My big question on the suicide blog and the responses that followed...
I have a question ladies, and I am wondering if I missed something along the way, in a post I didn't read, or whatever.
We were all so saddened... so touched by a member of this site's suicide that many on here are vowing to treat each other better. And there have been more than a few discussions on how we should look at each other with a little more compassion and a little less judgment. How we should temper our responses to them and try to help them. How we should call each other out when we see each other coming down particularly hard on another member. Because you never know... our words and thoughts could really really hurt someone.
While I completely agree that our words and thoughts on this place MATTER more than we realize... I am wondering the following.
What about our spouses? Our SO"s? Our SKIDS? In-laws and families?
I think what was very interesting in that blog and subsequent answers was that we all banded together to protect each other, but I did not see anything where someone said, "Wow... this man came on to mourn his fiancee. He really did love her more than we, she realized? Maybe we should give our REAL LIFE families this consideration that we are discussing and picking apart to no end on here."
Did I miss that? Or was it not said?
Because if anything.... the revelation of how we treat each other on here is a good one. But in my opinion, the real revelation should be to cherish our loved ones. We don't know what internal pain they are going through. We don't know how much we are hurting them. We don't know if they are at their wits end. We need to learn to speak to them better and we need to be more aware of how to cope with them.
That's my thoughts on it. And this didn't mean to sound holier than thou... but I really have been thinking about this a lot the last 24 hours.
- Stick's blog
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Comments
You make a very valid point
You make a very valid point stick...and I don't think you sound holier than thou. I'd say more but I'm responding from my phone and it is a huge pain to type! Lol "Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
..."I'm not mean, you're just a sissy."
It is interesting Stick. My
It is interesting Stick. My dh and I are very careful about how we treat one another (even when we disagree) and the other people we love. My entire life's perspective changed after my brother took his own life. I thank God everyday for the good relationship that I did have with him. We never exchanged harsh words and I am sure he knew somewhere in his heart that I would have done anything for him (he had borrowed money, asked for favors, etc. and I never turned him down and he always repaid me). That knowledge is the only thing that gets me through some days. The easiest way to assuage grief or find solace after the loss of a loved one is to have no doubts that the person knew how much you loved them. Practice it everyday because you really never know when good-bye will be the last one. Even my niece (his daughter who was 2 when he died) is emotionally deep enough to say "Aunt svs, I know you're sad about your baby, but my daddy left me here for you to take care of and I know he is taking care of your little baby in Heaven".
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
Very valid points Stick. As
Very valid points Stick. As you know I'm personally having a bad day, but DH is having a much much worse day and I'm doing everything in my power to suck it up myself and not let my mind go to a bad place because he needs me right now. He needs me to be ok for him because he's always the tough and strong one but sometimes he needs me to be the tough and strong one and today is one of those days for him. I have to pull out of my own 'what about me' so I can think 'what about HIM'.... HE is more important than anything or anyone else and sometimes it's easy to forget that.
I for one, just tried to
I for one, just tried to offer him some comfort with words that once comforted me.....I really didn't see the need to respond with anything else at that moment.......,,,and u hang in there WSM.....yur DH is sooooooo lucky to have u
A mother is not defined by the "b" or the "s" in front of her name, she is defined by how she handles the "mother" part.....
Thank you Lotus... that made
Thank you Lotus... that made me feel good...
well...the way I see
well...the way I see it....if we didn't have these really bad days....we wouldn't realize how awesome the good days are.....i just went thru a really rough patch myself....and now I look back and say....made it thru that one!!!....so will u and yur DH :).....
A mother is not defined by the "b" or the "s" in front of her name, she is defined by how she handles the "mother" part.....
Thanks for making this
Thanks for making this point, Stick. I've come to some realizations lately that I need to be more empathetic to what FH is going through and what he puts up with around here. So I'm making a concerted effort to do so, and to show appreciation for everything he does for us.
Actually, scratch that. I'm
Actually, scratch that. I'm beginning to think he's just a jerk who can't relate to kids. He's doing nowhere near what I would expect from someone who supposedly loves her. He doesn't even call his own children on a regular basis. I think it's time for me to seriously reconsider the whole thing.
I think you have an
I think you have an excellent point.
Suicide affects so many people. One of my dad's employees committed suicide. He was the first person in my life who did that. I was a teen, but it's stuck with me.
Many times, there is no one reason a person commits suicide. It's a lot of things piled together. Some people, by nature, have difficulty asking for help.
In terms of who is the reason one commits suicide, I think that a lot of times, people do not mean to stress a person but they unintentionally do (i.e. kids).
People of all age ranges take their lives- it's so sad. One of my SDs knew a girl who did so last year. This girl had been bullied, but she also was severely depressed. My SD didn't interact with her much but it really affected her. It also made the school crack down hard on bullies. It made DH and myself make an effort to talk with the kids more.
I probably am guilty of
I probably am guilty of making assumptions DPW. I feel like our judgment and our ability to "forgive and forget" get clouded because there's no getting away from these people in our lives that can (and sometimes do) cause us so much pain. So, while we can take a break of ST when a poster(s) annoys us, we don't have that same privilege when we are living every day with someone.
I understand your point about the animals / children and hopefully I assumed incorrectly.
I truly and honestly believe that sometimes it is easier to reach out a sympathetic hand to an anonymous poster on the internet, rather than the "stranger" we sometimes live with because there's no other baggage there. We write our words of comfort and it doesn't affect OUR lives. We aren't giving people on here precedence over our lives. We log on when we want, we log off when we want, and we give as much as we want to ... and no more. Sometimes we get hurt. Sometimes we get into "discussions" with our SO's. But let's not be naive... supporting each other on here is so much easier because of (1) shared situations and circumstances and (2) it requires no "real" commitment from us. So it's easier to say "oh! we should be more tolerant of each other" when the real people we need to look at are probably sitting on the couch right next to us. At least, that's my opinion on it.
And that's what is sad to me. We are strangers on here willing to take a deep breath before we react and "hurt" someone. I can bet that the kind soul who updated us with that blog felt to some extent like a stranger to his fiancee.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
I KNOW I may come across as
I KNOW I may come across as very CRUEL but I read what he wrote and I wanted to send it to my husband and his bitches BUT I KNOW he would just dish it aside and make an excuse BUT I really feel horrible for this woman and HER family:
I wanted to tell the husband glad he feels remorse NOW but has that changed the way he decided to raise his kids, has he stopped allowing them to be inconsiderate or is he still looking at them as the "innocent" ones who do no wrong. My husband can speak a very good game BUT when ,push comes to shove his kids still NO MATTER how much wrong they do still will never learn because they manipulate everything.
I wanted to ask where the hell he was when she was telling him what was happening BUT he continued to let it go on and she stayed because she must have loved him....
I know many will disagree with me BUT I didn't even get to finish what he wrote because I was feeling angry towards him!
"The pic reminds me of the slaveboy and his queens in this home...it depicts a kid ruling her Big daddy...how sweet! What it doesn't show is the Big Daddy bowing and thanking them for the abuse and begging for more"!
I know this and that is why
I know this and that is why I did not respond to him. I know that I was personalizing and placing her in my shoes and just picturing my husband writing something, such as her husband, and then really not learning a damned thing!
Yes, she did have a choice BUT as we have all stated, maybe within her self she could not find a way out. We really do not know the entire story BUT I do hope the husband takes a closer look at his kids the next time he ever chooses to get involved in another relationship.
"The pic reminds me of the slaveboy and his queens in this home...it depicts a kid ruling her Big daddy...how sweet! What it doesn't show is the Big Daddy bowing and thanking them for the abuse and begging for more"!
You're not cruel, you're
You're not cruel, you're saying what I am sure others are thinking, but no one should kick him while he is down. I am sure he feels bad enough. Trust me when I say that feeling anger toward him won't change how he feels about himself. He may change. He may not. It is not our place to point him in that direction. It is like rehab, it needs to be voluntary. I watched my mother blame my brother's wife. I watched my brother's wife blame my mother. Neither of them took into account that they probably shared responsibility with about 1000 other things.
I feel some anger for my brother's wife (though now it is mostly because she kept my niece from us for 2 months and forced a visitation order) because she wasn't a good wife. She was controlling. She overspent. She left him alone many nights to go out trolling. She had a son who treated my brother terrible and whom she babied and coddled until he sexually assaulted a young girl and was put in juvie. She lied, manipulated, and fought endlessly with him. I felt anger for my mother because she was a control freak and she guilted us into doing things her way even in adulthood. I felt anger that he was stuck between the two of them everyday knowing they hated each other and having to choose who to piss off on a regular basis. I felt anger for my father who taught us to "keep the peace at all costs" and never taught us it was okay to make our own choices and fight for ourselves (he was supportive, but never crossed our mother.) I felt anger for his teachers in school who never realized that "helping" him get through school rather than pointing out that he couldn't read (he graduated high school without ever learning to read). I felt anger with the other kids who picked on him. I felt anger at myself for not helping him because I didn't know how. At the end of the day all the anger did noone any good. It didn't bring him back. My mother and father have both changed. Not dramatically, but I can tell that internally they evaluated themselves in light of his death and my dad sticks up for himself more and my mother minds her business better. I am not sure what his wife has done as I have no relationship with her but she doesn't bad mouth my brother to his kid and that is all that matters to me.
This man knows deep down he played a role in her final stage of unhappiness even if she was predisposed (and I believe she probably was). He will never forget that. There is no reason to kick him while he is down. It wouldn't honor this woman to do that. She loved him enough to stay and ultimately give her life. She wouldn't want us to attack him. Whether he changes with respect to his kids or not is not our fight. He will be dishonoring them if he doesn't and he will have to live with that too. In fact all the bioparents on here who think their children are innocent and are teaching them (by omission) that disrespect and irresponsibility are okay are dishonoring their children and will have to live with that fact as they go into the world and fail in work, in relationships, and in their own parenting.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
Whoa - this is great SVS -
Whoa - this is great SVS - in general, not just in the context of how the DH is feeling (I completely agree it serves no purpose to beat him or anyone down now - and I think he is writing that he completely gets it - and I wish him only PEACE going forward):
"Whether he changes with respect to his kids or not is not our fight. He will be dishonoring them if he doesn't and he will have to live with that too.
***In fact all the bioparents on here who think their children are innocent and are teaching them (by omission) that disrespect and irresponsibility are okay are dishonoring their children and will have to live with that fact as they go into the world and fail in work, in relationships, and in their own parenting.***"
Ding, ding, ding - we have a winner! imho
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“Learn by practice.” - Martha Graham
Thanks Most Evil. "God is
Thanks Most Evil.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
I'd like to add that none of
I'd like to add that none of this makes him a bad person. My parents aren't bad people. I love them dearly, but it didn't change my anger toward them. Kicking him while he is down is putting ourselves at risk for becoming someone who pushed someone else over the brink.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
Yes, Stick, I see what you
Yes, Stick, I see what you mean, and no, I did not see anyone say that. It didn't occur to me, I guess because for me that's a given. I do try always to be gentle with DH and with SDs, because I am old enough to know how important that is. Relationships and people are such fragile things, it is so easy to damage them, that we owe it to the people in our lives to strive to be our best versions of ourselves in how we treat them.
I guess I assume that the people on here generally try to do this, and that the versions they show of themselves here on ST are often the versions they would be ashamed to show others -- so they come here to let it out and ask for help. This is why I think it is so wrong to insult and berate them. Because honestly, who among us hasn't had moments where we are truly hateful and petty? We are all capable of that, and what we ask from our friends is that they acknowledge that we are human and gently help us through the times when we struggle to be the people we want to be.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
is the post still up???
is the post still up??? what member committed suicide??? how sad!
It's this
It's this one:
http://www.steptalk.org/node/21716
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
omg, i just burst into tears
omg, i just burst into tears after reading this post.
We can never hold ourselves
We can never hold ourselves responsible for another's mental state. Someone who is suicidal is going to feel suicidal regardless of the situation she's in. I'm all for showing appreciation and treating people well. But suicide is the fault of the person who took her own life - no one else's. It's the ultimate "fuck you".
Well...my view from the
Well...my view from the fiance's post was that he DID realize all the mistakes he made....where he goes from here is up to him....he can either make the same mistakes again or learn from this horrid experience....My God....I have made so many mistakes in my relationships in my life....I don't even know where to begin....I mean do we all do the best we can every day?....if our beloved partners committed suicide,,,,,,,and we knew we hadn't been perfect in the relationship, would we then face the same scrutiny this man is facing here?.....wow.....I'm speechless...this man didn't even have to come on here and let us know what happened to his fiance...he could have deleted Steptalk and went on his way....but he wanted us to know YES he made mistakes....mistakes that he cannot fix now....maybe he was just hoping some of us could try to fix ours while we have the opportunity......
A mother is not defined by the "b" or the "s" in front of her name, she is defined by how she handles the "mother" part.....
Exactly Lotus.... In my
Exactly Lotus.... In my mind... he reached out to say "I'm sorry"... to her... to us, and to take responsibility for whatever he feels he did wrong.
It was heart-wrenching to read, and very sweet of him to post.
If my dear husband, or my dear stepdaughter committed suicide, I can tell you that I WOULD KNOW EVERY SINGLE HORRIBLE THING I ever did to them, and I would never forgive myself. I would beat myself up every day trying to figure out which thing it was that I did. Even writing this scares me, because I can't imagine the pain.
We can't control how our SO's treat us. We can't control how our skids treat us. But we can control how we treat them. And how much appreciation, or lack thereof because we are so angry with other things, we give them.
Our compassion may be burned out for our SO, but if we are willing to save the relationship, I would not just read that blog as a stepparent who committed the suicide, but from that poor man's point of view - as if it were our partner -
as well.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
I haven't logged into this
I haven't logged into this site in about 3 weeks or so. Ironic that I was just, 1/2 an hour ago, thinking about killing myself. Not that I have a plan. It was just a fleeting thought after a couple of really really dark days. I do feel so incredibly alone. And my husband...well, he just doesn't seem to understand. Maybe I expect too much. I don't know. I'm just trying to get through this night. In this house, by myself. Then I logged on and read this man's post and this one.
I don't really know what else to type here. Its nice to know that someone out there in cyberspace will read this. And that, I'm not alone.
Brightside - you aren't
Brightside - you aren't alone. I am sorry I didn't see this sooner... but that is one of the great things about this place. There's usually a few people on here and there that can respond.
Please know that there's always another day, another chance.
I'm not saying this "out my ass"! Ha!! I want you to really understand that things may look clearer tomorrow. And, as you say, in times like this... it really is one night at a time.
PM me, or tell more here... We are all here for you!!
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Thankyou Stick. Tomorrow is
Thankyou Stick. Tomorrow is another day.
DPW..you are so strong. You
DPW..you are so strong. You inspire me. I'm okay. I had a moment tonight...a fleeting one. I got through this night. That's something. Its nice to know you're here and Stick.
Many hugs brightside. You
Many hugs brightside. You aren't alone and I truly believe that their is something wonderful out there for each of us. We just need to be patient. Every once in awhile someone on here posts something about a dh or a skid who had an "aha" moment. Those moments are out there for each of us. Rough nights / days sometimes happen many days in a row making it difficult to remember that they aren't all that dark and that we are people with grievances not grievances who live.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
BRIGHTSIDE - Kat / Selkie -
BRIGHTSIDE - Kat / Selkie - DPW - Ladies...
Brightside please tell us how you are today. Please.
Kat / Selkie - I know that you two know a lot about putting on the brave face.... I just wanted you to see Brightside's post, as I think she could use our online hugs and some words of support!
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
I wish I could offer some
I wish I could offer some words of comfort here. It's so very easy to slip into hopelessness when we feel trapped. Sometimes it's hard to see a way out. I think the most important thing when we feel this way is to realize that we don't really want to die, we just want the pain to end. Almost every single person who is experiencing suicidal ideation is, in reality, ambivalent; part of us wants to die but deep inside another part really wants to live. Find that part of you that wants to live. Think about the reasons why you need to carry on.
For me, I need to think about my daughter and the devastation she would experience if I gave in to these suicidal fantasies. I know she needs me and that is enough to make me carry on. Think about those who love you and what your actions would do to them. Even if you can't see a way out right now, try to remember past happiness and realize that you likely won't feel this way tomorrow.
Now I'm going to re-read this several times to let it sink in. I'm not in a very good place myself today.
LOL!!! I loved skating! We
LOL!!! I loved skating! We have been 'snowed in', for us, and getting stir crazy here in the southeast.
I always BEGGED to get 'speed skates' like you describe for years, but never got them! I did get the big pom poms you put on the rented skates though!!
I was at the rink every weekend for years. Remember Couples skate, Ladies Choice, the Hokey-Pokey?!! that would be so fun!
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“Learn by practice.” - Martha Graham
Katrinkie, another thing DH
Katrinkie, another thing DH and I do together, to have something in common, is to just go for walks, for 'exercise', although he has to walk slow so I can keep up. (I am pretty lazy and it shows! lol)
I also wimp out on the hills and and make him wait for me. But we have some good conversations doing it although he did make the rule that if one of wants to change the topic, we change it (ex. SD).
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“Learn by practice.” - Martha Graham
OMG - he is great, I love
OMG - he is great, I love him! I would love for my Dh to agree to this but he has said, he never, ever will (he tricked me before we were married, will tell another time).
But - since he won't dance with me, I take middle eastern dance (bellydance) - it is so fun, it is cheap, you get to wear funky outfits and now most of my girlfriends are dance friends - I highly recommend it!
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“Learn by practice.” - Martha Graham