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I almost came un-glued last night

Thisisnotus's picture

This topic was one of my first posts on this site.

SD16 called DH last night to ask him if he would pay half a 6K car...and you know that would also mean pay for all if not half of car insurance. Mind you, BM asked DH the same question about 6 months ago and he said no. My blood was boiling........as this is fresh off of back to school shopping where BM didn't buy one single thing for skids....nothing not even a pencil. So DH had to buy it all....clothes, shoes, backpacks, supplies, lunch boxes, etc.....

Where my DH went wrong last night was telling me that he was going to reply to SD16 that "there are alot of variables and your mom and I will have to discuss it" UMMM.....hmmmm....okay....financial decisions in my house are now made between DH and BM? yeah...no. I sat there silently....he didn't send that reply...instead he finally asked what I though....I said absolutely not.

Now let me list my reasonings (pros/cons) and see if you guys think I'm out of line for saying no.

Cons

-SD16 doesn't have a license....went to driving school 8 months ago...failed test...hasn't driven since

-she quit her summer job after 1 week b/c she is "too young to work"

-the entire summer she laid on the couch and never even once put a single dish away or picked up her clothes or trash. she has also never once done anything we've asked her as far as helping around the house.

-DH pays alot of CS and half of all other "bills" BM sends him. Plus he pays for everything that comes up when he has the kids which is 50% of the time (when BM isn't withholding them). BM buys them almost nothing....what my DH doesn't buy...MIL buys. Where does it end? We have a child together....and he has 2 other kids and I have 3 other kids....DH has to draw the line somewhere? right?

-DH took pretty much all credit card debt during the divorce so he's paying alot on that debt that came from he and BM...I know this is part of the deal I'm just listing it for the sake of this post.

-DH would have ZERO say over this car as he has ZERO say over anything regaring skids. BM calls the shots and at the end of the day this would be BM's car that she would hold over SD's head like she does everything else. It's just a horrible idea all around.

Pros

She could take herself to and from school.

I would say a pro would be that the SD could now take over getting herself and her sister to and from BM's and our house.....allieviated my DH from running all over town....but BM would never allow that.

Am I being mean? We also don't have 3K just sitting around to hand over to BM for a car for SD. So now SD  hung up on DH last night with something like "fine I guess I'll never drive".

I know it's not over.....even though my DH ultimately told her last night "no". It won't stop...she will beg him....BM will end up calling him.....and since I've already said "no" we are in for  a serious problem if he in fact says "yes".

 

susanm's picture

What is the deal with kids getting cars when they don't have licenses?  It seems to me to be a pretty obvious ploy to get the BM a new car.  Why not just say that it is stupid to even discuss until she gets her license?  If she is like most skids, that will be years from now.

Thisisnotus's picture

it wouldn't be for BM, she's got a nice fancy car already. She isn't hurting financially by any means.

and yes I agree....why on earth would anybody get a kid a car who not only doesn't have a license.....

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

Let's be real. What is it with kids feeling entitled to cars period?  I don't think a kid NEEDS their own car.  Thank goodness DH agrees.  We both feel we'll have a spare FAMILY car that the kids will be allowed to use when they have their licenses (so long as they follow the rules... Car rights can be revoked) but that they don't need THEIR OWN car.

So here there's a kid with no license, feeling entitled to a car already.  I can't blame OP at all for being frustrated!  

ITB2012's picture

That was my philosophy (used family car as extra for kids to borrow) yet BM went ahead and got OSS a car before he had a license (the infamous “winter car”).

I probably wouldn’t have gotten the extra car if DH hadn’t been so adamant that the winter car was not for the skids, he asked. DS could have borrowed one of our cars. We had it for about six months before OSS got his license and magically got to drive the winter car. 

futurobrillante99's picture

Exactly.

I know it's different because I was still married to XH1, but we bought a small pickup truck before our eldest got his license. That car belonged to US, not him. It was for the kids to drive. He drove it for 3 years until his sister got her license, then she drove it until she went to college. On college breaks, they had to share.

We owned the car so we could control it. All drivers HAD to work to pay for gas and insurance, unless they were pulling down good grades and involved in school related extra curriculars (example: DD26 didn't have to work/pay insurance while she played tennis for her high school and got honor roll grades).

It's different when there are two households, but NO. I would not help buy a car for a kid that I had no say over.

twoviewpoints's picture

What does she need a car for? She flunked her drivers test and has shown no desire to drive again for 8 months. 

If he and you ever decide to think about helping with a vehicle, I would assume it would not be one BM/SD picked out and said "pay half for this"... but instead would be one Dad went along to select, negotiate on and had your households approval of the purchase.

So she hung up on Dad. Who cares. He  (I assume ) can get over one teen's temper fit. 

If I counted correctly there are seven kids total? Yeah, no , I wouldn't commit to cars. That's a whole lot of cars considering all the kids will be expecting one. 

 

Thisisnotus's picture

she doesn't really need a car....BM wouldn't really let her do anything besides drive to and from school anyway...

BM would never allow DH to go select the car, she just wants him to hand over cash to her. She would never give up the control over the car, shes the negioater and has to run the show. DH will never get my approval to help get skids a car while he is still paying CS and everything else under the sun.....

My DD16 has a cheap car her father bought for her on his own accord...but she has a job. My DD14 will be getting a car from me when she is 16....b/c I get alot of CS and I think it's my responsibility.....also she will have a small job....and she helps me around the house...she would have the house all cleaned up when I got home from work all summer long....

I'm sure DH is super bothered by her hanging up on him, which is this won't go away. To date, he has never said no to skids and stuck to it. Every single time he caves after they beg and says yes.....

There are 6 kids....the older 5 kids are all in middle and high school so yes...way too many close in age to buy everyone a car....

Gimlet's picture

All of the other (significant) stuff aside, I agree with you about this car.

1. She has no license, doesn't feel she should have to work, and has a poor attitude.  A car is a privilege, not a right.

2. If the car is in BM's name, your DH has no control over his half of the investment.

3. Insurance isn't cheap, see above about SD's lack of work ethic.

3. A 6k car is going to need work at some point and then ongoing.  Who is going to foot the bill for that? 

4. This is a dangerous precedent with that many kids.

Given the circumstances, this would be a hard no from me.

Thisisnotus's picture

yes! Those are all of the points I made to DH. It would end up costing him a fortune for something he has absolutely no say in.

It is a very hard no from me...probably the hardest no so far of anything that's come up in my blended family life.

Harry's picture

And save some money for insurance and things like gas.  Second she needs a drivers license.  Then we talk about getting a car   With any luck it’s will be years before she works any length of time 

blessedwithstress's picture

You are absolutely in the right on this one. No job and no license should = no car. Period. And maybe it's just me but the fact that DH already told BM no about the car 6 months ago makes SDs request now seem a little manipulative. 

Thisisnotus's picture

oh for sure and I have no doubt that BM told SD to call her dad and ask.....that is how pretty much all things go when BM knows DH will say no to her.

Kes's picture

I don't agree with buying young kids cars when they are only just old enough to drive, to me it encourages an entitled attitude.  It doesn't tend to happen much in the UK where I live.  Kids are expected to get a part time job and pay the lion's share of (secondhand) car expenses through that - but tbh, not many teens have cars at all here. They go by public transport, mostly. 

 

tog redux's picture

In most places of the U.S, there really isn't any public transportation.  If you live in NYC you don't need a car, but where I live in the suburbs, if the kid doesn't have a car, then the parent has to drive them all over hell's half-acre for their sports practices, jobs, etc. 

tog redux's picture

Your DH missed a golden opportunity to be a PARENT and not an ATM:

"Well SD, when you actually get your license, then we can discuss a car. Want to go driving this weekend?" 

My SS is 19.5 and still doesn't have a license. But apparently BM had a car waiting for him for 2 years. They had to jockey it around the driveway all the time.  So stupid - she likes to give gifts, but can't push him to actually get his dang license.  She has always been his pal, but never his parent. 

Then these parents wonder why their kids never grow up and leave home. 

Thisisnotus's picture

Shockingly he did tell her that she needed to get her license first and that the two of them would start doing more driving......that is when she hung up on him.

ESMOD's picture

Number one.. absolutely.. SD needs to get her license.  She can drive her mom's car to her job..

That brings us to number 2.  If you want to drive, you must be working to earn the money for insurance and gas... then..

Number 3.  Mom and Dad are willing to help those that help themselves.  Mom and Dad are willing to split half the cost of a vehicle.. up to 1500/per parent.  So.. you want a 6K car?  You save 3K.. then mom gives you 1500 and I will give you 1500.  4K car?  you come up with 2k and mom and I will each put in 1k.  And... you again are respopnsible for 100% the cost of ownership of that car.. gas.. repairs.. insurance etc...

(note I am saying Mom & Dad... obviously OP has a "say" in this.. but she doesn't have any financial obligation... and the agreement with the child should be between her and her parents... but obviously the bio parents should be making this agreement with consent with their SO's.).

This was the deal we had with my younger SD.. I have to say that it made her very much more disciplined about saving money. 

 

 

Thisisnotus's picture

I see what you are saying but in my house it is just not happening, it's impossible. I am standing firm on no, dh is not giving a penny towards a car. Maybe once SD is over 18 and the CS stops he can help with a car that is in SDs name...not BMs...as this car would be.....but my DH just simply can't pay almost 1K in CS, have the skids 1/2 of the time, buy ALL of their clothes and pay for 1/2 if not ALL of anything else that comes.....as of now I have not uttered a single word to my DH about how I feel about how much money he forks over (out of guilt) on top of CS......but this will be the breaking point for me especially since I said NO.

And the fact that DH and I share a child means that he just can't give all of his money to his ex and skids.....

I hope he doesn't, but I have this feeling that he is going to approach me with this again....and the thing is he already told BM no months ago, I told him NO and he has told SD NO. End of story, clearly it's a no. Well we will wait and see.......

 

ESMOD's picture

Well... part of that discussion if it comes around is you both deciding how and where resources can be spent.  CS is a "non-negotiable" item.. he HAS to pay that.. and any other legally mandated costs.  Perhaps if he is willing to take money from some of the other categories of "volunteer" spending he might be able to put it aside for a car instead.

There is zero harm in SD understanding that there is a financial point of no return and that she may need to decide what is most important to her because her father is not going to be able to do it "all".  So.. does she want to skip new clothes for the fall?  Does she want to skip her fall extra curriculars?

I can definitely see how you are frustrated that your DH has been not too great at being a gatekeeper for your household finances.  If it can't be afforded.. then it can't be afforded.  If he insists.. tell him you want an equal amount of cash now to go to some savings for your child.. can he afford to do both? if he can't.. then he dials back to what he CAN afford to do.

Obviously, your earnings don't count.. it's what HE can afford.

Maybe he is willing to do 1k... and able.. to do that.. and will offset by saying "no" to some spending.  Honestly.. if he puts a big financial obligation on his daughter.. it is likely not going to come to pass that he every has to give her the money anyway..lol.

Thisisnotus's picture

yes, I agree. Other than CS, half of medical bills is the ONLY other mandated cost. Thats the thing...I know him..he wouldn't take money from other categories...he would still spend all of the extra plus the cost of the car b/c he can't say no to them. I also know that SD and BM would expect to DH to pay for everything car related....but  have zero say about the car and when/where/if SD can drive it.

skids don't know DH pays CS......and SD won't want to skip anything. She thinks if she says jump everyone should jump and I"m dealing with a guilty daddy over here who can't say no...which is why I'm trying to stop this situation with the car.

he doesn't have an extra 3K just sitting around.....so he absolutley cannot afford it. BM made sure to make his life a finacnial hell in the divorce..luckily b/c of me...I got him right out of the hell/debt and she was PISSED...haha...I guess thats where I don't  understand how they think he has all this money to fork over.

even if he did 1K  he is still giving money for a car in BM's name that he has zero control over....I guess that's an issue for me.

I do not think DH and BM have any business going on a joint venture on anything.....the kid is 18 in 2 years....then things change.

ESMOD's picture

I would be happy to let the car be in their name.. means it's HER insurance.. not yours if SD gets in an accident.

If you both are inclined to think that helping a kid with their first car purchase.. then fine.. you guys can do that for "all" your kids.. but everyone needs to understand that money isn't in an infinite bucket.. there are limits.  He can say "yes" to one thing and "no" to others.

By enforcing that she save in advance for at least a significant portion of the car.. she IS learning responsibility and the value of working for what you want.  that might be a "cheap" lesson at 1k from him.  even if he doesn't have a ton of say over the car..

Thisisnotus's picture

yes I agree, but BM would then expect half of insruance...half of the insurance hike if she wrecks...it would never end.

I agree that she should save money..totall agree!!!....and she should start now and then at 18 DH can give her a couple thousand maybe....but not now while everything is under BMs control....its just a bad idea.

tog redux's picture

I do not understand these men. Which part of "you are being taken advantage of" Is unclear to them? My DH has not ever given BM one cent above what he's legally mandated to pay, nor has he given any to SS.  Neither of them even bother to ask because they know it's a NO.  And if SS ever hung up on DH for any reason, he sure as hell wouldn't be thinking about getting him some expensive item in the future.  BM gets 1K a month in CS.My  SS19 sits around on his lazy butt doing nothing with his life.  Why would DH even consider handing those two leeches more money? Because he feels guilty that he left BM, who was cheating on him? 

All of this guilty spending makes their kids entitled. Why is that so hard for them to see?

Thisisnotus's picture

I wish I had the answer......it's maddening. I was pretty annoyed this weekend when skids showed up saying BM bought them NOTHING for school that started in 2 days....so he went and dropped hundreds on whatever they picked out....how about send BM a bill? She sends DH a bill for every G-damn thing on earth.

I complain on here a ton....but in real life...I put up with a lot and don't say a word. This may be my hill to die on so to speak.....I won't be able to disengage and I won't be okay with it.

tog redux's picture

Plus, I'm sure they have clothes they can wear to school, it's not like they'd have to go in their underwear.  But BM knows that if she sends the kids over to guilt DH, he'll spend the money on them and she doesn't have to.

Why do divorced parents think spending money somehow makes up for their divorce? How does making your kids greedy and entitled assauge someone's guilt?

I just don't get it. 
 

Thisisnotus's picture

They have plenty of clothes, you are right.

Right? These kids are so greedy...my own kids are guilty of it too between my ex and I. Trying to play everything to their advantage.

 

Gimlet's picture

Whoa, so SD is 16 and doesn't know that her dad pays CS?  Yikes!  

Then DH is giving 50% of expenses, is expected to contribute to a car that he has no control over, and paying for all the school clothes based on the skids saying they needed them??   Kids always say that and it's often not even true. 

SD needs to know that her mom is getting CS for some of this and DH needs to reel it in.  

Thisisnotus's picture

Whoa is right. She has no clue on earth.

Kids do always say that, I agree. Mine do all the time...BM didn't actually take them to one single store in the last 2 months to get anything for school....MIL took them a couple times so I know they had stuff from her.....

Maybe now is the time for DH to actually let SD know the real deal....that he does in fact send money to BM every month and that he isn't an atm with unlimited funds.

Gimlet's picture

I know some disagree with me, but I think it's just a fact of life and teens are old enough to know.  She needs to know that dad is contributing in multiple ways already.

Been there with all this.  Now that they've aged out, it's much better to be able to help the kids and set boundaries (which DH is still learning sometimes) directly. 

NotURMomma's picture

Disengage your money. Put it where DuH can’t take it. Make him pay his obligations in your home. 

HowBoutScottyDont's picture

Just chiming in... to agree with the rest. SD can live without a car - she's already been doing it for this long without a license. And your DH should not get himself involved with BM financially beyond his court ordered support. A car would end up being a joint asset between him and BM.

But this is all moot, of course, because your SD can't legally drive or hold a job. So the next time she asks, DH should put it back on her "SD, a car sounds great. When you get your license, and have a clean driving record for 6 months, and have a plan to pay for your insurance and gas, I will look at my finances to consider how I can contribute to YOUR monthly payment. Perhaps $50 a month, assuming you keep a clean driving record, drive your siblings to and from my home, and run errands for me. I'm telling you all this now so that you can plan accordingly. Good luck honey!"

My SD asked for the same right before she got her license. DH ultimately said no, thankfully, but that was after I and my inlaws told DH that he was nuts to do it.

One solution we came up with during summers on days where DH and I needed to get to work, and we had to get LOs to daycare, but SS and SD had activities... DH would let SD drive his car to get herself and SS around, and DH rented car for himself. For $30 a day, he was able to get a sedan. SD was already insured as a driver. We had maybe 10 days between last summer and throughout the school year where we did the rental.

Thisisnotus's picture

thank you! YES that is what I am saying....do not in halves with BM on a car...are you nuts???

Here is the thing....we have an "extra" car so to speak...dh has a work car so his personal vehicle is very rarely used and sits in the driveway 90% percent of the time.....she could probably drive it while at hour house....but it's not going to BM's....so that's probably a different issue....and it's expensive and she'd probably crash it into something ughhhhh well and then we'd be stuck with paying her on car insurance...which also is a no from me....

 

CLove's picture

Yep, after reading this and comments, thats a hill to die on.

For us, SD20 Feral Forger STILL has no license!!!!

My DH is a mechanic and sometimes people GIVE him cars, or gets them SUPER cheaply. 4k for a used car? OH MY he would never pay that!!!!! Not in a million years. He would pay MAYBEY 1k or 1,500. Thats it, though. And these are BMWs we are talking about not toyotas or hondas. Im definitely making sure that SD13 Munchkin learns how to drive and gets her license. Ive spoken to her about it, and she will get used definitely, and she might get a non-bmw just for gas savings. She will have a parttime job. So, Im preping her.

Your SD16 sounds REALLY REALLY spoiled.

Do you have plans to sit your DH down and go over finances? My DH doesnt give more than CS - thats utterly ridiculous. Forking over cash to BM - not going to happen here!

Thisisnotus's picture

Thank you. I'm glad you all see where I'm coming from and that this is such a big deal. And there is so much that has happend leading up to now.....this will be it for me. And b/c I already said NO and he agreed that the answer SHOULD be no.......if he does it anyway without my consent...things will always be this way. He will do it....mark my word....he will find a way to do it and make it seem like he had to for his kids sake.....I will then probably file for divorce. And he won't do it b/c he wants to....b/c he is angry that she even asked him.....it will be once again out of guilt.

I almost laughed when my DH said the car was 6 grand....are you kidding me?

He is not someone you can talk to or discuss things with  very easily. He is trying to keep too many people happy but he's actually keeping nobody happy...

 

 

Siemprematahari's picture

This would be a hill to die on for me as well. If he goes back on his word now you won't ever be able to trust what he says again.....this is huge and hope he stands his ground.

Thisisnotus's picture

Thank you. I feel so much better after reading this. I often come here to vent in the heat of the moment and usually don't mean all that I say b/c I'm angry at the time.

But I slept on this one and posted this morning. I am glad I am not alone in thinking that this is a huge thing and worthy of a hill to die on.....b/c quite frankly I was going to a questionable hill when I thought DH might be asked to pay part of skids car insurance...b/c again I was thinking when does the money run out??? he only has so much......now its the actual car....so here we are....and now it's just wait and see I guess.

For my sanity and for my DH's sake, the conversation should be over after last night....but you know how that goes.

Thisisnotus's picture

Guys!! I’m gonna lose it. It’s already started again.

sd called him at work all day....so now BM says the car can be in DHs name and she will give him half. Hahahaha BM is smarter than dh cause now we are financially responsible for insurance, property tax, maintenance. Dh calls me to try and plead SDs case.....and he’s considering it.it’s not going to be a pretty evening in my home tonight.

VA GIRLFRIEND's picture

I'm in a similar situation: I have three step-daughters with my SO. They are all preteens (roughly) and we'll be dealing with the car issue in a couple years. For now, I think we've agreed to do a "family car" (like ProbablyAlready wrote) when it's time for that. But along the lines of a car, we recently had a discussion with one daughter about getting a DOG.

This SD is super sweet, but not particularly responsible (granted, she's only in sixth grade) but she wants a DOG. So my dad (step-grandfather) had a good idea for us: He said, instead of getting her a DOG and then hoping she'll be "responsible" (i.e., walking it most days, making sure water re-filled, etc.), you should reverse it. Let her be responsible FIRST. Then, think about getting the DOG.

I like the way my dad thinks. Perhaps the OP could do the same for the car??

ESMOD's picture

That's why we made my sd come up with half and set a limit. I have a feeling that the militant line of dh. You cant. Will probably fail. Make him get dd to agree to terms and meet those terms. 

Thisisnotus's picture

The only thing is that I am 100 percent against DH getting her a car so even if she was responsible it would be a no. Simply because he already pays for too much and because BM would control the car and I think it would cause even more drama between BM and DH and SD, which also affects me and the other kids in my house.

we have an extra car at our house.....dh has a work car so if SD gets her license....when she is here she is welcome to use a car but she can’t keep it at BMs at all....then BM can figure out something else for her house. Problem solved 

Bethany's picture

We had to pay in full for a car loan my DH signed for ---for our irresponsible 30-something SD! I knew nothing of this and was livid when I found out! You can bet, he will NEVER do that again! 

 

1wonder woman's picture

My parents were divorced when I was a kid and they never bought me my first car no I had to work and pay for my own car.  I walked to and from work everyday and I saved my won money up then I bought my first car.  So I personally believe that kids should be taught to work and save their own money first before they are allowed to buy their first car. They will end up appreciating it more and hopefully take better care of it. Plus car insurance for a new young driver usually cost more money unless she has good grades that can help lower the price..

My SO did not help pay for his daughter or his sons first cars.. he refused. He was also raised like I was so he does not believe in spoiling his kids.  He refused to cosign for any car loans too and his ex-wife was so mad because she asked him to cosign...  he stood his ground and said no and today he is so thankful that he did say no because shortly after their divorce his son that was 17 years old at the time was in a bad car accident.  His son was speeding and ran a red light and he hit another car totaled both cars.  Well the guy that he hit almost died and he had to have surgery and to this day is disabled. His son did not get hurt at all... His car insurance covered only up to a certain dollar amount.  So the guy took his son and his ex-wife to court sued them both because the car and the car insurance was both in her name and he was under 18. Well the guy won the case was awarded additional money and now there is a lien on the house that his ex-wife owns plus her and her sons wages are being garnished. Her son did buy another car and now his car insurance rates went through the roof.  What a big mess...  his ex-wife even wanted her ex-husband to help her pay for the boys car insurance after the rates went up. He refused...