we stick to the rules We've agreed on.

They are avoiding court on their CO. Basicly they have been going through the lawyers to come to an agreement that will be passed through. Yes SO spoke with the lawyer about putting it in the order but since BM has refused it would mean fighting in court. Also a therapist would have go be on board. Its just not to that point yet that we could get one to agree and get it court ordered.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

I'll add I wish they would go to court BUT SO really can't afford the cost. The lawyer he is using has really worked on him with what he has paid and BM was using a family connection after being fried by her first lawyer.

SO's lawyer understands that he intends to go back to court and has provided him information on what sort of "evidence" he needs for it to be worth it. Right now it just looks like two parents fighting. No judge moves children just because "she doesn't parent the way I think she should" and that's what it looks like. The issues aren't causing enough problems YET.

Preschool doesnt really matter and apparently the teacher doesnt really feel she has much power to do anything since he made it a year doing all that crap. She told SO she understood and they try to work together but again it's an overworked preschool teacher dealing with other issues.

Daughters stuff is getting worse. Last year it didn't impact her schooling but I sorry it will this year. If it does SO can use that to help him.

Livingoutloud's picture

Can he take a loan for paying legal fees? My DH took a loan to pay legal fees because no way he'd not go to court with BM nonsense (spousal support amount issue).

We can agree to disagree about games. I have extensive training and a very long experience in the field (I suspect I am way older than you) and I stand by not playing video games with difficult 4-year-old.

But it's not the main issue here.

Is there a good guidance counselor in leu of therapy? Social worker at school? The way kids behave they might qualify for special ed later on and get social work services.

Overall I don't know how you are doing all this. Do you want to have your own kids? I'd have hard time bringing kids into this. It sounds way more than one can handle. You are a better person than me. I'd probably bail at this point.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

He can not take out a loan and it's unlikely he'd win if he did. Right now he's going up against a BM who's had primary custody of them for 2 years. Switching that to him already isn't easy but ontop if that they would be moving an hour from their current home and school district. He has alot of complaints but nothing enough to justify the judge making that large of a change.

He moved due to BM's behavior. She was impacting his ability to work and he was at risk of losing everything. Since the move he's gotten a better job and their interactions are alot better because of the limits the distance places on her craziness. The kids also see less fighting between them so him moving back isn't happening. The area we live in is much better and both of us would take extreme pay cuts to move back plus my work opportunities would be extremely limited. The one place I can use my degree I already know is an issue and would lead to burn out quick. Plus I like not hearing gunshots every other night.

SO attempted to go through the school which is where the was advised of what locations did therapy for children. The school can't do anything for son because of the program he's in. It is privetly funded and not exactly connected to the public school which the school counselor/ therapist works for. Unless the son gets diagnosed with an issue that would give him an IEP there's nothing they can do and even then with his age the services are limited till he gets into the public school system.

The counselor did meet with the daughter but since her issues didn't impact her school performance they couldn't work with her. SO did follow up in person. They said they understood and would keep an eye but until it impacts schooling it's an outside issue that a privet therapist will have to handle. They sympathized but aren't able to do anything.

I do not have children of my own so it's just me going into this. SO is supportive and our relationship is soild. Honestly the issues the kids show are "minor" enough if it wasn't for my education and work experience I probably wouldn't recognize them for the warnings they are. They are young enough it's easy to ignore but SO is present. He is aware of what's going on and the possibilities. He's trying to be proactive but until is gets bad enough he only has control of the 4 days a month he has them. Our worry is the impact the other 12 days every two weeks has in the kids. The fact that the son got so bad during the school year and that the daughter is now avoiding anything that challenges her.

Saddly I'm worried that's what this comes down to. We can impact the days we have them and we have to wait for the explosion.

Livingoutloud's picture

I didn't mean he needs to go for full custody, he likely woukdnt get it but he could discuss kids needing therapy. Or maybe ask for more custody.

4 days a month is nothing. Honestly if my kid lived with dad and was as neglected and mistreated as your SKs in BM house, I'd pack my stuff and go live close to my kid so I can see her more often and hopefully take care of her. I understand he moved away because BM is nuts, but he also moved away from young children, who from what you described, are in a horrible shape. It might be one of those cases of loving kids more than hating ex.

I don't see how these issues are minor. Sounds like a total nightmare.

I know you don't have kids but if you ever do I can't imagine having them in the house with these kids. I understand it's not kids fault but I'd be scared having babies around hitting screaming, who knows what, SKs.

If they are neglected at BM and dad sees them so little and apparently has no influence at school (btw it's against the law if school doesn't allow dad to interfere), then things will only get worse. Way worse.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

The school doesn't ignore him but she can have them refuse to release them to him on her time. It's not that hard to take an order to the office which she has threatend to do.

BM's behave wasn't just annoying. It almost cost him the place he was living and his job. She lives in a much smaller town. Like I said his options there were extremely limited.

Sadly we know it's going to get worse. SO truly feels that's the best that he can hope for because of how things are. Then he has something he can show the court. That she restricts his access to the children. That she refuses to provide care. That she manipulates things so he can't.

He is avoiding court completely because of the cost. If he had a therapist backing him then yea he could get an order focused on just that but she refuses to accept it now so if he pushes it then he's looking at a lengthy court battle.

This isn't over he just needs something to actually show a judge.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Adding that we have discussed having a child together. We've got a time line set. It's too early now anyways. If things don't change in a reasonable time down the road we will reevaluate.

His behavior in our home isn't the same as in preschool. He's been around my niece (1) and nephew (2) and he understands they are younger / not the same as him. He's fine around both of them even "letting" my nephew hit him without hitting back. It's children his age or older that he lashes out at.

simifan's picture

Your DH is a lazy parent. He wants BM to do the parenting his way. Seriously, your DH believes his children are at risk and is doing nothing to help them but whine that BM is doing nothing?

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Simi I'm sorry your situation didn't turn out well but you clearly are ignoring large parts of what I've explained.

My SO first off is not lazy. He is working against a vindictive, lying, controlling BM who doesn't give a damn about the kids having a relationship with their father. She has shown she is willing to ignore doctors orders to maintain control and avoid him being able to care for the children. Short of taking them to an ER or Inpatient facitly he can't do much since she has restricted his time so much. And both of those places would tell him he's wasting his time since things aren't bad enough.

He has spoken to the school which is about all he can do. He's speaking with the lawyer about what else he can do but he doesn't have money to throw into a lengthy court battle that will most likely end with the same results that his current agreement includes. He intends to return when he has a case to present that might actually go his way or do something to support the children.

Yeah he'd like BM to change her parenting because letting a 4 year old pick and choose what he eats, if he feels like walking, and stay up till midnight isn't exactly healthy. BM herself whines about the kids behavior and calls making demands that SO do this or that but it's odd because the kid doesn't do the same thing with us..... it's odd that somehow we manage to get him to eat the dinner we serve and get him to bed by 8 just to make a few differences.

Now realize that I will delete anything further that is simply antagonizing and attacking that contains no actual advice.

Disneyfan's picture

He really needs to stop blaming BM.

As the father, he has the right to walk into the school/day care and request they take the necessary steps to see if the boy qualifies for early intervention services.

Both parents are making the CHOICE not to do anything/more.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Again he did speak with the school. He was told no. I was there when he got out of the meeting. I also was there when BM messaged complaing that he didn't trust her as evident by him setting up his own time to speak to then rather than take her word. The boy doesn't have any disabilities which is the only way to get early intervention at his age and the girl's issues didn't impact her at school at the time. Since its school based therapy they first off must be in the public school system which the boy is not due to his age. Second it must impact school performance / classroom and or playground behavior.

The boy was tested / monitored because his behavior was so bad they thought he was autistic. Nope just doesn't want to behave. We complain so much about how poorly behaved kids put on meds just so parents don't have to parent and SO will not allow this.

thinkthrice's picture

I hear ya. Chef went to every.single.parent.meeting in school and was finally told by the school district that his opinion "didn't count" because he was the NON custodial parent.

I love all the CP BMs coming out of the woodwork proclaiming that NCP biodad is a lazy parent. Makes ya wonder if said CP BMs are also moving the goal posts continuously aka doing a "Lucy" with the football.

Disneyfan's picture

It is illegal for them to tell him no. There are federal guidelines that we all must follow. These were put in place to ensure that all children/ families receive the help they need.

You do not have to have a disability in order to recieve services or modifications.

For example, the behavior issues may be controlled by having another set of hands/eyes on him in the classroom. Having a 504 on file, will result in the school/day care being required to hire a full time one to one assistant for the kid. A 504 has to be completed by the parent and a doctor.

Once it is submitted, the school can't say no. It's perfectly fine for one parent to sign the form.

You are not required to be enrolled in a public school to receive therapy. It can be provided in the home, in day care centers, in private schools.

It really sounds like the school is banking on parents not knowing the system.

Once the school receives written request, they MUST ACT. They have a certain number of days to do so. The clock starts ticking once the written request is received.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

The child's behavior was evaluated by an outside professional and it was decided by all involved that the answer was not that the preschool needed to do anything different. The teacher aknowlages it is the difference in parenting. That when dad is present the son behaves but mom does not have the same authority.

The child does not qualify for 504 at this time since his issues are not severe enough to be classified as a disability. As he gets older he may get diagnosed but right now it's just poor behavior as decided by parents, school, and doctors. Even SO doesn't believe his child has a disability due to the difference in behavior depending on which parent he is with.

Daughter also is not diagnosed with a disability. When he raised the issue the therapist did not see any issues present in that environment. He was told to speak to an outside source but is not able to bring them to one due to mothers control during her time. Even then the issue isn't serve enough that the child should be diagnosed and she would not require assistance in school since it doesn't impact school. For a school to provide assistance there must be a need for it which has not been presented in the school setting.

Basicly neither child has a disability which is required for 504 to take effect. Neither parent believes their children has a disability. Not do I from my experience. SO feels the children would benefit from speaking to a therapist to help process everything going on and that is not the responsibility of the school. The issues are not severe enough that an outside therapist would tell a court they should order therapy so for now BM can refuse to provide it on her time.

504 does not impact privet schools IF they do not receive any federal funds by the way. Given that they did examine the boy for autism I'm assuming they do get some sort of funds but they did their job. Neither child has a disability as agreed upon by all those invovled.

Disneyfan's picture

There are ways around that.

I have had students without disabilities who have 504s.

Clearly, you are more interested in just blaming BM than hearing from a teacher who knows that the school can be forced to help that little boy.

Livingoutloud's picture

You can qualify for 504 without disability if there is enough evidence of certain struggles. But parents need to be really pushing for it. Either parent.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

As someone who respect the ADA I'm not going to promote playing the system.

504 is meant for students with disabilities as it clearly explains. The school already examined the child and all parties involved agreed the issue isn't a disability. This is not a child who CAN'T behave. It's one that won't. The child is a spoiled 4 year old who doesn't have consistent disapline.

BM is the one who calls SO complaining that she can't control the child. She wants to demand his father fix his child over the phone. Both parents are responsible for ensuring a child behave. When the majority of his care is provided by someone who treats him like a baby I do start to place blame.

Why is it so hard to believe the primary custodial parent / BM is the issue. We see so many cases of children being absolute monsters and the other parent has little.

SO has requested the child see a therapist. He is unable to make it happen due to her interference / refusal. Without a court order that he's not going to get without serious issues being apparent what can he do? Trust me he wants to do more but she blocks him and being the custodial parent she is able to do quite a bit.

He did what he can with the school. When the child enters the public school he will get to speak with a school therapist since behavior will not be accepted. A preschool in our location doesn't have the resources to do much more than put the kid in the time out and complain to the parent if the child is not disabled. I am a strong advocate for ADA related services due to my field of work. This child does not qualify. Why should he get speical treatment in school when he is capable of better. Why shouldn't we expect mom to actually tell the child no? To "make" him behave. He can behave in dad's care.

This isn't a case of a dad not caring or trying. He's not done but your advice is to get services that the child does not qualify for. It's hard enough to get them for a child that does. To get 504 there has to be a disability, it has to be recognized, and it has to impact the school performance. I don't know how your cases are getting around that but neither parent wants to force a false diagnosed. Dad knows it's not true and mom doesn't see the issue. Mom just thinks her baby boy is prefect and the other kids are all the problem.

Livingoutloud's picture

I don't believe anyone said anything about playing a system or falsely diagnose. Disability is not set in stone term, I know children on 504 because of asthma or terrible migraines. They have a diagnosis but not necessarily a disability. They do benefit from accommodations. Your SKs sound deeply disturbed. Now if 504 isn't possible if they have no diagnosis at all , then perhaps informal plan should be in place.

I have no doubt BM is to blame. Then no way she should have full custody if she is to blame.. Did he ask his lawyer if he can get 50/50? If there is a chance it would might be worth it to start looking into borrowing money for courts.

I know you said the reason he can't see them more is that he lives far. Well it's not that far and renters can move rather quickly. No way no how kids should continue living with terrible BM 26 days out of a month.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

SO chose to move away from her. Since doing so things have gotten better in many ways. He no longer lives with her interference. It has proven better for him and more importantly the kids. The distance means no longer being bothered by her friends. No more "Oh your here too" from her if we're out for lunch. No more phone calls repeatedly to his work demanding he "do something" about his son. No more fear of something happening to the cars again. I could go on.

They can't coparent and living in the same town close enough for reasonable 50 / 50 was only causing problems.

The kid does not qualify for 504. There is no way to say he does. You either have a disability or you dont. Severe astham is a disability. Migraine are disability. A 4 year old biting because he doesn't want to share and mom not making him isn't. There is no need for accommodations in his case. He is capable of better. He is better at our home. Not perfect but better.

Livingoutloud's picture

Not everyone with migraine would qualify as having a disability under ADA. You aren't correct that one either has disability or not. Similar conditions could be considered a disability in one case and not in the other. Migraine headache is an example. It's not that simple. But it's of no importance since kids apparently are fine.

Your posts are confusing in a way. First you describe terrible behaviors but then apparently it's not bad. I understand it's easier for SO to live far from BM but I don't see how it could be easier for the kids as they now can't see him. The whole thing is just very contradictory. Dad complains how BM is raising kids yet he can't/won't make arrangements to see them more so he can be a better influence. He can't afford to go to court, he gave up seeing them for Wednesdays (don't recall now what was the deal with that)

I understand that none of it is a picnic for him, parenting isn't easy, but his complaints just aren't going to change anything. He can't control how she parents (unless he has evidence of abuse). Less he sees them, more damage she'll make if she truly is that bad

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

No not everyone with a migraine will be diagnosed with a disability but you either are or you are not. If you have a disability for it to be considered protected under ADA or quality for services under 504 you must have documented proof that you have a disability and that the disability impacts your ability in the classroom. For instance the idea that Asthma can be classified as a disability is true if it is severe enough. If the symptoms are so bad that they interfere with a child’s ability to be in a “normal” class room without modifications then 504 will protect their rights to a free and equal education. That may mean they are put into a special “clean” classroom or even a special tutor provided from the school comes to the child’s home. However before any of that is available the child must be diagnosed with a disability and show that they must have the adaptation to the standard classroom modal.

SO’s son was looked at by teachers, therapist, and his parents. It was agreed that the child could behave and that he does not have a disability. He does not quality for 504 services and there is no way to present it as such. Maybe as he gets older his behavior will worsen into something that can be diagnosed like ODD but at the age of 4 he’s just considered poorly behaved.

I do understand how my message about the kids behavior is unclear. My SO receives repeated calls and sees repeated complaints from the child’s mother about how she is unable to control her son. She complains that he won’t eat, that he throws temper tantrums, that he won’t go to bed, ect. The child’s behavior in our home is much different but we see flare ups. Every child can learn what environment they can get away with what behavior.

My SO cannot impact her household. She wants him to fix her problems but how can he do that? He has control in our home because the kid knows better. BM doesn’t want to be the bad guy. She doesn’t want to tell her son no and when he has a bad day in preschool she doesn’t do anything serious about it. She wants to blame everyone else rather than holding her son accountable.

SO turned down Wednesday’s because of how limited the time was. If he did do Wednesday’s he’d get to see the kids for 2 hours total because he can’t stay till 9 since he has to be at work by then. He’d drive an hour there and an hour back to do what with the kids? Take them out for fast food? If he could have the full 4 hours then it might be different. But even then it impacts his sleep and with his job that could be unsafe. With 2 hours it’s just a disruption from normal for everyone. In exchange he has requested and been given earlier pickups on his weekends. He has also requested extra weekends but she refuses even though the kids spend the whole time with their grandmother.

My SO is waiting for something that he can present to a court as reason he should be the primary parent. Since she was abusive to him he is on guard about it happening to the children. Basically as long as she has primary there will be issues. Two extra hours in the middle of the week aren’t going to change how things are in her home and why should he be the only one to correct the children? Why should he do her job? When she calls demanding he tell off his son should he do that? Is that healthy for his relationship with the children? Is that healthy for them? Why shouldn’t mom grow a back bone and be an adult?

secret's picture

I can relate to a certain extent.

SS turned 4 a few months ago. In the beginning of our relationship, while a sweet kid, SS was a little terror.

Not misbehaving per se, but touching everything, interrupting, climbing, tantrums when told no, didn't want to go to bed, refused to use the potty, was picky about food, always told dad no, sometimes even tried to hit or spit.

Dad did generally try to curb this behavior, but was also a bit of a yes man. He preferred to try and bribe SS to comply rather than discipline.

Once SO realized that SS was not the one in control but that HE was, things started to improve.

It was hard on SO - he really felt like he was making his son hate him... he wanted to be the fun parent... but it wasn't working for anyone else. I'm lucky in that SO saw that, and did change the way he was doing things to parent SS more..."effectively", or in a more result-oriented way, if you will.

Now, SS is sweet as pie. He generally listens very well. Hasn't thrown a tantrum in months. He still on occasion tries to say no to his dad, but is very quick about taking it back and toeing the line because SO doesn't let SS get away with it.

Sure there are some things that I disagree with, but that's SO's to handle, and if it doesn't affect me or the household, or if I don't think it will become a bigger problem, I don't bother with it. If it's something that will impact us in the future, I discuss my concerns with SO and we figure it out...but we haven't had a talk like that in a little while, there hasn't been any need to.

Anyway my point is that despite SS's behaviors improving in our home, he's still a holy terror at BM's. From what I've gathered from SO, SS still hits BM, still has scream-fest tantrums with her, doesn't accept "no", runs wild in her home - to the point where she's had to put a lock on her fridge, a chain lock inside the front door and SS's bedroom door (outside).

We still have moments where SS will do something he's not supposed to do (like jump on the couch) and when asked not to, he'll say his mom lets him - which we respond with this isn't mom's house. We've explained to him that mom has rules at her house, and we have rules for our house, and that even if he's allowed to do something when at bm's, it doesn't mean he has the right to do it at ours.

It's been made clear to us, because of this, that the issues are not SS's - because HE knows what he can and cannot get away with, with whom, and where. The issues belong to the one in charge... in our case, BM. She can't handle SS. We've now had him full time for over a week straight - 11 days - and it's actually been really nice. I'm not sure until when we have him, or if this is a permanent thing... but it doesn't seem like BM is in a rush to take him back, she's been home for a few days now and hasn't even contacted SO other than to let him know she was home.

SO has also made it clear to BM that it's up to her to handle SS when he's with her, that SO isn't going to discipline SS for her, it's up to her to figure it out when SS is with her.

SS is now quite a joy to be around. Well, other than the normal annoying things a 4 year old does... but those things drove me nuts with my own kids, so whatever. Only so much singing old MacDonald had a farm repeatedly you can take, ya know? lol

Your SS is not to old to understand the differences between the homes, differences between the rules, expectations and consequences... it just takes some commitment and consistency on your SO's part to drive the point home with SS.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Thank you. This is very similar to us. The boy has learned alot but like you said there are glimpses of what's possible underneath. The poor behavior redirects quicker.

At the start of the summer we had a really rough night over dinner and food. The boy didn't eat then an hour later wanted cookies. I told him no and offered something else healthy which he tuened down. He came back 3 times trying to argue to the point he was screaming at 10 P.M. I stood firm.

Just this weekend he came to me after bed saying he was hungry. I offered him the choice of a cup of pears or oranges. He said no. Whined a little bit. Then went back go bed.

SO can only control his home. It feels like others expect him to manage hers also. He had to request the teacher stop using him as a threat because why should the boy be "punished" just by dad? How is dad suppose to correct two weeks of poor behavior in school over one weekend without being a bad guy? How is he suppose to correct his son when BM calls demanding he make the boy go to sleep?

secret's picture

It's a battle of wills. Especially that he is used to getting his way - he knows there is a breaking point.

Once the NOs start, it catches him off guard, because there is now a barrier. He will get worse before he gets better - because since he knows there is a breaking point, he will try to push towards it that much harder.

For what it's worth... with my own kids, it was 2 steps forward one step back for about 3 years - their dad was permissive to the max while I had rules. They'd be wild for most of the week then they would calm down and reintegrate into our routine... but by the time they had it, it was time to go. Ugh.

Livingoutloud's picture

I understand about having to sleep.if my DH gets no sleep he jeopardizes life of his patients yet my OSD refuses to understand it. She literally told DH that he isn't a good father because he refuses to drive 2.5 hours to see her and SGD on the days when he needs to sleep. He apparently doesn't need to sleep. Ugh more to that story. So I get it about Wednesdays.

Now it might not be your situation but it's very common for children, especially young ones, to behave better for NCP (or other relatives their visit) than at home with CP. it's not always because of horrible CPs. It's often just because that's their home. Even adults are on their better behavior when being guests somewhere. It's just very common for kids to behave much better for NCP.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Thank you.

It can be hard to get others to understand why SO does things a particular way. The kids aren't use to seeing him on Wednesdays. It's just not normal for them so they don't feel they are missing out. He still shows up for speical things at school and calls regularly. They know every other Friday dad is going to be there to pick them up and that's what's best for everyone right now.

thinkthrice's picture

Of course you do. It's BM-centric NYS. You'd rather see tax payers fleeced by BMs who are looking for a cover for their abdication of parenting--and a smokescreen for the fact that they hate their ex more than they love their children.