Passivity
The start of the biblical understanding of the original sin.
Men's Fraternity
it's the 2nd 1/2 now. We have gone through our past, we have dealt with our wounds.
Now opening up a new chapter.
We start with the beginning.
Now as I am in this class I learned something that clicked and resonated in side me about Adam and Eve.
This generation by large looks at that story and sees Eve as the one who sinned.
After breaking it down and looking at it full hearted.
the understanding is it is Adam's sin...
Here is the deal.
And the fall of men today.
Adam sacrificed Eve.
She was tempted by the serpent.
She went and ate from the tree of knowledge and brought it to Adam to eat from it too.
The sin is this.
Adam passively watched her do this. (Lets wait and see what happens.)
He did not relay God's rule well enough.
He did nothing but watch to see if she would die like God said if they surely ate from this tree.
When she did not die, He let her choices rule over him and the state of Passive men began.
This sin belongs to Adam. (He did not own up to it either.)
And God called on him and punished all of man for his sin.
When the man does not lead?
the family will follow suit.
Not sure how this will ring out for you all.
Just sharing...
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Comments
Wow, I love this! I'm going
Wow, I love this! I'm going to share with DH tonight to see what he thinks.
After spending 15 years with DH and EOWEs with SS, I finally came to a realization last year. My choices/opinions were ruling him in his relationship with SS (and BM) and that is why he became so passive. He let me handle things that HE should have done (dealing with BM). He let me stress about things HE should have been worried about (how will we pay the bills if DH agrees to give BM more money). I took over for him and didn't give him a voice in the decision-making. So I have stepped back. Disengaged. And now I let DH make all the decisions. And because he hasn't had to make these difficult decisions in the past (b/c I made them for him) now he doesn't know how to make good decisions. WOW! I treated him like a baby and now he doesn't know how to act like an adult. I enabled him.
This is an oversimplified view of my situation, but I think it supports your thoughts on Passivity.
Completely agree w/you
Completely agree w/you Jon-Boy. Eve did sin too, but she decided on her own. She didn't own up either though---blamed the serpent.
I strongly think one of the problems we see, especially among Christians, is that men are gradually playing more and more of a back seat role---this in turn spreads to family life, etc... Men need to be the Front Seat Driver, in charge, with women supporting them more. Does not mean women don't have say, but they do need to let men make a lot of final decisions.
More men need to step up and learn how to lead, how to be in charge---too much hen-pecking goes on.
My DH and I strongly believe in this---I do get mad when sometimes he doesn't do what I think is what should be done. But a lot of times he does do what I suggest. I still support him, either way, and then will complain to hime in our bedroom, door closed (most times). And it works for us.
I disagree. I am 26 and I
I disagree. I am 26 and I think there are not very many "men" out there. To many spoiled mommy's boys who are looking for someone to "mother" them. I dont think so. So if i am emotionally, mentally, finacially and physically stronger than you Im going to have the final say and you can cry in your room. Mind you i wont come running to you when i fail at something as you are to weak to support me anyway.
STANDING OVATION>>> there
STANDING OVATION>>> there are just too many weenies out there.
I think the politically
I think the politically correct term for them no is "metro-sexual".... lol
Yeah, I think of
Yeah, I think of "metrosexual" as "guy who doesn't dress like slob, doesn't smell like livestock and has a decent haircut." What's not to like?
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
No, that's the definition of
No, that's the definition of "football player."
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
Just a side note. I would
Just a side note. I would love to have a "man" who i felt could support me in all the ways a "man" should be i havent come across one yet so ...
So your a bully. And the
So your a bully.
And the bully shall rule whether your right or wrong.
Over bearing, dominating, and not sympathetic.
This is leadership to you?
I just said that to make a point please don't take it personal.
See, "Leading" is so misunderstood today.
To be a leader is just the act of leading. There is no glory in it. It is just the action being carried out.
Those who say it should be a shared decision is more on the right track, but understand.
It's like a dance.
In a dance the man leads. Does this mean he is the better dancer? no. Does it mean he knows more about dancing? no.
If both of you lead the dance gets messed up.
See my wife makes tons more money than I do.
Just because she has money, does not mean she knows how to handle money.
It just means mistakes don't hurt as bad. There is more buffer in the funds to allow mistakes to happen and feel like there is never a problem.
You take someone with little money, who makes one mistake and it takes them months to recover.
It looks as if they always have money problems.
Another interesting thing is you said, to many men are Mama's boys.
Mom's who placed their dominance over their sons and raised them this way, created this trait in men today, and in turn you are using the same dominating actions with them as your husband.
So when does a man learn to lead?
The other spin on this is some men retaliate because of their dominating mothers and are overbearing to women They only know domination in their communication.
So the world seems to be full of asshole men and mama's boys.
I believe there is truth to this in some form.
And not all cases are the same.
If your man makes a decision, and it turned out to be a bad call.
and you both discuss it afterwards and the next time he makes a better call.
What is wrong with that?
Isn't this called practice?
Jon-boy, I agree with you,
Jon-boy, I agree with you, especially about the "leader" idea.
In leadership classes, they say that there are two types of leaders: the heroic leader, and the servant leader. The servant leader is the one who does not lead in order to be "on top." He leads so as to improve everyone's lives: to serve the community he leads.
To me, that is true leadership. To lead for others, not for oneself. And if one is a true leader, then a mistake is something the leader can admit, and learn from, with humility. Because that is what sets the best example for those he leads.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
ps sounds like a very
ps sounds like a very interesting class
Not trying to start a war
Not trying to start a war here but please explain to me why men should be ale to have the final say in decision regarding the house? It is my understanding that marriage is a partnership, correct? I guess for some women it is easier to unload all of the important issues on the husband so that he can deal with it and the guilt when he makes a mistake. I sometimes would like to do this but when it comes down to it I am better at somethings and he excels at others. We both tend to make decisions in our strong areas and when we can't agree we generally compromise. I think this view sounds alot like partners who emply domestic discipline in their homes. To me a wife is not a child and should not be treated as one. Just like some of the Islamic people are twisting the words in the Koran to meet their beliefs, christians do it constantly with the bible. You can read almost anything into it you want to. If it works for you, great but I don't understand it.
Misguided---I didn't say ALL
Misguided---I didn't say ALL final decisions, but more than most men do. You have excellent points, that we all do have different things we are better at---EX--I pay bills, keep track of them, etc...so usually I have more responsibility on what we can purchase "for fun." I just meant that there are A LOT of men who leave Everything to their wives.
I am hardly treated like a child. We are equal in every way. But in the end, I defer to my DH sound decisions, because he doesn't take it lightly and thinks things through.
I totally believe the Sexual Revolution is what wrecked our country, rather than the Women's Movement---family values were thrown out the window by selfish men and women who just wanted to feel good. Being a Christian, I believe that there is an Order that makes everyone happier, and mostly it is selflessness in the end. So God is first, Spouse is second, kids are third, family is fourth, and I am last, when it comes to needs. That doesn't mean I don't have time for self, because fortunately DH sees it this way too, where he is last---so we push each other to take care of ourselves
Womens lib and the sexual
Womens lib and the sexual rev are two completely different things ... or should i say started out to be. Our mothers gone by wanted us to have equal say in our lives not be able to run around like tramps and sleep with whoever we want.
I'm with you, misguided.
I'm with you, misguided. It's a partnership. And I get really crabby when it's not at my house. (Usually that happens because my DH acts like he wants a mother more than a wife, but you get my point.) We're on this path of life together, one as important as the other, and we each bring strengths and weaknesses. I don't get why anyone assumes that the man should be the head of the house.
I think you're forgetting
I think you're forgetting about Lillith, Adam's first wife. He couldn't control her either.
Hmmmm
Hmmmm
I can't debate religion. I
I can't debate religion.
I was posting this in the pure form of how enlightning it was for myself.
You can call it sins, or quirks or behaviors.
It does not matter.
Our history shows cycles and patternes of all of these.
And some were improvements.
And some I can't help but think we missed the boat and created new problems.
I am not following any of
I am not following any of this! and usually am considered somewhat bright too
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“Learn by practice.” - Martha Graham
Sorry. I'll get back to
Sorry.
I'll get back to it.
It was completely retarded.
And of course my lunch is over now....
I was talking in general to a few people who replied.
HA! It made sense to me.
I'll be back later..
thanks for pointing it out to me.