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Boyfriend's daughter's wedding

soccermom830's picture

I attended the wedding of my boyfriend of one year's daughter on Saturday. when I was being seated, his ex wife told me I was not allowed to sit in the first two rows with my boyfriend because I was not family. i was humiliated and very upset. my boyfriend said it is his daughter's day and wasn't about me. i didn't even want to go in the first place because his two daughters (21 and 24) never acknowledge me because their dad is always with me. so i had to sit there and watch him sit with his ex wife (who i had just met for the first time). i wished i would have driven so i could have left. he never stands up for me and thinks his daughters are angels. I'm over it and want to run for the hills.

wasn't that rude of the daughter to have that rule? i started crying after the ceremony because of this treatment - i was so mad.

soccermom830's picture

oh he did not attend the rehearsal dinner but we were there hours beforehand - you would think this detail would have been discussed beforehand. ugh it was such a slap in the face.

SavvyKim's picture

I am exactly in the same situation:

I have been with my partner for 11 years, I have always thought I have done the right thing by his kids, 3 grown up boys and the 'little princess' brat of a daughter. I always thought I got on with them well.

Saturday, she got married, daddy paid for absolutely everything, she did not talk to me about any of the wedding plans. So we turn up for the wedding, I could see all the family members being given corsages, I asked my partner where mine was, to be told that she had not got one for me - that was the first slap in the face, however, I put on a brave smile and continued into the ceremony, my partner's mother was sat at the front and she spoke to me so I sat down next to her to talk, his eldest son came over immediately and told me I could not sit there and moved me almost to the back of the venue - slap number 2.

After the ceremony, we went out for the photos, they all milled around together, including my partner and left me standing alone for some time. They then called my partner and his ex down for photos, leaving me there. My partner realised after about 15 minutes I was not around, then came back for me - slap number 3.

The final straw was when we went into the venue for the meal, I was not put on the top table which really upset me, I had to sit on another table with other guests that were not significant to the bride and groom, however, on top of that - they moved me again so my back was towards the top table - slap number 4!

During the interval, my partner came out and could see I was upset, when we had words, he could not see why and said, why does it matter where you sit? Really! I was fuming by this point. We went back in and they started the speeches, you know what, I was so damn p****d off by this point, I kept my back to them and only raised my glass when I had to.

My partner and I have had a huge argument over this as daddy's little girl can do not wrong. I put a quote up on a social media site regarding being not thought about, the little brat's older brother saw it and my partner came home and was livid and told me to take it down - I refused point blank as she needs to know how much she has upset me. We have been arguing ever since and I told him things have got to change, I am sick and tired of playing second fiddle to his kids, if he continues to molly coddle them I am out of here. She totally humiliated me at the wedding, she is either very stupid or very calculating - I think I know which I think she is.

My friends have put photos of me up at the wedding, I have messaged them all and told them I do not want to remember that day and got them to remove them. I have deleted the few that I have took and told my partner I do not want any photos of me at the wedding and will be speaking with her when she comes back off holiday, if she wants my friendship back, she will have a lot of making up to do, to be honest, I don't know whether I will ever be able to forgive her.

I have also said, I do not want his kids and their partners around all the time, I am putting my foot down - if he doesn't like it -simple - I will leave - I really have had enough , especially with what I have done for those kids in the past!

soccermom830's picture

I read about that on another post. that is awful! so you're saying if you get married and are together for years, things still don't change? 2nd is 2nd? ugh great. yeah my so's girls used to be nice to me and now are crappy. don't acknowledge me. it's so weird.

SavvyKim's picture

I always thought I got on with his kids, the oldest now is over 30, he was the one who never accepted our relationship to begin with and he is the one that saw I put up a FB quote saying how sad is was not be thought about, he called my partner straight away, I did not tag anyone or mention anyone, so I told my partner, if the cap fits wear it! We had a discussion last night and he said his kids will always come before me, it was his house and they could come round when they want, it is all my fault because the kids will now not want to come round for parties due to the rift I have caused.

Boy, if I had some money in the bank I would be out of here like a shot, I now know he will never change and I have no future with him. I am sick of being pushed around and bullied and I told him he should have married his bloody daughter, if he carries on like this, he will be a very lonely old man as no woman will put up with this for long! I sold my house 4 years ago, he has always said he will not marry me, he has degraded me so much over the years I have very low esteem. He constantly disrespects me in front of his kids, I have no where to go so need to get another job, then look for somewhere to live :sick:

SacrificialLamb's picture

Can you look for roommate options while you look for a job? What happened to the proceeds from your home sale?

soccermom830's picture

great advice Smile I really started thinking about that lately. now my 11 yr old is another story. ugh he just won't accept mom gives her attention to someone else. Blum 3

ChiefGrownup's picture

In same circumstances I think the best plan would be to call a cab and quietly leave. Boundaries.

TwoOfUs's picture

Yep. Uber it!

I've left my home or left DH in all kinds of situations when I felt disrespected. Eventually they learn...

ESMOD's picture

I believe the proper etiquette is for the father of the bride to sit with his date. Not in the first row. I believe that Emily Post says the mother and her husband are front row. her related relatives are 2nd and then father sits in 3 or 4 row with his date.

I understand why he didn't throw a fuss since it was a wedding, but they didn't have the etiquette right on this.

ldvilen's picture

Very few get the etiquette right on this. Heck!, I've even heard of SMs being married to their husbands for years and years and paying for most of the wedding because their husband was laid off and they wanted to make sure their SK still had a wonderful wedding, being treated this way or worse.

Most bridezillas and groomzillas, and there are many nowadays, go with the "etiquette" screw whomever you can to get the biggest wedding and the most gifts. This is opposite of what the only real etiquette should be for any wedding: Treat your guests as how you would wish to be treated. If you wouldn't want to attend an event where your spouse or SO was stripped from your arms and paired up with some other woman or man for the event, then that is not how you should be treating anyone else.

Also, there is no way in H- most SOs or wives would ever attend an event thinking anything other than: I'm going to be seated with my spouse. Because, they are married--they are a couple. No one would even think of breaking up a couple under any other circumstances. Wedding etiquette varies, even among experts. So, for anyone to think that a SM is making some sort of assumption by assuming she is going to be with her spouse is nuts. This isn't an assumption. This is a GIVEN that spouses be seated together. This is a GIVEN at any event. Very few SMs even remotely have a clue that separating a known couple at a wedding can even be permitted much less be done!!!

It is the !#$@#%$ A$$ who is thinking it is somehow okay to break up a couple--they are the one making the assumption.

ldvilen's picture

There is no such thing as dibs in weddings that I'm aware of, other than the first couple of rows being for family, and the OP didn't insist on sitting in the front row. She just was informed that she wasn't "eligible" to sit in the first two rows.

The OP's beef, like most SMs, is that her position as her DH's date, or in my case, my position as DH's wife of 15 years, counted for zero at the wedding, and, let's face it, SM's position as dad's wife pretty much counts for zero at most family events. BM and DH are expected to hook up at these events, and SM is supposed to sit quietly and mind her place as DH's 2nd wife.

As far as dad just going back and sitting with his GF or wife, I agree with you 100% on that. In my case, unbeknownst to either my DH or I, the minister came up to my husband just as he finished handing out programs and said to him, as the entrance music was starting to play, "Go take your ex's hand and walk her down the aisle." I agree wholeheartedly that my husband should have said "Take a hike," to the minister and scanned for me in the pew rows and came to sit with me in the middle row. He/we were both set up. Of course, he and I expected him to walk his daughter down the aisle.

Hikinggal's picture

???? DAD can't sit in the first row? Annoying. Why are moms so crazy about being "honored" at their kids' weddings? Dad deserves some credit, too. That's an insane "ettiquette" if you ask me! I am glad my husband's daughters' double wedding was relaxed and casual. I would not have enjoyed having to sit five rows back from my own husband or him being treated like a second-class citizen at his own kids' wedding (that he paid for equally). Geesh.

That said, a girlfriend of one year? I would have avoided going myself.

Thumper's picture

Well......you asked if the Bride was rude to have 'that' rule. No she is NOT rude. Her decision is a matter of etiquette. Something few people use anymore. What a shame.

Your rude to assume you should sit in the rows historically reserved for Parents of the Bride and Groom, siblings, Grandparents and so forth moving backwards ...

Friends are usually sat behind all the family and their spouses.

**I am not sure why you went to your boyfriends daughters wedding since they treat you badly**

I would have kissed my boyfriend BUHH BYEE and went to get a pedicure and have dinner with friend AND an uber of course.

So sorry your hurt. Time for you to ask yourself DO I want to live just like this until I am dead?

(no day dreaming things will be better---base it on reality of today)

SMforever's picture

That was disrespectful and childish of them. He really threw you under the bus. Did anyone else's date get sent to the back? What happened to BM's date? If she was alone, then she should have sat up front and ignored who sat behind.

Anyway, it does seem as though BM has not gotten to acceptance point about her divorce. I can relate...at my son's wedding I was ticked off that ex brought along a new date even though I was with my new SO. Weddings just seem like a genuine "original family" occasion and I remember wishing we could have just had that without all the new baggage. However, there is no reason to be ungracious, and that is where your BF slipped up. He knew well in advance you were going, and should have informed you of the plan. Sounds like he may still be subject to pussywhip from the ex.

He deserves to be told off, and it doesn't bode well for your future treatment. Tbh, as a one-year GF, you really don't have much family standing yet, that only comes with time, if you are willing to last. It does sting to be dissed. Get busy with your own stuff, have a full life, then these stupid insults won't matter so much. It will also help you see if he's not worth keeping around.

I came into my relationship already detached, having read all the stories on here. I don't give a toss what SO's family think, do, or try on me. I have my own brilliant life and friends, and he is lucky to be with me. He can be there or be with them, that's his loss when I am off doing more exciting things.

secret's picture

because mom's got the golden uterus, obviously.

My mother is not more important than me on MY wedding day - I and I alone will decide who sits in the first few rows, and anyone who throws a fit can go sit in the back. I want the people who love and support me to be honored by being in the first few rows - because they love and support me - not because I slid out of them thus giving them the rightful place of being front and center.

soccermom830's picture

well his son came up and escorted me to my seat saying it isn't just you - it's both sides. no gfs or bfs. my bf swears he didn't know but Im not sure I believe that.

Indigo's picture

Bingo. There you have it. Didn't Pippa just go through this with a discussion that if there isn't a ring -- no attendance at the wedding but yes to rehearsal or some such thing.

Family values, family choices & too bad your BF didn't attend the rehearsal.

I'd place this on your BF's shoulders & your own assumptions.

still learning's picture

It sounds like the son has more manners and empathy than his father. Just take this as a sign of what your future will be like w/this man. You'll always take the backseat to SD and BM. Pretty typical unfortunately.

soccermom830's picture

I would have called a cab definitely if it wasn't a 2 hour drive. I should have listened to my gut and not gone. hindsight!! ugh

skatermom's picture

Well, at this point, they are dead to you. Don't acknowledge them, don't speak of them. They don't exist in your world. Move on.

SM12's picture

In reality, you should not have sat within the first two rows. Had you been DH's Wife...that I feel is a different story. Then I feel you should have sat next to your DH on the second row. But No, You should have been escorted to your seat with the other guests before the wedding started and never assumed you should sit with the family.

sandye21's picture

"I'm over it and want to run for the hills." Atta girl!!! Something is very wrong when a man wants his girlfriend toi accompany him to a skids wedding and then tell her she has to sit in the back of the room. Odds are there were other couples present who were not married or part of the family. Were they delegated to the back also? He should sat with you.

If you live with this jerk make an immediate exit pan because this is just a short preview of what you will be living with if you continue to have a relationship with him. Don't settle for this kind of man or his priorities.

soccermom830's picture

Well he was in the BK w his daughter when I was being told where to sit. I think I sat like in the 5th or 6th row. Very small outside wedding he did tell me it wasn't about me though many times and will not address it with his daughter.

hereiam's picture

I don't care if they sat me on the roof, my DH would have sat with me (even if I were "just the girlfriend"), and he most certainly would never have sat with BM.

It really seems like someone would have mentioned something to your boyfriend about seating arrangements, so I'm not sure I believe that he didn't know.

I don't necessarily disagree with them, not seating you in the first two rows. A year as the girlfriend is not really that long, so I can see how they would not consider you family for this event, but I don't think your boyfriend handled it well, and that is what would be important to me.

soccermom830's picture

What did your SO say to you in his defense or by way of apology to you following the event when you told him how awful and marginalized you were made to feel?
Did he apologize and try to make it up to you?
Did he offer an explanation?
Where did he and you sit at the wedding reception?
Apart or together?

Perhaps in his mind dating a year is not grounds to raise you to family status?

no he said he had no idea. when I just asked him about in text and still mad he said "enough already." I don't think he ever apologized. just said when we got to my house - it wasn't about you - it was my DAUGHTER's WEDDING! ugh

when I finally came out after being so upset, his ex was sitting with his parents and he wanted to sit with her. I said no! ugh mind you this man never wants me talking to my 11 yr's dad. double standards!!

MissDenise's picture

From everything I've read this guy is a big ahole. You need to cut out the drama and move on. If he didn't want to be with you I don't see why he asked you to the wedding. Couples always sit together! I would have told that B that we sit together and taken a seat in the back. If he chose to still be rude I would not have made any drama. Simply call a cab and ghost that guy. You sound like you have low self esteem so maybe you need to work on that first before you date again. Ask yourself why you would allow anyone to treat you this way. Are you that desperate to have a man in your life that you would tolerate this?

soccermom830's picture

and no he talks all the time about us getting married. it's so strange - it's like action are stronger than words imo. his fb he always looks single also. I just need to run. i'll miss the good times but geez, I will never be stood up for.

ETexasMom's picture

Honestly this is a bigger issue then where to sit at the wedding. If he is portraying and giving off signals that he is single to the world then no wonder they don't respect you. Sounds like he's treating you like your temporary.

soccermom830's picture

I am 47 - he is 52 no - not really - but he has told me many times his fb is for his family mostly - along with the 300 other friends he has on there. haha whatever.

ChiefGrownup's picture

It's not up to the family or in laws or wedding planner to pass judgment on the father of the bride's relationship. "You must be this tall to go on this ride." Please.

"Proper etiquette" has one rule and one rule only: kindness outranks everything.

The divorced parents of the groom can each sit with their SO or date in the same row or across the aisle from each other if they can't manage to share a row. That is really galling to think dad has to sit 2-5 rows behind behind his ex-wife and can't sit with his girlfriend at all. Total bs. The bride and groom should be spending part of the wedding energy honoring their parents. Telling dad his gf hasn't met all their qualifications for membership in the super duper special treehouse club is the antithesis of hospitality and is insulting dad rather than honoring him. A wedding celebrates opening up a family. It is soooo not for hammering someone with slamming the doors of it shut.

ldvilen's picture

Hello. Traditional etiquette also says no sex until after marriage, that the boyfriend is supposed to ask for the father's hand in marriage, and that the bride is to wear a modest gown!

This is the year 2017 and not 1917. And, again, an invitation goes out to dad and his wife or to dad, plus one, and then once dad's wife or date gets there, she is treated like a piece of gum on the bottom of someone's shoe!! How incredibly rude is that!? To invite someone to an event, and then hook up one of the invitees/dad with a different person and leave his real date or wife behind.

In reality, this should have never been permitted by anyone with common sense or any sense of etiquette. Even in the year 1917. Back then it was all about making sure that dad's new wife's nose is thoroughly rubbed in the ground that she is #2 wife and his ex- is still wife #1. That is why it went down that way back then and that is why to this day some are still trying to get away with this rude treatment of SMs at events and calling it "etiquette."

ChiefGrownup's picture

The final word on etiquette is Miss Manners, Judith Martin. Not to mention the ancient rules of hospitality. Hospitality means when you are inviting guests YOU MAKE THEM COMFORTABLE AND TREAT THEM WITH KINDNESS.

That is all you ever need to know about "etiquette." Everything else is custom, fashion, or utility.

Under no circumstances whatsoever can it be considered "etiquette" to separate couples or treat a guest unkindly. None.

secret's picture

Your guest's date should sit with your guest, regardless of whether or not they're in the front row. Anything less, you're treating your guest's date like scum.

secret's picture

Regardless of whether or not the guest had a choice, the point is, the guest shouldn't have had to make a choice to begin with.

secret's picture

If Dad is sitting in front row, then yes, the proper thing to have done was seat SM in the front row with dad - it was a douche move make SM sit behind, and a douche move to put dad in a position where he had to make a choice to sit where the daughter wanted him to sit, or sit behind, with his wife.

ldvilen's picture

Since when is bio-dad a guest at his own child's wedding? But, we all know that mom and daughter or step-daughter-to-be usually gets to spend countless hours planning the wedding or contributing their say to it. During this time, bio-dad isn't even really thought of, much less his wife. So, mom and wedding planner and bride or groom come up with their own plan, one that usually entails putting bio-dad wherever they see fit, and usually without a heads-up nor permission.

Then dad and his wife of 10 years, let's say, show up, and BM and bride or groom, wedding planner, and officiate, all try to play dumb that they forget that bio-dad might have some sort of say in the picture and forgot that bio-dad actually had a wife he'd been married to for 10 years. Tsk, tsk.

What to do? The solution: Grab dad as quickly as you can and get him away from his wife or SO. Tell dad this is how it is going to go down, so he better play the role that was set up for him months ago but that he was never given a heads-up on big time or else. Confuse the heck out of him. Meanwhile, tell his wife of 10 years to go sit in row 3 or in the back of the church. If she protests, it is her fault for trying to usurp BM. YEP! It is SM's FAULT for wanting to sit with her husband.

I agree. What SM and bio-dad should do in this situation is tell everyone to FO and sit together wherever they see fit.

ETexasMom's picture

Then the dad will have to walk halfway back down the aisle to SM which will show everyone in the church that SM is not welcomed to sit with the "family" and of course SM will look horrible for making poor daddy sit with guest instead of "family" and then SM will be blamed for ruining the wedding. Just another way to embarrass SM in public showing she is not part of the "family" and blaming her for taking dad away from his real family.

ldvilen's picture

I just said I agree with you via "What SM and bio-dad should do in this situation is tell everyone to FO and sit together wherever they see fit." I'm sure every SM realizes that she is not guaranteed a front row seat. But, every SM, just like any other guest, should be guaranteed to sit with their spouse or SO. Yes, he could have walked back to her. I wish he did, and I hope in the future every bio-dad placed at a wedding somewhere against his wishes, does just that.

Otherwise, if a woman who has been married to her husband for 2, 5, 10, 15, 20+ years, isn't guaranteed to sit next to her husband at an event, and she has to question where she is going to be seated every time, and this is the year 2017, then we all need to avoid weddings period, and by all, I don't mean just SMs.

soccermom830's picture

actually after he walked his daughter down the aisle he assumed I would be sitting there waiting for him but his ex wife sat me (per the bride's instruction) in the middle by myself. the ex wife had a place waiting for him right next to where he was standing. it was all just nastiness on the bride's part. I was told by my bf that she wasn't positive I was coming. I responded it doesn't take a lot of planning to ask someone to move down. there was plenty of room. she didn't want anyone not family to sit in the first two rows for her pictures and he was instructed to sit in the first row. he was nervous I guess and didn't go looking for me and did what his ex and daughter instructed him to do - he did not attend the rehearsal dinner.

ESMOD's picture

You know.. I may have just a wee bit of understanding where she is coming from.

You aren't his fiance or wife. It's been a year.. give/take? Maybe she doesn't want someone sitting in the family section that may or may not end up as a part of her family.

Like in the future going through the pictures. Who is that sitting next to your dad? Oh.. that is some chick my dad dated for a while. This is about what she envisioned as being about pictures that would be permanent reminders.

I also get your feelings too. I personally would have wanted to know the logistics before I signed on. Did you get to sit with him during the reception at least?

secret's picture

why not? It's pretty normal to assume that you get to sit with your date. I also think it's pretty normal for dad to have assumed his gf would be sitting with him....

if I get invited to a wedding, and I get to bring my SO as my plus 1, there's not a bloody chance it would have crossed EITHER of our minds to ask whether we were to be seated together....

Oh - also - according to the knot, it says that the parent who primarily raise the child sits in front, WITH THEIR SPOUSE. If primary custody is dad, this means dad gets first row and mom gets second row. It also says both birth parents can sit in the front row, they can share the front row with stepparents... and that it should be discussed in advance to avoid awkward moments.

The knot is pretty huge in modern wedding planning... so I'd say etiquette from the 70s no longer applies

https://www.theknot.com/content/wedding-ceremony-seating-basics

soccermom830's picture

I never assumed to sit in the FIRST row - I assumed to sit with whom I came with. common sense. NOT for my bf to be seated with his ex wife like they were a couple! geeez.

ldvilen's picture

You did nothing wrong soccermom. It is just some people here are stuck in the 70s or 1917 vs. 2017.

ldvilen's picture

Agree with you wholeheartedly StepAside.

My philosophy now--Hey, do whatever you want at your wedding. Some say: It's the Bride's special day and she can do whatever she wants. I say, go ahead. Screw whomever you want. Just remember in the long run, the one you may wind up screwing the most may be your very self.

twoviewpoints's picture

Soccermom, too bad you didn't post before the wedding. I see you've been a member four weeks, but this is the first I caught a post from you.

The ladies could have given you warning to ask questions prior to the actual wedding. Your BF is as guilty for not inquiring beforehand as the bride (his daughter) is for not speaking to him about it.

How embarrassing to walk up to the front two rows only to be rejected. And yes, as your BF's guest and date for the event, he should have come back and sat with you wherever they stuck you. Mother of Bride does usually get front row, with Father of Bride (along with his guest/date/new wife ) is either also the front row or the second row. Some suggest third or fourth ect., but that's silly. He's the father of the bride not a stray walk-in.

I'm sorry you were treated so poorly, especially as with prior communication it could have been avoided.

ETexasMom's picture

How did he act at the reception? When MSD got married I knew that there was a likelihood she would do this so I didn't even give her the chance. I chose to sit with the guest and exit with them avoiding the family pictures afterwards. I told DH I was doing this beforehand and I brought my daughter with me for company. DH walked MSD down the aisle and then sat next to ex mil during the ceremony (BM died of meth OD 15+ years ago).

I found DH's behavior during the reception more telling then the ceremony! Soon as pictures were over and they bridal party entered the reception DH made a beeline to where my daughter and I were sitting at the reception. He did not sit with the bridal party but with me and only left my side for the father daughter dance. He also pulled the photographer aside and had her take pictures of me and him since I was not in any of the family pictures.

DH and I have been together 10 years so I'm not new to MSD she just likes to play mean girl and try to exclude me from "family" functions.

ETexasMom's picture

And let me add a post that has really opened my eyes to what SD is doing. Unfortunately I played into her behavior for years and it caused many fights between me and DH. I've learned now not to play into their games. When I let their behavior get to me and I try to tell Dh it makes me look like the crazy one. I have learned since then to keep my mouth shut! I do not respond to SD. I do not take the bait and I do not engage with her. Therefor DH has to strictly deal with her. Since that time she can no longer run to DH and complain how sensitive I am or how I'm crazy blowing things out of proportion.

This post helps explain it alot! https://www.steptalk.org/node/61081

Rags's picture

I would have ignored the XW and sat next to the BF. End of story. If XW took exception to that ... too F-in bad.

ldvilen's picture

I'm really glad you're giving this advice, because you've just given permission to all divorced dad's with children, to just say FO to any of their wedding plans or BM plans for seating arrangements, and for DH to go sit with his wife or girlfriend no matter what has been concocted. I actually do think that is good advice.

soccermom830's picture

haha believe me I tried!! the whole family was in on it. I was told for pictures - only family. makes no sense to me. of the audience? he didn't see me. and his ex was right behind him and made sure she saved him a seat. witch.

ldvilen's picture

I agree in this case, it was OK for the girlfriend not to be included in pictures, although I don't think she was all concerned about that. SS's girlfriend of two months, for example, probably would not have been in any pictures either, other than candid ones.

BUT, I was married to my DH for 15 years and, heck!, I've heard of SMs being married to their husbands for even longer, not being "permitted" to be in any pictures. Hell, my DH even asked his son to take some pictures of him and I with the bride and groom. And, when my DH asked for them later, his son refused. Yep, Uncle Harry's mail-order bride of two weeks, I'm sure, would have been included in any family pictures along with him. Even in that case, it would have been considered rude not to have included Uncle Harry's spouse. BUT, dad's wife of 15 years--nope!

BTW, DH and I were married longer than he and his ex- were, and both of us contributed funds to the wedding. Didn't matter or count for anything. That is why I say what I say below, trying to save many a SM the heartache I went thru. Either go playing the role everyone expects you to to the max. (maybe you'd even want to get a boob job prior and wear the lowest cut gown you can find); or, avoid the whole thing and plan a spa day for yourself.

TexasPickles's picture

Now you have a glimpse into your future with this man. His ex wife and daughters will determine your place, and he will support them instead of you. Good luck!

CANYOUHELP's picture

I'm ready for a trade-in too, but it will have to be a 3/1. Yeah, I with Acra...your Dad does not deserve it!

ItsGrowingOld's picture

"He is single, owns his own hobby farm, loves the outdoors and pie, still works part time at 73 to keep himself "off the streets and outta the gangs" as he puts it."

I think I love your dad Smile

Hikinggal's picture

It's not about front row seating, it's about treating people with respect. Dads being forced to "move to the back" because he has moved on from his ex and brings someone else when the mother and HER new man can be up front? I don't get that kind of antiquated thinking. Broken families are the norm -- a dad and his date shouldn't be treated like crap.

It's the fact there is a need for this whole "hierarchy" junk in the first place at weddings.

ldvilen's picture

Very few SMs demand front row seating. They may demand to sit with their DH, but that is not demanding front row seating. That is demanding what should be a given--that you get to sit with your spouse at any event. It's a pity that SMs would even have to demand such a thing. SS's girlfriend of two months gets to sit with him and gets treated almost like an honored guest. But, SM, who has been married to her husband/dad for 15 years, has to DEMAND to sit with her husband.

ldvilen's picture

Hey, like I said above, I'm really glad you're giving this advice, because you've just given permission to all divorced dad's with children, to just say FO to any of their wedding plans or BM plans for seating arrangements, and for DH to go sit with his wife or girlfriend no matter what has been concocted. I actually do think that is good advice.

Hikinggal's picture

Dads do need that pamphlet because a lot of the times they just want to make sure everyone is happy and don't always want to cause waves. Luckily for me, my husband is not afraid to cause waves and has always made it evident we are a TEAM, he and I. I am very PRO Dad, having no kids of myself maybe makes me even more so, but I see dads getting the shaft a lot, even the involved, contributing ones. Mom gets the REAL HOLIDAY, Dad gets December 12. That kind of thing. We don't mind, though - we enjoy our own life, so be it. Smile But his daughters treat us all with respect and do try to be as equal as possible. Mom will try to flex her muscles, show her presence sometimes but it is NOTHING like the horrors I have read on this board. Phew.

But, yeah -- Dads matter, too. (and if they have a date OR wife, she matters along with dad because she matters TO dad). Respect.

soccermom830's picture

exactly. Smile I agree wholeheartedly. he's always saying his girls just want him to be happy but I don't see that by treating me with disrespect by acting like I don't exist and upsetting me. I need to learn to just ignore them the same I guess. he wants me to try harder and see them more - I want to be around them less now. in fact, I won't subject myself.

Hikinggal's picture

Absolutely Dad, as the parent, should be in the front. If Steps are not allowed in the front, then the Bio Mom's man is also not allowed in the front.

secret's picture

Etiquette states that mom and dad, if divorced, CAN both sit in front row.

Straight from Martha Stewart's website.

It ALSO says that if the parents are remarried, dad and his wife should sit behind mom's row.

Who cares what etiquette says. The bride can do whatever the hell she wants.

But....

Regardless of where dad is sitting - his wife should be sitting with him. If he's in the first row, so should his wife be.

They're not demanding SM gets front row - they're demanding SM gets to sit with Dad if dad is in front row.

If dad isn't sitting in the front row, why the heck would they want SM to be in the front row? They's STILL want SM to SIT WITH DAD.

Hikinggal's picture

Right.

I also question the women who believe the Bio-Mom's new mate gets to sit with HER but the DAD's new mate has to take it to the back? It's because the BioMom is petty and jealous. Point Blank.

CANYOUHELP's picture

At least the SM might attend out of respect or, alternatively, SM stops attending out of disrespect; there are only two choices the SM can make.

Hikinggal's picture

Not to sway off topic, but I don't get this whole "wedding ettiquette" crap. Why is the mother of the bride allowed in the first row with her new husband but the father of the bride not with his new wife? That is crazy. Again, just thankful my step daughters treat us all equal and their mom not insanely jealous. Phew!

soccermom830's picture

and I came to sit with my DATE. I don't care who he was. not to watch him be seated with his ex wife like they were married. completely wrong.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

I hope DH's daughter and stepdaughter get married at the freaking courthouse. ANYTHING to avoid spending a single second around that skank, BioHo.

Rags's picture

My issue is with the toxic behavior that the BM dealt. IMHO once your BF took his seat you should have moved to his side. Who cares if BM takes exception? The Bride likely would not have even noticed since she was facing the front of the Church and would have been focused on other things when she and her groom turned around to exit. If BM would have vented to the bride later and that pissed off the bride... that is on BM not on you.

If the relationship is durable then you are potentially in pics and videos and if the relationship is not durable... it makes no difference to you anyway.

Do what you want to do next time and BM can go F herself. Don't let her toxic crap move you to tears. The next big event be radiant, beam your happiness, and be front and center on your BF's arm.

soccermom830's picture

well everyone was saying she was only doing what her daughter told her to do. I told her I was sitting with him more than once and she had her son come up to me and tell me no too. the bride was pretty firm on that. my bf doesn't see it as he was disrespected at all. he never sees his daughters as doing anything wrong. it's unfortunate for me. I don't think any of the family saw her etiquette disgraceful at all. sad.

Rags's picture

"I told her I was sitting with him more than once" and here in lies the mistake I think. Better to not have said a word and just done it.

As the saying goes, it is far easier apologize for forgiveness than to beg for permission. They can't say no to something they don't know about until it is too late.

This should be a lesson learned. Don't give them warning and don't comply with their directives when they make them unless that action is what you want to do. Be front and center as your SO's partner and let them grumble and gnash their teeth if need be. He and you are the only ones who matter IMHO.

Disneyfan's picture

Rags, that line of thinking will only work if you are dealing with timid, passive people who will sit back and grunt and grumble, If you're are dealing with in your face type of folks, they wouldn't think twice about removing someone who pulled the stunt you suggested.

You don't get to do whwt the heck you want to do at someone else's event. Now that doesn't mean you sit back and let folks disrespect you either. I just don't understand sitting around and allowing yourself to be disrespected. Get up and walk out.

ldvilen's picture

Yep, SS can have his girlfriend of two months sit with him up front, and Uncle Harry can have his mail-order bride of two weeks sit with him in the family section. BUT, not DH. He can't sit with his wife or SO.

And, really, if your relationship, either as a SO or wife to your husband isn't going to be respected at the wedding, why do you have to respect theirs? Everyone knows couples are seated together at events, especially married couples. I don't care who you are. If you and your date aren't seated together, one or both of you get up and move so you can sit together. If anyone "protests," tell them, "see ya!"

SacrificialLamb's picture

Nothing like a wedding post to cause an explosion of comments in a short period of time. Tomorrow's topic: "Estate Planning - Who Get's What?" Wink

I, SacrificialLamb, hereby proclaim that if YSD ever remarries, I will message my good wishes but stay home scooping cat litter. I could find out every detail about the wedding ahead of time, but it would not end well with OSD being in attendance.

ldvilen's picture

PLS! No one wants to attend a wedding, if they can't sit with their date, whether that be as a SO of two months or wife of 15 years. Dates are always seated together at events, even weddings. The only exception is with SM. Why? Because how dare anyone put poor BM through that humiliation. BM could have screwed every one of her ex's besties while she and her ex were still married, and BM could be on her fourth husband. But, it is just so humiliating for BM to see her ex- finally be happy and involved with some other woman years after their divorce. How dare he!? We all know after the divorce, BM is and always will be wife #1. So if DH's wife or SO shows up, she gets to sit alone in the third row next to Aunt Sally, even if DH and his wife have been married for 15 years. SS can have his girlfriend of two months sit with him up front, and Uncle Harry can have his mail-order bride of two weeks sit with him in the family section. BUT, not DH. He can't sit with his wife or SO.

And, Yes, I will be avoiding all weddings in the future no matter whom the invite is coming from. Too many pig brides and grooms out there who think it is okay to do whatever THEY want. Guests aren't guests. They are more or less humans being held hostage for 2-4+ hours for money and gifts. Like I said above, some say: It's the Bride's special day and she can do whatever she wants. I say, go ahead. Screw whomever you want. Just remember in the long run, the one you may wind up screwing the most may be your very self. Fine and done.

soccermom830's picture

LOL Idvilen - I like you!!! ha yes, bride's mother was alone - end of story. she wanted to prove her place to me I'm sure. I would have just sat in the third row but I was escorted where to sit by bride's brother "with his friends" somewhere in the middle. whatever.

ldvilen's picture

This is reminding me of the case where SM and bio-dad raised the daughter for years. The daughter's BM was deceased when the daughter was around 3-4, I think. Anyway, at the wedding, this daughter actually had bio-dad sitting up front with a picture of BM in the seat next to him, while SM, the woman who actually raised and cared for the daughter for decades, had to sit 1-2 rows back, I think, or something like that. If I remember right, they even ran film footage of BM up front.

Now, I get memorials at wedding, because I had one at my own, but I doubt anyone other than maybe BM's relatives enjoyed attending this wedding/funeral rehash. BM had long since passed and still got to control some of the seating arrangements. Not directly of course, but indirectly. At least bio-dad got a heads-up on it. He had to work very had to convince SM to even attend, that's for sure. It was clear bio-dad wasn't happy with the set up either.

sandye21's picture

Yes, I remember this. There was also a post about a SD who insisted on memorializing her BM at her cousins wedding. Even more ridiculous. You wrote in another response to this post that "guests are not guests" and many weddings seem like (in other words) a 'cash and grab' promotion. I thoroughly agree. All 'guests' are expected to make a purchase from a 'gift registry'. The SM drama is amplified when SM is expected to pay for part of the wedding but is expected to sit where she is 'instructed' - and not to be in any of the pictures. I get the same sense of dread when I go to a Tupperware or Princess House Party of a 'friend' - where you feel 'shamed' if you don't make a purchase of a something that will sit in the back of a cupboard for 20 years.

Rags's picture

In divorce situations I think the solution to who sits where at a wedding should be purely financial. Who paid for the wedding and to support the bride or groom gets to sit where they want including in the front row..... The less financial support provided.... the farther back someone sits. If that puts a deadbeat mom or dad in the parking lot.... so be it.

Easy, fact based, non-emotional, difficult to manipulate. The perfect solution IMHO. }:)

Rags's picture

SA,

I was joking... mostly.

Think how much fun you and your DH would have with the financial seating model. Wink

With the financial seating model... the BM in your situation would not have even gotten a visa to get the country for a Skid wedding.

Disneyfan's picture

I don't believe gifts should come with strings attached. However, that is not the case when someone is spending major bucks on a wedding. When you add your money to the pot, you get a say in how things will play out.

In my circle, the wedding is not the gift. Parents to pay for or help pay for weddings will also give a gift. I can't imagine accepting that kindmoney for someone, then telling them to zip it because their wishes do not matter. If I didn't agree with them, I would simply return their cash.

ldvilen's picture

"When you add your money to the pot, you get a say in how things will play out." Heck, in my situation, DH and I sure didn't. But, I like your idea about asking them to return the cash, or maybe I should ask them to return both of their weddings rings. That was one of several things either my DH or I paid for at his SD's wedding.

ldvilen's picture

Again, both my husband and I, separately contributed funds to his daughter's wedding, and it made zero difference. Again, if there is some sort of plan to separate a couple or invitees to a wedding or any event, since this is clearly the exception and not the rule, whomever is doing the inviting, it is that person's responsibility to give the heads-up to all parties involved. No one should have to clarify that them and their wife of 10 years, for example, will be sitting together.

Acratopotes's picture

seeing this has been going on for 2 days now...

I have a question...

Why can't people sit where ever they want? We leave the first row open for parents of the couple... regardless if they are still married or not, I've never seen a step parent taking dips on the first row, ..... it's simply common decency

Reception, people sit where ever they want, there's no pre arranged seating schedule... If parents are divorces they do not sit at the bridal table.... only if they are still together.... thus if one set of parents can not sit with the bridal table the other set of parents automatically falls away from this table... then they sit where they want.

Acratopotes's picture

first row only reserved for parents, they do not have to sit there....

the second wives and husbands sits where ever they want, and in this case where the father walked down the isle with his daughter, he simply goes and sit with his new partner and not in the first row... it's just how we do it on Mars, no fights nothing (maybe people fight at home lol)

Our people do not care about seating plans,.... you can work out as much as you want, they will ignore it and sit where ever they want, and keep on swapping tables... it's a nightmare to find some one at a wedding reception lol...
I've had my starter at one table, mean meal another and desert total different table, with people I just met.... (that was at my brothers wedding)... usually it's a set menu, so regardless where you are seated you will get food Wink
seems like we are very relaxed about all off this... the aim is.. Bride and Groom should have a wonderful time and no family fights allowed... wait till the next day

soccermom830's picture

I was told by the bride's mother and brother that is was for pictures. she didn't want non-family in audience pictures. whatever. how can you only take pictures of certain rows? cop out. she wanted mom and dad together.

Rags's picture

Folks, I was joking about wedding seating being dependent upon parental financial contribution. Smile

Rags's picture

At our first wedding my bride and I eloped. We announced it a couple of weeks ahead of time and told friends and family that they could join us in Tahoe if they wished. My mom, brother, SIL, baby niece, and college BFF and his GF joined us from my side. My brides aunt and uncle came from her side. Her parents were not supportive and chose not to attend. My dad was overseas and couldn't or he would have been there with mom.

On our 20th we renewed our vows and had a blow out far more traditional wedding. Seating was not set at either the wedding or reception though my parents family sat on the R and my brides parents and family sat on the L. The wedding party table had the two of us, the kid who "officiated", my parents and my ILs.

No drama. Over the 20yrs my ILs decided I was okay so they all made it to the renewal.... which was basically in my bride's home town at a vineyard and winery.

Now.... the wedding with my XW... was a nightmare. All kinds of politics around seating, invitees, etc, etc, etc.....

Hikinggal's picture

I am fairly new here. Do you have two ex wives? Just asking for clarification, not judgement.

Weddings with drama, hierarchy, "ranking," etc., I feel, are just facades - spendy shows. Never been impressed with them. My first wedding was simple and drama free but I was young and had no idea what I was getting into and my ex and I were not compatible to make it long term. Still had a fun wedding, though. I, as a bride, treated everyone with respect, I wanted to make sure everyone had a good time. I didn't hide agendas or rudeness behind "etiquette." It also was "the grooms" day, too -- I HATE hearing "It's the brides day" -- omg... really? What about the groom???

My second wedding was the most beautiful, though. It was centered around our intentions, vows, commitment. The family gathered around us at the alter however the heck they wanted (some even, gasp!!! wore HATS). We had our vows but we also wrote vows for our family asking them not to F#$% with us, basically. lol I joke - but no, that was the general gist -- we asked them to not interfere and to support us in our relationship. They all said "I DO" to that and so far so good. We spent a whopping $400 - mostly just on the certificate and officiant. We had our "reception" at a dive bar with good music. Everyone had fun, no big deal. We revisit our vows every anniversary together (husband and I).

That's just me, obviously everyone GETS to do whatever they want -- treat dad like a second-class citizen, make sure MOB knows she's the queen bee, send Dad's date (SM or GF) to the back - sure. Do what you want, obviously they are at your mercy if you think you need to rule the show like that and treat people poorly. We get it. I just think those kinds of weddings suck. ANd they suck for everyone, don't think they don't. A wedding that is light, filled with LOVE is much more fun for all. Peace.

Rags's picture

Nope, just one adulterous cavern crotched skank whore serially out of wedlock breeding devoid of character XW who I blessedly avoided spawning with. She is now on DH #3. I was #1. She had 3 oowl spawn between her three weddings.

That wedding was the social event of the season and my XMIL orchestrated quite the dog and pony show. My family is far more low key than my XILs were. 500+ guests (my side had about 30) in a massive Cathedral that was packed on the brides side and empty on mine. A massive reception with the full catered, live band, full open bar, etc, etc, etc.... experience.

That marriage lasted 2.5yrs and cost ~$15K per year.

My amazing bride of nearly 23 years and I eloped. We told friends and family about 2wks ahead of time and told them to come to Tahoe if they felt like it. $500 all in at a wedding chapel in Lake Tahoe including license, dress and flowers. So far that investment has cost us ~$20.83/yr and it goes down a bit every year.

We renewed our vows on our 20th anniversary in her home town. That was my anniversary gift to her. Plan the wedding that she wanted and go to town in her home town. She did. But her CPA brain would not let her go too nuts on the budget. Even the wedding services vendors she used said it was a $50K wedding. She spent about 25% of that... not counting the ring that I bought her. I don't count that. The whole thing was beautiful. It was about our commitment, our love, our family, and our friends and it was a blast. The best deal was on the officiate. The Skid officiated and did a great job. He was free. Wink

My wife is the ultimate analyst/planner. She selected excellent vendors based on exhaustive research. Interestingly every one of them won the "Best of" award the following year so she got them before they got expensive.

A year after the renewal my son asked me to adopt him. He was 22. We made that happen so now we all have the same family name.

I completely agree with you. The only emotion associated with a wedding should be love. If that is not the case... some one F-d it up.

Hikinggal's picture

Awesome!! I was hoping that was the timeline of your story, but wasn't sure which wife was the adulterer. Sounds like you made out grand in the end, regardless of that first marriage.

Rags's picture

Thanks. I definitely won the bride lottery the second time I played. I am glad your second trip to the alter is working out well too.

Enjoy.

soccermom830's picture

so darling bf told me he finally discussed with daughter what went down at wedding - but he refuses to tell me what was said and said darling daughter is pissed at him now. he said she told him it was never going to happen - because of how it was planned - me sitting with him. he said he thinks I'm trying to put a rift between him and his daughter. wow. I'm just appalled at this even more I think. sounds like we're a real team huh? i am disgusted!

still learning's picture

You're the one creating the rift huh? According to bf you must *hate* SD because you had the gall to question princesses' seating arrangement. You are now the reason that bf and sd have any problems. This is exactly why so many of us SM's completely disengage and remove ourselves as doormats and targets.

You can't change their dynamic but you can remove yourself from it.

soccermom830's picture

Yeah I'm just not so sure that I can continue to have a relationship with somebody even if I disengage just because I feel so strongly about somebody having my back. he actually stopped by tonight and still wouldn't tell me what the daughter said about me but did tell me that his son who came to get me when I was crying said that I was acting like an ass or something to that effect so I told him to leave and of course I'm the hateful one when he allowed his son to talk like that about me when I was crying. I said why didn't you come looking for me and he said that I was causing drama. He eventually did but it took him like 30 minutes to even care. I don't understand why this man keeps chasing me and proclaiming his love for me when it sounds to me like he has no empathy or respect for me whatsoever. how do all of you women stay with these men? Why do we put up with it and why are so many men so incapable of standing up for their wives or significant others? I don't get it. And yes Echo I said I want to be with somebody who can talk to me about everything and doesn't keep things from me he said but you'll just put it back in my face. He wouldn't want to admit to me that his perfect daughter is a hateful little wench I guess. Because it's so much easier to blame me for everything and take responsibility for everyone else's actions wow just wow

soccermom830's picture

Believe me I would have if it wasn't two hours from my house and I didn't drive because he didn't let me or want me to and I listened to him like a dummy when I knew I shouldn't have. Yes it was a little dramatic but so were they I wanted to escape somewhere I couldn't. not a good feeling I was very pissed

Disneyfan's picture

Why didn't you take a taxi to a local hotel and check into a room for the night? Staying at a venue where you were disrespected and CRYING seems strange and attention seeking.

Disneyfan's picture

She's 47 years old. When someone is treating you like shit, you get your butt up and leave. (After a few choice words) You don't sit there, take it and cry.

What happened to the OP was wrong.

Disneyfan's picture

I agree, they would have found fault in that as well. But at least she would have been protecting herself.

Crying in front of your enemies(in this case SD, SS and BM)shows them that they got to you. Telling them all to kiss your ass and leaving with your head held high gives you the victory.

And if you must cry, don't cry infront of your tormentors. Their primary goal is to break you. Why give them what they want?

twoviewpoints's picture

I agree with you on this. Never let them see they got to you. 'F-u, I'm outta here, who needs this crap' and out the door I'd of gone. For me it would be more running through my head 'no, you stupid twit, you will not see me shed one tear over the likes of you or your tricks'.

Kind of like when doing battle 'never let them see you blink'.

I feel terrible for what happened to the OP. I don't blame her for being very hurt. But if I were her, I'd never ever again allow myself to be set-up by these nasty people again. Not ever.

I wouldn't want to hear what the bride had to say about me nor over what happened either. It wouldn't matter because the bride nor her ignorant father would ever be given the time of day from me again. Life's too short for that sh*t and with only a year invested, there isn't a man worth this...I wouldn't be investing any more time.

still learning's picture

Yes just imagine if a SM had not seated SD in the family section, that would be cruel and not go over well with anyone. SD should rightfully be upset in that situation.

still learning's picture

You're making up a phantom unrelated scenario, this wasn't about sitting in an aisle seat.

ldvilen's picture

This is about bullying period. I know you think SMs should be treated like sloppy seconds vs. as DH's wife, even tho. you claim to be a SM yourself, but not every SM wants to be treated that way.

This is very typical of how SMs' feelings are minimized. What you said is no different than a man telling a woman whose ass he just beat for 15 minutes, that she's the one with the problem! It was just 15 minutes!? What's the big deal!?

Why would she do even a minimal amount of research on a wedding? Every other wedding she has gone to, I'm sure she saw couples being seated next to each other? Why would she think it would be different this time around? Like I said, you may think 2nd marriages or relationships are somehow a lesser marriage, and I know there are more who think that way. But, not all of us feel that way about our marriages or unions, nor should any of us have to feel that way.

ldvilen's picture

There are parents and there are couples. Couples are married, and parents may or may not be. Couples attend events together.

You are right it is not a given that dad's GF sits in the front tow, but if SS's girlfriend of two months in sitting in the front row, for ex., then, yes, dad's GF should get to sit in the front row too.

And, rarely, is DH going to want to sit together with anyone other than his wife!! I mean, come on! DH is not nuts (well, OK, some are). DH is usually told, at the last minute as possible (and rehearsal dinner is last minute) about the seating arrangements. Our, like in my case and the OP's, dad is Shanghaied and has no clue what is going on until the last second. AND, I have even heard of cases where neither BM nor DH want to sit together, but feel forced to. Everyone just needs to stop this nonsense and accept that married couples get to sit next to each other period, no matter where, no matter what.

twoviewpoints's picture

Do you truly honestly believe that in this scenario, had bride's mother had a SO or BF in her life for one year, that 'SF' would have been escorted away from front row (and on beyond the second row) to be seated back with strangers to him or non-family guest? Ah, lets put "SF" in row five next to the across the street neighbor family. It's only 15-30 minutes, right? And of course, BM can get up run back and join "SF" if she wants to.

Let's say custody had been 50/50 (Dad did just as much parenting time as BM) and Dad and BM both are paying for wedding and/or bride and groom are self paying.

Oh, and if you answer, don't forget there is already a GF of 2 months sitting up with her date in first couple 'family only' rows, but that woman doesn't seem to count.

ldvilen's picture

All depends on age, culture and so on. I always find it strange that it is okay for women to be total bitches nowadays, but if you are kind or sensitive, you are weak or a loser.

It may have brought back memories for her from previous bullying events as well. Believe me, to find yourself an experienced and educated woman attending an event where you are being treated figuratively much like you were in Jr. high, with girls kicking your ankles under your desk and telling you you were ugly to your face. . . flashbacks of that would bring pretty much bring anyone to tears, to think that as much as you may have thought you were long past that point, maybe you are not.

ldvilen's picture

Again, why would a known couple ever have to "clarify" that they were going to be seated together at an event? Oh!, I know why!? It is because BM still gets first dibs on DH even tho. he is with or married to someone else and has been for uyears. Heck, BM, SKs don't even have to bother checking with DH, their own dad or ex-. It is just so-o-o-o-o-o obvious that DH is still at their complete 100% beck and call even 10 years after the divorce. It doesn't even matter that DH and his now wife have been married for longer than DH and his ex-. The ex- still gets first dibs.

hereiam's picture

Really? After a year, they don't know if they are a couple or if she's just his date for the day? Like I've said, a year is not long in the grand scheme of things but neither is it a week. The family knew damn well that they were a couple.

But no matter, what really matters is how the boyfriend has handled the situation and that is very telling. He flat out does not care how all of this has made the OP feel. He sat next to his ex wife and f^ck his girlfriend, she was on her own.

And frankly, she's better off on her own than with this guy.

Disneyfan's picture

Being kind doesn't mean you allow people to disrespect you. Speaking up and confronting those who mistreat you doesn’t make you a bitch.

I think the poster who mentioned cultural differences may be onto something. I really think those differences play a major role in how we react to and shape our opinions on various situations.

still learning's picture

They all treated you badly, you have every right to your feelings. Anyone would be put off by having the exW come over and kick them out of their seat away from their date. The son who was so nice to your face is now sh*t talking you to his father. What a jerk!

Really this all falls on BF's shoulders. As his guest he should have made sure you were comfortable and taken care of. Instead he allowed you to be mistreated so everyone else would feel comfortable, which is all to common w/divorced fathers.

I'd probably cry a little too, not full out bawling ugly cry but like you got poked in the eye cry.

SacrificialLamb's picture

Typical. He will tell you what his son said, but not his daughter. He must protect the innocent wounded princess. Son does not need protecting. At this point he doesn't want to admit his daughter is not a nice a person. It took my DH years of seeing how his daughter behaved to finally admit that she was doing things to drive a wedge in our marriage.

To your SO, YOU are the new candidate to enter the existing family. You are supposed to bend over backwards to gain acceptance and conform to the rules and traditions of the family. If you can't live with it - their dysfunction - the problem is YOU, not the family. Daddy is happy to play doormat to his kids, and as his partner, expects you to do the same.

It will only get worse.

sandye21's picture

"how do all of you women stay with these men?" I can only speak for myself but when I married DH I was NOT in the correct psychological state to be getting married. In other words, I was just plain stupid. I had been abused most of my life, childhood, work, 1st marriage and emotionally damaged older adopted children. I did not yet have the tools to deal with other people properly. I SHOULD have had extensive therapy before marrying DH. It took 20 years before I became overly saturated with the treatment I was getting from SD and DH before I started to take action. I have to say though, that if my DH had said the things your BF has said to you before we got married I would have told him to shove it where the sun never shines, and be on his way.

You already see that there is something not quite right with this man, his relationship with his kids and his total disrespect for you. As Stepaside wrote, you really don't need to know what SD said about you. It doesn't make any difference now - there is too much water under the bridge. You know this relationship is going nowhere, and if he comes back professing his love for you it's a lie - he wants something other than love from you. I can not understand why you have not dropped him like a hot cake already.

I really hope you take my suggestion and see a therapist or a counselor because you sound a lot like me before I married my DH and it's not good. Obviously, you are looking in all the wrong places.

hereiam's picture

how do all of you women stay with these men?

I stay with my man because he has never treated me like a second class citizen. I would rather be alone than be with a jerk. Twenty years and he still treats ME like a princess.

Are you going to stay with this guy and if so, why?

ldvilen's picture

Oh, I agree with you completely--he could have gone and sat with his GF. It would have been fantastic if he did. I strongly encourage this for anyone in this situation in the future. The rehearsal dinner counts for nothing. Neither my husband nor I, for example, were informed of what was going to go down that day.

Actually, the day of the wedding, my DH just finished handing out the wedding programs, and just as the wedding was just about to start, the minister came up to my husband and told him to take his ex's arm and walk her down the aisle. That is how my DH was "told" or "informed." You can look at any of my previous postings and see where I stated I wished right then and there my DH would have told the officiate to take a hike or worse. I wish to God he would have; he certainly should have.

But, it was not his fault alone, by any means. There was an absolute and complete lack of common courtesy, yes, even by me and the minister, all the way around. This could all been avoided by a simple heads-up early on, so both my DH and I could have decided if either one or both of us still wanted to go to the wedding. People just get waa-a-ay too much of a pass on treating steps like shit. That is all there is to it. And, that is why it was permitted. Monkey see, monkey do. If steps weren't allowed to be treated this way, then they wouldn't. We are all guilty.

soccermom830's picture

Well he didn't go to the rehearsal dinner and he had no idea he said that I would not be sitting in the first couple of rows waiting for him. he was nervous and the wedding had already started so he didn't want to turn around and look for me. He said I was he was surprised I wasn't sitting there and he didn't know they were going to do that. no I went off to a back bedroom and called my mother crying I couldn't go to a hotel because it was too far from my home. The wedding was in the back of the house and I stayed in the front after I left the bedroom. he finally came looking for me after his son found me so upset. And I'm not a crier but when I get really pissed I cry and I was very pissed. Thank you to all who are understanding I really appreciate it my emotions just happened I really didn't have much control because I was shocked at the complete and utter disrespect that I felt especially knowing I shouldn't have gone in the first place because my gut told me not to.

hereiam's picture

Always follow your gut.

What's your gut saying about this guy and your future with him?

ldvilen's picture

Everyone here agrees it is OK for SM to disengage, only if she more or less has to--is being treated like a servant (responsibility w/o authority), etc. Meanwhile, many SKs, even as adults, don't even make attempts to engage with SM. Immediate write off.

Becoming dad's wife does not make you a parent--correct. Like I said above, there are parents and then there are couples. Dad and his wife are unquestionably a couple and deserve to be treated as such. In the meantime, the SM should be accepted as Dad's wife--Yes. But, many SMs do not even get that.

I don't care where the GF was seated, back, middle, etc. At pretty much every event, known couples and dates are seated together. And, I don't think OP ever assumed she should be sitting up front. I think she just assumed she'd be sitting with her BF/date, which under any other circumstances would be a reasonable assumption.

Some of the points you made regarding the fact that OP was just dad's date, are reasonable. You are being specific to the OP. I admit, on the other hand, I am speaking in more broader terms as how dad's wife (or SM) are often treated in general. I don't think we are necessarily that far off. You are just being specific to the GF/BF relationship, while I am approaching from a broader standpoint of how SMs tend to be treated in general just because of the label they bear.

Truce?

ldvilen's picture

Thought I'd give it a try. I'm not sure what's going on? I don't mind getting a different viewpoint, but one time there is an argument this way, and then when that is fairly challenged, it goes off in another completely different direction. Some people just like to argue for arguments sake. I think that is what is going on here, and I always hate it when these discussions get reduced to dribble. It kind of minimizes the entire discussion. But, maybe that is the point?

still learning's picture

I think we can all agree that BF/dad was an ass in this situation. He dealt w/it poorly by not going to the rehearsal then blaming OP for the incident and all the fallout afterward. He should have taken full responsiblity for all of it, apologized to OP, his kids and everyone for the misunderstanding.

Of course OP thought she was sitting by BF, no one told her any differently until exW came up and booted her out.

hereiam's picture

Well, I told my DH about this post. I said up above that DH would have sat with me, no matter where they sat me, but apparently, I was wrong, he said we would have just left. Nobody sits Hereiam in the back!

Livingoutloud's picture

I think it's rude to tell sm to go sit in the back. But....
To all honesty a gf of one year isn't really s SM especially if skids don't have relationship with her. I probably opted against going to a wedding if I barely knew SKs ( if I was a gf)

SacrificialLamb's picture

I agree, I wouldn't have attended with only a year in. I would have found out the particulars of the wedding ahead of time and then made my decision.

sandye21's picture

After reading all of this, I am SOOO glad I chose not to attend SD's wedding! If I had, and I had been treated as the OP was, DH and I would not be married today. In my opinion the BF was a jerk to ask the OP to accompany him to the wedding and then ignore her. On top of that, he comes back blaming her for being dramatic and with all sorts of mean statements such as his son thought she was an ass, and he wouldn't tell her what his daughter said.

OP posted this 6 days ago and I am still wondering why she did not tell him to get lost right after the wedding. What is she waiting for? Is she hoping he will have a change of heart, change into someone else, apologize and straighten the skids out? This only happens in the movies.

ldvilen's picture

I'll post something from another site I just read. I don't think TwoOfUs would mind:. . . . "The problem is when SMs (or even SOs) are routinely expected to sacrifice, compromise, and make room in their lives (and their wallets) for kids who aren't theirs. Just put up and shut up...on repeat, ad infinitum...for years and years. Have regular visits in their homes for at least 1/3 of the year...but often 1/2 or even full-time (don't know how you full-timers do it). Not get an equal voice in their own home...because kids. All on the basis that these are kids who didn't ask for this (as if kids' preferences are the be all end all in the first place).

Then, kids become adults...and no one expects even basic courtesy to or consideration for dad's wife. No one suggests that these now-adults make peace...or, god forbid, even grow and learn graciousness. Nope. They're justified in exclusion and disdain forever. Let's not encourage them to be better people or develop better life/coping skills. Nah. In fact, let's just polish up that chip on their shoulder and reassure them that they 'have every right' to treat another human like garbage."

No. It is not baggage and relationship insecurities that other people bring to the ceremony. It is SM getting royally SCREWED yet again and everyone acting like there is no problem pairing up dad with another woman. Dad and his wife want to sit together. Dad doesn't want to sit with the woman, ex-/BM who made his life a hell, basically took everything from him during the divorce, PASd the kids against him, and the list goes on and on. Dad wants to sit with his wife, and yes, sometimes even his GF. BUT, no one thinks about dad, much less dad's wife.

Again, that is why I say what I say below. Unless you want an reenactment of A Handmaid's Tale, of sorts, where you are being held down by another woman while being screwed, please SMs, avoid any and all weddings.

secret's picture

Here's the thing about this....

if you take out the family dynamics from the scene...

...what you're left with is assigned seating where the couple is separated.

Neither my SO nor I would tolerate being seating in different places if we were going somewhere - when we buy 2 tickets for something, they automatically give you 2 seats that are TOGETHER. If the venue has no available seats together, they TELL YOU. Same with airline tickets. Same with going to an acquaintance's wedding. The couple is seated together.

If I would expect nothing less than to be seated with my SO when attending an event I was invited to, why in the actual blue Fuq would I accept anything less just because the one doing the invited is his daughter?

If I wouldn't accept that kind of behavior from a stranger, a friend, a laywer, doctor, policeman, I sure as Sh1t won't accept it from his child.

There's of course, a modicum of propriety to follow... it is, after all, your husband's daughter's wedding. It's only natural that he might have responsibilities on that day that means he needs to put her first... such as, if she wants a picture with both per parents, that is her right. It's not a snub to you. You're not her parent. That's an appropriate moment for you to step back, and see it as a bride taking a picture with her parents...and not your husband taking a picture with his bitc hof an ex.... at my own wedding, years ago, I had both my bio parents there. They've been divorced for years, and hadn't been in the same room in 20 years. They hated each other. To everyone's surprise... mine included, because I had made every accomodation I could think of to keep them comfortably separate while on equal footing... when it was time for dancing,this is what happened.... all in one song blend...

I danced with my husband. We split off - I danced with my dad, he danced with his mom.

As the DJ was announcing that everyone was welcome to join on the dance floor, timing wise, my husband and I were back to dancing with each other, and his dad went to his mom.... to everyone's amazement, my father walked to my mother...and THEY danced...

nobody else got on the dance floor, everyone was too dang shocked to see my father having asked my mother to dance.

Sometimes, it's not about who's in the relationship with who... it's about the VIP's connections. I can understand the bride might not hold the SM on equal footing as the dad... because she's not, she's not the parent. The husband sure keeps his wife on the same level as him - but that's HIS connection.... not his daughter's.

Just because my SO holds someone with high importance doesn't mean I have to hold them the same importance... but I would never disrespect my SO by making them feel less important than they've come to know they are, in SO's eyes.

soccermom830's picture

wow that's amazing secret!!! about your parents. I actually asked my bf if he danced with his ex (while I was away crying) he said no. I wonder though.

he didn't go to the rehearsal dinner and I guess if he says he didn't know I wouldn't be allowed to sit with him, I should believe him cause he knows I wouldn't have come. he says if I would have planned to go all along things might have been different. I don't believe that. I'm sure the daughter would have still felt the same way. he should have known the plan.

still learning's picture

I already know that "doing the right thing" when ss32 gets married means that I will gracefully bow out of attending at all. Bowing out means no gift shopping, no encouraging DH to give them extra anything, no help w/planning, prepping, zero zip nadda. DH will be free to do, be, sit, act however and wherever he wants. I'll have some fantastic plans made and won't think of any of them at all.

Luckily I know to expect the worst, unlike other blindsided SM's.

ldvilen's picture

OMG: "You should have prepared yourself for the inevitable backseat." This is horrible. If you want to suck it up and take it year after year, fine. Or, if you feel this is not a hill to die on, or whatever you want to call it, fine. But, don't think for one moment that we all have to feel that way. If you want to be the Oreo, so to speak, fine.

Wanting to be treated like and accepted as DH's spouse is not a "territory trap." You are DH's wife and you SHOULD be treated that way. DH's ex- is his ex-, his children are his children. You are his wife. DH and BM are parents, and he is father to his children. SM is his wife. These are all separate roles. If SM wants to be treated as DH's wife, and she is insisting on such, she is not falling into a territory trap. She is simply wanting her correct role/ her marriage to DH recognized.

First of all, unless you have been a SM before or know the drill, so to speak, you are not going to attend any wedding expected to be separated from your spouse, much less in the back. Just like any other couple, you are going to attend a wedding expecting to be seated with your husband, and, yes, maybe even in a couple of pictures with him, just like Uncle Joe and his wife Judy would be in family pictures together. Most SMs are okay with pictures of just mom and dad and bride and groom, etc.; however, they see nothing wrong with some pictures of SM and DH at the wedding. (And, I have even read comments from adult SKs themselves that divorced couples do not belong in pictures together, and this includes their own parents and on their wedding day.)

AND, this is the point that really needs to be made. All of this energy and time is spent assuming SM, demanding SM, telling SM she needs to accept her role as DH's second wife, literally. That SM has no say, or that even DH has no say in when they get to be or get to act like a married couple. EVERYONE KNOWS THIS IS CONTROVERSIAL. Yet, they all act like SM is just supposed to know that she is to, as you say, accept the backseat. Since it is controversial, if this is your plan, you at least owe a heads-up to your own father, and his wife that this is what you would like. And, you owe it to them prior to the rehearsal dinner. Springing it on them one day before, you might as well be springing it on them the day of.

I consider myself a passive person, but I would never consider myself sticking up for myself and my role as DH's wife and partner, "unbecoming." This is the year 2017 and not 1917. Again, if you choose to accept your role (and the role that society usually places on SMs) as DH's accessory vs. his wife, that is your choice. Just don't expect it to be mine or anyone else's.

ETA: This was in response to an earlier post that has since disappeared.

ldvilen's picture

It is your husband. It is not your SD's husband nor BM's husband. I agree, tho., if you were treated like trailer trash in the past, then the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, or maybe not even gone. Apparently you are comfortable in that role.

But, again, don't be telling any other SM that she has to accept that role. If SMs continue to allow themselves to be treated like sloppy seconds, then everyone will continue to treat them that way. If SMs say NO and put their foot down and say, "I except to treated like my husband's wife because I am his wife," then maybe others will start to see and treat SMs with the respect they deserve.

Whether or not you or anyone else thinks you are family is besides the point. Whether in your mind it is, "What's the big deal, it is only 20 minutes," is besides the point You are your DH's wife, and husbands and wives attend events together. This should be the assumption by everyone. The assumption should not be by anyone that DH and his ex- are going to be seated together. People at weddings are seated by whom they are married to or bringing along as their +1. The only time any kind of other arrangement is being forced on anyone, is if it is a SM.

AND, your comment, "Doing things the day of the wedding gave me a safe place to be," does speak volumes. I agree. SMs are not safe at weddings at all!

ETA: Saffron, how did you edit your post after SA and I responded? You clearly said, "You should have prepared yourself for the inevitable backseat" right off the bat in your first post. Now, that line has been taken out and your post edited.

ldvilen's picture

I admit the re-do of your original post is not as offensive. And, what I was responding to was your original post and not the re-do. It is good you edited it to more clearly state your point of view and explain that this was your POV alone.

But, I get the feeling you are stronger than you think, and have the ability to stand up for yourself more than you think. You made the comment on another topic, "Polyandry [a woman who has multiple husbands] was practiced in Asian and African cultures. Now, I think it's only in Africa and a few pockets near Tibet and Mongolia. Women are just too smart for that." Any woman who can make that comment has more going for her than she thinks, and has the ability to manage how others treat her better than she thinks.

twoviewpoints's picture

FWIW, the sentence you're quoting is in the third paragraph of Saffron's first post on this forum post.

At least on this side of the site, once a person's originally comment has been replied to, it can that person loses ability to edit their comment. Reply link disappears. If a person edits before their comment id replied to, the editing automatically also changes the time stamp.

I think you jut missed it your second read because when you would have read it the first time, it is the one sentence that would have jumped off the screen and screamed out to you because of your horrible experience at your own stepchild's wedding.

I'm not sure Saffron has ever read about your very poor treatment and hurtful experience of your skids wedding. She very likely has no clue as to why a statement such as "You should have prepared yourself for the inevitable backseat" as if it were a normal expectation would strike a raw nerve for you.

Ok, I'll go back to minding my own business and leave you ladies be, just popped in to answer the editing question.

SacrificialLamb's picture

I understand your point. But with this kind of description, I can't see what could possibly compel you to want to attend this wedding. A show of good faith to DH? Trying to prove a point to SD?

Why go to an event that she doesn't want me to attend that I don't want to attend myself? And I could prove points to SD all day long, and it would not matter.

I attended one SD wedding, and that is where I came face to face with what OSD really thought of me. So there is no doubt I will not be attending any more weddings.

SacrificialLamb's picture

"Can you believe, the first time I saw SD after that damn wedding she said, "My mom was pissed because she came over to greet you and you ignored her." "

Why yes, absolutely, I believe it. Because it doesn't matter what an SM does; it's always the wrong thing.

My OSD tried to get me to wear white to the wedding because she wanted all the women to blend in with the bridesmaid dresses (which were nowhere near white). My own DH told me this and I told him no way. He of course had no clue. I did not wear white, and remember walking in to the church and seeing BM in a black and purple print. That's when the lightbulb switched on.

sandye21's picture

Just throwing this question out there --- Where did SD sit when you got married? And how did she behave at the wedding and reception. My SD wore black an acted like she was at a funeral.

sandye21's picture

I had a small but nice wedding. No bridesmaids. Just a Maid of Honor who was my best friend. The night before the wedding SD pulled a power play and resulting snit - the first of many future snits and insulting behavior. SD pouted all through the wedding and wouldn't talk to anyone. As I look back on it, I think it was "the right thing to do" "for me" not to include her in the wedding. Now that I know what SD is capable of, I am confident she would have ruined it.

I also think it was "the right thing to do" not to attend SD's wedding. BM gave everyone the impression that I broke up the marriage, even though I didn't live in the area or know DH until 2 years after they divorced. I would have been flayed out and barbecued at SD's wedding. I agree with Stepaside - What might be "the right thing to do" for one person may not be the same for another. You have to consider the situation and what is "the right thing to do" for you. This also goes for the definition of 'being a bigger person'. I thought I was being the 'bigger person' for 20 years, I do not have fond memories of it.

still learning's picture

So SD was a bridesmaid on your special day and you faced a wall and didn't even make eye contact w/people at her wedding. You even helped pay for hers. That's some major double standard. I know you feel that you did the right thing and are at peace with your decision of being the invisible unimportant unwanted plus one but wow...

ldvilen's picture

What people have to realize too is it isn't just one 30 minute event. It is years and years of 20 minute events where you were well-behaved and took it. Then, the big day comes where your SD or SS is being launched, and no matter what anyone says or tries to deny, you were a part of their lives, and your big reward is being told or even forced to sit on the sidelines and watch your husband being hooked up with some other woman for the evening. No thanks.

There is really no excuse for that. It is the Bride's Special Day is not an excuse. What if the Bride sprung a nudist wedding on everyone, and expected everyone to strip before they entered the hall? And, personally, I would have preferred that to what I (and what I've seen other SMs) go thru. Would most have just stripped their clothes off and went inside, because after all it is the Bride's special day and she can do whatever she wants? No, I don't think so. Some say it is the bride honoring her parents. Fine and great, but there are many other ways to honor your parents without crushing SM and probably dad too. And, seating arrangements really have nothing to do one way or the other with honoring your parents. And, I'm not sorry for saying this, but it is a pretty feeble-minded bride or groom who "forgets" that mom or dad is remarried and forgets to check with them on seating expectations well ahead of the wedding.

ALL of this, could easily be greatly reduced or eliminated by checking with or giving dad or mom a heads up ahead of time. But, why isn't this done? I can tell you why--because everyone (wedding planners, officiates, MOB, MOG, and so on) all know that deep down aside it is just wrong. They know that dad is going to want to be or even should be seating with his wife. They know that mom is going to want to be or should be seating with her husband. They know this. THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO ADDRESS IT. They don't want to give dad or mom the chance to say No, or "how about if we do this instead." So, the thought is to just spring this on not only dad, but also SM, and they'll just have to suck it up and take it. After all, it is the Bride's Special Day.

So, some SMs are OK with this, having things sprung on them year after year. Fine. Not me. As far as I'm concerned, I may expect children to get away with springing nasties, because they don't know any better. Adults know better, and I don't care who they are.

SugarSpice's picture

my heart goes out to op. the boyfriend obviously has no spine.

please dont marry this jerk. once you are his wife, he knows he can treat you as second best.