Smart-ass SS
Ok. So DH, BM & I are at SD13 & SS11's Christmas program at the church they go to. SS9 is sitting with us while his siblings are in the program. BM was telling us how SD13 dropped last minute things on BM about things she needed for the program (which is typical of a teenager lol). This is what was said:
BM: I lose it when SD13 waits to tell me she needs something right before she needs it (said in a joking voice)
SS9: Yes she does.
Another example just from today. SS9 will not sit still to eat at the church lunch. I tell him to sit on his behind, he glares at me. DH takes SD13 out side to talk to her "get fresh air" & SS9 chimes in "I need some fresh air too." I tell him stay & dad needs some time alone with SD13. SS9 starts back talking, I tell him if he keeps up Santa will bring him coal so he hisses at me. He does this with EVERYONE so it's not just me.
A firm pop of the fingers to
A firm pop of the fingers to SS9's lippy mouth or a firm swat to the ass in full view of the local public will solve this problem. Kids push parental envelopes when they think they can get away with it. Public tends to be a favorite venue for this crap.
When my SS-21 was younger this was his MO. He would rarely push the envelope when it was just his mom and I around. He knew better. But he would try his luck much more frequently when we were in public and other people were around. My DW would have a much more difficult time addressing this crap than I did. When he did it I pulled him up short right then and there and if more frim measures were warranted I would take him and a hand to the back of the neck accelerated hike to the nearest Men's room for an attitude adjustment. Even when he was a toddler he knew when we were approaching the Men's room. He might be pitching a fit but when he saw the "Men's" sign he would immediately stop his tantrum and say 'I'm OKay daddy. We don't need to go in there." If his behavior warranted a Men's room trip I always took him in even if it was to only stand him on the counter so he and I could see eye to eye and have a firm discussion on his behavior. Having him at my eye level changed the dynamic enough that he understood that things were serious.
Apply the consequences firmly and immediately regardless of where the inappropriate kid behavior occurs and SS9 will learn to keep his mouth zipped in a hurry.
As for SS9 trying to participate in disciplinary discussions of his elder sib, let him know that it is none of his business and if he butts in he will be disciplined.
For reference my DW and I met when SS-21 was 15mos old and we married a week before he turned 2yo.
All IMHO of course.
I think your post does a good
I think your post does a good job of making the point that parents need to find an effective method of discipline that does not punish the parent as much as the kid.
Grounding a young child also grounds the parent. It took my DW and I a while to realize this after we became tired of being grounded ourselves while he was serving his time. So, when we disciplined with longer term methods such as grounding or writing a large number of sentences we inforced those punishments when we were at home or in an appropriate place. If he was mid grounding or sentence writing and we went out to dinner he went with us but he sat quietly at the table. No play scape, no crayons and drawing on the kid menu, etc....
For the most part he was a very well behaved kid.
I do not believe in using holiday related stuff as a punishment just as I do not believe in using chores as punishment. Chores are the kids duty and contribution to the family home. Christmas is a holiday that should be used to bring the family closer. Not that a ill behaved spawn gets as much or as cool of a gift pile as a well behaved kid. A parent must get the message across that the kid is loved even if their behavior is intollerable.
Punishments should be focused on the infraction, sent the message quickly, firmly and effectively and be extended when necessary.
Sincerely,
That is the challenge I think. For the parents particularly.