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Would this be considered contempt? Or something else?

justmakingthebest's picture

I am calling the layer again this morning. BM is refusing to tell us who YSS's doctor is and who diagnosed him with Elhors Danlos (Failry debilitating autoimmune disease that there is no way in hell that he actually has). The court order granting joint medical and legal custody has only been signed for 7 days and she is already acting like a fool. We know this is just like the "Heart condition" that he had last year. She has a sickness in her own mind in which she wants her kids to be sick and dependent on her. There is NOTHING wrong with SS. 

I know she has to tell SO who the doctors are. What happens if she refuses? 

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nengooseus's picture

And then the judge will compel her to provide the name of the treating physician(s).  He likely won't actually find her in contempt, but at least she can get a talking to.

Ispofacto's picture

Contempt is a long, drawn out process.  Most likely she'd have to refuse multiple times, and even defy the judge.  It would cost megabucks.  She could be held accountable for fees, but good luck collecting them.

I would document this and keep it for the custody hearing.  People can think she's got munchausen's by proxy without actually saying it outloud or making a formal diagnosis or ruling.  Generally common sense people know it is not a good idea to tell a kid he has a disease he doesn't have.  I would have your lawyer require her to bring the proof to court, or she will still claim he has it.  But if BM lives in a Golden Uterus county, nothing you can do will matter, common sense doesn't exist in Uterusland.

nengooseus's picture

Where I am, a contempt charge is actually pretty quick, and no pattern is needed in a situation like this.

DH filed a contempt charge against BM because she didn't drop the skids off "at the release of school" for Thanksgiving.  She wasn't convicted, but the judge gave her a talking to and damned skippy, she hasn't been late since.

justmakingthebest's picture

Thanks! Waiting to hear back from the lawyer. He is usually quick. I have his personal cell # at this point since we have had so many issues. I guess I will ask him if we should bring it up at the april hearing or if we should do something before hand so that we have some sort of ruling or reference for the april hearing. 

notsofast's picture

EDS is one of the things I have.  It is not autoimmune, but a genetic problem with connective tissues.  To be properly diagnosed you must have seen a geneticist who specializes in it.  There are less than a dozen specialists across the country and many won't diagnose children because some of the symptoms exist in children who don't actually have it.

There are many subtypes but by far the most common is hypermobile type.  Is your SS super flexible?  Can bend in strange ways and directions?  (we call them "party tricks" and they are actually dangerous for us to do because our ligaments and joints can overstretch.) Has funny looking scars?  It's also far more common in women than men and someone in the family 99.9% of the time has similar symptoms if it's EDS because it's a genetic disorder.

I doubt it's a diagnosis of EDS.  I don't know how old your SS is, but it's a disorder that often doesn't get diagnosed until middle age (30+) because it's rare, most doctors don't recognize it and some of the main criteria are normal in childhood (like being highly flexible), but not normal in adulthood so it is very murky with children.

justmakingthebest's picture

No, he has none of those symptoms. Everthing I read classifies it as autoimmune (which is a very broad range classification, I realize). He isn't super flexible, he doesn't have brusing issues, trouble healing, scars, "milky skin", sensitive skin, chronic pain-so on and so on and  so on. SS is 12 and I am SURE that he has no formal diagnosis. The problem that we truly have is that this is the 2nd diagnosis she has convinced the kid he has in the last year. The cardiologist told her nothing was wrong with him, but we had to get back into court to make her send him on the cruise we paid for days before we were leaving. This is just another stunt by her to try and prevent SS from seeing SO. --- The truly disgusting part of it all is that SO is a great dad.

notsofast's picture

She is witholding vital medical information.  If he truly has EDS then he should not be in sports, he needs to be managed in certain ways and limit outdoor play activities and he may need to be on certain medications for some of the associated symptoms.  Asking for medical information with a diagnosis like this is not only normal, it's responsible. 

If she is witholding that from your SO, that's a medical neglect situation.  If she's making it up, that's a child abuse situation.  I have worked with DFPS for many years, although I no longer do.  I had cases that were munchausen by proxy and it is child abuse.

They won't remove the child or even likely investigate it heavily on the first report unless there have been other reports made before this.  But you start to establish a pattern and they will get involved later on.

justmakingthebest's picture

So, she does have him play sports year round- Baseball, basketball, track and football. He also has a dirt bike that he rides around town. So... Just a thought to bring up with the lawyer... Calling DCFS to report child abuse may be a step in this whole thing? Because either she is making up illnesses or putting him at risk? 

The way I see it, she is lying one way or the other and causing harm to the child in the process either way. The reality is that she is making it up, but it is causing damage to SS.

notsofast's picture

She can't have it both ways.  He can't have a heart condition or EDS and be in all these activties safely at the same time, unless a doctor says all of the above.  "He has a heart condition and/or EDS but with these precautions I feel safe with him in *these* activities."  As his parent your SO has a right to talk to the doctor, ask questions of the doctor and has the responsibility to understand his medical conditions so that you don't put him at risk.

This is assuming we take her word on it and she's telling the truth.

No matter whether she is telling the truth or not, your SO needs to be able to talk to the doctor.  But DCFS would be a way to get an outsider to investigate the situation as an outside third party, request medical records etc.  You and I could be wrong, maybe a doctor told her he has EDS.  But if it's not a specialist saying it, your SO needs to request a specialist/geneticist see him anyway.  Generalists are not good at this diagnosis.

BTW EDS has been in the new lately related to the Larry Nassar case.  He used EDS as an excuse for some of his "exams".  Most people had not heard of it before then.  She could have heard about it in conjunction with this case.

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

Yes it's contempt and if you can show a repeated record of these falus claims you might have a path to show abuse. 

justmakingthebest's picture

Hopefully letters from the cariologist and then when he gets here my kids peditrician is going to see him as well (and is willing to write a letter) will be enough...

Dontfeedthetrolls's picture

You already have enough for contempt. The custody order states that parents will keep each other informed of medical status for the children. She is refusing to provide mandatory information about the child’s medical status by not telling you the child’s doctor.

The thing is courts are so slow to actually do anything about contempt and for medical abuse you needed extended records showing repeated issues that can show emotional or physical harm. Basically you have to show Munchhausen by proxy which takes A LOT.

Thumper's picture

First, please realize bm's witholding OR blocking  critical information IS not uncommon with high conflict.  So, hopefully you sorta feel a little better knowing others have gone thru this same thing.

It is comtempt. Having gone thru this for such a long time ourselves, WAITING to file contempt charges is not wise. Waiting churns the case over months and years. Its stressful and increases billable hours. 

 

I encourge you to act now otherwise if you wait, she will keep withhold medical info and other matters. At the least make things very difficult for dad to optain information.   Have your lawyer file proper paper work to get in front of the Judge who will assess whether or not BM is IN contempt.  That is step 1..Step 2,.after that a court date to hear the case will be set. THIS date will be several months down the road----

This puts bm on notice--hey either I cure this motion (hand over the goods) or risk answering to a siting Judge who will not be happy. 

In dh's filing request attornies fees for this contempt charge and lost wages.

 

justmakingthebest's picture

Our lawyer is formally notifing her attorney and is e-mailing the judge (small towns) about the situation. Hopefully we will get an answer soon...