How blunt are you with skids in re: to BM/BD? (long)
I think this is a touchy subject for a lot of people.
I am a very honest and blunt person by nature. If someone lies to me or distorts the truth to me, I call them out. I have no problem telling people that I don't believe them. I am not ashamed to give my thoughts about things either. I don't go around acting like an a$$shole all the time, but I also don't let much get past me.
Here's the problem: BM has really stepped up the bullshit with the kids. She has taken to telling them half-truths about why she doesn't contact them or attend/participate in things that are special to them. Example - she teaches a night class (we think - that could be a lie) and has told the kids that she can't call because of her class. Well, she could, but she chooses not to. She knows that we pick up the kids at a certain time every day and there is a window of time for her to call them. Instead, she will either not call at all or call after their bedtime so that they have to be roused. They are usually just at the point of dozing off, but they fight to stay awake to hear from her. She makes out like it is physically impossible to call. They wait and wait on the off chance she will speak to them, but most times she doesn't. When they relay how sad it is that mommy "can't call because she HAS to do her class" It makes my skin crawl. Lately we have been really working with them on organization and time management, so I finally got fed up and said that "mommy CAN call you, but she didn't - maybe she will be organized next time and make time to talk to you - she knows when your bedtime is"
She also, quite often "HAS to go out to dinner with her friends and can't call"!!! I call bullshit. A goodnight phone call doesn't take more than 2 or 3 minutes, if it is important - an it is - to the kids. I have gotten fed up with this crap - saying that "maybe she will remember to call before dinner", or "maybe she will call quickly - she knows what time you go to bed."
I can imagine the backlash this will get - hear me out - I do not say this or things like this with any edge or emotion. I do not tell them so that they will be angry with her or to hurt their feelings. I simply believe that they should realize that THEY have choices. that everyone has choices and that they can choose to do what it important to them. They act like little prisoners sometimes. They won't get food out of the cabinets without asking - and will sit around hungry for hours without saying a word. I am not sure why, the best I can come up with is that they are so used to being ordered around and having everything done for them that they don't feel capable. On top of this BM farms them out to everyone under the sun in the name of "playdates" and "sleepovers" then goes on and on about how unfair it is that they will be with us for several weekends in a row BECAUSE OF THE COURT SCHEDULE SHE INSISTED ON - they were both very sad because she has made out to them over the last several visits to her house how upset she is that they will be gone - YET she is planned to go out of town on the few regular nights she still has with them. I have commented several times over the last week or two that they WILL STILL SEE HER - she has them thinking that she will not see them at all.
When we talked to them we finally explained that mommy went to the court and asked the judge to tell her and daddy which holidays they can spend at each house and that she knew that they were going to be at our house extra sometimes when she asked the judge to make up the calendar. We explained that she couldnt agree with daddy like they used to (when they asked why BM and BD didn't just keep making the arrangements themselves)They were so upset not understanding why. As usual she didn't give them any explanation or comfort about the matter. We also explained that their would be times when they would be at her house for several weekends in a row, that the judge made it as fair as he could.
My fiance agrees that they should know these things - I don't discuss these types of things without talking to him about it first or having him present. We want to make sure the information they are getting is age appropriate and not bashing her to them. We just feel like some things need to be said. I suspect that she is really making them feel guilty about enjoying their time at our house. They both seem to be clingy on her right now - can't say why. (do 7 yo boys and 9 yo girls go through a mommy clingy stage???)
So - how blunt is everyone else? My fiance and I both feel like we are doing our best to teach them skills they will need to be productive adults, but it seems like we are having to play some kind of sick game. I am pretty sure he agrees 100% that we can't just sit back and not respond to the things she says to deliberately mislead them. (and upset them!)
We do it like you describe.
We don't really mention BM much, unless it's to say that sometimes grown-ups disagree and that she sees things differently than we do. We will talk about our point of view. We'd never say, "Your mother won't let Daddy have you for visitation." But we most definitely WOULD say, "Daddy tried to call several times to make arrangements to pick you up, but no one answered the phone or returned his call." I think you're handling it fine. I don't think we need to badmouth the other parent, but I also don't think we need to let kids believe a lot of uglies about us. Sometimes you really do have to defend yourself, not to explain your own actions, but to combat the lies that get told about you.
♥ Georgia ♥
"Good men don't just happen. They have to be created by us women." (from ROSEANNE)
I am moderately honest actually, DH is more blunt
Because SD is behaving inappropriately, and it is encouraged by BM to a degree, DH is very blunt. Too much sometimes, but I leave that up to him. I am more subtle. When BM didn't take SD last week because BM was busy having a mental breakdown and didn't even call to tell us she wasn't coming, I simply told SD she didn't feel well. SD put enough together to comment, "She still could have called." Then when BM called Monday to talk to SD because apparently she changed her mind about never seeing SD again (didn't tell SD that part) SD asked BM if she could come over that night to make up for the last Wed. I couldn't hear BM but could tell she said no. Then later in the conversation SD kept asking BM what she was doing that night. BM kept replying nothing. So I do think SD is putting stuff together, but because she knows how much we dislike her mom (that's no secret) she doesn't want to contribute right now. I say right now because she will at some point be abandoned by this woman and then she will turn to me. I know, her psychologist knows it. The Dr said to let this happen just be ready to take her back under my wing when it does.
I don't know if I can stand THAT roller coaster ride much more, but if SD actually would just show some improvement in learning from her mistakes I would do it.
Peace, love, and red wine
We are also blunt....
but we try to be as tactful as possible as well. Anything said about BM seems to lean toward "bashing".....depends on which side of the fence you're on.
One SS lives with us while his twin brother and his sister live with BM. SS constantly questions us (me mostly) about why his "BM says this or does that???" He's 11 and nobody's dummy. His BM is unable to "fool" or "brainwash" or "scare" this particular child and this is another reason he now lives with us....(BM sent him here)and why he is constantly questioning BM's behavior.
I believe no matter how much our SK's seem to "favor" their birth parent with their "loyalty".....they "see" their BM's bad behavior but they are still children and feel they have no control except to accept them as they are.
BTW, Silversomething....if the kids are already in bed, why wake them?? I know that kids should be able to talk to their BM but maybe she needs a reality check. Why let her interrupt the children's sleep...just because she's too selfish to consider that they may be in bed?? Deny her this "privilege" and maybe she'll start being less selfish and start considering the children.
"SOME PEOPLE WEREN'T MEANT TO HAVE CHILDREN"
If they are already asleep
If they are already asleep we don't wake them, in fact we don't even answer the phone. The problem is that they lie awake straining to hear the phone, and so when she calls within a few minutes of their bedtime (15 mins give or take) they are still awake. SD ALWAYS wakes her brother up to talk even though we have told her not to. BM has been told to call the cell so that we can screen a little better, but she will immediately call the landline if the other phone isn't answered.
don't get me started - she just pissed me off royally. I really have nothing good to say about her right now.
Always a Reason
SD always has some kind of explanation for her mother's bad behavior. She always makes excuses for her.
Because of that we try NOT to be critical of BM. Because we can both see SD trying to come up with a reason. Even completely illogical reasons will suffice for SD. For a couple months, SD tried calling BM every now and then during the two weeks in between her visits. BM would either not pick up the phone, or pick up and say she was too busy to talk and then not call SD back. SD would rationalize with "my mom doesn't have a lot of minutes on her phone so she can't talk to me." And that seemed to be a legitimate excuse to SD.
Rather than forcing SD to try to rationalize her mother's behavior, we try to just not mention things as much as possible. It can be REALLY hard sometimes no to say something! Especially when SD is talking about how great it is that her BM just bought two new SUVs. I want to tell her how irresponsible it is to spend money like that when you don't have it. But then we go into SD defending BM mode. Which I hate.
I tell it like it is. If
I tell it like it is. If that means saying I don't know or you're not old enought to know, so be it. Little girl is 7 little man is 9... same ages as yours. The ask sometimes about BM, and I just reply with what facts I know. When they ask why she did/didn't do something... I give them what I think and then tell them that if they want to know for sure they need to ask their momma. {this response was interupted by a call from BM... imagine the irony}
As for the goodnight call from BM, could you tell the kids that if she doesn't call by 15 minutes before bedtime that they can call her.... if she doesn't answer they can leave her a message and then the ball is in her court, not the kids, not yours.
I made the mistake of "sheilding" my son from something his BF was being irresponsible about (CS). It blew up in my face. EX was arrested and son found out in school. I learned my lesson.... he wasn't mad about me going through the court, he was mad about me not telling him. I can respect that.
Now DH and I tell the kids the truth... up front and not shy about it. We do keep it age appropriate. We leave our opinions out of the equation unless our opinion is asked.
My HB and I
struggle with this concerning his kids. I tend to be blunt and he tends to be passive. He continues even today to allow BM to lie and him take all the blame. I absolutely do not tolerate my ex lieing to our kids and then them pointing the finger at me. I immediately tell them the truth and then get him on the speaker phone w/ the kids listening. That's happened maybe twice since our divorce and my ex doesn't do that any more. It always infuriates me when HB allows BM to manipulate their kids. As you all have said the skids tend to make excuses for their moms. It sucks. I believe that one day my skids will get their heads out of fantasy mommy land and see her for what she really is.
My kids biggest cheerleader