I think as long as the new husband is affording her to not work, then that is their choice. My only argument is that BM shouldn't get a free pass and collect from ex husband.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

If this is something that the new family decides and the new family can afford for mom to stay home with the kids, then I think it is a good idea. However, mom should not seek additional child support from first daddy to support her second family lifestyle BECAUSE she doesn't work.

Bet she isn't is a hurry to move anyone in? In PA it is standard for alimony to end if the recipient co-habitates. Doesn't give a timeframe. I can't see anyone who knows Wingnut for more than 5 minutes wanting to live with her. We have 35 months to go then the witch is on her own!

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

Unfortunately, it is based on something. In MA, men can be taxed with alimony FOREVER even if the exwife has a degree and can earn just as much money as the husband. In fact, if the husband loses his job, the new wife would be liable to pay that alimony. Some men can't ever retire because the xwifes alimony precludes it.

When dh first left Wingnut (this is in PA), the spousal support and alimony during the divorce included a "mortgage differential" which meant that because Wingnut stayed in the marital home with a large mortgage dh had to pay a % additional money to allow her to stay there. It is based on a calculation of income and not needs based. So basically they took DH's income (which included arbitrary bonuses that may or may not come to fruition and were certainly not included in his monthly pay) and said you owe Wingut 50% PLUS the mortgage differential which was $900. he was giving her $5000 a month. If it weren't for me, he would not have been able to afford a decent 2-bd apartment. That is a LOT of incentive for BMs to NOT finalize a divorce because it is clearly more money than they get in alimony and cs, plus they can stay on the husband's health insurance. Fortunately (three years later when she finally HAD to consent to the divorce) this amount was reduced significantly. She had to move from the marital home and we can survive even though he still gives her a ridiculous amount of money each month. She had to get a job for benefits. Makes me feel better that she actually HAS to do something. I guess my issue is why prolong the inevitable? She had to move out of the house anyway, so why force dh to allow her to stay for so long? Why pay alimony for 4 more years when after that ends, she'll be no better able to take care of herself and sd? All alimony is doing is delaying her need to live within HER means.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

Dido.

And another thing. The BMs that cheat or are the cause of the end the marriage and WERE SAHMs, need to realize that the moment that they CHOSE to end the marriage they also chose to become a working mom. They chose to leave and become a 50/50 partner in financially raising the children.

Now, if man cheats/chooses to end marriage and there was a sahm situ, then I can see alamony, but even then only for 4 years TOPS so that they have the opportunity to go back to school, get a degree, and by then even if there was a baby, the kids are all at least in half day school.

(Of course the situ can be gender reversed, I dont care what direction it is)

In our state, dh would have to contribute to child care costs, according to their earning capacities for Wingnut to work. Wingnut would also have to pay her portion for us to employ daycare costs when we work. I'd rather pay daycare than give Wingnut the $. Does that make me a bitch? Probably, but given the emotionally abusive things she's done to this kid, the kid is better off not in her care isolated from society all day. It isn't an issue with us because I work from home and Wingnut works second shift so we don't use childcare, but we did pay our portion for summer camp last summer. I have no problem with dh paying for his kid. I DO have a problem with Wingnut getting to sit home all day while we work our butts off to support her. I also think it is a bad thing to teach a child. Wingnut didn't work for the first 3 years after dh left because dh had to keep her on his health insurance during the precedings. She used this time to coach a little kid into telling people her father hits her. She also then enrolled kid into pre-school, which we had to pay for on top of the $5000 a month we were paying her and she still didn't work. Now we pay her $900 per month (plus alimony) in CS and we have the kid 75% of the time. I fail to see how she needs $900 per month to support a kid she spends 1 full day a week with. She lets us "babysit" so she doesn't have to spend cs on a babysitter.

Every situation is different. If you want to be a stay at home mom and it works for you and your new husband. Do it, but please don't expect your ex to support you so that you can stay home and benefit your family while his family goes with out. Do you think it would be fair for me to have to go out and work 40-50 hours a week and leave MY biokids in daycare (which I would pay for) 10 hours a day so that dh can afford to support his xwife in being a stay at home mom to her kids and her new husband's kids. I think if xwife is able to stay home and save $ for new husband not sending his children to daycare, then the new husband should contribute something to the bm's kids. I just don't think any person's second family should have to struggle and suffer so the first family can have certain luxuries (extracurriculars, stay at home moms, etc.).

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

Yes. In the state of Cali CS and Child care are two different things. What you pay in day care doesnt matter so short answer yes even thought your DH is paying CS the courts say he has to pay half of daycare so that both parents can work. She has to pay half to though.

me too! I posted that one time I was so pissed bc it was a beautiful summer day and I was bustin my hump at work and having daydream/nightmares about Frizz driving to my house to lounge in my pool all day while I was gone. *shivers* that thought still disturbs me.

"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."

..."I'm not mean, you're just a sissy."

WOOOHOOOO me too!!!

DISbelief~

~You have to BE crazy to UNDERSTAND crazy!~

It is sooo archaic and goes on the assumption that women are too frail to support themselves BUT at the same time forces second wives to bust their asses. Its absurd. I deal with it because I love my dh and he fought a good fight to give her only the minimum amount the courts would allow (he didn't just giver her what she wanted). Also, alimony will end and the day it does, I am going out and getting me a BIG FAT PRESENT to celebrate and I will be sure to show it off!!! She'll benefit from dh for a short period of time and I'll get the big prize because I get him. Plus, Wingnut still has to work and I feel much better just knowing that even though we're paying her scads of money she still has to go somewhere every day. In fact, when I lay down my pretty head at night, I think "ah, wingnut is still working right now!".

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

You dont have to give up your money at all. For taxes do married filing seperate. Its your hubby that gives up his money to the old family then you make up for it (wink)

lol you'd think she'd at least by the real mccoy with all the chump change!

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

Agreed. Its good to here your situation from both sides. I am okay with dh supporting his kid as long as Wingnut has to do the same. Wingnut quit working the second she found out she was pregnant too. Literally walked out of her job when she found out she was pregnant. She thought she'd be a SAHM forever. I guess even that wouldn't bother me if she was a GOOD SAHM and the kid benefited from it, but she doesn't cook, clean, pay with the kid, take her to the park, etc. She sleeps all day.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

soon2be - so you are a sahm and accept cs, yet, didnt you say you share 50/50 split with your EH? If it is split down the middle, why does he have to give you anything? Just askin.

OMG we have the same BM!

DISbelief~

~You have to BE crazy to UNDERSTAND crazy!~

I never thought of it that way. Because DH must pay ex CS to essentially "keep up the previous lifestyle", his own family is suffering and dropping in their lifestyle because of the money that is going to lazy BM.. Cant a lawyer plead this concept to a judge? That is infuriating to think that current family's income drops because of money that is paid to a lazy BM from a previous relationship.. now how is that fair? Seriously, and Im not even kidding you, if I had to pay that biotch one penny you better believe I would make her life a living hell. i dont see how you guys do it. You must love your husbands more than i do.. lol!

Sounds like you are all adults. I wish everyone could be realistic. Guess we wouldn't need family courts then!

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

If the BM in my case was this reasonable, I would kiss her, and possibly tell DH to offer her more money for being such a saint.

~*~When you kiss ass, your breath smells like sh*t~*~

I'm with you all the way on this. Second families don't matter to the courts. First wives can be sahms (even if their children are in school) and live off dh while second wife has to work long days and put infants in day care for 10 hours. This pisses me off to no end. Plus if the economy tanks (which it has) everyone suffers except x wives. They still get their alimony and cs. There income is not affected at all even though the rest of us suffer.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

Who said the husband left for another woman leaving poor defenseless BM alone with the children? Who said these men were married when we met them???

Sorry but when I fell in love with my husband,he didn't have a posterboard stapled to his chest detailing his circumstances and how much money he paid to his ex in alimony and cs each month. Cs is necessary in most cases. MY issue is when these women get alimony.

Forgive me for saying so but you're speaking with tunnel vision. You're taking ONE "for instance" type situation and then labeling women that don't agree with you as selfish...not all of us have the situation your comment is referring to.

"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."

..."I'm not mean, you're just a sissy."

Not one single person on this thread said their situation fit this circumstance. Often these x wives who decided to be sahms are the ones who cheated, treated husbands badly and / or LEFT them (not in my circumstance, but in many). You are acting like the only way it works is that the wife in these situations was a happy homemaker who took care of the kids and had dinner on the table every night and was completely innocent and the husband stepped out on her for another woman and that other woman doesn't want him to own up to his responsibility. And you act like these fathers deserted their children. Most of them would love more time with their kids and these evil exes hold the kids hostage so they can squeeze as much money as they can out of the poor bastard.

NO ONE on here is saying that. My dh left his cracker jack x wife because she was emotionally and physically abusive. He put up with her crap for 20 years. He was working 70 hours a week, going to school full time and playing in bands to support her ridiculous idea of a perfect lifestyle, which included material things and had no concern for his well-being. She got pregnant after 16 years of marriage so she could "retire" and stay at home. She didn't cook or clean and she left the baby in her pajamas all day. The kid never went outside, never had playdates. Wingnut wouldn't even go to the grocery store, bank or to a doctor's appt. alone with the kid because "its too hard to do it all by myself". DH had a nervous breakdown because of all the damn pressure she put on him. He spent 7 days in the hospital and she visited him ONE time for 5 minutes because her parents forced her to do it. And then when he came home all she talked about was how HE had to make it up to HER that he got sick. He disagreed. She tried to stab him and he left.

She cost him nearly $90K in legal fees and mental health care professional costs, turned him into to Child Services with false accusations of abuse, and told his kid that "daddy doesn't love you and he beats you" for 2 long years while he fought for appropriate custodial time. And now after all her squabbling about him being a bad parent, she has us babysitting the kid on her court-ordered days and still collects a huge child support check. And guess who supported dh while all that money was going out the door to attorneys and everyone else? ME. If it weren't for ME they'd both had been screwed long ago because the house would have gone into foreclosure and they'd both have no credit. I did her a FAVOR by falling in love with dh.

SO YOU TELL ME WHY HE OWES HER A GOD DAMN THING?? She wasn't Mary Poppins scorned. She was and is an evil bitch who thinks that her wants are more important than my needs.

Maybe your circumstances involve what you thought was a perfect life and your husband was a prick. In that case, do what you need to do, but don't try to fit the rest of us into a hypocritical box just because we're helping pick up the pieces.

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

Gazzabicks, two woman dealing with the same man most always will resent each other...lol

All I'm saying is Alimony should be discussed for what it is...income. You are now employing your x-spouse. Alimony shouldn't be based on the amount of time you were married or if one spouse made oogles of money--child support is already income based alimony shouldn't be. It should be negotiated. It could go on as long as you want it to.

If, he/she is a rotten "employee" then they should be fired. In my theory he/she would get a pay-cut...a GRADUAL reduction of support over x amount of time....ie 5 years at 100% w/ 20% retrograde or whatever. She can also co-habitate with someone and still receive alimony as well. This would encourage the non-working ex to move on from the relationship. Likely, the x who's "employing" him/her at this point will want to open alimony up for negotiation but it may not stop completely depending circumstances.

I don't believe an x-spouse who AGREED to support the X would throw her under the bus for another woman. They are already a commendable sort. If a woman this man meets doesn't like it he can tell her to bugger off. And of course the non-working spouse can challenge him in court. Depending on the circumstances the courts would determine the retrograde of alimony.

My theory gives advantages to everyone. Non-workng spouse can live on it, date, fall in love and move on. He/She'd behave better if she understood that alimony isn't an automatic grant. The x who's paying should have the option to open up the agreement and renegotiate.

I think the chief complaint isn't about the support itself. It's how much support is being taken and not used properly by the women who are receiving it. Personally, my irritation is about the alimony but that's another thread totally! lol

Circumstances when they met the man and circumstances in the present can change. How many stories have we read about BM's getting angry the husband got remarried then taking him back to court to get more money from him and then the SM has to pitch her income in just to help pay legal expenses. I'm sure for many people, there was a set agreement and they did accept it originally as a fact of being with their man but I bet they weren't aware that their income would be spent on legal fees fighting the BM when she tried to get even more than she already was getting. THOSE are the things I see people complaining about the most and rightfully so. We start off accepting, then Bm gets vindictive and changes the game up therefore, the SM is dealing with a totally different arrangment to what she agreed to in the first place.

That doesn't make her selfish necessarily...

"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."

..."I'm not mean, you're just a sissy."

When FH and I met, he'd been paying child support and alimony to his ex for five years. The ex went back to school, picked up a one-year college diploma, and started working part-time. She didn't have to work full-time because she was receiving so much in support payments. Her kids at this point were 9, 11 & 13.

When FH and I got engaged, the first thing we did was get him a divorce. Then I insisted he apply to the court to stop the alimony payments. The ex had already improved her ability to work to support herself; she didn't need his support. And there was no way I was going to help him financially and combine our incomes while he was supporting another woman. So that has now ended. She cried in court when she found out he would no longer be her primary source of income.

I don't resent the amount he pays in child support. In my mind, that makes him a good father and a good provider. What I DO resent is the fact that the ex can decide her children should be entitled to school trips to Europe and expensive modelling lessons, without input from FH, and ask the court to order his percentage of the expenses.

The court did support her claim for trips to Europe; last year we forked out $4000 extra to send the two oldest. In another year, the third skid will go as well. In an intact family, both parents would discuss their finances and decide whether expensive trips were economically feasible. The way things are now, BM can decide on her own and force him to pay out money he doesn't have.

Yes, I knew the circumstances when I met him. Then I changed what circumstances I could for my own peace of mind and his own financial stability. I'm counting down the days until he is no longer forced to pay out the teeth for extras.

Damn right she should work. There's no reason why she shouldn't work to support her own children and the entitled lifestyle she has created for them.

In our case, the courts have ordered FH to pay so much in child support and extra expenses that he would not be able to support himself if he didn't have my income. He would be reduced to renting a basement apartment with a t.v. and a lawn chair for furnishings. The sad thing is, the court would then turn around and tell him he couldn't have visitation with his kids in his basement apartment because he wouldn't be able to afford bedrooms for them.

Courts where we live don't give a rat's ass how much the father has left over after paying for his children.

Surely the courts would do such a thing is some cases. The courts do not take into consideration MANY things when doing the calculation.
1. They don't include any retirement savings that dh puts away so we aren't in the street down the road
2. they assume his earning capacity stays the same, so any "subjective" bonuses he may have got last year are included in the calculation. there are TWO major problems with this, a) he may not get a bonus due to a downturn in the economy, which is exactly what we're dealing with right now. Wingnut and SD benefited from $20000 of money we're never going to see. They don't HAVE to live in the real world where sometimes shit happens. Their pay stays the same. and b) even if we got that bonus we get it in a lump sum, but Wingnut and SD get it spread throughout the year so it creates a cash flow problem (i.e., wingnut gets cs = 30% of $20000 or $6000 spread over 12 months or $500 per month) so we have to live on $500 less money every month.
3. The calculation doesn't take into account that dh pays for ALL medical and dental insurance premiums and all co-pays since Wingnut is forbidden by court order from taking SD to the pediatrician.
4. DH's expenses aren't considered in the calculation, so if we have a broken furnace, a new car (or an old car that needs repairs), or a sick child, or hospital bills (I had $3000 in hospital bills last year), increase in real estate taxes

"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!

Thank you livlaugh! You said everything tht I would've said...but with more patience and grace than I would have.

PLEASE, ladies - lets call this CS conundrum what it is! Legalized embezzlement!! Oh, don't get me started.

It's amazing that for so many years, we hard-working, determined women have fought so hard for EQUALITY and CHANGE. For years, women like our own mothers and grandmothers have fought for things like EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK and are determined to "break the glass ceiling" that was created by men in years past. So women have fought so hard for so many years just to be treated equally. Then at the same time, some women (BM's) want to be able to say "but he has to still support me because poor me, I've never worked before...and I don't know how to...and I need help because I can't do it myself...I don't know how...I can't".

It saddens me...no, it actually disgusts me...when women like these BM's take all of that hard work and turn women into hypocrites. These BM's just basically use their children as ATM cards and their ex-husbands as the ATM machine...bilking these men of more and more money and not going out and earning it themselves.

GET OUT THERE, LADIES (BM'S) AND GET TO WORK AND EARN YOUR OWN MONEY TO SUPPORT YOURSELF!! Where is your pride? Your self worth? How can you look yourself in the mirror and smile when you see someone intentionally dependent upon someone else to support you? If you are not out there EARNING what you have, you'll never have the satisfaction of knowing how it feels to have EARNED IT ALL BY YOURSELF!!

The car I'm driving...I bought it
The house I live it....I bought it
The shoes I'm wearing...I bought it
'Cause I depend on...ME!!!
(OK, I admit, these lyrics were stolen from a very popular song not too many years ago by Destiny's Child, I think).