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Food for thought. Have many Bios tampered with the natural order ...

captjacksprrw's picture

And created these unable to function, emotionally and socially unable to function so called 'Adults'?   I have thought about this for a while and looking for all opinions.  

Is our society now so full of over 18 year old (often much older) humans who lack the life skills they need.  They cannot relate to others, some are arrogant, some are spposedly wrought with anxiety to the point of not being able to get or hold a job, some refuse to even get a job, many respect no opinion outside their own, most expect Bio parent shouldtake care of them the same as if they were 12.  I can go on but you folks know.

Is it possible the problem is in the last, say, decade or so Bio parents have rejected a natural order that worked for thousands of years and now all of us pay the price.  Baby bird is nurtured, cared for, grows, gets pushed out of the nest and in order to remain alive must fly/hunt for food, etc.  So many (not all) Bio parents have thrown that law out the window then stamped on it and burried it in concrete.  They can't say no, don't really act as the adult in charge, shield and pamper them to the extreme.  Then, when human baby is grown and should be ready to leave the nest they have no skills and no incentive to find the skills.  No wonder we get frustrated and our heads explode as Sparents having to deal with this. 

So .. Did our Bio Partners open up Pandora's box and now we are paying the price as a society?   Just curious.  Hmmm Indiana Jones:  You are meddling with powers you do not understand.   No one listens, faces melt off.


tog redux's picture

We had a thread on this before - it seems multi-factorial, but yes, there are many more young adults living home with parents - I've read something like 25% of 18-34 year-olds still live with their parents. 

Many factors - the economy, student loans, housing prices, and yes, helicopter parenting. 

My SS19 lives with BM and is doing NOTHING right now. No job, no college, nada.  But DH didn't create that, BM did. 

Evil3's picture

My DH was the worst Disney dad and mini-wife nurturer ever. Over the years and through many fights, DH would reluctantly change things to get the SKs to mature because he consciously knew that it would be detrimental to them not to. However, at the first sign of maturity, DH would panic over the thought of losing his babies and he'd literally sabotage the SKs to keep them infantilized. If it were up to DH he would have lived with the brats forever. I once blurted out to him that he allowed his fear of losing the SKs to outweigh his love and concern for them. He'd rather cripple them than to let them flourish all to satisfy HIS need.

I've seen this same dynamic happen in intact families. I used to think it was only step families because of divorced dads being the guilty parties to this dynamic. However, I think that the generation who is parenting these coddled snowflakes have their own issues and they've gone against the natural order to satisfy the parents' holes in souls rather than to consider what's best for t he kids. I think a lot of parents see themselves as having shitty childhoods or at least lacking in something and they don't want their kids to suffer the same fate, so they go crazy with the coddling. I also think there are loss issues and parents guilty of the dynamic are trying to get their kids to never leave them. I think that sometimes this issue is conscious and sometimes unconscious.

I just can't relate to this dynamic myself. I tried for decades to understand why my DH parented the way he did and nothing made sense. So, he got divorced. So what? My parents got divorced and that was not even on my list of things that screwed me up as a kid. Also, as a parent, I believe in my DD19 and I wanted her to soar. I always thought when you love someone you want them to soar to great heights.

I also think societal beliefs come into play. So, often society says that to be a good parent, we must put the kids first. We must sacrifice everything for our kids in order to be seen as a good parent. However, I think our interpretation of that is off. I think a reasonable sacrifice for your kid/s would be say, emigrating and leaving your home behind and then learning a new language and working two jobs to make sure your child/ren have enough to eat and a roof over their head. I used to see on a popular dance show that these dancers who made it to the top ten would thank their parents for working two jobs to pay for dance. The difference between them and the coddled SKs is that the successful dancers were made to go to dance and to practice if their parents were going to do their part and work two jobs.  For some reason, we have people thinking they must sacrifice their marriages to second spouses and denounce all other interests, loved ones, etc. to "prove" to Poopsie that they're number one. In my opinion if these parents want to prove their sacrifice so much, why don't they sacrifice living with their kids forever and parent them properly? I don't know if I'm making any sense. I just wanted to say that I think the coddling parents are misinterpreting what "sacrifice" means or what "putting the kids first" means. Sure, if there was a world war three and we were all starving, I'd make my kids eat before me. However, I wouldn't allow them to treat DH like shit and elevate them above DH.

I think I could go on and on all day about this topic. I think it's a multi-faceted issue and would take a multi-faceted approach to fix it. I think both individual issues plus societal expectations come into play.

ITB2012's picture

There's a family he knows and the daughter (now in her late 20s/early 30s) is what my dad has diagnosed as "highly indulgent" of herself. The daughter gives herself every excuse, if she is uncomfortable it must be painful, she doesn't do well with X, Y or Z, has to have things certain ways, thinks highly of herself. I told my dad he just described a classic narcissist.

His opinion is that she was raised to be this way with some DNA thrown in to make it stick. She was not held to rules, she was indulged so she learned to indulge herself, she was handed excuses so she learned to use excuses rather than work things out or take responsibility.

He commented on how my brother and I were very ready to fly the coop. Sure! Because we were held responsible and had things expected of us and as we got older we wanted to "have our own rules" so were ready to leave to establish those for ourselves. If there are no rules, why would anyone leave to try to implement their own? How would anyone know what that looked like if it wasn't part of growing up?

Jcksjj's picture

First, I had an aunt that was super babied and never really grew up all the way. Partially because of mental health issues also, but she was extremely coddled and excused made, etc. My SIL is less extreme but similar and MIL acts like SIL is still a little kid that needs rescuing instead of a 32 year old woman with 2 kids. So its always happened, but I do think it's more common now. 

I agree with all the factors listed above. I think the change in the last decade is social media and how the message that "children always come first" and "children and are still your children after they leave" is so much more easily spread. I mean before you wouldnt just randomly see a meme of that while sitting at home or be able to see 12000 people's opinions on the matter. Not to mention people are much more outspoken on their opinions behind a keyboard than face to face. AND in addition to that you didnt have people portraying themselves as MOTY every second of the day because how else would you tell 300 people at a time that you're so wonderful for every little thing you do "for the kids" and immediately have a bunch of people validating you for it.

I mean I'm speculating on that because I'm 30 so social media has been there my entire adulthood, but I would guess things were different before that


CLove's picture

Ive been reading statistics - and it was mentioned that social media has caused many divorces, even when there are children. So I believe the power of social media being very strong!

CLove's picture

How much social media has taken over the persons time and attention, but mostly infidelity and communicating with others inappropriately.

CLove's picture

I studied economics in college, which is essentially the study of causality. For example, quantifying the effect thing x has on thing y, given certain external factors.

So, because this is a topic I can actually relate to (vs the supply demand curves of widgets), I think it merits some in depth discussions. Today, for casual reading, Ive been researching Divorce Statistics. Yep. And history of divorce. What causes divorce, what percentage of people divorce in what age groups. As well as current trends in marriages and divorces. FASCINATING stuff.

So - the issue we are discussing, is parenting and its affect on children and young adults today vs previous generations. Parenting "styles" that create humans that are dependent and degenerate, lazy and crazy and all kinds of stoopid.

Is it nature or nuture others would ask.

I have found that asking the right questions is vital in how the answers come out. Making assumptions is part of the game. Assuming two sets of kids, male/female, and two sets of divorced parents, what factors generate 4 sets of possible outcomes. Sort of like game theory!!!!

i have no bios - so its tough for me, I am an "outside observer". This is my first marriage. I am over 50.

DH - he has come from a large close family where his parents never divorced - his mother is widowed. He pursued some college and did very well in high school, was in sports. Very stoic, hardworking, like his parents.

Toxic Troll - her parents are divorced, she has a stepmother, her bio mother abused substances, she has a sister who was homeless and on drugs had children taken away. Dropped out of high school. Overweight. Complains constantly of all types of ailments, lazy, dirty, temper rages.

Their children:

SD20, since Ive known her she has been lazy, mean, rude and dirty. BARELY graduated high school, no college plans, no license, no job. Very few friends. She is narcisistic personality disordered. She has temper rages. She lies and steals.

SD13, very smart, great in school wrt grades. Happy, nice respectful. Excited about getting a job. And driving a car. Shes honest and concientious. Even tempered.

Whats the difference between these two? Same parents, same parenting, same DNA.

The difference is a few things: SD20 spent the bigger part of her life with an intact family, and lived in that dysfunction a REALLY LONG TIME. Shes bonded very closely with her mother.

SD13 was really young, Ive been in her life 5.5 years. She has seen what a happy stable marriage/partnership looks like. She and I are close in personality so we have bonded. She really likes what Im about. WE do things together, she has accepted me as family, has accepted my parenting.

Dh is not a guilty disney dad - if SD13 does something wrong he will yell at her, or give repercussions (him being mad at her is repercussio enough!). She is required to help out. Required to get good grades, not miss school.

SD20  was always taken to doctors (attention), always allowed to get away with things (no repercussions for stealing and lies). Her mother allows her to not do anything and not have a job and allows the disrespect to continue. BM continues to support SD20, with no exectations that she better herself and no repercussions. There has been zero discipline except to 5150 her when she threatened suicide mulitpl times in response to being asked to clean her room at BMs gnarly apartment. She is also emotionally stunted, has the emotional maturity of a 12 yo. Like her mother actually.

So - several factors, including parenting, parental alienation, parental background, parental bonding create the utter chaos we are experiencing in Steplandia.

Such an interesting topic!

Jcksjj's picture

You're example is interesting to me  because I would have been the SD20 in this situation as far as intact dysfunctional family until I was a teen and BM that had zero rules or discipline etc. I actually had a very similar situation to A LOT of the brat skids on here and did not act like them still. I mean I did do things I shouldn't have as a teen, but I was never manipulative or rude or entitled or played the poor me card.

The DNA part still seems like a large factor to me in this. Full siblings generally share 50% of their dna. But they can still have vastly different inherited temperatures etc. And different temperaments respond to the same parenting styles and situations in different ways. For example, one child might respond to a parent that is a yeller by yelling back and becoming more defiant. Another might cry and become scared and overly compliant. 

It really is an interesting topic. 

CLove's picture

SD20 would respond to DH yelling and sternness by yelling back and hurling insults. She didnt care if others were mad at her. Just like her mother.

SD13 cries, or gets sad. Shes a people-pleaser like her father.

What school fails to add is that there is the "x" factor as I think of it - spirit. I personally do not believe that we are "biological machines".

And birth order is highly underrated as well.

SD20 was empowered during the separation while mommy dearest was off finding her newest dude, DH raised them alone, and she was empowered with adult-syle responsibilities like taking care of her younger sister, doing the cleaning, etc.

SD13 has always gotten to enjoy being a kid.

When I came along SDthen15 had the opportunity to enjoy being a kid, instead she resented the "intrusion" and "demotion".

advice.only2's picture

I think it's part parenting, and part economy. When the cost of living has risen and the minimum wage has stayed the same it makes it really hard for these young adults to just fly the coop and live out there on their own.

My BS works a full time job being trained for a profession that will eventually make good money. Right now he lives with four roommates and they are planning on taking on a 5th roommate to alleviate the stress of the monthly rent and bills. BS is also attending college part time as it's part of the apprenticeship.

He's holding his own but barely has much left over at the end of the day. We are there to help him if need be, but he's working a full time government job and can barely manage with 4 soon to be 5 roommates.

Lifer33's picture

I often wonder what kind of salary ss would need to be on in future to live the lifestyle he's come to expect. He's not clever enough and never will be to warrant a big one. Can only hope step father across the way will let him work in his martial arts business or something or otherwise he's set for a big fall 

DHsfamilyfromhell's picture

As my grandparents generation were all ones that had an experience of WW2 in some shape or form, that meant for a couple of decades afterwards work ethic was very different and less people went to college. My parents ‘had to’ get jobs because their parents made them. Therefore - we had to get jobs because our parents made us. There was a sink or swim urgency to it as we didn’t have the luxury’s that we have today. Ones prized possession might have been a tv but that was about it. Not everyone had cars. No mobile phones, no pcs, people didn’t go out all that often (except to the pub...)

Now there are lots of luxuries, and plenty food on the table. Teenagers don’t believe people will starve if they don’t get a job. Starvation was a major motivating factor for my stepdad getting his first job at 16 because his dad had died and it meant his mum had been left to bring up 5 kids on her own. 

No major motivating factors to leave and get a job = kids staying at home longer.  They can’t ‘visualise’ what it’s like to go without therefore, some of them don’t care.