When do holiday breaks start?

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The girls just left after their Christmas break with DH yesterday.

BM hasn't purchased their airfare for spring break (early March) yet, which isn't necessarily a big deal; it's still 8-9 weeks away.

She did, however, send an email last night stating that Spring Break starts on Monday March 11, the first day that schools are closed; and NOT on March 9, the Saturday after the last day of school.

The CO is silent on when the "break" actually begins .. so what do we do?

DH is planning to call his attorney to see if there's anything he can do legally if she refuses to send the girls on the 9th.

I just don't understand why she does these things

With a vague order, there

With a vague order, there really isn't a legal standard; however, a lot of cases have been upheld differently depending on the circumstances. In circumstances where the NCP gets EOWE, it is generally upheld that the break would include 1, but not both weekends of the break - so either break starts the Friday school recesses and ends the following Friday OR starts Monday and goes to the following Monday. That said, it sounds like your dh doesn't get EOWE and the breaks are meant to give him maximum access, in which case he has a sound argument to get from school recesses until the day before school resumes.

She is stationed in Texas

She is stationed in Texas temporarily while she's in school; so DH does not get EOWE now. When she was local, he gets every weekend.

They alternate Thanksgiving and Christmas, but Spring Break is his every year. The girls just left yesterday at the conclusion of Christmas break. They were here the Friday that school let out through the Sunday before school resumed.

Just wondering what a "sound argument" is .. and how we go about it? He's going to talk to his lawyer today; I'm just not very hopeful there's anything that can be done.

If she blatantly denies him those 2 days, he will definitely call her Commanding Officer.

I agree .. he's only called

I agree .. he's only called one time before, and that issue was very clear. The CO was helpful and friendly the last time, and told DH to let him know if there are any other problems in the future.

I don't know if DH will really call .. he's just upset and tired of fighting for every. single. thing.

How have they handled it in

How have they handled it in the past? Does the CO address other breaks and their start/end times? Are the breaks pretty evenly alternated/split?

When scheduling our kids, I always assumed after school on the last day, until the night before school went back = break. But, if you look at the school calendar, break is M-F.

This is all mostly new

This is all mostly new territory since BM has only lived out of state since August; we have limited history dealing with it.

For the holiday weekends the girls have visited, we get them Saturday morning to Monday night (the entire weekend considering travel happened on Saturday morning and not Friday night).

For this past Christmas break, the girls flew up after school Friday and stayed until the Sunday afternoon before school resumes.

They live in Texas while BM is in school with the Navy; we live in Maryland. When BM is stationed locally, DH gets much more regular visitation.

The CO is silent on start/end

The CO is silent on start/end times of breaks; just that Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks are alternated. DH gets every spring break.

DH also gets summers; which start one week after school lets out, and end one week before school resumes (so to allow for summer vacation with BM and then readjusting to schedules before school resumes).

I'm honestly not sure two

I'm honestly not sure two days is a hill to die on. I could make arguments either way.

I agree that it's not a hill

I agree that it's not a hill to die on .. but I don't think DH feels the same way.

Now that she's moved and no longer has any intention of moving back here, DH fights for every chance to spend time with his kids that he can.

2 days doesn't seem like much, but to him, it matters.

I'm just trying to see if anyone has had a similar issue come up, how it was handled, and what the outcome was.

Personally? I always caved

Personally? I always caved and gave Dad whatever time he wanted. Not because I didn't want them here, but because I didn't want to hear how I denied him time was keeping them away, etc. It DID irk me when he insisted on having them on Mother's Day (also my Dad's 75th bday and two days after my Mom's 74th, which we were planning on celebrating together) because his (then) g/f's niece had her first communion and our kids HAD to be there. Really? But I sucked it up. So yeah... two days? Not a hill to me. JMO

Yeah, that makes a lot more

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense to me.

If BM was EVER generous in giving DH time, I'm certain he wouldn't stress this 2 day issue.

But she's not. He has to fight for MONTHS to get her to agree to let him see the kids on weekends he's entitled to in their custody agreement. The last time he flew there, she flat out said he wouldn't be able to see them. She refused to give him the time/locations of their games (soccer and cheerleading) and then told him she was going to file for harrassment charges when he emailed the coaches directly.

She claims seeing him disrupts their schedules and is detrimental to their health and welfare. No kidding.

The girls are 5 and 6 .. they

The girls are 5 and 6 .. they don't care about splitting breaks between homes right now .. they're with BM 100% of the time during the school year, so visiting DH is like a vacation for them.

The Commanding Officer thing comes in because she's Navy. He has only ever called her Commanding Officer one time in the past, and that was because she was blatantly denying his visitaiton with his kids. A direct violation of their custody order.

The Navy holds their officers to higher standards .. so things like this when she's violating an order are considered "conduct unbecoming an officer". I agree, in the private sector, it would be stupid and pointless to call someone's manager. It's a very different thing in the military.

This disagreement is not so clear and direct .. so DH may or may not end up calling the CO .. that will depend on what the lawyer says.

>The girls are 5 and 6 ..

>The girls are 5 and 6 .. they don't care about splitting breaks between homes right now .. they're with BM 100% of the time during the school year, so visiting DH is like a vacation for them.

Just a comment, take it as you may. How strict is Dad when they are there? Do they have to go to bed at a certain time, do chores, etc, etc? They likely have no homework to be nagged about. Don't have to get up on time for school. Of *course* it's like a vacation for them!

Dad is strict enough, IMO ..

Dad is strict enough, IMO .. they have rules, light chores, bedtime, structure, etc.

They don't have homework with us, but they're not allowed to watch TV endlessly either.

I can't help the custody order being what it is .. when he only gets them for a week or two every few months, it's hard to make it NOT seem like a vacation to them. But they do not run wild while in our care.

Fair enough, and I do

Fair enough, and I do understand. But, from the other side... is it hard to see how maybe Mom would like a bit of time where the kids can feel like it's a "vacation" at home?

In my situation, Dad had eow, all long w/e's, and all summer, and we alternated all holidays/breaks. Homework was not done on his time, so my weekends were often spent playing catch-up. Our "play" time was pretty minimal, and it would have been nice to have a chance to play Disney Mom now and again.

No, it's not cool that she has withheld time.

That's completely

That's completely understandable.

DH gets 4 long weekends per year. The girls get 8 at their current school; so DH and BM each get half. DH gets spring break and summers. He gets them one week after school gets out and returns them one week before school resumes. They alternate Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks.

While it's not exactly ideal for BM, she has opportunities to do her Disney mom thing if she plans accordingly.

But withholding one weekend here or there does not further her case for wanting to have vacations and fun time with the kids, especially when considering the reasons she gives. You sound like your requests and desires were totally reasonable. I just think it's more of a control issue with our BM.

You're probably right. And I

You're probably right.

And I thank you for the reasoned discussion. Despite being on opposite sides of the fence, I suspect most of us really are interested in what's best for the kids. MOST bioMoms (and I have to say that i *hate* that designation, since I AM my kids' Mom, but will use it to even the playing field) and MOST stepMoms really are good people. Circumstances push buttons. But... if we can talk reasonably, maybe we can find a common ground. And some (most?) bioMoms and some stepMoms can put aside the idiocy. To make it right for the kids.

Now - if we could just smack some sense into the Dads.

She doesn't cooperate with

She doesn't cooperate with anything voluntarily. Ever. I don't think there is anything that DH can do to put her in any type of cooperative spirit.

It's not until DH backs her into a corner or refuses to do her any favors that she ultimately caves .. and by cave, I mean follow the actual order that's legally in place.

The phone call to the attorney is about more than just this .. but this will be brought up as part of the conversation.

DH has called her CO one time before, who was very understanding and cordial on the phone. He told DH to call him if he has any problems in the future. That time BM was blatantly denying his court-ordered visitation. This time isn't so clear, but DH seems to believe he can help. Like I said to another poster, I think the phone call may or may not happen depending on what the lawyer says.

My ex and I went through a

My ex and I went through a similar situation. He got the kids everytime they had a Break in school. Christmas, thanksgiving, spring break, and summer from week after school let out til the week before school started. My priority was maintaing a loving relationship with him. He and I divorced not us and the kids. That's why I get sooo frustrated with BM I have to deal with! It's all about her stupid control issues not about mentally happy loved children

"It's all about her stupid

"It's all about her stupid control issues not about mentally happy loved children"

^^Exactly!

I agree with the modified,

I agree with the modified, specific court order. DH's lawyer has warned in the past that getting too specific can be problematic, which I also agree with .. but I just feel like we have SOO much vague language in there right now! And we see where that's gotten us so far ..

As soon as BM gets her next set of orders (a whole DIFFERENT issue), DH will be filing for a change in custody. I think at that time he will try to get all the changes needed in the custody agreement.

She doesn't let him Skype, but he does "Tango" (video chat app on his smartphone - same thing really). It's not common, and she usually makes sure the kids are distracted with a movie or game before letting him call. She mandates the times he's allowed to call; he actually gets to speak to his kids about 1/2 the time .. always on speakerphone while the TV is on with BM sitting right next to them.

It is better to have a more

It is better to have a more specific order, which the parents can work around if tey want, than a non-specific order where no one know what they're doing.

I absolutely agree with that

I absolutely agree with that .. it protects both parents.

OMG she is so ridiculous.

OMG she is so ridiculous. Have you filed to go back to court for the custody reversal?

Ridiculous is right. DH's

Ridiculous is right. DH's attorney said that we won't have much case to file for a custody reversal until she gets her new orders .. which she claims she still hasn't received.

I only say "claims" because the skids were very chatty about moving to Florida ...

Why don't you just see which

Why don't you just see which day flights are cheaper on? I mean - who cares. It's 2 days. Sometimes people think only about who wins/loses and don't use common sense. I'm not necessarily referring to YOU or your DH. I am just saying that this stepfamily shit is so exhausting and dumb sometimes. I mean... seriously. This is the shit we end up worrying about is whether a flight leaves Saturday or Monday. I get it - I know that right now its the drama in your household. TRUST ME... I have my share of these petty "emergencies" too that eat up every ounce I patience I have. WHY, WHY, WHY are these the things we deal with on a daily basis?

I'm sorry. This just hit too close to home. I'm sorry that this is something you're dealing with and that your DH and the BM can't just work it out. Ugh. Frustrating.

Believe me, I completely

Believe me, I completely understand what you're saying.

I typed this response to another poster yesterday with a similar question:

"If BM was EVER generous in giving DH time, I'm certain he wouldn't stress this 2 day issue.

She claims seeing him disrupts their schedules and is detrimental to their health and welfare. No kidding."

If DH saw them more than one week in 3 months, he wouldn't fight over 2 days. He was always very flexible with changes and switching days when BM was local. I honestly just don't understand why BM would deny him the 2 days either .. short of being a control freak. It's a mess!

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When do holiday breaks start?