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2 months of no SD

TrueNorth77's picture

In the last installment of SD14 is PAS'd out, she had made some vague statements to her counselor about wanting to move to Alaska while Crazy was on vacation, so DH had to go pick her up and take her for a night. That was a few weeks ago and she hasn't been here since, but of course there have still been boatloads of drama. 

SS told us that Crazy was sick of SD being there FT- she said it was "expensive" to have SD there FT, and SD was difficult. Yes, when you let SD run the show, she IS difficult. SS said Crazy had text him at least 12 times telling him to tell DH to reach out to SD. And then once to say "Remind your dad that I'm going to file for child support". She was trying to get DH to somehow convince SD to come back here, which wasn't going to happen. She also snapchatted SS all night the other night about how terrible DH is. FFS. Enought with the PAS, and Keep SS out of this!

Last week was a skid week and we got a text from SS last Sat saying SD was coming with him to our house because Crazy and SD got in a fight, so Crazy was forcing SD to come here. I felt absolutely sick. Last week was spring break and I WFH. I was going to be home with SD all week alone??? NO. I told DH this was an unreasonable ask, and he agreed. He offered to take off work, but that would use all of his vacay and he would not be able to come on our vacay that we have booked for Sept. I didn't want that. We didn't know what to do. We contacted SD's counselor to ask for ideas on how to handle SD if she pulled the suicide card. DH and I agreed we would NOT be allowing SD to use suicide as a manipulation tool- enough is enough. We have taken her seriously, but it is quite obvious she is not suicidal and is now using it as a tool (her own counselors words). SD text DH saying she would be coming because her mom was making her and her mom didn't want her there either, but that she would be staying in her room the whole time, she wouldn't eat our food or talk to us. He said that's not how this works, she was part of the family. She said he was not her father anymore, she would do what she wanted, she would not listen to him or follow rules. He's like you absolutely will listen and follow rules- you do not call the shots. She's like, "what will you do, take my phone? I don't care, and I will change the passcode". Ha! You think we would just take your phone? Try your phone, your books, your door, your clothes....Honey, you are playing checkers and we are playing chess. If she thinks for ONE SECOND DH or I would let a kid run the show in our house she has another thing coming. She proceeded to swear at him and called him a narcissist, and that she "knows for a fact" that he's been treating the time that she hasn't been there like a vacation. Which isn't even true at all, he didn't even go away with me and our friends for the wknd, he hasn't done almost anything fun at all. But even if he did thinks, what is he supposed to do, sit home and cry? A while later DH gets a text from SD saying "Mom was going to go somewhere this week but now she's not (lie-she just didn't want to tell us they got in a fight and her mom was forcing her here) so I'm not coming by you after all, bye". SS text and said that SD had threatened suicide if Crazy made her come here so she was letting SD stay there. UNreal. 

Crazy sent DH a message saying she was "Fine with SD staying with her 100% of the time, and she already filed papers". She called DH a "deadbeat dad" and a narcissist (gee, I wonder where SD got that from?) and said that "from what she hears, he has been enjoying his free time without SD" (again, almost verbatim what SD said) and said he doesn't care about SD or anything about her. He sent an attachment showing the signs of Parental alienation, which is SD to a TEE. 

Later SD text DH asking for her passport (which is expired, but at our house). He told her as much and said he wasn't just going to help her get a new one when she talks to him and treats him like crap. She said she didn't care, her mom would help her, and he does everything for SS, why can't he do this one thing for her, all she ever did was try to be perfect so he would love her and blah blah...Why does he hate her? We think she applied for a foreign exchange student program and apparently she thinks she's doing it (and she thinks DH is signing off on it, even though we told her previously that her getting to do that depends on her behavior). She swore at DH some more, then text DH later saying "Please just leave mom alone. She never did anything to you, why can't you just take it out on me, but leave her alone, what did she do to you?". How can I be parentally alienated when Mom didn't even know I was going to ask the counselor to stay with her until the day of the meeting? Just give mom full custody of me, this is what I want, I don't want to be with you. And then she blocked him. Sigh.... Yes, poor mom. And SD, you have no idea how parental alienation works. This has been an 8 YEAR campaign, not just a days work. 

So now we assume we are just waiting to hear from the court. When we talked about this a few weeks ago, DH said he would not just give Crazy full custody without somewhat of a fight (he will not get a lawyer). Which I get. But also, I cannot imagine SD being here like this. DH holds hope that she could come and get back to her normal self, because we've seen that happen before. But we've also never seen her anywhere NEAR this bad. She has never screamed, swore, or acted how she is. She is like a feral animal. And the threatening suicide if she doesn't get her way? What are we supposed to do with that? You can't just have her committed somewhere, it doesn't work like that. There are VERY few places and they only take her if they deem she is in a crisis, but she always backs down from her claims in the moment, so she doesn't fit that. So then you just go back home with a manipulative child. Rinse, repeat. Sure there are places with waiting lists that you can pay out of your ass for where she could go FT. Or day programs that are not feasible transportation-wise. It is lose-lose. I say let her stay with her perfect mom where she is just sooo happy until they can't stand each other, which will be in 2years, tops. SS will be falling off of Child support as he graduates June 1st, and then he would most likely have to pay more for SD. He is currently paying for health ins too, so that's something. 

DH's sister saw Crazy and SD in the grocery store, just down an aisle for a second. Crazy told SS that DH's sister was "stalking them". Just like DH's other sister is "stalking" SD's tik tok. SD continues to repost tik toks about terrible dads, and then made a tik tok with her and Crazy saying "You'll never know if I win the lottery....oh wait I already have because I have the most supportive, loving mom in the world". Gag. 

Yesterday at Easter, it was nice to have DH's entire family back us (especially me) up about this. They don't think SD should be at our house at all right now. They know how insane her mom is (she has physically and verbally attacked ALL of them in public at different times), and they see those traits in SD. They told me they are so happy DH has me now and is out of the toxic relationship with her, and that I should distance myself from SD and this drama because she is brainwashed by her mom and it is toxid. And that if SD ever does have to come over, I should try to remove myself from the situation (although where would I even go? This is my home...) because they wouldn't trust what she would say and do. Still, they didn't blame me, or think anything was my fault whatsoever. In the shitshow that we are dealing with with SD, that was one tiny bright spot at least. 




advice.only2's picture

Your DH might just have to drop the rope and walk away at this point.  When Spawn was 16 going on 17, she went to her maternal grandmother’s (where Meth Mouth was holed up) for summer visitation and then never came back.  DH decided that letting her go and just be with the toxic was easier than fighting another year in court with his ex.  It might be easier for DH to do this, but if she does take him to court, he should present his side, but if the courts agree with Crazy (which they usually do), then he should just walk away.  SD14 is enjoying the high of the toxic bonding with Crazy over hating DH.  Right now, he is their common enemy, once he’s removed from the equation they will find other things or people to blame and toxic bond over that, but DH will always be a source for them to toxic bond over.  Spawn does this with Meth Mouth which is why I think she reaches out to DH from time to time, so it re-enforces their toxic bond of hating him.   

TrueNorth77's picture

Yes, it appears SD and Crazy are following the same PAS manual as Spawn and MM. They have a common enemy now, which is truly a bonding experience. 2 crazy little peas in a pod. 

I believe the same as you- While 1. I Don't want SD here, and 2. I Don't think this is salvageable in this climate, I do think DH would hate himself if he didn't at least try to keep her from being with Crazy FT, since we know this is not what is best for her. I also don't believe he has a fighting chance, even though we can show that alienation has been a concern for YEARS, and we put it in our CO. And filed for Contempt for it over the summer.  But SD is almost 15, what will they do, force her here? I doubt it. And then what, everyone is miserable?

However, I wonder if DH may have actually changed his tune after SD's latest barrage of texts. He hasn't said anything about not trying to get custody, but he definitely has lost his fight. When Crazy was going to make her come here, he straight up told me he didn't want her here. He said he felt really guilty for feeling that way, but he imagined it to be like what people who care for a parent with dementia must feel like when they finally put them in a care facility. Like the relief to not have to deal with something you can't help them with. I told him not to feel bad, all she does is yell at him and say extremely nasty things, who would want to be around that? 

Rags's picture

I am thinking that the goal, rather than custody, is to inflict pain on BM and clarity on SD.  File the contempt motions wholesale every time BM fails to surrender SD per the visitation schedule.  If only for the reason of baring BM ass and scaring the shit out of SD that mommy may be in trouble.

Lather, rinse, repeat. 

Keep the documentation fully updated, and keep rubbing SD's nose it mommy's manipulative bullshit. Then, when SD is 18 and BM is fully cut off from the Daddy money gravy train, keep that facts front and center that SD needs to go to her mother for money and support since Daddy has already given Mommy $xxx,xxx.xx.  With a highlighted copy of the CO and the full record of CS payment over how every many years daddy made those payments.

We used this to counter the opposite from the SpermClan. They claimed to have paid for new homes, new cars, vacations, quality school districts/boarding schools, nice clothes, etc.... with their CS payments to support SS.  It does not take much to show what a pittance $110/mo is in comparison to the $280K+/- the USDA estimates it costs to raise a child from birth to age 18.  It does not show significantly better when comparied to the food, transportation, housing, etc.... that we actually spent during the CO years raising SS.  He knows full well that that was our responsibility as viable adult parents and that we gladly did those things.  Which bares Spermidiot and SpermClan ass nicely while they whined and moaned about $110/mo, then $133/mo in CS for 11 years then $785 for a year, then $385 for 5yrs.

Go full confrontation with a flood of Contempt Motions, cease and decist orders at BM, and full frontal facts for SD. If SD still wants to take vape hits while sniffing BM's toxic PASing ass, that is ultimately on BM and SD.  Keep smacking BM firmly, and keep the message front and center to SD that BM is toxic as hell and if and when SD can behave and be respectful, Daddy may deign to spend time with her. Based completely on her behavioral choices. The two while related, are not connected. BM needs to be destroyed and SD needs clarity.

IMHO of course.

Rags's picture

BM cannot get a minor a passport without approval from DH. We got SS's PP when he was 6.  For minors under 15 they are only valid for 5yrs.  DW was the CP with full physical and legal custody.  No NCP signature/approval required.  All it took then was the signature of one parent. When he was 14 we initiated getting him a PP renewal.  That required the Spermidiot's approval and a signed form.  SpermGrandHag refused, so ... we threatened to refuse to send him on visitation since he was adult sized and had no official identification wich is what we wanted the PP for. Poof. Signature within a few days.  We never had alterior motives in renewing his PP.  We wanted him to have a valid official ID.  We actually never took him on another international trip after the trip when he was 6.  He has met us a few times in various international destinations after reaching adulthood.

The rules changed in the late 90s/early 00s requiring a signature from both BPs.

So, SD can smoke the mommy PAS crack that mommy can get her a passport.  GF'nL on that Miss Shit Spawn. GF'nL.

As for SD and Crazy.  I would start dumping regular cease and decist orders on Crazy for anything that SD posts on TikTok, any message she leaves, etc, etc, etc.... Keep a firm and very flaming hot foot up Crazy's ass. She has earned it.  

That DH sent BM a study on PAS, great job. Start sending them to both Crazy and SD.  Keep engaging SS in a healthy way and grow that relationship now that he is aging out from under the CO.  

I would also file immediatley to end the % of CS associated with SS on the day he ages out from under the CO.  Crazy may try to go after more CS for SD, but.. .that is not a sure bet by any means.  If she does, bare her ass with all of the snips, saved messages, etc, etc, etc....   As for DH getting a lawyer. He can go pro se on just abourt everything. If that is what he decides, I would advise that he consult a killer pitbull attorney to guide him.  No need for full representation.  Keep the costs down by mapping the plan, vetting it and adjusting it with guidance from an attorney, they rip out both Crazy's and SD's throats.  Our legal costs went down by 60+% when we fired our "can't we just all get along" lawyer and retained out incredibly expensive pittbull no bullshit lawyer.  A letter to the toxic side ended their shit immediately just about every time.  He never went to court with or for us. He did work closely with us to help map, vet, and define our strategy when we did go before a Judge.  We went professionally prepared, dressed appropriately, and we ripped their throats out. They came completely unprepared, dressed completely inappropriately, and pretty much just whined about everything.  We won. Over, and over, and over again.  Not fully, but certainly clearly.

Fire and adjust. Never stop the full frontal attack on toxic crap. Either from an X, extended family on either side, or from the Skids.  Keep the message clear, be idiots, be toxic, and suffer pain. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Do not tolerate their bullshit games. Keep baring ass, keep going scorched earth on them, and tolerate zero crap.  Keep family and SS up to date so they all know that DH is fighting for SD's best interests whether she continues to smoke Crazy's PAS emitting ass fumes or  not.  Sniffing ass goes in both directions between  the PASing parent and their PASd spawn.

Make sure that SD and Crazy both are educated that Crazy's shit reeks beyond measure and if SD keeps it up, hers will too. For her entire life.

SS gets it.  IMHO he has to be the priority for DH and for your when it comes to the Skids.  He sees that mommy is shit and that DH is defending the hill against BM and SD.  Make sure he is kept in the loop and informed.  

On the topic of SS, what is is general perspective on all of this?  Me is likely the only one with a clear, intellgent, full view of the Crazy/SD show.  He lives it real time in full analog view.  Not digitally created, filtered, or edited.

Good luck.

TrueNorth77's picture

It's kind of sad. SS has seen his mom's crazy MANY times. Just yesterday at Easter, DH's family were regaling us with stories of things she has done in front of SS. The time she started screaming and swearing at DH's sister while she was talking to SS when they were at a town festival, calling DH's sister a fat B....because she was pregnant. 

Anyway, he thinks SD is ridiculous and has minimal interactions with her. He complains about his mom all the time and has said he wants to live with us FT when he turns 18 next month, but he also hasn't said that for a while and he seems to be in communication with her quite a lot lately. Despite everything, he seems to want her approval, which I do understand to an extent. I wish he just would tell her to stop involving him in this thing with SD and DH. There are lots of jokes about how "abusive" DH is between SS and DH, because it's so ridiculous. Pretty sure SS is just counting the days til college. 

Rags's picture

So far, knock on wood, SS-31  has avoided going back to drink from the SpermLand gene pool pond.  They pissed him off to the point that the really has as close to zero contact with them as possible.  Even his half sibs are a non consideration for him.  Spermidiot has not been anything to him in the better part of 2.5 decades. SS knows that there has been amost zero effort from his BioDad.  Other than a few long sessions of watching Spermidiot play video games on his gaming wall  of huge monitors and a couple of Yuh-gi-Oh, Pokemon, or Magic card tournaments that Spermidiot was in, SS has almost zero memories of note with that POS.   He rarely actually played those games with SS. He deigned to allow SS to watch him.  Not much more than that and even then only a couple of times over the CO years.

SpermGrandHag was the one SS had some loyalty to, but she killed that when she attempted to get him to "repay" the CS that she and SpermGrandPa has paid to my DW for the 16+ years of the CO once he reached 18 and started his USAF career.

Your SS may still be optimistic and a bit hopeful that mommy is not a total POS write off. I get that. It has to be hard for a kid to face the types of reality that so many Skids have to face on one, the other, or both of their bio parents.

Hopefully BM can actually demonstrate some quality so that SS has some positive results from his hope. Not likely, but.... 


AgedOut's picture

What a horrible little nugget she is. just like the person she fell out of. I think your husband thinks he'd be giving up on her if he doesn't try. sadly her mother has created what she wanted and nothing will change. let them do their tik-toks, let them spread their lies. Let them threaten and attack. She made the monster, she gets to keep it. 


SS seems so well adjusted. Yet SD is a mess. I think your husband needs to step away from SD and focus on SS. Yes, he may have to pay support but doing that may help him learn to step away easier. 


And she "wants" something from him, a passport. sucks to be her. 

TrueNorth77's picture

Spot on.  Sucks to learn that you can't treat someone like crap and then expect them to do whatever you want just because they are your parent. She then throws out the "you don't love me card". Full-on manipulation. She's all yours, Crazy. 

Cover1W's picture

I hope your DH continues with the firm responses to her. I fully believe the letting her feel the repercussions of her actions is a GOOD thing. Even though it may result in her abandoning your home. OSD also felt the repercussions from DH (too late IMHO, should have started years earlier when she starting pusing boundaries but he caved easily) but it was too late - like your SD, she twisted it in her head, and to whomever would listen most likely because "attention", that DH was abusive, terrible, mean, awful, didn't care about her, didn't try to talk with her, and on and on and there was NOTHING, literally, he could do about it. The only person who could have helped turn it around was BM. And with PAS, we know that's not going to happen.

I completely agree that court will not help her follow the CO - you cannot force a teen into a car for a visit unless the other parent is in agreement with it. If your DH does receive a court date, you can present emails, texts, etc. and missed visitation as backup but ultimately I'm sure BM will win. My DH was not asked to pay more by BM (she really didn't need the money) thank goodness, it's just luck though - we were worried about it. But the narrative was likely "my dad doesn't care about me enough to support me..."

Rags's picture

The CP is responsible for surrendering the child to the NCP for visitation. The NCP is responsible for surrendering the child to the CP at the end of visitation.  Nail the CP with a contempt motion if the Skid refuses visitation.  See how the kid likes seeing the CP get spanked in court for the Skid's choices.

Lather, rinse, repeat for each visitation that the CP fails to surrender the kid.

As for the narrative .... we always made sure that SS was not faced with "my dad does not care enough about me to support me" coming from us.  Even when the SpermClan whined and cried about CS, we tied the message to SS regarding CS that the SpermClan/Spermidiot were participating in his support.  Though he figured out in fairly short order that Spermidiot paid nothing. Ever, and SpermGrandHag and SpermGrandPa paid the Spermidiot's CS for all 4 of his kids to all three baby mammas.  Not because we ever brought it up, but because SpermGrandHag would bitch to SS about when SS was in SpermLand for visitation.

Baby mama #2 and #3 collected CS and left their kids with SpermGrandHag to raise.  Which is exactly what she wanted.  She basically paid the womb donors to breed with her idiot sons though the payments were after the fact.  Of the three Spermidiot spawn that she raised, #2 is on the dole, #3 is in prison, #4 is not far behind the inmate.  The only one worth a shit is my son. The one SpermGrandHag had nothing to do with raising yet invested countless visitations over the 16yrs of the CO to PASing him against his mother and me.