4 questions, Advice needed
This may come across as venting (which it sort of is) but I'm actually looking for advice. Even if you have time for just one question, I would be very grateful to hear your opinions!
SD12 and SS14 are here EOW and then some. I disengaged this year and its very awkward but better than playing super stepmom. They ignore me and thats just fine since DH is too guilt ridden to discipline them and BM poisons them against us both.
1) After watching the kids go in and out of our office and poke around one Saturday for absolutely no apparent reason, I asked them to stay out of there. They are loyal to crazy BM so I feel like they shouldn't be looking through my mail, taxes, medical bills, etc. At the next visit, they were right back in the office again. This time, I told DH that I wasn't comfortable with them hanging out in there when he wasn't around. His response? "It doesn't bother me, its fine." How can I reasonably address this? We are married and share finances for a variety of reasons so separating office stuff entirely is not an option. Should I argue with him about it? Put my foot down with the skids directly? I don't want to engage any more than I need to to protect myself!
2) When I decided to disengage, I made it clear that in addition to me not cooking their meals, he would have to do his own food shopping for the skids. They only like junk and processed foods and I'm pregnant and trying to eat healthy anyway. DH is too lazy though. He puts it off and puts it off and next I know, skids are here and whining as they stuff my all natural, expensive food into their ungrateful mouths. One night, SS14 came downstairs and drank an entire half gal of organic orange juice because he was thirsty! They eat foods I'm planning on having and when they leave, I'm stuck making an extra trip to the grocery store. It grinds my gears knowing that I'm paying for someone else's McDonald's addicted kids to have quality food I can barely afford for myself. Besides locking up everything I've bought EOW, how can I deal with this? Since he refuses to tell the skids "No" should I go directly to them and tell them no myself? How do I explain to them why no?
3) This may be beating a dead horse since I've seen this asked many times but I still don't feel like I know the answer.... I feel a sense of freedom in not taking care of his kids but I also feel somewhat trapped now. For instance, if I would like to make myself a steak dinner, I feel awkward cooking and eating it in front of his kids who are having leftover Chinese so I sneak some chips and go to bed hungry. I end up not doing what I want in my own home all weekend and feel like a different kind of prisoner. Should I continue this sneaking around? Should I eat my steak right in front of them and try to not care? What do I say if SS asks why he can't have what I'm having?
4) And the most controversial question... I've known the kids since they were little and they've been staying at my house (now our house) for 6 years. I'm a very casual person and am always in PJs with no bra when I'm just at home. One of the few advantages us flat chested girl have 
I don't generally change for close friends and family either. A few weeks ago when the skids were here, DH made some comment about being able to tell I had nipples through my shirt and didn't I want to change. My first thought was "Umm, f*@% no! I have to look at DH and SS bare nipples regularly and mine are covered just fine thanks!" And the more I thought about it, the more annoyed I got. DH would rather make me uncomfortable in my own home than have a single conversation with his son about anything serious. It seems crazy to me that I should need to wear special clothes because the skids are around. What would you do?
1) Seriously considering the
1) Seriously considering the lock but it will be a lot of work for nothing if he then tells the kids the code or refuses to keep it locked when they're around. Hmmm.
2) I have insisted and he literally refuses. Its mostly laziness (why would he put effort into it when the kids will just eat the food I buy?) but I'm sure there's a passive aggressive element too. I've shopped/eaten around the skids schedule before and though its possible, it does suck. May have to go back to that though.
3) I should have been more specific...I don't mean that I would sit at the table with them and stuff steak into my face. I just meant that they certainly can see and smell my food and it probably looks/tastes better than whatever DH is feeding them. I absolutely will not cook anything for these children anymore. I cooked/prepared all of their food with us for may years and can't stand one more meal with them whining and complaining. Watching DH let them throw away food I cooked is more than I can stand. SS also likes to spend the entire meal talking about how much better BM makes everything. DH once accused me of "controlling what they eat" by doing all of the food shopping! Guess it never occurred to him that he was welcome to buy his own stuff. lol Thoughts?
4) I certainly don't behave as if I were home alone when skids are here. I wear what I would wear if I had friends over. It does seem odd to me that I should have to wear clothes that I don't even find necessary in public I guess.
Yes, there is absolutely no communication about any of this right now and I would very much like to work on it. It seems the moment I stopped doing everything for his kids, I didn't deserve any say in what happens in my home. DH literally won't talk.
Don't give him a key either.
Don't give him a key either. You keep it locked when they're around. Easy,
In theory I love this but it
In theory I love this but it will go over like a lead balloon with DH. Will have to at least try a softer approach to start, with this as backup I think.
1) I would definitely have a
1) I would definitely have a serious chat with DH about WHY you do not want them in the office. Short of making copies of all of your & DH's financials and personal info and giving to the kids to take to BM, I would somehow get my point across. I would put a lock on the door if I had to.
2) Yes, you should directly tell the kids that your foods are off limits, as you are on a special eating plan and if they are hungry, they need to take it up with their dad. A mini fridge might make a nice addition to that locked office. No, you shouldn't have to lock up your food but if they are not going to respect what is yours....
3) I would feel awkward about this, too but if you've already decided that your DH takes care of their meals, well, eat what you want. You are an adult in your home. If their dad feeds them leftover Chinese food, that's what they eat.
4) I would use your DH's line from #1, "It doesn't bother me, it's fine."
1) Considering a lock. 2)
1) Considering a lock.
2) Also loving the idea of mini fridge. That would get the message across. I think I'll give it one more weekend where I let the skids know directly to see how the food situation goes before spending the money.
3) Thanks for the encouragement.
4) lmao! How perfect is that? jk, jk! But seriously, its my body and my clothes so you'd think that if I was comfortable...
^^ 100% agree with this!! Put
To add, I am not flat chested
To add, I am not flat chested so have never been comfortable not wearing a bra, but nipples can be seen through a bra, as well.
I assume by PJs, you are not talking lingerie.
Oh hell no! I'm talking about
Oh hell no! I'm talking about oversized fleece sweatpants and a t-shirt.
I very much appreciate the
I very much appreciate the thought you all put into responding! If it seems otherwise, I certainly don't mean to argue. Sometimes I need to question things to figure them out.
Just chiming in on #4: every
Just chiming in on #4: every day women are asked to do all sorts of things for the sake of men. The argument you're making is the same kind (if not degree) as "women should do XYZ so as not to provoke a man into raping her"--how about we just teach men not to rape? Why aren't we teaching boys and men that no matter what women wear, men are responsible for their own sexuality? How about instead of asking his wife (an adult who lives there and only there) to be "modest" (she ain't walkin' around in lingerie!), he has a conversation with his son, who could use a few lessons about what is natural (nipples) and how to handle one's own "horniness"?
OP, I too wear pajama pants and baggy shirts with no bra while I'm home (half an A cup, haha). You do you, girl. It's your house. If SS is uncomfortable around you (and it doesn't sound like he is, but rather, DH is), he can stay with BM or DH can take him out to play ball at the park or whatever low-cost activity he enjoys. Like someone else said--"It doesn't bother me, so it's fine!"
You can't compare an erect
You can't compare an erect penis to erect nipples. An erect penis is a sign of male sexual arousal, erect nipples are not. It is not ANY woman's responsibility to "cover-up" a natural, physiological response to cold (or whatever--I have the issue of near constant hard nipples--TMI) because a make cannot control his hormones or thoughts. Suggesting or insisting that this is the OP's (ir ANY woman's) responsibility just adds to rape culture. If the OP is wearing something that she would wear around guests, including friends and family, her DH is out of line asking her to cover up more because he's too fucking lazy to have a talk with his son about respecting women and not objectifying them. Hormones or not, boys need to be taught to respect women and their bodies, and that our bodies are not here for their entertainment or sexual arousal.
"Teens going through puberty
"Teens going through puberty get erections when the wind blows."
But an equally valid option
But an equally valid option is to tell son not to look, isn't it? DH is uncomfortable, not the OP, so why is it up to OP to solve the problem?
Tommar, no, I would not tell
Tommar, no, I would not tell any girl to cover up so as not to excite a boy. Thats ridiculous. If there is an issue where a young man can't control himself and he is harassing a girl (getting an erection, though embarrassing, isn't in itself harassment) by staring, touching, saying inappropriate things, HE is the one who needs to change. Surely you can see that people have a right to body integrity so cuddling and touching someone is very different from being in your own body, not touching someone.
Did I miss where the teen is
Did I miss where the teen is staring, touching, or saying inappropriate things?
"I wanted to point out this
"I wanted to point out this has nothing to do with rape culture. It has everything to do with dad not wanting his son to see his wifes erect nipples."
Your ignorance on the subject is part of the problem.
Making women responsible for
Making women responsible for men's thoughts is rape culture. There have been many times in human history that women were considered to be the hornier, more sexually out of control gender. Your views are a product of culture not biology. You don't seem to have any clue what rape culture is but you are very sure you aren't part of it.
I'm going to ignore any further posts in which you imply I'm attempting to show SS my bare chest.
Since we very first met over
Since we very first met over a decade ago, this is what I wear. DH is uncomfortable because he doesn't want to communicate about anything real with his son. Boo hoo.
Maybe in the future don't tell other people they are wrong about something you can't even define. You are welcome to lock you kid in your home and get rid of all screens, women and animals so that he doesn't see any nipples. Unless you've been living under a rock, you are aware that schools that have dress codes designed to keep boys from being distracted by girls (ridiculous) are increasingly under fire for promoting rape culture. Yes, lets talk about boundaries. Your rights end where my body begins. End of story.
http://www.marshall.edu/wcenter/sexual-assault/rape-culture/
Dizzy, thank you for
Dizzy, thank you for explaining why an erection is different from nipples.
The rape culture connection certainly doesn't escape me and I think thats part of why my initial reaction was so strong. Thank you for explaining this too!
Yes, we are serious. This is
Yes, we are serious.
This is where rape culture starts, by making women responsible for men's thoughts, glances, actions.
"She was asking for it, just look what she was wearing!"
I have done a lot of
I have done a lot of volunteer work for my local domestic violence and sexual assault awareness organization. It's not a jump. For the sake of your children and those who will be around them, please educate yourself, and then them.
If the people who are
If the people who are educated and affected by said topic agree on something about that topic and you, not knowing anything about the topic don't see a connection, is it more logical to assume that we are all wrong or that you are so undereducated about this you can't possibly have an valid opinion?
Also reminds me of a person claiming that they know something isn't racist because they don't feel offended by it.
LadyFace, thank you for
LadyFace, thank you for pointing out that my nipples are indeed covered (not sure why some people decided this involved lack of clothing or inappropriate behavior on SS's part.) This kid is regularly exposed to adult TV shows, R rated movies, and I assume porn since neither parent controls his nearly 24/7 internet access! Makes it hard to see how the outline of a nipple could cause a serious problem for him.
It seems to me that another person's nipple status should be a concern only for nursing infants. It is a concern for DH I think because he has no idea how to talk to his kid about sex or even general social appropriateness and hopes to never have to. Brilliant considering he was a very young parent himself!
"I thought for sure most
"I thought for sure most woman would not want their skids staring at their boobs"
Has never happened to my knowledge and I am one sensitive woman when it comes to people staring.
"Could you imagine if a man was walking around with a boner in short shorts and her daughter saw that every time she was there?"
I could imagine that. Not sure what that has to do with bras.
"Just chiming in on #4: every
"Just chiming in on #4: every day women are asked to do all sorts of things for the sake of men. The argument you're making is the same kind (if not degree) as "women should do XYZ so as not to provoke a man into raping her"--how about we just teach men not to rape? Why aren't we teaching boys and men that no matter what women wear, men are responsible for their own sexuality?"
YES!!! ^^^ THIS!
"he has a conversation with his son, who could use a few lessons about what is natural (nipples) and how to handle one's own "horniness"?"
This hasn't happened and you would think it needs to regardless of me.
Also, just to be clear, there is no issue with SS staring or being weird like that. Yes, its DH who is uncomfortable. He's fine with me wearing that around the UPS man and his the rest of his family so it seems like an issue of him avoiding doing real parenting and having a talk with his son. Like as though me wearing a bra will shield him from breasts for life!
Really enjoying trying on the "It doesn't bother me, its fine!" thing. Very liberating. Thanks!
1) I will try to talk to DH
1) I will try to talk to DH once more before I deal with it myself. It doesn't seem like an unreasonable request at all the more I think about it. We live in a big house. They each have their own rooms. Its been beautiful outside every single time they've been here this summer/fall. They don't have to be in there. He cannot put limits on them because he sees parenting these kids as a popularity contest.
2) He will never get tired of hearing them complain. I got tired of it a few years ago. I am already doing a whole lot of what you suggest in terms of planning around the skids. Really sucks to have them control so much of my life either way I guess. I will be more direct with the kids when there is a problem. Lately I've said almost nothing (besides the office thing) and maybe that needs to change. I feel a bit stuck because I don't want to just be the nasty woman who makes demands and I don't want to hang out with them either.
3) Got it.
4)My ta-tas aren't "flying free" lmao. What lines am I fuzzing exactly? I don't lean against him or make suggestive comments or whatever! I just wear the same shirt I'd wear to get the mail or hang out with friends. Not that it should matter but there is absolutely nothing sexy about what I'm wearing. Sometimes I go braless in public :jawdrop: so its hard to see the reason in changing into less comfortable clothes.
You take some, you leave some. Thank you!
...responding below about #4
I haven't even read past the
I haven't even read past the first part. Yes, you fool, you out your foot down! Tell them to stay the hell out if your office! Oh, and put a locking knob on the door so they can't get in there to poke around! Really, don't be stupid when it comes to your finances. It's not their or their mothers business!
1) You have two choices.
1) You have two choices. Put a lock on the office door. End of problem. Or ..... have fun! }:) Photo shop some cool stuff and leave it where they will find it. A bill of sale for a custom ordered Mercedes Benz. Tickets for a luxury cruise. Information on expensive vacation homes for sale in very exclusive communities. Pre-paid tuition to Harvard for your baby. A Morgan Stanley statement for your $multi million investment account. Make sure there is a nice pricey dollar figure clearly stated on each of your creations. Ha!! BM will blow her top and you can sweetly smile and say "I have no idea what you are talking about. I have not ordered a Mercedes."
2) Buy a small fridge from Sam's Club and put your specific food in it and lock it. End of issue. Cheap fix. Or, put the Skids food in it. All of the crappy sugary junk food they want. They will never go near the big fridge with the organic food in it ever again. When they grow up you can turn the little fridge into a beverage fridge. That is what we do. We keep a small fridge in our kitchen for chilled beverages so we our main fridge has space for fresh foods.
3) Whatever you decide to do, do not starve yourself just to avoid the Skids at meal time. Cook what you want. You are pregnant. There is nothing wrong with tailoring your diet for the health of yourself and the baby. If steak is what you want, cook it. I am a T-1 diabetic and have been since I was a kid. Every meal we eat at home there are elements that are specifically for me. I eat low CHO. My bride does not. So, when we make a meal, say a nice robust meat and vegetable sauce, my bride will eat it on pasta, I eat it on spiral cut zucchini. Not a different concept from your Skid's eating leftover Chinese and you eating a steak. Eat you steak and enjoy it. No need to hole up in your room while they have the run of the house.
4) :jawdrop: Your DH is way off base on this one IMHO. You are fully clothed. What you are wearing or not wearing under your PJs is irrelevant. Women can often have very visible nipples under their clothes. Men can often have very visible erections. Next time DH comments on your nipples and wearing a bra under your PJs tell him sure. You will put a bra on under your PJs when he duct tapes his pecker to his leg just in case he gets an erection. We don't want the little darlings seeing daddy with a boner in his PJs now do we? Just wow!!! My dad is a big proponent of getting into comfy clothing when he is in the house. He will change from clothes to what he calls Flop Togs a couple of times a day when he is in from work or being out and about. If he has to go out again in a few hours, he changes back into his clothes. I was not a big change into comfy clothes guy but my DW and the SKid adopted my dads tradition so eventually so did I. After the arriving home from the work day or on weekends it was flop tog time. Shorts and a T-shirt or lounge pants and a warm long sleeve pull over, etc.... Bras or underwear was never discussed or an issue. What we each wore under our flop togs was personal choice. Why should my bride have to bind the boobs if SS and I were free balling it under the PJ pants? If she was cold she put on a warm robe. Non issue IMHO.
"Next time DH comments on
"Next time DH comments on your nipples and wearing a bra under your PJs tell him sure. You will put a bra on under your PJs when he duct tapes his pecker to his leg just in case he gets an erection."
No time to respond in full atm but just had to say LOL. Thank you!
Rags, thank you. Makes sense.
Rags, thank you. Makes sense. I'm also from a family that changes into comfy clothes at home and none of the girls wore bras underneath. They are uncomfortable as hell and I feel shamed into doing it in public as is. Pathetic but the truth. Still laughing picturing DH with some duct tape!
I'm with Rags here!
I'm with Rags here! Absolutely have fun with the diversion tactics - print out those lists of luxury items - include a world trip overseas - include a visit to Disney Land..hell I would have a ball!! Karma would be when BM comes back screeching blue murder..and how awesome for you to then let your SO know they shouldn't even be in there in the first place!!
Also agree with his other comments - ESPECIALLY #4. No way, no hw would I cover up for any one if i'm in my house and wanna be comfortable. Stuff that! I have 3 Sons ranging from ages 31 - 15 years old. They have respect and manners and know how to be civil in front of ladies - maybe this is a lesson his Son needs to learn.
Hi there.... Your OH should
Hi there....
Your OH should be respectful of your wishes within the home too, its not just about him and his kids...
1) LOCK LOCK LOCK LOCK LOCK LOCK LOCK
2) I have in the past, and still do have food that is off limits to the SKids, and they are told. If they break the rule, they get told off....we dont shop for the skids, they eat what we have in the home, I dont do specifics...if the SS's domnt like it, at 19 and 17 they can cook for themselves in THEIR home...SD7 is ok, and eats whatever is put infront of her really, unless BM has fed her first and SD7 lies about it
3) I get this, but its one of those.....however I find when they ask I just say "no"
4) Im afraid im with your OH here....its uncomfortable I know, Im pregnant myself, but I wont walk around my home without a bra on, pregnant or otherwise
Stressedstep, I'm on the lock
Stressedstep, I'm on the lock thing and I'm gonna speak up more to the kids directly about the food. I was more curious about wether I should need to wear special clothes for SS when he's around or if I should just be able to wear what I wear every other day. I didn't mean to make this about wether I, or any woman, should wear a bra.
Ref #4; My reasons are mine,
Ref #4; My reasons are mine, but I have older SSs...19 and 17....and I would prefer to stay well tucked away! lol When I have my PJs on, I always wear my gown if they are around, although OH has never had problem, and to him if Im wearing a top, then Im covered.....Its more me that prefers to be "suppoprted"!!
Stepaside, yes to a lock if
Stepaside, yes to a lock if necessary. Dh has previously accused me of "controlling everything they eat" by doing the food shopping! Otherwise your second suggestion would make perfect sense. I feel really stuck because he doesn't want me to buy food for them but he refuses to do it himself. A list would not get him out to the store, he would see it as trying to control. Crazy, I know.
I wasn't really asking for nutrition advice. I'm on a hormonal roller coaster with severe nausea so I try to eat what I can, when I can and with as much variety as I can. I don't make it a point to eat steak when they are here and BM frequently changes the schedule without warning so its incredibly hard to plan around them. I do love the idea of going out to eat when they are here but then I have to deal with DH. He will be jealous but its not like he has ever included me in his cooking when the kids are here (I mention this only because I cooked EVERY meal for him and skids for years).
I didn't make the division so go easy on the judgement please. I tried for a very long time to treat these kids like my special niece and nephew. I did more for them than their own mother could be bothered with. The only credit I ever got was blame when something went wrong. I had to withdraw to protect my sanity. I don't wear a robe around people other than those in my family so I'm not sure this applies. I sometimes go out in public with no bra.
The food thing!!! Ever since
The food thing!!! Ever since I found this website I keep reading about the food thing - it's not just me!!! I pay for groceries too and it pisses me off that all I get are complaints. DH says he is "just being a teenager" - f that. I hide food too. Makes me even more upset I have to do that.
Nipple thing - I am so totally creeped out that my SS might see my breasts (D cup) I wear a sports bra most of the time. Despise the thought of him looking at any part of me. I wear bras, layers, robes, baggy clothes. I hate it but find it worth it as it's another way of showing SS & DH that I find SS looking at any part of me and nauseating.
Glad its not just me who has
Glad its not just me who has a food issue. Why do some people think being a teenager means disregarding everyone but yourself?
"I hate it but find it worth it as it's another way of showing SS & DH that I find SS looking at any part of me and nauseating."
Lol, makes sense. SS has yet to look at me funny so I might feel similarly if it happens.
Anti SKid armour.
Anti SKid armour. :jawdrop: ROFLMAO!!!!
My bride is the DD +/- hottie and we don't much worry about it in our home. Even when the Skid was at home. She gets tons of attention in public and a bra will not make much difference in that either way. However, she never leaves the house without a bra. Her choice. I am fine with her choice either way.
Ripley, very helpful post! A
Ripley, very helpful post! A few things...
I really should have mentioned this in the original post but I didn't want to give too much detail. I can't do the shopping for skids because DH once freaked out at me that I was controlling everything they ate! As though its my secret fantasy to shop for his kids. Now I feel stuck because he won't shop and they need to eat so they eat my food. Love the crock pot thing. These skids can't reliably pour their own drink so making lunch for themselves is out. I'm thinking of bring up the idea of skids having to ask for whatever they eat when we talk about the office. I love the sound of it!
I used to be more than pleasant and then for a while just pleasant but the skids are so overtly rude/cold/nasty it feels impossible now to be anything more than basically polite. They say mean things about me in front of me, consistently mention how much better their mother is at whatever I'm doing, and lie to me and about me. I literally want to curl up and hide when they are here.
You have no idea how much
You have no idea how much time I spend trying to figure out if its best for the baby to live with this crazy crap or to live with me and only me (I have no other family). I'm petrified the skids will treat me this way in front of my child. I won't allow it to continue when its affecting someone more important than myself.
I agree with all the others
I agree with all the others on 1-3.
On #4, I would suggest compromising. My DS is a few years older than SD. She would come to our place VERY developed and VERY noticeable without a bra on. I mentioned it to DH. I asked him to mention it to BM. Finally, after no action from EITHER bio, I took her to buy training bras myself. (Yes, I am sure BM felt I overstepped) It wasn't anything to do with "rape culture" or whatnot. I just didn't want my hormonal son to even THINK of SD in a sexual manner.
On the other hand, my DH bought me a very plush, very big, very soft robe for X-mas so I would have something to throw over my pjs when skids were around. I guess some of my pjs were shorter than I realized. LOL I didn't have a problem with it because I had asked the same consideration and it was a similar situation.
misStep, you raise a good
misStep, you raise a good point. The give-and-take of your personal point 4.
If I were the OP, and I had talked to my DH about the skids and them getting into our personal financial/legal stuff, and talked to him about food/cooking for skids, and he worked with me to find a solution so that skids didn't have access to information that was none of their business AND so that skids had food to eat and didn't take mine....
THEN I would not find it difficult at all to change how I dress a few days per month to make him more comfortable. I'd be happy to do something relatively small just to please him, after all, it's no big deal for him to grocery shop for his kids, to make sure his kids stay out of my food, and to keep the office door locked.
Oh wait, he's fine with me being uncomfortable. Let's check on my motivation to make him comfortable...
Nope. Nothing.
Moeilijk, yes, that too.
Moeilijk, yes, that too. There is a definite lack of motivation to go out of my way at all for the skids for obvious reasons.
Umm...I'm sorry that you
Umm...I'm sorry that you can't trust your own son. It makes me sad that people think so little of young men. Like they are just walking penises. I hope no one told your SD that she needed to cover evidence of actually having boobs for him. Do you know what rape culture is? I'm not asking to be smart, it just seems that many people who claim something is not rape culture also have no idea what is rape culture.
1, lock your office, and DH
1, lock your office, and DH needs to realize that there are two of you there, he may be fine with that but you are not, so a compromise needs to be made. I don't let my bios rummage around my financial papers, it's none of their buisness, them or the skids.
2, Keep your foods in your room. They will always feel like they have the right to go and get what ever they want whenever they want it especially if DH isn't stepping up.
3, Hell no don't sneak around. If you want a steak, eat a steak. What ever you want to eat it's your house too. If they ask why can't they have some tell them because your dad hasn't made your dinner yet. If you're hungry go tell him he really needs to start dinner soon. And if they are trying to make you feel bad, take your steak to your room and eat it and enjoy it.
4, No...pj's are the norm for me too, and I will wear them if I want to. You shouldn't have to change just because you have nipples. Dogs have nipples too, does he go to people walking their dogs infront of your house and ask them to cover their dogs nipples? Nope.
1) I specifically mentioned
1) I specifically mentioned to him that I wouldn't allow my own kid to do the same. Will update below about how it went down.
2) Contemplating it.
3) Can't believe I've been missing out on rib-eye in bed all these years! Its fabulous!
4) I foster pregnant cats who then go on the give birth and nurse kittens. I'm also planning on nursing my own baby so he is going to have to get over the nipple thing somewhat. When did nipples become so dirty?!
A bit off topic ........ Oh,
A bit off topic ........
Oh, they are not dirty. But I have to say that personally I am a fan!
However, professionally I wish they did not exist.
We did a lot of travel in Africa when I was a kid and in my teens and 20s. That was long enough ago that bare chested women was the norm in many locations. It was no big deal
We also go to Europe beach locations fairly regularly where topless sunbathing for women is fairly common. Also a non issue.
Interestingly in mundane public situations I find myself far more cognizant of nipples just because I do not want them to cause an issue. In a professional environment I remain sensitive to not causing an HR issue and this is one issue that I am sensitive to as a Sr. executive. I deal with far too many stupid sensitivities in my workforce and I am hyper sensitized to some situations. Erect nipples is one of them when I am in a public or work situation. On a few occasions over my career I have had to deal with an HR issue related to erect nipples. Most due to women complaining of leering men but also men complaining about feeling uncomfortable about women not wearing padded bras that eliminate the issue. There is nothing more ridiculous than having to have a disciplinary intervention with a man accused of staring at a woman’s nipples in the office or having to counsel a woman to adapt her wardrobe due to the discomfort her nice breasts and nipples are causing some oversensitive guy or woman in the office. Some of my employees have suggested that the A/C is kept too cold and the temp should be made warmer to eliminate the problem. No way. I am extremely hot natured and I refuse to sweat in the office all day. When I am out on the plant, no problem. I am happy to sweat my ass off. So, I have bought company logo zip up hoodies for the entire department to help mitigate this issue.
This type of thing sadly has been far from rare in my management career.
Early in my management career a company I worked for at the time reprimanded a group of young new hire engineers (men) for a break time incident. I was in the break room at the time getting a cup of coffee. A group of 4 young newly hired engineers were in the break room having a coffee and bantering at a break table at the front of the room that was open to the bldg lobby. A very attractive young woman walked out of one office area across the break area to some stairs then walked up the stairs. She was very shapely, was wearing sheer white pants and thong underwear. Everything was very visible. The young guys quit talking when the young lady walked in and remained silent as she crossed the room and ascended the open stair way. When she disappeared they returned to their conversation. No comments were made about the young woman. Just a few smiles. In the back corner of the break room was a middle aged woman who was reading on her break. She filed a complaint with HR about the young engineers. Since I was present in the break room at the time I was on the investigation team. IMHO it was a non issue. Nothing was said at all, no one high fived or in any way behaved inappropriately. If anything the young lady from finance was dressed inappropriately. Even though my stance was that it was a non issue the HR director chose to place a letter of reprimand in the files of each of the young engineers. Rather than accept the reprimand they all resigned and took higher paying jobs with a couple of direct competitors. I actually recommended that they leave rather than try to navigate their careers in house with a sexual harassment/hostile work environment LOR in their files. When they asked me what I would do in that situation that is the advice I gave them.
Following that incident the company implemented the notorious 2 second rule. "When someone enters an employee’s field of vision the employee can only glance at the newly arriving individual for 2 seconds before averting their glance." I had a major issue with that bullshit.
As a manager in full support of the new 2 second rule on my own initiative and at my own out of pocket cost I purchased my entire department stop watches complete with neck lanyards. For weeks after the new 2 second rule went into effect my department cube farm was ringing with stop watch clicks whenever someone would enter our area.
One day my VP and HR director were doing their visits and came to my department together. Click, click, click, click, click, click........... My VP started laughing our loud. The HR director got a huge scowel on her face. A few days later I got a call from the VP's admin that the VP wanted to take me to lunch. We covered all kinds of personal and business topics. As he was paying the lunch tab he lauged again and said "Rags, I loved the stop watches but get rid of them. The HR director feels that you are directly targeting her with the stop watches." When I got back to the office from lunch I collected all of the stop watches. The clicks did not stop. My smart assed staff would click their ink pens whenever someone entered our area. The HR director gave up on the issue after a few transits through my team area to a cacophony of pens clicking.
lol, how ridiculous! As
lol, how ridiculous! As someone who works primarily with kids and animals, I'm stunned that professional adults would behave like that. Love how the stopwatches backfired.
"Dogs have nipples too, does
"Dogs have nipples too, does he go to people walking their dogs infront of your house and ask them to cover their dogs nipples?"
Hahahaha! Does he stand out there, with his homemade dog-bras, trying to custom-fit each doggy while on its walk? What does he do about cats? Does he at least work from home, where he can keep an eye on any nipples that might come by?
lmfao picturing DH chasing
lmfao picturing DH chasing down local dog walkers and adjusting straps on our nipples-in-your-face-every-time-I-roll-over female Fila. Its killing me!
btw, even the dog's nipples freak him out a bit now that I think of it. At least he gets that its HIS job to get over that one, no doggie-bras necessary.
Your husband is not going to
Your husband is not going to be bothered with his kids in the office or eating food from the fridge because they are his kids. Would you lock your own child out of the office and out of the fridge? What I do is tag food that is mine in the fridge that they are not allowed to eat, or if it is food for my son's lunch. I will buy a watermelon or 4 lbs of grapes and my oldest SS will sit and eat it all in one sitting. When he does that he has to go out and buy whatever it is he ate and replace it.
Regarding the bra thing...I live in a house with 4 males and my husband is the same way. He doesn't like me to be braless in certain shirts. If he says something I will go put on a bra, not to be submissive, but if he notices something and thinks it is too risqué (or whatever) I will tend to take his word for it. He is not out to ruin my life or anything. If your SS is 14 you may want to either wear a bra or a shirt with more coverage, it is a weird age. I remember my oldest SS saw me topless (in my pool) when he was about 16 or so :shudders:.
"Would you lock your own
"Would you lock your own child out of the office and out of the fridge? "
No but I would have firm rules about not being in the office at all and not eating whatever, whenever you felt like. He does neither. If only the skids bothered to read labels. As I mentioned earlier, SS once drank a whole container of OJ in one sitting. The consequence? Dad shook his head. Seriously, thats how it was addressed! I would love to make him go replace it but we are miles from that.
To get more coverage than an oversized t-shirt, I'd have to wear a burka.
When did bras transition from
When did bras transition from being boob support to nipple concealment garments?
"When did bras transition
"When did bras transition from being boob support to nipple concealment garments?"
THANK YOU! I too was under the mistaken impression that bras were for the convince of the wearer, not the men in the vicinity.
UPDATE! So I grew some big
UPDATE!
So I grew some big balls of courage last night. Tired again to tell DH I wasn't comfortable with skids in the office and to please ask them not to hang out in there without reason. I said that I understood that it didn't bother him but that that wasn't the issue. I explained that those are my personal things and I don't wish the BM to know about any of it. I mentioned that our child also won't be allowed in the office to just hang out and look through our files.
He was silent, just kept doing what he was doing and then mumbled "Ok" at the end. I said "Thank you! Glad we could agree!" but what I'm thinking is "there is no f'in way he'll follow through. He is pretending to go along with this to shut me up atm."
Guess I'll have to wait and see. Will certainly update at the next visit.
Thank you everyone who has contributed, even if I disagreed with you. Its great to hear all sides.
The lock will be a last
The lock will be a last resort for many of the reasons you mentioned. Yes, DH is the problem but as they get older, its easier to shift some of that blame to them. You can only blame mommy and daddy for your own actions for so long. Maybe I'm doing that too soon.
I'm so sorry you went through all of that with your SDs! I think being a step can lead to its own kind of PTSD in those situations and it sounds like you made it out ok. You give me hope that DH might see the light after our child comes. I do get the sense that his parenting is way skewed because of the drama with BM.
My life really did revolve around the skids for a long time. I tried harder than I have with anyone else (other than maybe DH himself). There is a complete imbalance of control in my home and I'd like to get things back to a health place for my baby. I'm working on it!
Very glad you told me that my post sounded nasty! I was trying to not be too wordy and I think I left out too many important details. I don't feel like I'm retaliating so much as trying to live with the same set of standards he has set for himself and skids. For too long I was the martyr, always perfectly polite, considerate and giving while getting not even a thank you. It brought me to my knees emotionally and I'm trying to pick myself up without hurting others. THANK YOU!
Exactly, it will come as a
Exactly, it will come as a shock. Knowing that scares me but I'm getting over it.
Am I living your life?? DH also loves to tell me the nasty things skids say behind my back. He even tells me what BM says as though she may have a point! Its odd because she has lots of nasty things to say about him but those are obviously delusional rage-fueled shog dit. Suddenly, when I'm the topic, she's sane and logical. GRRRR! I am trying to commit your response to memory. He's not stupid enough to repeat what I say exactly but I think just the thought will give a bit of understanding. He tells me these things to guilt me into doing stuff for skids like I'm trying to win the prize of their approval. I haven't been giving in though. I hope to be where you are someday.
Also having very similar feelings of anxiety about visits. I don't sleep 2-3 days before or 2-3 days after they're here so thats about half the time. I plan how to respond in an appropriate way to the awkward situations I know are coming but that all goes right out the window the moment my heart speeds up. I end up allowing them to walk all over me because I'm afraid of being harsh. Trying to grow a thicker skin feels like trying to get taller. Glad your DH sees through some of it. Unfortunately, mine does not. Could things still change? They are 12 and 14.
I thought of something after
I thought of something after reading all the replies....
I personally prefer to wear a bra, and when guests (including my mom!), family friends or otherwise including SSs are there, I wear a bra or have my gown on...I dont with my BD7....but thats just me......but I did think of something else.....
what happens when you go swimming!!?? No bra under that costume....and we all know how cold the swimming pools are when you first get in them or out....so will your OH stop you going swimming too!??
What about holidays by the beach...costumes, bikinis etc? Gust of cool breeze....what is he expecting you to do then!?
I concede a little here, I think a chat with your OH of WHY he finds it awkward may be in need, and if his sons starts showing signs of horny behaviour then its up to OH to have THAT chat with him.........
Yes, exactly. A chat will be
Yes, exactly. A chat will be in order if this gets mentioned again. And I'm certain it will when its time to nurse. I plan to come back here and reread all of this to give me strength and remind me that I'm not completely looney...yet.
I guess I'm in the minority,
I guess I'm in the minority, but I think if someone's attire is too revealing and inappropriate, and they were a member of my household, I'd ask them to change. If I had an SD with an otherwise perfectly appropriate bathing suit that was too tight around the crotch and showed an obvious camel toe. If my DH had a pair of otherwise comfy sweatpants that were too tight around his crotch. If SS liked to go around in an old pair of football pants that showed off his package. And yes, if SM liked to walk around bra-less and thereby showed her nipples.
It's not a man/woman thing with me. It's a common decency thing. Do unavoidable accidents happen sometimes? Yeah. But that's a lot different than "I don't care if everyone in this house can see my nipples and is uncomfortable with it, I'm going to wear what I want!"
I'd be pissed if my DH liked to go around in a pair of boxers that revealed his package, and if I respectfully asked him to change said, "It's my house, I'm comfortable, I don't care who I'm making uncomfortable, I'm doing it."
Seems a bit petty, especially
Seems a bit petty, especially as an adult, to ask someone to change instead of not staring. When I'm not with fetus I'm 105 lbs and you're calling a unisex medium t-shirt revealing?! If your DH suddenly starts wearing revealing clothes and you want to discuss it, ok, I kinda get it. I've been wearing these exactly clothes the entire time we've known each other. The only thing that has changed is that there is a person HE is responsible for present who has the potential to be weird about it because he hasn't taught him anything about sex, women, relationships, basic human manners, etc. Looking at the bigger picture, it seems more like him being lazy and uncomfortable with his son than uncomfortable with me.
Well, to counter your
Well, to counter your example, I wouldn't have an issue with my DH wearing boxers that revealed his package because I'm in a sexual relationship with my husband. So the fact that your DH doesn't mind is neither here nor there.
But if we had my 10 year old niece over, I'd be like, "Cover up, hon."
I mentioned in some other
I mentioned in some other replies in this topic that he finds nothing wrong with me wearing those clothes around his friends, other family members, the UPS man, the neighbor's teenage boys, etc. It is ONLY around the person he has responsibility for. Weird hu?
Also, I don't understand what
Also, I don't understand what your weight has to do with it. If you're showing your nipples, you're showing your nipples. If it's ok to show them, it's ok to show them.
Talking about your weight and cup size seems to imply you think It is ok for you, but it would somehow be wrong for a 180 pound woman with D cups to reveal her nipples.
No, you misunderstood. A few
No, you misunderstood. A few people have implied that my shirt must have been skimpy. I was simply stressing that I was full covered and not popping out of anything. It would absolutely not be wrong for a larger person to go braless!
"I'd be pissed if my DH liked
"I'd be pissed if my DH liked to go around in a pair of boxers that revealed his package, and if I respectfully asked him to change said, "It's my house, I'm comfortable, I don't care who I'm making uncomfortable, I'm doing it."
I'd be pissed if my DH walked around in his boxers, too. The OP isn't walking around in her underwear, though. Her DH needs to get his brain out of the gutter and start respecting his DW and teaching his son about respecting women.
The camel toe example is NOT the same. Sorry, but that is waaaaaay reaching. Nipples are on everyone, men go SHIRTLESS and show their nipples off, women's nipples have a functional purpose. What is the big deal? I'll tell you: society and media have sexualized the female form to the point that we are even having this discussion. It's ridiculous and that is part of rape culture.
Rape is mainly about control, and it's also about a lack of control. Maybe you ladies don't read the news, but kids fucking or finger banging or otherwise molesting drunk girls who are too incapicatated to defend themselves is rape/sexual assault--there's a great example. All of that starts with boys/men thinking they have rights to women's bodies--either to make statements about ("she was asking for it--her nipples were poking thru, must mean she's horny"), or have access to women's bodies.
Things are changing, though, so boys and men best learn how it REALLY is and start being advocates for women and against this rape culture that serves society in no positive way.
From ThinkProgress about
From ThinkProgress about "what we can learn from the largest international study on rape"...
"Men rape because they have been taught that they have a right to claim women’s bodies. One of the fundamental concepts at the heart of “rape culture” is the idea that rape is inevitable, men can’t help themselves, and women must therefore work to protect themselves against it. Within the context of rape culture, the idea that men are entitled to sexual experiences is deeply entrenched. The UN researchers found that this attitude is pervasive among the rapists they surveyed. Among the men who acknowledged they had sexually assaulted someone else, more than 70 percent of them said they did it because of “sexual entitlement.” Forty percent said they were angry or wanted to punish the woman. About half of the men said they did not feel guilty."
This is science and is not a matter of opinion. You have a right to your opinion and you have a right to be wrong. Let me break it down...
Thinking men should control what undergarments women wear is giving men claim over women's bodies which is the cause of rape.
Saying or thinking "boys will be boys" as though they are not responsible for their own gestures, glances and speech and giving that responsibility to girls is "one of the fundamental concepts at the heart of rape culture."
The idea that boys/men are entitled to stare at my body based on the clothes I wear is part of rape culture.
Rapists frequently cite wanting to punish women for their "lewd" ways as justification for rape. Stop teaching boys that women having a physical body is lewd and you could fix that.
The above points of view are more commonly held by rapists than non-rapists. There is a clearly connection.
"“Interventions must focus on childhood and adolescence, and address culturally rooted male gender socialization..."
So, it should be perfectly ok
So, it should be perfectly ok for women to go around naked then, right? And everyone who stares or has a problem with it is just part of rape culture.
That's the logical endpoint of this argument.
Except we would probably all agree that that's silly. Societal conventions dictate women and men cover certain specific body parts in a certain way. Everyone would point, stare, and think its inappropriate if a man went grocery shopping in a Speedo. That has nothing to do with rape culture, but everything to do with a typical human reaction to someone who defies society's norms.
Everyone has a perfect right to the sanctity of their body. Every one has a perfect right to wear whatever they want. Nobody has a perfect right though, to wear whatever they want and not get a comment on it, or to look. People also have a right to speak and look.
Apparently SM is showing her nipples off to everyone, to include her SS, and SS is in the wrong for looking at them? I don't think so.
"So it should be perfectly
"So it should be perfectly okay for women to go around naked, right?"
So long as it's not in violation of local laws or ordinances, yes. In fact, I live near a major US city where it is acceptable for people of all genders to doff clothing at certain events and festivals. Until recently, there was an area of town where people were hanging out nude. Literally hanging out.
My preference would be to stay clothed, but that's exactly what the point is. Nobody else has a right to tell me what to wear or how to wear it. My body, my choice. See how that works?
I HATE seeing plumber's
I HATE seeing plumber's cracks on older men at Walmart. Its not what one would call accepted. That doesn't give me the right to blame these men for any of my actions, thoughts, feelings nor does it give me permission to stare, point, comment, etc. Its not really my business and I can look away like a grownup. See?
"Apparently SM is showing her nipples off to everyone, to include her SS, and SS is in the wrong for looking at them?"
As I said to Tommar, I'll be ignoring any future post in which you imply I'm baring my chest to an underage boy. My nipples are just as covered as his.
I don't get what you're
I don't get what you're saying...women showing their nipples off is ok because nipples have a functional purpose? So does a penis. So does a vagina. Is it ok to show everyone those too? And if they're uncomfortable with it, tell them to get over it, because making someone wear clothes to cover themselves is sexual oppression?
I'm going to be blunt: I have
I'm going to be blunt: I have large breasts and nipples that don't allow themselves to be "hidden" in most attire. No, I don't think I should have to purchase overly padded bras because other people haven't been taught manners and decency when it comes to viewing or observing other people. The best, most supportive sports bras I have found have no padding, therefore, my nipples come to the gym with me. I am not aroused, I am not looking for attention, I am a woman minding my own business, wearing clothing that covers all of my parts in a manner that is respectful of local laws and ordinances, so how is that wrong? The only thing wrong is for people to be shaming women over their attire because they can't get their own mind out of the gutter. It's part of rape culture. You can deny all you want, but I suggest you start teaching your boys about it, because I sure as hell am teaching my daughters and SD to be feminists who won't allow others to shame them or men to perpetrate crimes against their bodies.
No, thats different because
No, thats different because women are responsible for their own thoughts.
DeeDee, if you're telling
DeeDee, if you're telling someone to wear clothes because YOU are uncomfortable with his/her body, then yes, you are oppressing them. It's really not fair, is it, that how YOU feel about someone else's body determines what that person wears?
And if how someone else dresses creates such intense feelings of sexual arousal that you create laws to prevent that person from dressing in that way.... then that is sexual oppression.
Usually, people are responsible for their own feelings and actions. Except when it comes to women's bodies.
I was considering moving on
I was considering moving on but this child deserve me trying again. When it starts negatively impacting the baby, I'll have to go. Its a very difficult thing to consider since he is my only family. I do feel like I'm headed for the looney bin if things don't get better.
Like your situation, if DH thought I might leave he might change. He just thinks I'll never go. Not true.
"Bras are not nipple
"Bras are not nipple hiders."
Seriously. If one person could show me evidence that bras were made for this purpose and that concealing nipples has a positive impact on society, I'll glad run and put one on. Until such time, I consider bras one of the most uncomfortable inventions ever produced and won't put myself through that to spare another person from being able to tell that I, like the rest of the human race and most mammals, have nipples.
I could have written your
I could have written your post. Anywho, it seems the general consensus is to buy a personal fridge for food. I'm pregnant too and I do eat things behind skids back sometimes but only because he won't buy the stuff for skids (I'm your opposite with eating so if I want a Big Mac, he won't buy his kids McDonalds so I won't eat in front of them, I'll eat behind their back sometimes). I don't know that I'd be able to cook in front of them though and eat right in front of them. I might go to the room.
Lastly, SO did ask me to wear a bra and no booty shorts around SS14 and I obliged because I did begin to notice that SS14 is super affectionate and it didn't feel right for this big huge boy to try to be cuddly on my boobs with no bra on. Plus it's not like I raised them and I did notice that he would look at me and treat me in a not so stepsonly manner. So I either wear a bra, or a robe over my pjs. It doesn't really bother me. I miss living alone, but it's a compromise I made that really helps SO feel better and doesn't cause me too many issues.
I would do all of the above
I would do all of the above mentioned: locked office and locking up your personal foods away from the kids. I wouldn't eat in front of them persay but if you want steak then cook it and go eat it off to the side. Don't be secretive about it, but I would eat the same time they are eating so that if they do complain about not getting steak (while stuffing their little mouths with dads provisions) then it will be the perfect opportunity for them to take it up with their dad.
I would also use the boob issues to justify the locked office issue. I would say to tell your DH that since he does have a problem with your nips showing and you have a problem with skids being in the office then you both will agree to do each other a favor. You get to lock the door and you wil double up shirts or wear a bra EOW just for DH to be happy. Compromise but i would say that you would be getting the better end of the deal with the locked office if you throw the fridge in their thus also solving problem 2 or eating in your office thus solving problem 3