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NCP Medical Info

CaveCanem's picture

So the BM in our case has been hounding my husband for his family medical history/ethnic background for over a year. A little history for those who don't know, he currently has zero contact with the affair child, the BM has sole legal/physical, he pays out $1400 a month in CS (yes, ouch), and has repeatedly asked for no contact due to her making false allegations of hostility/harrassment (kinda hard to be harrassing when there is NO contact), has threatened to make his life a living hell, and has called my place of employment. And that's just the tip of the iceberg--it's all a huge nightmare.

We suspect there is something wrong with the child, and when my husband has inquired she just tells him that the child's medical information is private and confidential and none of his business. Even went as far as lied to the insurance company (at least we suspect) and had my husband blocked from receiving EOB's and making inquiries-the child is on my health insurance and has the state as the secondary. In other words, the child's health is apparently 1 big secret. All we know is that he was about 5-6 weeks premature and she was a smoker (cigs and pot and who knows what else).

Getting to the point of this post...she has threatened to have my husband brought to court to get him to fill out a family medical history form and ethnicity breakdown. She actually originally wanted a copy of his medical records!!! His family doesn't want her to know all their business because she cannot be trusted. He doesn't want her to know all his business. And if it's the form I'm thinking we filled out when we were pregnant with our first, it's a 3-page, pretty invasive form. His lawyer told her if there is something wrong with the child to have the Dr. call my husband and it can be handled confidentially so it's not like he didn't offer a solution; she said no and is still threatening to have my husband brought back to court to get it filled out.

My question is has anyone gone thru this before? She pulled the HIPAA card to block everything about the child, isn't my husband afforded the same right? We are concerned if there is something wrong with the child but at the same time the BM is psycho and we fear what she will attempt to do with the info. Is there a way he can request the info be put into a separate file for the Dr. to see/review and block her from the info? Would the courts make her disclose what is wrong with the child in order to have cause for my husband to disclose his medical info? Can't the Dr. just ask what is relevant to the child's care/issues/diagnosis/etc.?

Sorry if it's an odd question, and thank you for your time to answer! This is all just an on-going mess and I have learned a lot from this site!

Oh and in case you are wondering, 4 different lawyers quoted my husband almost $10K to try and get custody changed, which we don't have now.

NancyL's picture

"zero contact with the affair child"
First thing I would do is get DNA to find out if your H is the father or otherwise its none of her business.

HIPPA cuts both ways and if she can keep the info away from you then you should be able to do the same. If you are providing the insurance you should be able to also get EOBs from the company.

1shoeon's picture

Actually if he is on the birth certificate and there is no court order stating otherwise they cannot legally hide medical information from your dh. If they try to deny it ask to see the injunction that blocks his legal rights to his child's medical records. This also works for school records.

Find the doctor walk in with appropriate documentation like birth certificate and request the information.

Your dh has right to request this information on his child. However, the reverse is not true. She has no legal standing. I normally recommend not representing yourself. However, if she pushes this let her. Your dh can go to court and offer his alternative and request to see the child's medical. If she does have legal injunctions this just makes her more on an ass. Shows that she is being difficult and not allowing "involvement". This can be played in his favor.

You might need the child's social security number. Go down to the SS office (or have your dh apply on-line) for a duplicate card. She will never know. He will need to know maiden name of mom.

Also fork out the money for a copy of birth certificate.

CaveCanem's picture

Thank you for your replies. Yes, a paternity test has been done and yes unfortunately it's 99.9% his child. We do have the child's SSN and getting a copy of the BC is easy.

In this state the insurance company told us because she has sole legal and sole physical, she IS able to block my husband, although it makes no sense because originally the insurance company told us that they cannot block a parent regardless of custody status. Plus there is nothing in the court order about blocking him access. If anything, we have called the cops on her for harassment, we have NEVER harassed her. I have never confronted her!

The Dr. office won't even confirm the child is a patient, although I am (supposed) to be listed as the subscriber to the insurance. I do know that's where the child goes though because my HR was at least able to confirm the PCP for me. We are thinking she must have told the insurance company that my husband was threatening or something because she has made false allegations of that. Again, my husband won't talk to her unless it's through an attorney because she is 100% irrational, so NO hostility he has always been bland and neutral in any discussion, which 95% of them have been all electronic for the paper trail-the one phone call he again remained totally cool and disconnected so she couldn't use it against himThey said there were LOTS of notes in the insurance file, but all pointing they cannot give ANY information to me (understandable) AND my husband. He's waiting for the next court date, which it's looking like there will be another, to address it so he doesn't have to fork out additional $.

He is ALWAYS in court because of the CS. THe order isn't even a year old! She wanted $2000 a month (at least) because she hasn't worked since 2008 and obviously wants to continue that.

We have filed a complaint with the office of civil rights in regards to access to the insurance info and that's pending. Even my HR can't understand how she was able to pull it off because the insurance rep assured me this couldn't happen. This had actually happened with our old insurance too but I had to change when my job dropped that policy.

A part of me actually really hopes this goes to court so there can be answers.

This IS a mess and a nightmare, which my husband beats himself up everyday for. Hopefully when the child is older and isn't too brainwashed (yeah good luck with that, right?) there can be contact, with the BM minimal involvement.

Oi Vey's picture

Your DH has NO contact with the child, BM has SOLE legal and physical custody, and you've gone to lawyers about getting FULL CUSTODY? Seriously??

As far as the kid's medical records, if she has sole legal, he probably can't do anything. And why does he care? He's not involved with this child AT ALL except sending a check!

CaveCanem's picture

Not for full custody, for joint legal custody. What I'm saying is the onlyl way full custody would even be entertained is if she is 100% gone from this planet. The courts automatically gave her sole legal and physical without even asking my husband what he wanted. They clearly didnt know what to do in this type of situation. No contact is actually very difficult and quite sad but is what is safest for our family. This situation sucks for everyone, everyone loses there are NO winners. And he/we do care, however due to circumstances beyond our control, this is what is best. If you had asked me this as hypothetical before I wouldn't be giving this same answer. Being in the situation is totally 100% different.

And yes he does send the $. He sends quite a lot of money for ONE child. My children even counted first in the calculations and he still parts with that much.

Oi Vey's picture

Which means he makes a decent income. Wink
I'm not sure how the court "automatically" gave BM sole legal and physical custody, unless he just didn't show for the hearing. I've never heard of that.
Look, I can only imagine what it's like for YOU to deal with this. I woulda either killed him or kicked his ass out. But this child...didn't ask to be born. Didn't ask for your DH to cheat. Didn't ask for BM to sleep with a married man. This child DESERVES two parents. Even if it's inconvenient.
Again, what would access to medical records change? Why do you want that info?

CaveCanem's picture

I'm telling you, my husband showed up to court, forked out $2500 for a lawyer (hers was free legal aid), he even put in a letter to the court and judge that he wanted to seek joint legal to at least have some say in the child's life. We are certain because of the fact he is married they gave the BM sole legal and physical. The lawyer at the time advised to let the whole thing blow over before pursuing joint custody. Just to pursue joint LEGAL custody is going to cost US almost $10K, and won't cost her a DIME because she qualifies for free legal. This has already cost us enough, I'm sorry to say.

His income on paper doesn't take into account the taxes he pays, other deductions, etc. so while it does look like he makes a decent wage, when they take out the $ his actual take home income has almost been cut in half. Not to mention he also has to part with a % of commission income as well. It's a good thing I work too, we wouldn't be doing so well if I wasn't.

LOL I thought about it...killing my husband would've meant a portion of his life insurance would've gone to the BM, and kicking him out means now my kids have a part-time father. This child has 1 parent who cares for his daily needs (BM) and 1 parent who pays for him (my husband). It's sad but it is what it is for now.

This child is losing out and my children are losing out. Again, no winners here. 2 selfish people's actions created this mess., it's about my family's safety. Dealing with BM puts my career at risk due to her lies, manipulations, and false allegations. I feel for this child from the depths of my heart, but yes we are thinking about our children first. I compare this to if my husband gave the child up for adoption. He still financially provides for the child. If the child needs more, then the BM needs to get off her ass and take care of that because my husband already pays the max. Why is it that my husband can only be the father when it comes to money, but not to inquiring what is wrong with the child?

We are concerned about the child's health if he is indeed sick. My husband is concerned about keeping his own medical info confidential. Look, we don't need to see the child's medical records. But if she is asking for his info, then my husband has the right to ask what is wrong with that child.

As far as insurance goes, it's hard to not see/have EOBs when this insurance is a deductible plan and I have to keep track of the $ spent. The state is secondary insurance for the child so she doesn't even have to pay anything out of pocket for him.

I know at first glance folks balk at what is happening, and I respect that.

Oi Vey's picture

Hmm, I guess I can see this. He didn't get any rights because he's married to someone else. What a mess.

This child WASN'T given up for adoption. As a mother, I struggle to understand how you can just say "my kids come first" when this child is their half sibling. Don't your children have the right to know their sibling?

I don't envy you, that's for sure. I would NEVER have stayed with him. Too many issues and complications.

I'm really not judging you... just kinda thinking through my typing...

As far as the insurance, if you provide it, how do YOU not get the EOB's? That's just odd.

CaveCanem's picture

Trust me, I go to therapy to deal with "my kids come first". As a mother it's an ethical dilemma that has hurt me. It's hurt my husband. Look, my children have already lost so much already. They will learn about this half-sibling when they are older and able to understand. I have to draw the line and the boundaries on how much this is going to consume me and my family.

We keep a journal and all of the correspondence so the child will hopefully be able to understand later on if he has questions.

Think of a woman who gives up her child to another person. Single people get to adopt all the time. We as a society don't look down on a woman (so much) who gives up her child for adoption.

Had I left, this issue wouldn't have gone away. I would still have to tell my kids about this, $ would still be an issue, there would just be a little less psycho involved.

It's ok, I understand at first glance this sounds absolutely horrible for the child. But there are 3 children here to think about, and as the parent of 2 of them "I" have to put my own first. Does it hurt me that my husband has also put our children first? Yes it does. But the circumstances that have happened up to this point have not helped foster or encourage a relationship with the child, and it is SAD.

Yes, it's my insurance, I pay for it, and somehow someway the BM has 100% blocked me from getting ANY EOBs. She was able to change the address so his go to her house. That's why we have the office of civil rights investigating, because the insurance company cannot tell us anything. My HR can't even find out anything! The only way we will find out is via court order, which will be happening next.

I have lost family and friends over this, so judging doesn't really hurt me as much as it used to. But know there is a whole ugly story behind the decisions that have been made.

purpledaisies's picture

Hon don't worry about a certain poster she tries this with a lot of other people. It was your bm ACTIONS that resulted in the consequences she has now and she has to live with that!

What I'm concerned with is that your bm seems to think that you have no rights to know what is going on with your own ins that you pay for. And the fact that she wants info and not saying why. The problem her is that she is NOT using her own ins and using someone elses and she HAS to follow the rules if she wants to use someone elses ins! That is the bottom line. AND she needs to get it through her head that NO ONE is going to give her info like that unless she says why! That is life 101!

Oi Vey's picture

What am I "trying?"

(And, no, she probably doesn't need to release medical info to the insured. HIPAA and everything...They're very annoying.)

skylarksms's picture

Oi Vey, maybe you haven't been in a blended family situation long enough to know this, but just because someone makes a decent income doesn't mean they pay out big bucks for CS. The reverse is also true, you don't necessarily have to make a ton of money to pay way more than is reasonable for CS.

Yes, there are guidelines but they all go to a hearing before a judge and family law judges can be prejudice against/for the BM/BF/CP/NCP.

It it were a perfect world, maybe things would be different. But if it were a perfect world, we wouldn't need a place for stepparents to come and vent.

Oi Vey's picture

I've been in a blended family for 20 years. All of which (except the last two months) we have paid CS.

purpledaisies's picture

I think he has every right to know. I mean the only reason he has nothing to do with the child is b/c of his mom! He has every right to be concern with what she will do with HIS info! She should not be able to block anything that belongs to the SM somehting is not adding up! I can see why they are questioning this and I would be doing everything I could to the answers too. Good luck

CaveCanem's picture

No one goes thru all this trouble unless something is wrong. And yes we are trying to get to the bottom of everything.

aggravated1's picture

This BM is a piece of crap-if the kid has some medical issue, but she doesn't want the father involved, then STOP TAKING HIS MONEY!!!

Some posters act like this BM has some high standards or something-if she was hell bent on doing it all on her own with no input, then you would think she would have enough pride to get a freaking job and take care of her kid with no monetary input but noooo....

Just more of the "send me my money but don't have anything to do with the kid" mentality.
These women make me sick.

CaveCanem's picture

Now had she been reasonable and rational to deal with, without the lies and manipulations, there would be a relationship and I would have accepted the child. By me staying with my husband I have no choice but to accept this child.

As it stands now, I am scared to death to ever have this child in my home, heck even to visit with him out in public. My husband only wants supervised vistations because of the BM's prior actions of lying about hostility, but she wants visits to take place at her house, with him alone. LOL yea right THAT will never happen! So it's not like that avenue hasn't been explored. So we will wait until the child is older.

CaveCanem's picture

Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate it.

The timing was perfect. She didn't really want/care about my husband, she wanted sperm connected to someone with a good job. My husband...well he was a total dumbass. Her unemployment ran out right when the child was due. She 100% lives off of the CS and welfare in a nice condo with a new car. It's always been about $ for her.

Oi Vey's picture

Gosh, where does BM live?!? If $1400 a month gets a condo and a new car, I'd be interested in moving...

CaveCanem's picture

$1400 covers her mortage (which is some type of low-income loan), the fees, her credit card bills, basic utilities, and leaves her with a teeny extra (I saw the financials). Not sure how the car works in; she got that after she got her judgement but my husband said it was definitely a newer car. Because her "income" is low enough, she gets WIC and $400 a month in food stamps. She also gets heating assistance and state healthcare (well, she's on state healthcare now because of the child, and the child gets it as secondary).

CaveCanem's picture

I would LOVE to not have the cover the child, but my insurance is much better than my husband's. In the long run, and after I did some intensive number crunching, it would have cost us more to change to his than to mine, which sucks. His plan is a $5000 family deductible and mine is $750. And his plan costs $350 more a month than mine! Plus my dental and vision are offset by my job, whereas his is full price. And it didn't make sense for him to get the teeny credit (it would've averaged to about $100 less a month). This costs us enough money, have to cut where we can.

What's wrong with her providing what is wrong with the child (and not necessarily in the form of medical records, but just a simple convo with my husband's attorney present would do) and then my husband verifying yay or nay if that is in his family? As he puts it, he's a minority so the chances of high blood pressure, diabetes, heart issues is high (statistically speaking). I understand the Dr. and the child having access to a form that lists if there is X, Y, or Z in the family, but don't see why she would need that information if she is not diagnosing and prescribing treatments to the child. I guess I just see it as what's next? Give a mouse a cookie and they ask for a refrigerator.

The restriction is so "intense" that we cannot even look up to see if/when the child was seen, etc. EOBs are not to be listed to us. Hell, I can't even call and find out where our deductible is at because any and everything that pertains to him is totally blocked! Which makes me mad because this now affects my family. She would do the same if my husband carried the policy, she already told him. Which we have no clue why she went through all the trouble to do that, which again tells us something is up.

asheeha's picture

Onmyway: I'm really curious about what you say. It seems that we live in the same state so laws are the same for us. You have to have BM's approval for medical records? From what I understand that is not the case, DH's allowed that information regardless of BM's feelings on the matter. And custody has nothing to do with it. Does your DH have a court ordered statement saying his rights have been removed?

purpledaisies's picture

In my state it is the same bm tried to keep dh out of the boys lives all together too. She tried to make the school not let dh have any info and even ban him but the school told both of them that they could not do that. The docs all told her the same thing that they can not keep anything from dh. Dh gets all the info he wants. It has nothing to do with custody or anything unless it is proven he has no rights and has given them up. I think someone is being scammed.
which is why in this case I don;t understand how the op's bm got away with blocking her and her dh. Something does not add up. And the op knows that which why they are after answers.

Oi Vey's picture

It's my understanding that "sole legal" means the other parent has no legal right to this stuff.

purpledaisies's picture

Nope that is NOT what that means. It just means that she has to take care of that stuff aka take the kids to the doc and stuff and has the right to make those decisions. It does not mean that she gets to NOT give the FATHER info.

Oi Vey's picture

Hmm, I had sole of my firstborn, and that's what it meant.
I'm guessing it may vary by state.
The state I'm in now doesn't even have sole custody.

asheeha's picture

Yeah, we are in the same state. I think they view medical and mental health differently here. We had to get BMs signature for mental health docs (didn't consult lawyer on that tho) but medical and educational are different.

And I don't think "sole" negates the other parents' rights, our BM has full physical and legal custody of the girls but DH still has rights as their dad. He beats himself up for not fighting her then, he thought it would keep the peace...nope it didn't.

I'm no lawyer tho "Oivay" but I'm pretty sure the noncustodial rights have to be legally removed and documented for a noncustodial parent to not have access to the child's medical and educational information. However, words mean different things in different states.

CaveCanem's picture

I'm in MA. Basically they removed virtually all his right minus if he wanted to pursue visitation, but with the BM's threats and false allegations we both decided it was not in anyone's best interest. Apparently here if she has sole legal/sole physical he is nothing more than a walking checkbook.

CaveCanem's picture

apparenly, to her EVERYTHING and that's all that matters with her having legal custody, she doesn't HAVE to have a reason.......just because.


Well then she can't get mad that he doesn't want to give up his information to her. He offered a resolution, she doesn't like it, well then I guess there is no resolution. She talked about filing with the courts to get the info, she can go right ahead. But chances are she will have to disclose then.


which is honestly why i wouldn't put kiddo on my insurance, ALSO if SHE has a cheaper insurance you CAN have the courts look at that and get it modified that SHE covers insurance, and dh pays his portion of the coverage. (i did that voluntarily)


She doesn't work, hasn't worked since 2008. She had the child on state insurance before he was added to mine (which is why he still has it as secondary) and honestly I wish they had just kept him on it. But the state wanted him off and ordered my husband to provide it, which is why we are here now. The chances of her going back to work anytime soon is slim to none.

CaveCanem's picture

Thanks! Yes we have saved EVERYTHING, every single contact/every text message. My husband's lawyer said HIPAA protects both the child and him, so if no one wants to budge then no one budges.

With everything that has happened recently, again I'm hoping she hauls him to court. She's dug herself a pretty good hole and has made herself look pretty stupid.

I have a family plan so adding the child didn't cost me extra and at least the good thing about the restriction is I will never get a bill! But again the state even pays the $20 copays so she gets to still pay zilch.

asheeha's picture

The BM in my DH life has tried to keep medical and educational documents away because she has sole legal custody. But that doesn't matter, if he's the father (with or without custody) then he has rights, a federally mandated right to see his child's educational records (FERPA) and I haven't seen a state that didn't allow access to medical records. The only way around it is if she has been able to prove, legally, that he has lost those rights.

That is the ONLY legal way he can be kept from that information.

The small town school my skids are enrolled at didn't understand this and wouldn't give us any info because he's a non-custodial dad. We had our lawyer send him the paperwork proving that this was his legal right and they could not infringe upon it. They now send us all of the skids progress reports directly and DH has access to all school activities and teachers.

BM also grudgingly gave up medical information because she "had to".

Something is not adding up and people who say that because he doesn't have custody he doesn't have access have no idea what the laws for non-custodial parents are.

You will probably have to get your lawyers involved and find out why you don't have access to this information. If she's given a false document stating he's lost his paternal rights then that is fraud, if they are simply ignorant of the laws then your lawyer can quickly get that resolved.

I don't envy the drama you are going through. My mantra, "this too shall pass". Best wishes to you and yours.

CaveCanem's picture

There is NOTHING In the court order that states he cannot have access. She was pissed at court and wanted the kid to stay on state aid because she didn't want me to have access to the child's info. The judge told her oh well.

Update: The insurance company said my husband has to prove there is nothing blocking him, so he is going to the courthouse next week to file something. I tried to call the insurance to get an update on our deductible because i'm planning out some dental work I need done, and they would not release it because of the restriction! Then how in the hell am I supposed to keep track of our expenses?!?

As for her trying to get that form...well, I guess she can address it there and then.

asheeha's picture

WOW! :jawdrop:

overit2's picture

Cavecanem-I'm sorry that someone is attacking your choice to not be involved in the childs life.

Honestly-and after seeing quite a few cases like this I really think you guys are doing what is best for all parties involved. It's either all of you suffering, or one...and even w/the one-who's to say the mom doesn't get involved w/someone and he has positive male role models/stepfather figure in his life to be 'dad'.

Many women raise kids w/out the other parent. They both messed up, and yes the kid pays the price...but I put that a lot on the crazy BM honestly.

You're doing the right thing for YOUR family-and YES, your FAMILY comes first. You've decided to stay and not disrrupt your childrens lives and are working through it-many people do. Don't feel guilt over that decision either.

I don't know what to say about the medical reports, not sure the legalities of it all...however I do not recommend the free legal advice forums, it's incredibly hostile there.

Let her take you to court and defend yourself if need be.

CaveCanem's picture

Thank you. It's different when you go into a relationship knowing there are's another when you aquire one along the way. I can't say that I would have settled down with a man with a crazy BM in the picture.

I said it a few times before, there are NO winners in this at all. All the kids are losing out. My kids lost out on money and valuable time because my husband is constantly fighting court stuff, working overtime to pay the lawyer, etc. The other child loses more, but my children's quality of life has diminished due to no fault of theirs or mine.

Our "dream" come true would be that the BM finds a warm, loving man who is willing to adopt the child and he has a chance at a normal life. But sadly, I'm pretty certain with the BM's mental state that will never happen. But one can be hopeful, because that would be the best case scenario.

And I don't find it hostile Smile If anything I actually do find it all informative.