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Christmas Eve and Christmas Report

CLove's picture

Just a quick blurb. Christmas eve was the worst ever.

Because of Feral Forger. And DH wanting to enable her, for crumbs of her affection.

She went shopping somewhere Christmas Eve, and because she still doesnt drive, with no license, she calls DH during a zoom call with HIS family. He looked like he was ready to go get her, and I told him, "tell her no, youve had a few shots...and she cant just snap and you go running."

This made him furious because shes moved back since a week before and never contacted him, and he thought he could get a dribble of time with her. So, he lashed out. Told me that I am "an evil terrible person." End of Zoom.

For some reason that didnt phase me. Really. Im just so battle worn. I guess Ive been through all this before because of Feral Forger, and her toxic ways. The first 3 years of our relationship I was "evil and hated his daughter"...

So, to patch things up, because this is the first Christmas since his mother died, and he doesnt get to see ANY of his other family for the holidays, I offered to invite FF to our house for dinner Christmas evening. I invited her, she said yes, thank you, and that was all good, he was happier. Ok, then it really got good.

Feral Forger and Munchkin got into a really big argument FF called my phone and I put it on speaker. Got to hear all the wonderful cusswords, in between the sobs, and pleading "please daddy, please let me move back in with you!!!! They are ganging up on me, and Im trying to clean!!!!"

Meanwhile, during all this, Munchkin is texting me "If you guys let her move back in at your place, please, I will destroy myself". This from a kid whos never said she wanted to kill herself. Oh, well it gets better, folks.

FF continues sobbing pathetically, Munchkin is texting me its all fake and her victim mode. FF continues begging to move back in (forgetting that it is my place too.) luckily for her she remembers that she called MY phone and I told her she was on speaker, so she didnt say anything negative about ME.
Then the final stroke. "Dont you want me there, daddy?" PAUSE. PAINFUL PAUSE. Breath held, my heart in my throat.

Dh's response was admirable. He told her point blank that he could not have her here because that would cause him to lose everything -financially, and emotionally, his job, the house, and hes not going to do that, hes worked too hard. Then he focused on her drugs. That she needs to get off her meds - shes taking 6 total. He just told her "take a shower, clean yourself up and we will see you here tonight for dinner".

She comes in and I was a bit shocked. Shes wearing a crop top and her stomach is bloated to the point of, well, she looked pregnant and acted drunk. We all hung out for a bit and she played with the dog, we gave her some Christmas cash and DH sat in the garage man-cave, while I followed her around (because stealing), and did a few shots to ease my anxiety. Not the best idea, but it worked in hte short run. And Munchkin worked on her gingerbread house, with large sighs every now and then. Dinner was uneventful as Feral Forger fell asleep in her chair. DH brought her back to the apartment...and now that DH had his time with FF, I dont think we will do that again.

Its disturbingly apparent that she is needing rehab. And Toxic Troll is unable to handle it all.

The day after Christmas everything was so much better. We took Munchkin out shopping, had lunch (in the car), and laughed about everything and nothing.



CLove's picture

Wow. I agree. Typing it out was wow.

But if youve read my blogs, and posts, its just the normal thing.

The_Upgrade's picture

Yeah I have. The most memorable wow was that story of you and Munchkin clearing out FF's room last time round. Munchkin was probably reliving that horror when she heard FF's pleas to move back in....

CLove's picture

Shes moved in and out of Toxic Trolls knarly apartment many times also, and each time, Munchkin SD14 is cleaning and clearing the space. The previous apartment even had cockroaches.

But, yes. That was horrible.

I even feel like I need a double shower from thinking back on that...

Gimlet's picture

He lashes out at you because he wants to see her, you arrange a visit,  she comes over, and then hides in his "man cave"?  Why am I not surprised that he's acting like an overgrown child again? 

It's the same cycle over and over with you facilitating his relationship with his kids while he sits on his ass and criticizes how you do it or doesn't participate. 

Such an evil, terrible person helping Munchkin get her grades up.  Wow, you're a real brute. 

CLove's picture

He lashes out, and Im not even phased, how crazy is that?

He hides because he doesnt want to see what he and Toxic Troll created. And I invited FF, so really there is no more hiding behind the whole "you hate my daughter, you evil person, you". I even gave her $100 to match his. So, he cant use that against me ever again. I almost feel like DH has been wounded this whole time that Feral Forger left and didnt contact him, the wound festered, and then shes living with Toxic Troll who gets to have a relationship with his daughter...and hes flip flopping between "thats my daughter....I cant stand her, esp like this...but thats my daughter...but she will steal and continue being horrible..." So now he sees the truth of things. He cannot have a normal relationship with her. She needs to get off meds and drugs. He nor TT can fix her she doesnt want to be fixed. She hasnt hit the rock bottom of things. And even off meds, shes STILL rude and mean and filthy.

Its the crazy, upside-down world from Stranger Things. And I feel like 11.

The_Upgrade's picture

My DH has got that disconnection with reality down to a fine art. On one hand he knows SD is a liar, a manipulator, a druggie, etc. Then when he makes comments about druggies in general he "forgets" that he's lumping SD into that group. For example it's ok for him to say using drugs is a filthy habit. But not ok to follow on and say SD is filth. Because wait a minute, she's his daughter and therefore exempt from judgement. 

StepUltimate's picture

I am so proud of you and grateful you are in Munchkins' life, CLove. Every character you type reveals your love & compassion for her. 

I almost need to go Lysol myself off after just READING about that, though. OMG. What you are dealing with is heartbreaking. 


CLove's picture

Munchkin is a total sweetheart, and doesnt deserve all that.
Feral Forger, as much as Ive been through, I feel bad for her and hope she gets better, but even without drugs she was always mean and rude and filthy.

And Im going to take an extra long shower...

tog redux's picture

Please don't let him guilt you into having FF over again - first it was the picture, now this. If he wants to see his toxic daughter, he can do it on his time. And then he sits in his man-cave the whole time?

CLove's picture

He now knows that he cannot hide behind "you just hate my daughter". Because I showed her compassion and that doesnt match with his narrative that Im the horrible evil stepmonster.

Ive told him that many times. Its his fault that he doesnt take me up on it. And then she calls in the middle of a zoom with his family, and he has to cover his tracks.

JRI's picture

I think FF was probably on sometning during the whole episode, starting with the calls.  It made me remember a day when SD59 lived here.  She was on who knows what, prescription abuse, my guess, off and on.  Some days, she would be normal, other days, the crying jags, the crazy behavior, the mood swings.  This day started bad with her plunking down in a chair near me and crying.  I asked if the pain was physical or emotional.  No response.  Crazy behavior all day, wandering around alarming us both.  Do you want something to eat? (hadnt eaten in awhile). Finally, I said, lets drive thru Lion's Choice and we will get us some lunch.  She stumbled out of the house with no shoes (wintertime). I got her back in and saw that she was dressed and off we went.  We came back and the crazy behavior resumed, wandering around, making no sense. 

I had an appointment, thought I really should cancel but thought, I just can't deal wtth it any more so left her with DH.  Apparently, the weird behavior continued and DH called her daughter, SGDnow 29.  This girl has had a life of dealing with SD, is antagonistic toward her (SD spent all her college fund forcing SGD to get a student loan)  She came and took over.  She flushed every pill she could find and told SD to stay in her room.  Every time she came out, SGD would yell, " Go back, Mom, you're scaring Grandpa and Grandma!".

Drug abuse is awful, so destructive to the users and their families.  We didn't know much.  I really feel for you all, CLove.

CLove's picture

has been staying with us through all this. Doesnt want to go back. And TT isnt asking her to. I cant imagine being 14 and spending your Christmas having your older 21 yo sister tell you to eff off and eff you.

advice.only2's picture

Just WOW!!! I'm curious do you think FF is pregnant or just has the alcholic belly? 

CLove's picture

Munchkin. But she told me she had broken up with her boyfriend...she looked about 2 months along...

Livingoutloud's picture

It wouldn't show at 2 months. It doesn't look like anything at 2 months because baby  is just too tiny for it to show

CLove's picture

Shows how much I know about babies!

hereiam's picture

Wow, that all sucks, for everybody involved. Well, except for FF, who got money. Yay, for her!  Please stop giving an addict cash.

The fact that he had had a few shots was reason enough to not let him drive anywhere. The other thing is true, that he shouldn't jump when she snaps her fingers, but it didn't need to be said at that moment. Not bashing you for it, just something I've learned after 24 years of being a step mom. Sometimes, it's best to let logic and law be the voice of reason. You are not evil for not wanting him to drive after drinking.

Shots aside, you are trying to protect yourself and your family, including your husband and his emotional well being, and he calls you evil. He knows damn well that this is ALL on his daughter. Yes, that is his daughter, yes, he will always love her. But, at some point, he has to come to the realization that until SHE makes some changes and wants something different, their relationship is not going anywhere, is not going to change.

She is not a child, anymore (even if she calls him, "Daddy"), and has to make some adult decisions. SHE has to make those decisions, he can't make them for her and him settling for table scraps is not going to make a difference. It just makes it hurt more, the next time she blows him off. It just lets her know that she can take advantage and there is no reason for her to even think about making any changes. She still gets what she wants.

I feel for your husband, I do. It is HARD to watch your kid go down that road. It's HARD to think that there is not a damn thing that you can do about it that will make a difference, as long as that is the life they are choosing. But, it's a truth that he has to face.

Right now, he needs to focus on the life that he has made with you, and his minor daughter. He can still make a difference in HER life.

Not saying he should write FF off. If she ever reaches out to him for some REAL help (not moving in), that is different, but he cannot sacrifice what he has for tidbits from her.

Something that every parent, divorced or not, has to face, is that at some point, your kids get old enough to start making decisions that affect their lives, and they do it without any input from you. You have to let go and let them own those decisions. As hard as it is, you have to let them suffer the consequences.

Your husband is right there, at that edge. What he said to her, that he can't afford to lose everything, means that he knows it's at that point. His heart doesn't want to admit it, or even be there (I don't blame him), but that's the reality. Until she truly wants help and wants to change, and is willing to DO it, he can't help her.


Exjuliemccoy's picture

hereiam said what I came to say. 

Please, PLEASE start treating FF as you would any other addict. NEVER give her cash again.

See if you can get your H to email or text TT to outline what happened and draw her into a discussion about FF, her addiction and mental health issues, etc. A collection of communications on the subject could be gold should Munchkin decide she wants to live full time with you.

Please devote some time to self care. Calming, centering, accepting. Poo like this should NOT be normalized, and the numbness you felt concerns me. Shrapnel from other people's wars can still harm you. (((hugs)))

CLove's picture

Documentation. Ill see if DH will send me his screen captures.

I am very numb. But I took your advice and went for a walk on the beach today. Self care. I am going to try yoga. And ice cream.

CLove's picture

He knows this would destroy his life that we have built. And he accepts that his relationship with her will always be a user/usee one.

And I cannot stand her either way, drugs or no drugs shes  a mean selfish b!tch.

I just need to back off and not get worked up when he jumps for the table scraps. Thats on him.

I think this weekend really shocked him into acceptance. As it did me. Made it a more concrete thing.

caninelover's picture

I don't think there is really any right or wrong way in a situation as difficult as this.  I think I would have done pretty much the same as you.  Except I probably wouldn't have invited FF for dinner.

Hopefully someone can convince FF to get serious help.

CLove's picture

It was the only thing that would pacify DH. He wanted to spend time with family. For Christmas. But shes not really done anything that looks like a relationship for a long time. Texts him for a ride or money.

I think the only right thing is to protect myself and munchkin.

Exjuliemccoy's picture

It's inderstandable. Between losing his mom and COVID quarantine, your DH was probably craving that family feeling. But you did not deserve to get splattered with other people's poo.

Remain watchful. Next comes the backsliding, denial, and ignoring.

CLove's picture

I'm seriously considering this...

Livingoutloud's picture

It's not advisable to give addicts money. It's enabling.

 It doesn't mean you shouldn't give addicts anything for holidays. There are things and acts of service that could be given to them that they cannot sell for drugs/alcohol.

My OSD is an addict with criminal records and several incarcerations, I don't post much about her because I am afraid someone from BM's family will read on here.

She is or at least appears to be clean at the moment. But we never ever give her money. We give stuff that cannot be sold.  We meet her for meals in a restaurant on a neutral territory and pay for diners. Restaurants are currently closed in my state so we meet in the mall or outdoors places like a zoo or park (yes it's brutal winter here but if bundled up we can walk around). We see her at least monthly.

There've been times when we took her grocery shopping and bought full stuck of groceries and cleaning supplies etc

OSD knows that to maintain relationship with us she has to behave and make good efforts to be sober and no issues with the law. Things have been peaceful, if it gets out of hand she knows we won't tolerate it.

She would not be allowed to show up intoxicated in our house. She'd have to leave. Id not allow my DH to hide while I am entertaining his intoxicated kid. Wouldn't be happening. I understand unconditional love for a child and we do well by OSD. She is forever DHs child but we do not tolerate such nonsense. My YSD (normal one) has no relationship with her sister. We maintain a relationship but within boundaries and with education about addictions.

I don't know how you can stand your DH. 

if he wants relationship with his child he should make an effort and he should educate himself about addictions. Isn't he a recovering or recovered addict himself? You two just gave an addict 200 to spend on drugs and alcohol.  


CLove's picture

Thats the end of the money line for me. I guess I thought it would be a sense of closure. That DH couldnt just not think about it if it was in front of him.

Seeing him just sit there with tears streaming down his face in silence was the toughest thing, but you are right. Im numb to everything now. Its draining and its drama.

Yes, he was an addict when he met Toxic Troll and they got cleaned up together. And TT started her child on meds at a young young age. At 16 she was admitted to ER because her mother have her a dose of anti anxiety meds meant for a 220 lbs person, not a 110 lb person.

Its all a huge mess. And no more cash for her, thats it for me.

Tried out's picture

gift certificates for her favorite fast food place instead of cash. 

Livingoutloud's picture


gift certificate to grocery store 

prepared food delivery 

Gift certificate for fast food 


caninelover's picture

So she can call an Uber instead of DH when she needs a ride at a moment's notice!

Livingoutloud's picture

Yes it's a source of pain for my DH too. We had so much drama over the years. Yes my DH cries too. Things are peaceful with OSD now but we don't know how long it will last. It usually doesn't last

aside from issue with your crazy SD I am concerned with how DH treats you and that you are numb to that 

He called you evil or what not and in response you bent backwards. You are a good person but you need to stand up for yourself, learn not to be such a pushover and people pleaser. You are allowing him to treat you poorly.

Therapy? for yourself. Have you ever tried?  


CLove's picture

He was with Toxic Troll for 20 years. Im sure there is some damage from that.

We talk about marital counseling, but nothing comes of it. Im thinking if I just make an appointment and ask him to show up, that might be the way to go. Im seeing him more and more as an emotionally stunted man, who does nothing but repeat his dysfunctional patternss, does nothing to make positive changes because he is "stuck".

Ive always been good at reinvention. He is the same hes always been.

Gimlet's picture

CLove, I am pointing this out because I care but look at how you immediately go to what your husband needs.

You need support, and therapy can help give you that.  You cannot keep carrying him and if he chooses not to go to marriage counseling (which I think is a good idea, especially given his verbally abusive beheavior), then you need to find yourself a counselor and go alone, just for you.

He is absolutely stunted, but he has to want to do something about that.

Livingoutloud's picture

I meant therapy for YOU to help stand up for yourself and not focus on always pleasing other people and allowing bad treatment.

Not marriage therapy and I am not concerned about therapy for him and what toxic troll did to him.

Even now when therapy was suggested for YOU, you immediately start talking about what HE needs. I was concerned that YOU stuck in unhealthy pattern but you only worry about HIM. You completely lost yourself in this relationship.  

we can't change other other people. You can't change him but you can change yourself and improve yourself and get help for yourself, that's when therapy might help. Not for him. For you. You matter.  

Catmom024's picture

Ugh.  I'm so sorry.  What a mess.  My SO has pretty much resigned himself to the fact that he and his daughter (also a feral check stealing forger, drug using/dealing mess) are incapable of having a normal relationship.  She's almost 30.  The dysfunctional patterns don't go away.  Just pray she doesn't get pregnant because that takes it to a whole new level of insanity.

Good on you for taking yourself out of the drama triangle and eliminating the "you hate my daughter" b.s.  I hear that too.

CLove's picture

And I have Feral Forger Junior.

What is up with all these dysfunctional kiddos? Is it that life is too easy these days? Is it truly the fault of the divorce (she brought that up in her cry fest "my parents are divirced, my life is so hard!"

Im like, hey, your parents divorced each other not you, its your mother thats effed up.

Catmom024's picture

My son is from a divorced home as well.  I never labeled him.  He's a great young adult with a fantastic job and career.  I think in your case with FF Jr she was allowed to be labeled a victim.  Her mother is also a nightmare who probably plays victim.

My SO uses the "comes from a broken home" excuse for his daughter.  He saw a show on TV about the ACE test...Adverse Childhood Events and it listed divorce.  He continues to blame himself...Guilty Daddy big time.

Guilt and labeling kids victim makes for a bad combination resulting in a mess of a kid.

There's no doubt in my mind Feral Forger the First got pregnant on purpose to try to tie down her her best friend was pregnant.  She told her father it was unplanned.  She's now a victim of an unplanned pregnancy .  Guess the kid is a victim too...

Livingoutloud's picture

No it's not fault of divorce at all. It's fault of terrible parenting. My DD has divorced parents and many other members on here are divorced and have children. By this logic all of our  children should be trash, but they aren't anything like that. There are ton on trashy people coming from intact families too. Nothing to do with divorce 

JRI's picture

We subsidize SD59, you all have heard me rant on.  She lives on disability.  The cash issue is tough.  I will never give her another cent but starting mid-month, when she has blown thru her disability $, DH starts getting the calls.  "I don't have any money but need my medicine".  That's her fave line which he always falls for.  A variation is, " My cell service is turned off but the doctor will be calling".  At least we have our finances separated but that doesnt address the issue of giving cash to an addict.  It is so tough dealing with drug addiction.

CLove's picture

Toxic Troll is wanting to get her on disability because of her medications (bi polar, anxiety, etc...)

At least my DH doesnt buy into the medication  crap. Not that Im against it when its used correctly, but he knows its all bull crap with her.
IM thinking, now that the smoke has cleared a bit (and the comments you and everyone made) its time for a bit of a "strategy talk" with DH.

Rides = ok
Cash = not ok
Living with us = not ok
Visiting us = ok, with discussion and both of us present
Visting us and alcohol = not ok
Whereby I suggest the things presented here. I disagree with grocery store gift card because she can buy alcohol with this. And shes living with Toxic Troll, who has her debit card from the EBT program.

Catmom024's picture

She may also be able to purchase things with the gift card but return them for cash?  Or sell the gift card for $$.  I hope and pray she doesn't get disability.  I have 2 chronic health conditions and live with unrelenting pain and exhaustion and have paid into the system by working for decades.  I was denied.  Seems people like her always get it, no problem.

Livingoutloud's picture

If she is diagnosed bipolar, taking her of medication is very very unwise. Just because your DH doesn't like medications, it doesn't mean bipolar disorder is going to treat yourself.  

Livingoutloud's picture

Grocery store was just a suggestion among many. You certainly don't need to be buying that for her. Or buying anything for that matter. 

JRI's picture

You are making a good point to outline financial and other boundaries.  Every case is different.  We subsidize rent (about half) and pay the gas bill.  SD59 is on disability and pays her part of rent, electric, food and her phone.  I dont give her cash but DH does, in dribs and drabs ("I'm out of my medicine") during the month but he also has her working off some of it doing yardwork here (I wont let her do housework due to the theft issue).  Im going thru these details as an example of outling boundaries that you can live with while realizing that a family member needs help.

Between you and me, I just wish the earth would open up and swallow SD59 but thats not going to happen.  Setting these boundaries, as uncomfortable as it was, is the only way we have been able to maintain our marriage.

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Clove, something you need to accept and factor into your choices is: this dynamic is complex, multi-layered and old, with mental illness involved. It's a hydra, and above your paygrade. Both TT and your DH have their own unresolved issues, including addiction; neither understands boundaries and they haven't worked together to raise the girls, which has caused more damage; and the older everyone gets, the less likely they will be to change.

Your hierarchy of needs should be 1) protecting and nurturing YOU, 2) your marriage, 3) Munchkin. I think you sometimes get these mixed up and sucked into other people's problems, to your own detriment.

You are a loving and tender-hearted soul, but aren't getting the support you need from your DH. Find a therapist for yourself, someone who can be your confidant and offer tools and strategies for navigating this poo. Then, maybe start marriage counselling. You'll be modelling something healthy and important for Munchkin. Perhaps one day you, DH, and Munchkin can do some family therapy, too.