Unpredictable Meltdowns
My DH and I moved into our own home about three months ago. This was the first time since his divorce that his children had their own rooms when they stayed with him for visitation weekends. The house is also closer to his boys, who originally lived 20 miles from us, but whose mother moved them 20 miles further away shortly after I met DH.
At first, BM wanted to join DH when he told the kids he was moving closer ("when you decide where you're going to move, we can tell them together") and acted all happy that DH was going to be closer. Then, when he told her he wanted to talk about move custody time, all of a sudden she went a little nuts and started telling the children that "when Dad moves to [our new town] he's going to try to take you away from me."
At first, BM claimed that one of their sons was upset because DH told him "when I move into my new house, you're going to live with me." When DH said "I didn't say anything like that." BM's response was "he was very sincere and I can't believe you'd say anything like that to our child." It should be noted that whenever DH tells her things this child is saying about her, she says "I never said that to him", so apparently, the child is only sincere when he's talking to BM.
Later, DH was driving with his two sons, SS11 said "Dad, I don't want to move to [our new town]." DH said, "you're not moving in with us when we move to [our new town], but I'm happy that I'll be closer, so it will be easier to see you more often." SS11 responds "Dad, you're not being truthful. Mom says that you're going to take us away from her when you move into your new house."
After we moved into our new house, the drama really started. Each visitation weekend, SS11 would come and immediately upon arrival run up to his room and pout. The kids stayed with us for a week over the summer. The first day of his stay, SS11 had a complete and utter meltdown. First, he accused DH of "looking at my tablet". After DH said that he didn't, SS11 called and texted his stepdad to ask how to change the password on his tablet because "my dad was looking at it." Instead of saying "I'm sure your dad doesn't really care what's on your tablet" or "well, you're 11, so you're not allowed to use the internet unless an adult knows what you're looking at", his stepdad responded by saying "does he have it now?" "I can probably help you to change the password."
Then, after DH said "I wasn't looking at your tablet, but it's time to go to bed." SS11 screamed and cried and said "you hate my mom! you hate my mom!" "you have too many rules. I want to go home. I can't stand it here." It was after 10pm at this point, so well late enough for an 11 year old to be going to bed. Our one rule is that you don't play on the internet or play video games. The first night he cried and screamed at DH for over 90 minutes. Then when DH finally thought he was done and came to bed, he started throwing something on the floor repeatedly. The next night, he again, put up a huge fuss at night saying we had too many rules and he wanted to go home. He called his mother and asked to come home early. BM was leaving at the end of the week, so he couldn't go home early, but I'm sure she didn't mention that to him. Finally, by night three, he went to bed without a fuss and was fine for the rest of the week, even though he needed to call his mother every night and some mornings. Of course, BM was never around to take his calls, even though she knew he would be calling, leaving him to want to keep his phone in his room (which is not allowed, since he has a tendency to stay up all night watching YouTube), waiting for her call after 11pm.
During that week, SS11 also kept saying "I know secrets, Dad. Mom told me secrets about you." He later, during one of his evening meltdowns, said to DH "I know secrets about you, Dad. Mom told me how you caused the divorce." I don't know how DH responded, but seriously?! The ironic thing is that both SS know that BM met her new husband long before she kicked DH out and that guy also moved in with his child less than three months after BM demanded a divorce and kicked DH out. I'm not even sure what BM said, probably nothing of consequence, but I'm sure she said it because she figured that would make DH look bad, allowing her to "win" at being best parent.
The next visitation weekend, on the ride over, DH said something to him about videos his friend was posted online - videos which this child has participated in. DH told him that he was not allowed to participate in those videos and asked him to explain a sexually explicit thing he had said in one video. SS11 became embarrassed and enraged, so when he arrived at the house he ran away and hid, called BM and said "Dad is being mean to me and I want to go home." Then of course, BM texted DH to say she was going to pick up SS11, because "he's always upset at your house." DH just repeated "He's fine" to her texts until she sent so many that he just stopped responding. She smart enough to know that she can't just come over and remove the child without repercussions.
Later that evening, the child again had a mini meltdown at bedtime and insisted on calling BM. He told me the next morning, "I have to call my mom, because I have anxiety." He later told DH "I have anxiety like my mom." DH was like "huh?" (inside he was thinking, who told you that and why do you think that, but he didn't want to pick a fight with the child about his mother, because the child loves to have meltdowns saying "why do you hate my mom?" "you hate my mom!", even though DH rarely mentions BM at all when they are here and has never said anything bad about her in front of the children).
During that week, he called DH because there was some age-inappropriate event he wanted to go to. DH said "you're not going to that on my weekend." The child called back about three times to say "please dad, please" through his tears and then say "why don't you love me, Dad? If you loved me, you'd let me go." All this was on speaker phone. DH just said to him "this conversation is over." And then didn't take his next phone call. Turned out that the event was actually on BM's weekend, so of course, she let him go and then wouldn't let him stay once she saw that adults were there smoking and drinking. Why would she ever say no to her child (or even think ahead to realize that there would be smoking and drinking at this event, since it was an overnight event on private property)?
The next visitation weekend, this child did not have a meltdown over sleeping, but called his mom to say he needed his melatonin (which he apparently takes at home to help him sleep) and supposedly said "I don't want to ask Dad because he probably won't get it for me anyway." So, BM texted to tell DH (at 10pm on a Saturday evening when everyone had to be up at 7am for a football game the next day) that the child takes melatonin at home, so would we please give him some and she had to text DH because "your child didn't feel comfortable asking you for it." Um, the time to mention that is not at 10pm in the evening, but before the child will arrive. I had asked SS11 the week before what helps to calm him when he told me that he couldn't sleep because of anxiety. He didn't mention melatonin or I would have had some on hand.
The next day at the football game, BM comes up to DH and SS11 and says "oh by the way, my family is having a party today, so could you drop the kids off at 1pm." DH responds "I had plans for the boys this afternoon." On the car ride home, SS11 has a major meltdown saying to DH "you hate my mom! you hate my family!" and demanding to go to the party. DH calmly explained that he was taking them to the movies and he would bring them to the party at 5pm.
Needless to say, I was not looking forward to spending time with SS11 this weekend. I'm so sick of these meltdowns that seem age-inappropriate and I'm also sick of BM injecting her drama into my house. However, this weekend was a totally different story. SS11 went to sleep all three nights without a fuss and didn't call his mother once. I don't think BM saw the light and realized she was hurting her child and changed her behavior, so it must be something else. I can't decide if it's because DH took SS11 and his brother out on a hunt for fishing gear immediately upon picking him up and that distracted SS11 from separating from his mother or if it's because when he got in the car and said "where are we going this weekend? Mom wants to know" and DH replied and said "what we do on our weekends together is between you and me, your mother doesn't need to know everything we do" or if it was just a fluke, but honestly it threw me for a loop.
I feel like this kid is becoming someone we all need to walk on eggshells around and I'm not looking forward to his teen years. I told my DH that for all the drama SS11 creates, he's more like a teen girl than a tween boy.
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Comments
Good luck- you're going to be
Good luck- you're going to be riding some very big waves over the next few years- keep telling yourself, 'Not my circus. not my monkeys.' My advice is to stick around on this site- you'll get some good tips and a place to vent!
Just out of interest how many ground rules did you lay down before the move? How long had you known these skids?
You need to get those rules down asap because the pressure's on DH right now, but soon it will be your turn...
My current tactic is
My current tactic is literally to walk away when he starts up. I've told DH that if his son keeps having meltdowns any time he doesn't get his way that it will be difficult for me to like him.
I've known the kids for almost three years, but this is the first time we've had a stable place where we all lived together during their visitation weekends.
Our ground rules are basically that you have a max of 30 minutes of video watching time before bed (although I've since told SS11 that screen time before bed disrupts natural melatonin, so maybe he should skip the video watching before bed) and 1 hour of video games per day. We did not set ground rules over calling BM. I've told the kids that they should feel comfortable calling their mother whenever they want, but that they also need to let us know when they need something. This was actually before he called his mom to tell her that he didn't think his dad would get him melatonin, so I was kind of angry with him that he told his mother that, because I thought he was just being manipulative. I didn't say anything to him about it though, because a counselor friend said that based on his behavior, if I told him he did something wrong, he would probably just latch on to that. I tried to tell the kids that I expected their dirty clothes to be in the hamper, their dirty plates need to go in the sink, and their trash should go in the trash can, but haven't made a big stink out of those, yet. I do now tell them that socks left on the floor will not get washed.
DH has told him a couple of times "you need to stop creating drama between me and your mother." He's also repeatedly said to the child "I don't hate your mother, we just don't get along right now."
My strategy going forward will be to totally disengage from this child if and when bigger problems arise.
It does sound as if you're
It does sound as if you're working well together and your DH does sound like he's got your back too. I would avoid making negative comments about the behaviour-this is often food for the fire. Instead give some praise (don't go overboard with this though, as he'll sense you're trying!) and also if and when he does above chores don't thank him. I think your DH's comments about the drama is spot on,but he shouldn't have qualified it with the explanation. Kids just wan to feel secure in their space,and the less drama the better. Good luck.
I told DH that kids actually
I told DH that kids actually feel better when they have rules and structure and DH said he thought SS11 felt a bit better when DH told him you can't run away when you're upset about something and you can't just have a meltdown. DH is not easily flustered, so I'm hoping the fact that he doesn't give in to the tantrums and doesn't mirror back the child's anxiety will help.
I know that BM mirrors the child's anxiety back at him and also often indicates to him that his anger and anxiety are justified. For example, in fourth grade, he had a teacher who was strict about turning in homework. If the homework was turned in, in the morning, as expected, it was considered late and would not receive full credit. Instead of using this as a learning opportunity for SS11 (who was 10 at the time), BM decided that teacher was too strict and she wanted to switch SS11's class halfway through the year. The year prior she had insisted on switching the other child midway through the year because according to this child his original teacher was "mean to Mom" and mean to his stepbrother, who didn't even go to the same school. I went to a conference with that teacher and he actually seemed like he had a good understanding of the child and how to help him develop better study and learning skills. If BM had let him do his job, I think he could have helped SS11.
I sometimes wish she would just parent, instead of just trying to make her kids happy. DH told her that in his latest angry exchange with her. After the meltdown when DH wouldn't drop the kids off early for a last minute barbecue with BM, she had the nerve to text DH and said "I really wish you wouldn't talk about adult issues with our children." DH was so angry he sent her a long text that he later sent via email saying "I don't talk about adult issues with the kids, you do" and ended it by saying "we're not meant to be our kids friends, we're meant to be their parents." The only response he got was a huffy message from her saying how ever since the day they were born, she has only ever put her children first and she did have rules at her house, so for him to imply otherwise was wrong. I was honestly a little annoyed with him that he sent her a follow up email. I thought all the things he said to her were true and he wasn't being mean or telling her she was a terrible person, but he gave her the opportunity to respond in writing about what a great parent she is. If he told her what the children had said to him, she would have told him that they were lying. Also, SS11's friend has posted videos of them playing video games online together at 2am, so we know they don't have bedtimes at home and we know they aren't required to do their homework, because last year, we found out mid-year that they weren't handing any homework in. BM tries to keep school information from DH, so we hadn't seen the first term report cards. They both got their homework grades up final term, because DH and I called them every day to go over their homework with them. At first, BM told DH he was "being intrusive", but then probably decided that she really didn't want to work on homework herself, so stopped complaining. I also told DH that he should call before she got home, since he gets out of work earlier than she does.
I think your DH is handling
I think your DH is handling it well. There isn't much more that he can really do since it appears his tactics of "don't give in" are working. I'm wavering on thinking if the child should be punished for the outbursts because I think punishment would just reinforce your SS's brainwashed ideas about DH.
We ran into similar, though less overt, issues when DH and I moved in together. YSS, who is a little younger than yours, had similar fits. He didn't want to sleep at night, he didn't want to do as he was told, he didn't want to eat the food we prepared. It was a fight for at least 3 months just for him to do as he was told EOWE. I don't know exactly what she was telling the boys, but I do know she was at least telling them that she had to see our house before they stayed over to make sure it was safe (which cracked me up because she was living in a hotel at the time and lying to DH about it). She made a crack later that the reason DH saw the kids more often was because I was around (not sure if that one was meant to be a compliment or telling the kids they weren't important, only impressing me was).
Again, though, this all eventually died down. It stemmed from jealousy and real fear, I think, that DH was on equal or better footing to take the kids if he wanted. The only real way to prevent that was to make sure the boys either misbehaved enough that we didn't want them to stay or for them to be vocal enough to say they didn't want to - either to DH or a judge.
I wouldn't be surprised if your BM is operating off a similar fear that she'll lose her kids, either physically or emotionally. That doesn't make her tactics, or her DH's reinforcement of them, healthy or wise. However, it may mean that they fizzle pit when she realizes very little will actually change. My guess is that your SS feels anxious because BM felt anxious, and as she controls her emotions more, he will, too (my SS is a very empathetic kid, especially when it comes to BM and his SF, so been there, done that).
Just remember that your DH's tactics are working, so roll with it. If he starts giving in or letting up, readdress the issue. For right now, though, I think you are on about as solid of footing as you are going to get with the situations. I hope that this is temporary like mine was and everything dwindles down to nothing.
I have told DH that he
I have told DH that he shouldn't reward the child's outbursts. After the whole "you hate my mom! you hate my family!" tantrum he took SS11 out to get fast food, because he was "starving", too starving to make the 20 minute drive home, apparently. He was also "starving" because he didn't feel like eating breakfast before his game. I also hate it when DH gives in when the kids are "starving" because they are not in fact, starving.
My concern with both BM and this SS is that they definitely feed off of one another's anxiety and BM's anxiety is not just tied to losing her children.
For example, SS11 was upset about his mid-year grades last year (not sure why he was upset or why he expected them to be better, since he does absolutely no work). He had meltdown over all of his grades being 2s and called her at work crying. Her response was to assume that his ADHD medication was wrong (leading to poor performance in school) so she sent several frantic texts to DH about how she had a "frantic child" and needed to talk to him (she and DH have a clause in their CO saying they only speak on the phone in emergencies). She did not specify why the child was frantic or what the "decision" she had to make was. DH called both kids and SS11 said he was a bit upset, but didn't specify. DH texted BM back and said "I just talked to both kids and they seemed fine, what's the issue?" She then sent him a bunch of non-descriptive texts accusing him of calling her a liar and saying she couldn't possibly tell him what the issue was over text. She then said she had to make a medical decision, but since he wasn't willing to talk to her, she'd just do it herself. He had stopped responding to her at that point and didn't feel like talking to her, since she only wanted him to calm her down. She later texted that since he refused to talk to her over the phone, she made the decision herself. Then there was drama because it took DH's medical insurance a few days to approve the medication change. DH offers to help her - he even offered to go and get the prescription since she kept saying how much work it was for her, but she just wanted to pick a fight with him at that point. DH himself has ADD and was medicated throughout childhood, so he hates the fact that BM lets SS11 use his medication as an excuse for everything. I'm also not convinced that SS11 has ADD. He's forgetful, but it's unclear if that's because he's never been expected to remember anything. He has meltdowns, but a) his mother has regular meltdowns; b) his meltdowns started after BM kicked DH out of the house; c) he acts out in school when he's confused about something. He does not behave like DH at all - who definitely drives me crazy at times with his hyperfocus and inability to plan anything in advance.
I think BM feels anxious in general about "winning" as a parent, so I think the fact that DH now has a stable and happy life is driving her nuts. She's super manipulative and she's passing that right on to her child, so I don't expect his behavior to get any better.
There have also been several occasions where SS11 has called asking DH if he could do something that DH has specifically said he couldn't do. DH has put some of these calls on speaker phone and after DH has said "no, I won't allow you to do that" or "no, you can't do that on my time with you" the child replies by crying and saying "please dad, please!" He'll then call back and say "why don't you love me dad?" after DH says "this conversation is over." The last time, DH didn't even answer the phone after he called, because he was starting to get really angry.
The one thing that helps is that SS11 genuinely enjoys spending time with DH, so if he (maybe with a little help from me) can definitely figure out how to capitalize on that, then maybe we could limit some of the drama...maybe.
Minus the rewarding, your DH
Minus the rewarding, your DH is doing fine and doesn't need your coaching. He can't fix what BM does, nor can he stop her. All he can do is what he is doing, which is maintain structure and stability, and say no when appropriate. I don't know what else you would have him do except punish SS for the outbursts (which is going to be difficult to do with such limited amounts of time with him; not saying it can't be done, but it needs to be really thoughtful).
I've told DH that he's doing
I've told DH that he's doing a good job managing the situation with SS11 and that I was proud of him for holding firm and being clear with SS11 about what was ok and what wasn't. I honestly don't expect him to do much more than that and I'm honestly happy to let him handle it. My plan is to not get involved and to just remove myself from the drama as much as possible.
I do wish he would stop trying to "reason" with BM (he still thinks that if he can just explain to her that she's hurting their children that she'll stop), but I think he is coming to the realization that things are much better for everyone (himself included) if he works to limit contact with her. By limiting his efforts to try to reason with her, he's actually freed himself up to be more of a parent in the way he wants to be for his children.
He doesn't punish SS11 for his outbursts, but he does shut down the conversation, walk away, or ignore him if he carries on.
About six months ago, DH was feeling pretty helpless about the whole situation. His children were struggling in school and he was fed up that BM was telling the kids "your father hates me" and "your father never responds to my texts." He's been much more direct with the kids since then about how he and BM don't get along, but they don't need to worry about that, about how his time with them is his time and because he respects their mother's time with them he expects her to respect his time with them. I think that's helped him a lot. Of course, school has started again and both kids are now in middle school, so I expect a little bit of drama, but overall, DH is in a much better place than he was before. It still drives him crazy that BM is constantly putting the kids right in the middle and forcing them to choose between parents, but he can't change her behavior, so he just needs to focus on his own response to things.
Tell SS his mother is lying
Tell SS his mother is lying to him because she doesn't want Dad to have the kids.
That DH does NOT hate BM or her family and he needs to stop acting like a petty child throwing a damn temper tantrum because he's not happy for whatever reason.
Also Dad should take Jr to the dr to discuss this "anxiety"
Sounds like he's being coached by his mother.
As far as the melantonin-now that you are aware he needs it-stock up.
Dad should also explain to Jr that if he needs something at Dad's house-Ask Dad
Do not text Mom crying because "he's too afraid to ask Dad"
My stepkids know they ask me or their father for anything and they will get it (yes my stepkids are reasonable with their requests)
DH has told SS11 that he
DH has told SS11 that he doesn't hate his mother or her family. He's also told him that when he's upset about something, he can't just cry and run away, but I do think he needs to make it clear that he won't get what he wants if he has a tantrum. This lesson should have been taught to this child long ago, but I don't think it was. DH's kids are babied by BM and were babied by DH until I met him. I told him I was embarrassed by some of the things he allowed his children to do.
DH talked to one therapist about working with SS11 over something else and the therapist said she could only treat him with the consent of both parents. He texted BM and said "what's up with SS11 saying "I have anxiety like my mom" and she of course, didn't respond.
I was really annoyed about the melatonin because just the week before, he mentioned that he had trouble sleeping and I had said "well, what helps you sleep?" He mentioned taking a bath sometimes helped, I told him he could do that. I suggested a couple of things, but he made no mention of melatonin. BM sent some with him this week, but I had already gone out to get some. I wanted to tell him that we would get what he needed, but he needed to be willing to ask, but since he brought his own, it didn't come up. Not sure why BM couldn't have sent some before it became an issue or even have given DH a heads up, but I think she prefers to make the children think that she is the only parent who cares.
we went through this with BM
we went through this with BM a few times
SD16 would just take whatever she wanted (shampoo/pads/deodorant etc)
She would take as in use it and toss it into her bag,
Finally DH and I sat her down and told her
"if you need something-TELL US. we are not mind readers. If you need pads/soap (because she has eczema) etc tell us please!"
otherwise she'd cry to BM how she's suffering because Dad and GF (my nickname is girlfriend) didn't buy me this or that
here comes the Banshee banging on my back doorstep because somebody's fee fees were hurt
Tell the kid to speak up.
It's been 10yrs for DH and I and we're STILL dealing with the fuckery!
Only now it's "You need to buy me this" or "I need to have that"
Thank god for Amazon Prime.
As far as his attitude and behavior-try this
Print out the symptoms of Anxiety in Kids.
Ask him "Do you have this or that?!"
And when he says no-show him the list "You don't have anxiety you're just being a crybaby"
Of course I"m brutal like that.
My SS11 tells me all the time how I ruin his life because I ask him to shower/brush his teeth or just to move off his bed-then its full tears and meltdowns.
You'll learn to deal. Mine is by being a honest asshole.
I too, would be an honest
I too, would be an honest a-hole, but right now, I try to just walk away and let DH handle it. If he has a meltdown in front of me, again, though, I may just say to him "it's ok to feel angry or upset, but you need to find a more productive way of expressing your feelings. We don't respond to tantrums."
I've also told DH that he should tell SS11 that the next time he has a meltdown, DH is going to record it and post it online. I know he would not want his friends knowing how he behaves, so he'd be mad at DH, but the meltdowns would stop.
The ironic thing about the anxiety comment, is that my mother has anxiety (undiagnosed, but the woman hasn't slept through the night in decades because she's always worrying about something), but a) never talked about it; and b) if I told her I thought I had anxiety, she would tell me that I was fine and needed to stop complaining.
Posting that mess online
Posting that mess online isn't the answer
Either you ignore him until he can act like a child of 11
or
lol (Don't judge me) get on his level-throw a tantrum of your own of how unfair it is he's acting like a baby when,in fact he's a big boy,
that's How I got sd16 to stop her tantrums
brat would throw herself on the floor flailing around kicking and screaming
until I did it in Walmart because OMG I TOLD HER NO!!!!!!!
*snort*