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Close of Mail-gate opening of 5150-gate

CLove's picture

Its like watergate but without any presidential ties or conspiracies.

Whelp, DH got a series of texts last night from Toxic Troll. She has admitted Feral Forger to the local hospital under a 5150 hold. Unfortunately the hospital sais that there are no additional beds for her so she will have to be shipped out of town or out of state, according to TT.


Sunday TT asked FF to "please clean her room" very politely according to Munchkin SD13. FF went off the deep end (again) and screamed and cried. So TT gave her a 30-day notice to leave (again).  Monday while munchkin was at school, she recieved several texts from FF "Im going to kill myself, I have nothing, no friends, no family. Did you block me? Moms kicking me out and giving you my room, etc..."

Munchkin and I had a long talk. I always just start off with "are you ok?" and then things just came out. She is in between feeling like her sister is using suicide as a threat to get what she wants, and to manipulate everyone, and as a potential possibility. Which makes her really stressed and sad. And in her words, she "just wants to be a kid". Shes feeling out of her league, and doesnt really know what to do, or how to feel. Im in the same boat. I know, because of my experiences with suicide, I must take it seriously.

I just told her that if Feral Forger is TRULY mentally ill, she will hopefully get the help she needs, because "doing nothing gets nothing done", and things havent improved themselves, over this time with her mother. I said that she will get off the drinking and pot, at least. And maybe get the right meds. I told her that if she ISNT actually mentally ill, and IS in fact trying to maniulate, perhaps the time locked up in a mental hospital with "scare her straight". Either way, something drastic needed to be done. She obviously cannot handle life and adulting right now.

We did have a nice evening, after talking things out, oddly enough, with all of us trying hard not to get stressed or upset the others.

I really do not know what the right thing to do is. I dont know the right thing to say. I just told her, "hey, have a great day, everything will be fine."

I hope I dont sound evil, but I have zero interest in swooping in to rescue Feral Forger, who hates me anyway. Im just hoping she gets help, or makes changes, and lives her life peacfully away from me. I just feel like its drama created by Toxic Troll, and she cannot manage things because they got out of her control.

Lots of strange emotions floating in my head right now, I wish I could take a personal day to walk in the forest or on the beach thats close by and contemplate...


ESMOD's picture

Ideally, your DH needs to step in to protect SD13 from this situation.  He should block FF on her phone and tell FF that under no circumstances is she to pull her sister into the toxic stew of her life.  Her sister is a KID and it's unfair to burden her.  If she needs mental help.. she can contact a suicide hotline..

CLove's picture

already put her in the hospital. So theres that.

Ill suggest to DH blocking of FF.

Kes's picture

From all you've said here and previously about FF, I believe there is real doubt she is suicidal.  I have direct experience of suicide, as my elder brother did it when I was 13.  And I have myself been in a psychiatric ward in the past.  People who are genuinely mentally ill do not usually flail about yelling at people and making threats, they are generally too low to do this. To me this sounds like a family that is addicted to drama, like NPD BM and her daughters, my step daughters.  As you say, if she is genuinely mentally ill (which I doubt) she is in the right place, and if not, she will get the scare she deserves.  These are not jolly places to be.  

CLove's picture

I told Munchkin that MOST folks who complete suicide, statistically, dont speak of their pain or threaten, they just do it, like my youngest brother did.

Im so sorry for your pain, all those years ago.

advice.only2's picture

It's pretty sad that you are all so used to this drama and craziness that for you it's become the norm. It's even worse that a 13 year old is growing up thinking this is how every family is.

CLove's picture

I am feeling a bit numb and overwhelmed at the same time. We just want to enjoy life and work towards our goals.

Felicity0224's picture

Oh geez, I feel for your munchkin. Definitely agree that FF should be blocked from communicating with her. Not that she's capable of rational thinking, but your DH should simply tell her that it is damaging to her little sister to be subjected to suicide threats and that he has to protect her until FF is well enough to communicate in an appropriate way.

My oldest SD uses suicide threats as manipulation too, and it's put us all through the ringer. Fortunately the younger one doesn't take it much to heart anymore. Mostly it makes her angry because of how much it disrupts everyone's lives. 

NoWireCoatHangarsEVER's picture

She had her phone taken away as punishment which was long past due and way deserved if you ask me. 

She threatened suicide at school to the school nurse.  My very honest opinion is thought it would get her picked up early from school and her phone back.  Instead she got a ride in the back of a patrol car to the mental institution and a stay for 3 days.

So those 5150's are just to stabilize them and that's it!!!!!!!!  They recommended anti depressants and therapy for my SD.  She took them for maybe three days when North Korea decided with her hair training school that she knew better than the doctors and had SD18 quit taking them. 

So without any long term action like therapy and medication, a 5150 isn't going to do much.

My SD18 is just a mess now (probably more so) than she was in February.  

hereiam's picture

What a selfish little b*tch. Texting her 13 year old sister, telling her she's going to kill herself, is reprehensible. What is SD13 supposed to do about it, other than worry herself sick? She has every right to "just be a kid".

Your husband needs to absolutely block FF on SD13's phone, she doesn't need this crap.

CLove's picture

I JUST suggested this to DH. Although hes typically very "hands off" wrt to phones.

hereiam's picture

Well, this is not a typical situation and he needs to be "hands on" when it comes to protecting his youngest daughter from his oldest's rants.

Exjuliemccoy's picture

I know suicide is a sensitive topic for you, Clove. This must be hard for you.

The sad reality is, FF is likely going to do this again and again. She is her mother's daughter, and likely has either a personality disorder like BPD or bipolar disorder. She's probably going to have multiple instances of inpatient care over the years, so you're all going to have to contend with the big red handle being pulled periodically.

I think you did a good job with Munchkin. You checked in with her, you listened, and you reassured her. I had a stepparent who used to do that for me during the years of my older sister's juvenile delinquency, and it made a big difference. Being told to just focus on being a kid, and to let the adults handle the weighty problems was exactly what I needed to hear. Munchkin has been exposed to too much toxic crap for her age, so it's great that you were able to take some of that off her shoulders. 

FF texting that poo to her little sister was incredibly inappropriate. I agree that blocking her from Munchkin's phone just became necessary.

CLove's picture

It is strange though ExJulie, because I am both sensitive and removed. As in "you cant break me Im already broken right that place".

I texted Dh about that "as a suggestion", and his response is "I will ask Munchkin and see what she thinks".

I think he needs to be more directive...but thats the best I can do for now...

ChamomileTea4Me's picture

and do whatever you need to do to sort out your own thoughts.  I don't know what your "experiences with suicide" are but be careful to not get sucked into FF's unhealthiness.  My MSD attempted suicide (or at least claimed to) when she was 17 and YSD was about 14.  Her exBF at the time sent a text to YSD to "check on her sister."  She went to an inpatient hospital that night.  It was very hard on YSD and your story about Munchkin reminds me so much of what she was going through at the time.  I think the idea other posters had about blocking FF from contacting Munchkin is totally warranted, at least until FF gets on the road to mental health.  When someone is in that mindset, they aren't likely to comprehend how their words will negatively impact other people. At 13, you don't want her getting in the pattern of being manipulated out of fear that her sister will hurt herself if she doesn't listen to her suicidal ideation, depressive ramblings, or irrational venting.  That's just too much for that poor kid to cope with!  As for keeping your distance...I'd say you're on the right track.  I allowed myself to get all up into the middle of the insanity and it literally nearly killed me.  I've struggled with anxiety and depression since I was a kid but thought I was healthy and capable of emotionally distancing myself for MSD's benefit. I was triggered...badly.  Before I knew it, I was in my own intensive outpatient program and voluntarily moved out of the house for a couple months to distance myself from the undealt with craziness.  Only after she moved out did I move back in and I completely disengaged from MSD from that point on. 

So, I hope you take that walk on the beach and maybe take another with Munchkin.  She could probably use it, too! <3

CLove's picture

With suicide is that my youngest brother (I have 2), killed himself at the tender age of 14, in 1995.

Ive never attempted.

Im so sorry that you went through all that, but glad you are on the better "other side" of it.

Its almost 80. Dreaming of the beach right now.

Thumper's picture

Clove ((HUGS))) I am sorry to read about your little brother. My sister inlaws youngest  brother killed himself on Fathers day when he was 16.  And I lost an x boyfriend and a close classmate when they were in their very early 20's.  There are few words.

Suicide or threat  to commit suicide has touched so many peoples lives at one time or another.So,  I am glad your sd is being watched. As she should be for as long as possible then on too out patient therpies both group and individual.  This is awful and I am so sorry.  Maybe she will refuse.

Why do you need dh's approval to block munchkin from sd phone? Munchkins your bio also, right?

Sooner or later bio mom and bio dad may have to make some difficult decisions. I will just leave it there.

I totally get just want to live and follow your hopes and dreams as much as possible.


CLove's picture

Unfortunately as we get along so wonderfully and she tells me that I am more of a "mom" figure to her than her "real mom".

But Munchkin will decide this on her own.

The bio parents are both apparently washing their hands of SD20. She was moved to a facility about 2 plus hours away and no one will pick her up when her 72 hours are done, so I have no idea what will happen in 3 days time, nor is i8t my business.

If SD20 doesnt want to change, then nothing will change. She was asked to clean her room. Thats all. She has been accusatory of Toxic Troll, and threatened to call police.

That just makes the b!tch see red and go the extra mile of mean.

I am removing myelf, just going to check in here and there.