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Posting as a BM about Child Support

justmakingthebest's picture

Ok, now I have always been fair with my exH. Taken less than the calculators stated, never went after more when they moved to CA where I could have petitioned for double what he is paying. 

He is retiring from the military and he and his wife have decided that he is going to be a stay at home dad. Based on the court calculator this would drop CS to $200 (we currently receive $1040). 

Here is my issue. He has 21 years of military service and a master's degree in project management. He was a Chief in the AF, the highest enlisted rank you can get. HE IS CHOOSING to not work. 

How is that my kids fault and why should they receive less because he is choosing to stop working and only collect his retirement check? 

They have asked me what I think would be fair. Honestly, I think keeping it the same is fair because if he went to work again, he would likely make sustainably more that he was making in PLUS his retirement. It isn't mine or my kids problem that they had another baby and he wants to stop working at the ripe old age of 41. 

I like our relationship and I don't want it to strain over this but I feel like I could get imputed income on him if we went to court over this- which I DO NOT want to have to do. I need opinions on what you think would be fair in this situation. I think even suggesting an 80% drop is ridiculous given the circumstances. 

Comments

ICanMakeIt's picture

does this mean that his retirement check as the highest ranking AF position is so low it would compute to CS at $200.00? HOLY CRAP if so. 

advice.only2's picture

Well much as he might love to retire and be a stay at home dad, reality is he has 2 other children to support. Sounds like he is being really selfish and totally negating his children's needs for his own.
$1040 for two children is not bad honestly, I have seen CS set for 1 child at $1500 per month and that was with EOW visitation.

ETA I would expect the same if the roles were reversed and it was a BM retiring and wanting to stay at home and not work and expect to live off the CS alone. Nope get a JOB and support the kids.

ETA
Look at it this way, if this were still an intact marriage and he was retiring he would be looking for another job because he would know he's got teenage children to support and help get through college. I don't see how his new spouse feels him retiring and being a stay at home dad is going to save them any money? Realistically he can make more money as a contractor which is what most retired military do. And if she's still enlisted she can get on base child care.
Is he thinking because they will be 3 1/2 hours away he will somehow have more time with his kids there by lowering his obligation to them to only 100 dollars a piece per month?

Stepdrama2020's picture

It is selfish. Does he bitch about paying child support? From what you wrote it doesnt sound like it. Do you think because you are so agreeable he thinks you wont do anything about this. What about his wife, do you have a good relationship and how is her relationship with your kids? Wonder is she bitter? She has little reason to be, but you never know.

tog redux's picture

Yeah, it's not reasonable for him to stop paying because he wants to retire at 41, and as you said, the court wouldn't agree with it anyway.  Can you make it about the kids - ie, I really still need X amount to support them, given (fill in the blank on their needs and activities)?

I have a friend who does not make her ex pay full support, but takes a much smaller amount, with the understanding that if she needs more money for certain things he will cough it up. He knows full well that she's giving him a good deal, so he does. They get along well, and it's worked so far (kid is turning 18 this week). Would your ex work that way with you?

agitated's picture

I believe if he CHOOSES to not work, CS does not change. The only time it would go down is if he was fired, laid-off, or went on disabiltiy; basically involuntarily not working. 

tog redux's picture

I think if he was of retirement age, it can also go down, but obviously, he's not.

Wilhelm's picture

I think he has the right to stay at hime and look after his child. If he was a stay at home woman who had another child what would happen?

He might only be 41 but he might be worn out from a stressful job and deserve a break.

He is going to be available to spend more time with the bio kids you share with him. Perhaps their father's time will be more valuable than money.

 

tog redux's picture

So - he stops helping to support his other kids because he's tired at age 41 and deserves a break?

If a woman was ordered to pay support and she didn't want to work, at 41, it should be the same - she still has to pay.  Most women don't pay support.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

I've worked full-time time since I was 20. Sometimes one full-time job and 1-2 part-time jobs. For 6 years, I worked two full-time jobs. I'm bloody well exhausted, and deserve a break, but I have financial responsibilities. 

If he needs a break, he should not have had kids because they are his financial responsibility until they age out or, sadly, pass away before that time. A break. SMDH

Exjuliemccoy's picture

arrangement. He wants what he wants, and is willing to screw over everyone to get it, but hasn't thought things through.

I think you should refer to the CA cs calculator to find out what he SHOULD be paying, then respond with something like "While I congratulate you on completing your military career, our kids' needs haven't changed. You are already paying less than ___, the CA recommended amount of support, so I find it unreasonable to expect me to work more so you can not work to support ___ and ___. Teens are expensive, and there's still college to consider, so I must decline your proposal."

I've  known several people who've put in their twenty in the military and went on to successful second careers in the private sector. It's just what you do, and your ex obviously isn't running the numbers or he'd realize that he can't really afford to retire now. He'd also be screwing over his second family by depriving them of future financial security. 

He may pout and call you a greedy GU, but it's really he who is the twat. 

 

tog redux's picture

I'd guess that most military/law enforcement who retire in their 40s start up a second career - why? Because they still have to support their family, like this guy still does.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

My father retired from the military at 38. Then he spent another 20 years at a civilian job and retired.

A good friend spent 30 years in the Army, retired, and now works in civilian IT. He's 55.

tog redux's picture

Exactly - few of them truly "retire", partly for finances, and also because many of them probably want to work. 

Hesitant to try's picture

His optional retirement and choice to no longer work does NOT mean it costs you less to support your kids. I'd be straightforward about it and see what they say. Maybe they can continue to cough up the $1,040. Gheesh!!! Retired at 41! He's going to go out of his mind. I'm guessing he'll return to the work force after he gets a few months of 24/7 home life. 

notsofast's picture

Is he ordered to pay for college for your kids?

Is he paying for health insurance?  Will he lose tricare for his dependents when he retires, including your children?

Will he spend more time with the kids, longer visits or something?

What do you want?  Do you want CS to stay the same?  Do you need it to stay the same or above a certain threshold?

Who pays for travel when the kids go visit him?

How old is the other child?  I assume his W works.

Project managers can work from home, work temporary contracts for a few months at a time and then have time off to be a full time stay at home parent between gigs.  I have a brother who does exactly that.  The money is very good and he could and maybe should consider something like that, to be able to continue supporting his kids the same way he is now, earning more for retirement or college funds for all his kids.

Another alternative would be for his CS to lower to XYZ amount each month but he agrees to continue paying that amount until the kids are through with college.  Or something like that?

 

ETA: I also don't think it would be right for your DH to be supporting his children financially because he wants to stay home and take care of another child.  If your ex is the honorable man, wants to be a good provider type, that argument might have a lot of sway.

justmakingthebest's picture

He is not ordered to pay any college.

Once he retires, the kids will fall under DH's tri-care (we don't pay for health insurance being military)

Because I am taking substantially less in CS they pay the flights and I pay the unaccompanied minor fees ($300 round trip) when they visit. However, they are moving back to the DC area and will be about 3.5 hrs away again this spring. So flights are no longer an issue.

I think it should remain the same. I am not asking for more, I never have but I don't think it should be less because he wants to be a stay at home parent. 

justmakingthebest's picture

I really appriecate the reality check. I think I am over sensitive to being a "bitter BM". 

tog redux's picture

Has he actually said he wants to pay less, or are you just planning ahead? Maybe they've built it into their budget and can afford to keep paying for a few more years while he stays home.

justmakingthebest's picture

No he said that the new calculator would put him at $200/mo and what would I like to do....

tog redux's picture

OH, well then - time to say that you are quite sure the court would enforce him paying more than that, given his age, and you'd like to continue as is until X date - maybe lower it when the oldest graduates?

Rumplestiltskin's picture

What would you like to do? Lol. Tell him you would like for nothing to change. 

Merry's picture

That's the trouble with being amicable. It's too easy to take advantage.

The needs of your shared kids don't change because he retires. Remind him that you've never asked for more support even though you could have, and you're not in a position to take less since there is no reduction of expenses for you. Good for him for retiring and congratulations on that, but he still has two kids at your house that need his financial support.

ndc's picture

I suspect what he's going to do is stay at home until his youngest child is school aged (will your kids be 18 at roughly that time?) and then go back to start his second career.  I'm sure that works really well for his new family, but it doesn't work for you.  I'd remind him that you have never tried to take advantage of him, and you've voluntarily agreed to take less than you were entitled to, and then tell him that your children's needs have not decreased and you think it's fair and appropriate for him to continue at the level of support he currently pays.  

I would be stunned if he was not imputed with income that got him to at least what he's currently paying, so he's being disingenuous by saying the calculator shows $200.  He wants it to look like everything over $200 is a gracious gift from him, when in reality everything less than what the calculator shows at his current income is money you're leaving on the table to his benefit.  Definitely tell him you want CS to be unchanged.

notsofast's picture

Congratulations on your goal to be a sahd!  However, we also have kids who are teens and have more expenses than ever, plus we need to discuss college costs which are coming up soon.  I think cs should be XYZ amount and we should agree in writing to split college costs up to XX amount or XY% of in-state school/community college.   

 

Would be a good place to start.

 

Also, consult a lawyer in your area for a quick check, but I suspect they won't allow him to have cs lowered because he chooses not to work.

Maxwell09's picture

Well if he can afford to retire then I don't see how anyone can tell him he can't. He is telling you 200$...is there any chance he is lowballing you in the hopes you will skip going through the courts and just settle for the 200$ or whatever number? I would be wary. I've dealt with so much deceit over BM not paying child support and her sneaky tactics to get out of paying anything (we have primary and have since SS9 was 2. I would speak to a lawyer or a case worker or whoever handles your child support agreement to make sure you are getting a fair deal. 

tog redux's picture

They can't tell him he can't retire - but the court can tell him he still has to pay full support at the rate he was prior. 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

He THINKS he can afford to retire, but he's in for an unpleasant surprise when he finds out how hard it is to live on one income.

Dude has obligations. How he pays cs isn't your problem.

SteppedOut's picture

Wow.... so essentially he thinks you should foot part of his retirement? Huh. Yet you are the one worried about sounding greedy? 

What a jerk. 

Lifer33's picture

What u think is fair, sounds amicable and reasonable. You've seen the amount he has to pay by law there is massively lower? so more than that is a bonus, whatever his circumstances. I'd probably air on the side of what others have said, you are worried about the financial impact on the kids, could we keep it towards the higher end if he can afford to pls? 

Livingoutloud's picture

He'll be stay at home dad with his baby with SM. It's all good and dandy but that's going to be on expense of kids he has with you. Doesn't seem fair. 

justmakingthebest's picture

Since they haven't told me that he was going to be a stay at home dad now, that came from our teenagers, this was my reply:

I guess I am confused on why he will only be making $2900/mo. I understand that is his retirement pay but he has a masters degree and 20+ years of military service. He should have no problem finding and starting his next career, especially moving back to the DC area with all of the government jobs....

When they come back in writing with him staying at home I will let them know that, while I understand that him wanting to stay home with their new baby sounds great, it doesn't mean that he can shove off his responsibilities to his older children. I will remind them that I never came back at him for more CS when he got his promotions, or when he moved to CA and due to BAH would have gotten substantially more. Also that when we adjusted last time, I agreed to take $300 less than what was on the calculator. 

I dont want to make it a big "thing" but CS should not be changed and if they insist we can go to court... which would suck because we haven't had a court fight in 10 yrs.

Livingoutloud's picture

Why are you addressing it as "he". Is message not for him? Is that for his wife? Why is it up to her? I'd only speak to him directly 

I am a bit confused on why someone making 2900 a month would only pay 200 in CS? Is 2900 after tax? Regardless are they saying he gets to keep 2700? Does his child with SM only costs 100 a month too?

When my DH was barely making much money he still was ordered to pay $800 in spousal support. What calculator is he using 

 

justmakingthebest's picture

I haven't even looked into what calculator they are looking at. His wife is the one emailing me, which is cool, we are usually the ones that work out schedules and stuff. I like her a lot, she is great to my kids.

 

 

Livingoutloud's picture

I get along with SM too and she is great but I'd be taken aback if she messaged me that CS will go down. Perhaps they see you as a pushover. And she might be the one driving this reduction from 1k to measly 200. 

justmakingthebest's picture

They came back and said that since they cant find day care for the baby and their other 2 kids are doing online school that he has to stay home.

I kind of want to reply that had the roles been reversed and our kids were still young enough to need child care for online school, I would have had to figure it out and still be expected to work and provide for our children.

I need better wording so I am not coming off hostile! Help!

tog redux's picture

Just say, I'm sorry, that sounds challenging, as it is for many families right now, but I can't afford to support BD and BS on my own, please plan to send the same amount of support as you have been. I really don't want to go to court over the matter, I hope we can solve this between us. 

BethAnne's picture

You could ask if he will be looking for a job once the kids are back in school and day cares open up and if they intend the cs amount to be lowered temporarily during home schooling or if it would be permanent lowering. I would also make sure that your ex is copied in on these emails and double check yourself the situation with the schools in the area they are currently in and the one they plan to move to so you know his wife isn't BSing you. 

IF...you can aford it and want to be generous, you could agree to a 2 or 3 month deferment of all or some of the cs payment while schools are not open and then the option to pay that back over a reasonable period of time in installments if a lump sum is too much for them. If they can aford to move though I would have thought that they should be able to budget a few months of cs while your ex does not work. If you do this though you need to be prepared to go to court for missed payments if they fail to repay you as agreed.

Livingoutloud's picture

This thread kind of makes me livid. 

if non custodial BM quit her job and refuse to pay CS (which does happen) she'd be called all kind of names on steptalk. Yet it's ok for a father to do that

If SMs on here started sending BMs letters on how CS is going to be going down, they'd be told they overstep and need to back off. Yet because BM is the one posting here it's all good and dandy and SM is being such a sweetie with her letters to BM. 

I think maybe since daddy quits his job to watch his baby, and SM is the one communicating it to BM and likely driving that idea, maybe SM should get a second job or better paid job and contribute to paying CS to OP

 

 

tog redux's picture

Are people saying it's okay? I missed that. I think it's ridiculous that they think they can just stop paying. 

I generally get frustrated on here with people who are upset that their DH has to pay BM child support, even if it's a tiny amount, because it "takes away from their kids". Um, the other kids existed first, he has to support them. 

still learning's picture

It sounds like he won't voluntarily pay what he was previously paying. As others have stated it would be best to seek legal counsel about this. What he has on his side is that he is retiring, he does need to care for his other children, he has other children which will be taken into the calculation, he pays travel costs and assumably insurance. $200 is a minimal amount do you have two children with him? If so $100 would be the minimum for each child.  
 

What you have in your favor is that he has been paying more (aka status quo) and that you can request that child-support be recalculated at any time. It is unfair for your children to have to suffer because he chooses to not work.

The reason y'all have been getting along so well is because you've been taking less than your children deserve and bending over backwards to be nice. It's time to look out for your children's best interest and quit worrying about what the ex thinks of you. It's obvious That he is looking out for his own best interest and not ALL of his children's.

tog redux's picture

I don't think voluntary retirement at 41 will be on his side at all. If he were 65, perhaps, but if people could get out of child support by retiring young, everyone would do it. 

DPW's picture

I'm sure if it went to court, they'd impute income regardless of his "I want to be a stay-at-home daddy" status. 

I would not back down. You are and have been completely fair to him. He's now trying to swindle you, in my opinion. Not cool. 

ESMOD's picture

Women tend to take less than they are entitled to because they want to be nice. Remember...every dollar he should be paying and isn't is one he is taking from your pocket. Is that nice?

Look, I sympathize with his daycare issues. But he isn't the only one who has to figure that out. Retiring at 41 is an easy way out and shirking his responsibility. So they have to figure out daycare... certainly with a vaccine schools won't be virtual forever. He is asking too much. What would he do if he was a single father... he would have to figure out how to take care of his kids...ALL of them. He chose to have more kids. He can continue to support them.

I would respond with sympathy over the child care issues but he still has a responsibility to care for ALL his children and voluntarily being unemployed is not going to be an acceptable excuse to reduce child supporting.   Point out that you have asked for less than he should have been paying for years...but you are not going to let him off the hook.  Explain that courts generally impute income at a level where someone could be earning when they choose to be unemployed...when their spouse can pay the bills etc... it is entirely possible the court will order more than he is now paying. You are willing to keep cs the same now... no guarantees on what a court will limit him to. He could end up with more obligations. 

Winterglow's picture

So, basically, he's claiming that he could never find a job that would cover the cost of daycare? Seriously? With his qualifications and work experience? Can't see that going down too well in court.