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Well, this is enlightening. From the POV of someone with NPD.

moving_on_again's picture

I always suspected that BM was never happy. It's interesting to read this perspective. No, it's not BM. She can barely type a text. 

https://www.quora.com/Are-narcissists-really-as-miserable-as-people-clai...

Are narcissists really as miserable as people claim? They seem to be happy and succeed in life at all times.

Lucy Langdon, Narcissist

Answered Feb 25

I’ll answer from my experience.

Rarely do I ever feel happiness or satisfaction. Sure, I can and do pretend to, but it’s all a lie that I sometimes even trick myself into believing. Inside I mostly just feel emptiness, anger, a lot of fear, hatred, and a bottomless pit of shame.

My NPD screwed me out of success. Guess what happens when you are so afraid of feeling shame that you can’t admit you’re wrong even though everything around you is going wrong? You drive yourself further into the ground doing the same stupid things like blaming others for your mistakes, avoiding, acting like an arrogant ass, lying… until you completely self destruct. I’m trying to change and make things better, but it seems I just unconsciously sabotage my success any chance I get. Then I wonder why I’m failing and blame the world.

Being a narcissist has made my interpersonal life an absolute shit show. I end up hurting every single person I ever get close to. My relationships follow the same pattern every goddamn time. I’m aware of the pattern, yet I still go through it. It’s humilating, really. Idealize, devalue, discard. I even do it to close friends. I’m trying to change this, and there’s part of me that knows I’ll die alone and never be able to love someone as they deserve to be loved if I don’t. I honestly want love so badly, but I seem to destroy it any time it comes my way. I end up hurting good people who don’t deserve to be hurt at all because I’m so fucked up inside and am embarrassingly oblivious to my behavior and my effect on people.

Also, my parents are narcissists. The fact that I grew up to be just like my abusive mom and dad sits horribly with me. I have to live with the shame of that everyday.

In my experience as a narcissist, yes I’m miserable. The worst part about it is that, aside from my childhood trauma and cptsd issues, my misery is self induced. The thing that causes my misery (my NPD) is the same thing that blinds me from clearly seeing and accepting that it’s self induced. If I can’t see the problem, then I sure as hell can’t see the solution. I only just realized that as I typed it. At this point, I desperately want change.

For me, being a narcissist isn’t happiness and success at all. That may be what I present to the world and what I wish with every ounce of my soul to be real, but my reality is exactly opposite. No matter how many people validate me, it’s never enough. Nothing is ever enough.

I’m babbling on about my feelings, but I hope this gives you an answer to your question.

 

There are more questions she answers about narcissim but I haven't the time to read them yet. 

Comments

LimaPapa's picture

She's exceptional and should be studied.  It's argued there is no 'cure' for NPD because the person doesn't believe there is anything wrong with them. This girl realizes she has problems, and would like to change. Very unusual for NPD.

I was talking with a grief counselor once about my sister who is textbook NPD and she said the only cure for a narc is a bullet. Harsh and a little shocking, but it's true.  I've always described my sister as less than human.  

I've learned the signs and if I get an itchy NPD feeling right or wrong I stay as far away from that person as possible. They seems to be attracted to me.

moving_on_again's picture

It is remarkable that she is able to recognize it in herself. NPDs don't like me because I just speak the truth....their enemy. Also, I believe BM is Borderline Personality Disorder with Narcissistic traits. She is very self-conscious and has low self-esteem but pretends not to. You can read it in her body languarge, though. 

strugglingSM's picture

Same with the BM in my life. She has “borderline tendencies”, but has never been diagnosed. She also shows signs of narcissism, but ultimately she’s a self-conscious bully with a fragile ego, who of course, thinks all her problems are due to others, never herself. I told DH that divorce was the best thing that ever happened to BM, because now she can blame DH for everything that goes wrong in her life, even things that have nothing to do with him. Of course, MIL, who is sort of narcissistic herself and who has always somewhat of a bully to DH (even though he is her only child who never turned away from her, even when he should have), believes BM and blames DH.

BM is also creating both SSs in her image (like the person in the post above). They already blame others for everything and take zero responsibility for anything.

moving_on_again's picture

I am sincerely thankful that DH's kids don't seem to have BM's tendencies. Well, except the constant lying. However, I don't think I've ever heard them blame someone else for their problems. 

Iamwoman's picture

Wow. This is truly interesting to read from the narc’s POV.

The “nothing is ever good enough or nothing is ever enough” is something I’ve seen over and over again in the narcs I’ve dealt with. They are draining, destructive, people.

Its sad they never feel happiness. It explains why when I feel pure joy, the narcs in my life do everything in their power to shut it down if they know about it. I’ve actually had to hide excioand happiness from the people around me, because I know they will attack me if they sniff out my inner joy.

I attract narcs too, LimaPapa. I wonder if it’s because at first they want to be emotional vampires to our joy (I am naturally serene and a basically happy person - I wake up happy every morning until someone around me brings me down). I am betting you’re joyful as well?

moving_on_again's picture

YES! I have always said this is why BM hates me. A "friend" of BM's (I use quotations because these "friends" never last long) starting dating a friend of mine. A group (maybe 10) of us were hanging out and BM's friend asked my best friend if I "was always so happy?" What a weird freaking question! Apparently misery loves company and that's why BM and this gal were "friends" in the first place. Also, BM HATES that DH is happy. It kills her. BM told the skids that I have had every thing handed to me in life and got it easy. Crazy B. She was a stay-at-home mom when she was with DH for 8 years while sleeping with at least 10 other guys. I was a single mom at 17 that had to move back in with my parents to not be homeless, got a bachelor's degree, and was called for my job because the person hiring knew I was dependable and smart. BM is so jealous it kills her. 

Iamwoman's picture

Dup

moving_on_again's picture

I am not a religious woman but Lord help us both. I am out of the step game for the most part, thankfully. However, one more football season and one more graduation to get through. 

LimaPapa's picture

I try to be positive as much as possible and I feel like I'm generally pretty happy and uplifting. I also tend to be a little too giving ( a narc's dream.)    My sister could suck the life out of a room in a nanosecond. I would catch her mocking my emotions and mouthing words like she was in a movie script. Once I finally had enough of her and told her she was making me miserable she dropped me like a hot potato.  I have been solid no contact with her for 10 years now. And honestly, it was the best thing I've ever done.  When a new acquaintance asks me about my family I don't even acknowledge her existence.  Trying to explain why I don't have contact with her is wayyyy harder than pretending she doesn't exist. Because folks who have never encountered a narc can't grasp the crazy. 

moving_on_again's picture

Nope. Some of my family have judged me regarding my complete disregard for BM. One aunt said, "Is it just because she was married to your husband?" I was like, "No, it's because she threatened to kill me and makes up stories about me daily that involve me being the town whore. I would let his second wife live with us if she needed to." The lady who wrote this, Laura, said that one of her main ways of hurting people was to project what she hated about herself on them. Yep. That's BM. 

strugglingSM's picture

My sister bullied me for my entire childhood. When I was born, she threw a rattle at me while I was still in the hospital, pinched me on the whole ride home and never stopped from that point on. She loves to tell stories about all the times she was mean to me when I was small, including her favorite about how she supposedly convinced me to trade my Barbie doll for one she’d ruined when I was two. She tells that story as if I was the idiot who believed her that the Barbie was better and agreed to the trade, before my mom intervened and made her keep her Barbie.

She was constantly name calling, hitting me when she’d see me at school, leaving me at school when we were in high school together, etc.

Needless to say, we were never close. As I got older,8 tolerated her, but never considered her a sister. She is constantly belittling and making fun of others - usually me or my mother at family functions.

After I met DH, I knew he wanted to propose and he had not met my parents, yet, so he and I flew out to meet them. I didn’t include her in the dinner with my parents because honestly, I find her to be mean, disruptive, and attention-seeking. I did, however, ask her if she wanted to meet DH and I for lunch while we were in town. Over the course of that trip, she cancelled our lunch plans and told me to go F&$k myself because - as she claimed - I was being a big jerk for not having her join my parents at dinner. Mind you, before bringing DH home with me, I had made many trips home and she had never wanted to have dinner with us. Also, I had been on a family trip three months prior and she was rude and belittling to me and my mother.

I told her that I apologized if she felt excluded, but really my intent was to let my parents have time to really get to know DH because I knew he wanted to propose.

She basically told me that I was a terrible person because I wanted to keep her away because I thought she would be rude (note, I did not say this to her, she said it herself) and that she knew she had been a terrible sister, but she had changed. Really, I think she was just upset that I had a serious boyfriend / was getting married, because she’s older. Also,I was fine with never getting married and she always wanted to be married, but is still single.

She has ignored me since then. Literally turning her back to me at Christmas. She’s also been super mean to my mom, but really my mom didn’t step in when she should have - when my sister was a child - to correct her behavior.

DH gives me crap about it and says he’s going to help us reconcile, but I explain to him that I never had a relationship with my sister, so I don’t miss it.

I think that’s part of the reason why I have not even one iota of tolerance for BM, because she has the same bullying, victim-playing tendencies as my sister.

moving_on_again's picture

Gee - I wonder why she can't get a boyfriend! 

Wow - I really do think that narcs like BM enjoy belittling people. She called MSD fat in front of me once about a year ago. BM easily weighs twice what MSD weighs. MSD is not fat. I think BM was trying to show me how much "power" she thinks she has over MSD when all it did was make me sad for MSD. I always tell her she is very pretty. She really is. MSD asked me once, "why doesn't my mom love me?" I'd just gotten back from a law conference were they were discussing PAS and Borderline Personality. Boy, did I unleash the truth on MSD. One of the few things I told her was that most likely her mom was incapable of love. 

moving_on_again's picture

What's funny, is the way I talk about BM makes me sound like the Narcissist. Like I really believe I am so much better than her. Narcissists believe they are better than everyone. I honestly think that everyone has a chance in this world. Not like we can all become millionaires or something but we can make something of ourselves and be respectable productive humans in society. BM just doesn't choose that or is unable to because of her disorders. She went to court-ordered family therapy a couple with her new husband, her kids and her skids, because she is violent. The therapist said, "Why are you here?" BM said, "Because of (her) SD!" BM had attacked the girl who was 10-11 at the time and left a large bruise on her back from slamming her into a chair. Yet, it was SD's fault. The therapist straight up said, "We don't place the blame on others for our own reactions." I wish I knew her name, I'd hug her. I heard all this because BM's SD told her biological mom who I am friends with. 

Also, if you click on the link that girl answers more questions that were pretty enlightening as well! 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Fascinating, just fascinating. And I agree with LimaPapa that this woman should be studied.

My husband's eldest daughter is a  narc. Being analytical and an overthinker, I could never understand her way of being in the world. I guess in part she's wired that way (mental instability on both BM's and DH's sides) and then none of the adults in her life ever corrected or guided her. I have never experienced anyone quite like her, and the description of anger and emptiness is spot on.

I'll be chewing on this for a good while. Thanks for sharing.

moving_on_again's picture

If you go to the link, she answers more questions that are pretty fascinating, too. It actually freaked me out how much it was like actually knowing most likely how BM thinks. The author admits she only thinks of herself. What's also interesting is that she won't give a lot of details. I suspect she was much meaner than she is letting on but still doesn't want to admit that. 

LimaPapa's picture

Her other answers were scary.  And she scored a 40/40 on the narc test.  I took it and scored a 3/40. 

moving_on_again's picture

I found a test and I scored a 7/40. Not sure if it's the same one, though. It was pretty obvious which answer was going to make you score as a narcissist. I still answered honeslty. What's funny is - the narcissist answers - I really do believe BM thinks those things such as "I can manipulate people into doing what I want," and "I can make people believe what I am telling them." But we don't. If you know her for more than 6 months, you quickly learn she is not good at those things although I think she still believes she is. 

moving_on_again's picture

This is the same test I took. 

I have no idea HOW I became a Quora member and I have had several friends say that, too! However, I kind of like it but it's a time waste if you let it be. 

LimaPapa's picture

I used to be a member, and yes I wasted a lot of time on there.  They suddenly starting making you use your real name and you can be searched so I just creep now LOL 

There are some very interesting folks on there. 

SacrificialLamb's picture

I get the Quora questions on this topic too and just read this over lunch. I have a lot of narcissists in my life including my own father and OSD. It's interesting to see some of the questions and answers on this topic, but usually the advice is no one can win, and stay away! Some times you don't have a choice, I guess. 

moving_on_again's picture

I thought that was very insightful for her to say that. However, what was frightening is that she said that she treated her best friend like crap and then her best friend got everyone to hate her. I think the actual case is that the best friend told others the truth and they decided staying away from the author was best. She still can't see that! 

futurobrillante99's picture

That is a very saddening story and I know my stbX feels that kind of pain. He knows he's messed up but the idea of digging through all his issues is just too painful. I understand. He sent me a separation agreement, today. Lawyer says it checks out and I'm covered. So I'm going to sign it and send it back to him so he can file for divorce.

While he would certainly enjoy me loving him, I can't help but stand up for myself, so being with me would be a very painful experience for him. He can't help himself - he will continue to hurt me and hate himself for it.

moving_on_again's picture

I hate to say it because I know you are greiving for the relationship but congratulations. I read your last blog earlier but didn't comment and I am so happy that you are getting yourself back. I know it's not nearly as painful as it was for you but it was painful for all of us to read those blogs and you knew what you needed to do but you just couldn't give up. I think you definitely need to stick around here. There are people out there that need to know that they can be and will be happy if they walk away. 

I know that BM has a lot of childhood trauma. I suspect her father is a Narcissist as well and her mom is extremly submissive but also can be violent when provocked enough. BM seriously suffers from daddy issues. She talks about how she is the favorite of her father's constantly. BM's own father has said things to DH that certainly prove that is not true. Dad has bailed her out more times than I can count and has called her "crazy" and said that "no one can control her." Not in an empowering way, meaning that she is often out of control and it's best to just stand back and let authorities deal with it. I think this is why she basically hates all men. Especially men she can't control. 

Iamwoman's picture

I finally got a chance to read through some of Lindsey's Answers to people's questions.

 

I’m not on quora anymore as quite frankly, I found many answers (not just Lindsey’s) disturbing, and it bothered me to see such piss poor advice being passed to vulnerable people by the masses.

Here is my question though:

I am a strong believer in nature over nurture (I dare say most STalkers are too after seeing and dealing with so much mini-BM/BD spawn that just seem to be who they are, regardless of various attempts at parenting tactics).

That being said, I’ve read Lindsey’s accounts of the “abuse” she has endured as a child, and although some of the things done to her by her parents were extreme, is it possible that her parents were trying their best and sometimes lost control of their tempers as an effect of raising a narcissistic child??

I wonder if part of Lindsey’s therapy will eventually lead to her realization that she made her parents’ lives a living hell as a result of her ongoing narcissistic traits?

There are several things that seem to indicate this to be true:

1. She is currently / has been living with her parents all summer this summer, indicating that she is probably in college (kudos to parents for getting her that far), and that her parents care for her well being enough to provide for her during the summer.

2. She can’t afford a place to live, yet somehow can afford therapy, indicating that her parents most likely are paying for this therapy (showing once again they care for her but are at the end of their ropes).

3. There was never any physical abuse. The closest to physical abuse mentioned is her mom holding her down one time and making Lindsey acknowledge her dominance (weird, but maybe an act of desperation to control an unruly teen?), and her father chasing her to her room and “jiggling the doorknob” (yet never entering the room... if it were HCBD, he would have, and has, jimmied the locked door open with a knife and physically attacked his daughter). This father simply asked his daughter with incredulousness if she thought he was going to hit her. Her answer (which according to Lindsey was a “fear based lie” was “no” despite her father NEVER having ever hit her. Ever. How is this abuse?

She briefly mentioned sexual abuse in one of her posts, but it got no deeper than the mere mention, which makes me recall HCBM. HCBM constantly claims that my DH used to abuse her, yet has zero evidence. My DH is the last person in the world who would abuse anybody, as his empathy and compassion is very high. I doubt this girl Lindsey was sexually abused... it seems more like she might be a victim of society’s “me too” bandwagon.

 

Whether or not our own three children are narcissistic remains to be seen since children are essentially egocentral, diagnoses can’t be made until adulthood. 

However, I WILL say that when any of our three children act in the way a narcissist would act, it makes parenting nearly impossible. 

The sad part, is that while I don’t think Lindsey’s therapist is doing Lindsey any favors by encouraging her to blame all of her problems on her parents, who obviously still care for her enough to support her... I do think the therapist is doing Lindsey’s parents a favor in a roundabout manner.

If Lindsey thinks of her parents as “abusive,” she may pull away from them or even cut them off, giving those poor folks a probably much-needed break from their high maintenance, “nothing is ever enough”, “it’s your fault not mine,” daughter.

moving_on_again's picture

That was something I noticed in Lindsey's answers, too. She never wants to "go in to details." Which to me is a red flag that she wants to say she was abused but if she actually describes it, she knows that people will possibly tell her she wasn't. I didn't get that far into reading more about her childhood, that was just the stuff that I read about her own narcissism. However, it is par for the course for a narcissist to blame everything on everyone else. She's definitely validating the diagnosis. 

Iamwoman's picture

Yep yep! My DD has been abused but does not like to mention it ever, and if anything, she downplays it. She just wants her life to be “nice” and to forget the unpleasantness.

I totally get this, but can’t understand people who exaggerate abuse claims.

 

moving_on_again's picture

BM abused all her children but they won't talk about it. They are the same, they pretend like it never happened. Although that could be partially because BM has trained them from Day 1 to not speak of BM's transgressions.