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Munchkin Fail-Gate Followup

CLove's picture

Thanks to everyone with wonderful and solid advice. Here is where we are today:

Her father threatened to take her lizard and bunny away as well as everything else. If her grades do not come up. I offered to work with her on things and she agreed because, as she told me "I will just shut down and not do anything, if my pets are taken away".

We texted back and forth a bit and she told me "I work best my own way, so I dont work the best with you standing over me."

I texted back "ok, sure, lets try your way, and see what you can get done by Friday!" Shes got almost 30 missing assignments currently.

I got her classroom login credentials. 

THEN today.

I attended her orchestra teachers office hours and she and I had a nice long chat. Apparently 50% of her class has done NONE of the work (Munchkin SD14 is one of those), and the other 50% get their assignments done on a regular basis. Shes made it INCREDIBLY easy to get an A in her class too, as she has explained it. The majority of the NONE students are freshmen. So, she is very empathetic. BUT there really isnt any excuses why shes not doing the work. Not one single assignment has been completed.

After looking through the gradebook - Munchkin is missing nearly 30 different assignments. Its overwhelming to look at. I think that shes just in over her head, not motivated, and being her own worst enemy as well as LAZY. Im torn in between letting things slide a bit and allowing her to do the minimum and being hardcore about EVERYTHING being turned in. From what the teachers tell me, the kids have until January to complete all the assignments. Its doable. 

I asked the teacher how she incentivises her kids to do the work. She shrugged her shoulders and said "well, BEFORE (COVID) I would take them to fun places, we would do performances...but now...they either do it or they dont."

Parents, Im feeling your pain right now.

 

Comments

notsurehowtodeal's picture

How would he actually follow through on taking away the pets? I realize that to an extent they are her "currency," but it would be pretty harsh to rehome them - is that what he meant? Not that I have a better idea, I'm just wondering if that is threat that he would really make good on.

I do admire your dedication to Munchkin and I think, at least for now, she seems to be worth the work!

tog redux's picture

I agree, threatening to take away her pets is over the top. She didn't murder someone - she's struggling with grades in a pandemic where lots of kids are struggling - and she passed everything with at least a C.

I feel bad for her - Mom's a total loon and useless and now Dad and SM are freaking out over one semester of mediocre grades, during an unprecedented period in all of our lives, when many kids and adults are struggling. 

Sorry, I agree that school is important, but this is just too much. Don't buy into the whole college thing, she can still be successful with one semester or more of a C average. 
 

If my parent ever took my pets over grades I'd still be holding a grudge. 

CLove's picture

He really struggled with Feral Forger - through Jr High and High school. I think that burned him out. It was probably a knee jerk reaction.

Im not so much freaking out as now Im a bit mad. 

Its not the passing/failing alone - its that she has ZERO chores. Her one and only job is school. And she is not doing the work. I just found out that she left her school laptop at our house the entire week shes been at her mothers. And this is after we had this discussion starting Tuesday and I was all about "ok lets see what you can do by Friday".

I guess nothing.

I dont think DH will do anything with pets, he was just lashing out.

tog redux's picture

I get that - but one of the things I've heard from people now doing their jobs at home is that for some, it's harder to get organized and get as much work done. Many people actually don't like working at home for that reason.  So it stands to reason that she, as a child, would have the same difficulties with a new system.  Might she be taking advantage, sure - but it has to be taken into consideration that this is all new and harder for her to do her work in the way that she usually does. 

 

ETA: Plus - she got Cs. She didn't fail anything, it's not time for DH to freak out.

CLove's picture

I think it was just a knee-jerk reaction. He was talking about selling the dragon and rehoming the rabbit. But he wont.

We shall see. Shes currently proving that I might have to give it up...see my newest post.

lieutenant_dad's picture

Did he apologize for his knee-jerk reaction? Is he getting any therapy or other help for his trauma related to Feral Forger?

If not, HE IS A PROBLEM. No argument can be made that he isn't. So long as he is aware, or can be made aware, that his actions are harmful TO HIS CHILD, he has an obligation to FIX HIMSELF for the betterment of his child.

tog redux's picture

Maybe it's just because I'm an unrepentant animal lover, but threatening to take away pets feels like emotional abuse to me. The pets aren't why she's failing, so it's just cruel and not helpful. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

Plus pets aren't rewards for good behavior, or least they shouldn't be. If you wouldn't award it as a reward, you shouldn't take it away as punishment.

Dads_Wife's picture

I always find it very manipulative when a child says, "well i will shut down if you take blah blah blah." I honestly would take her pets from her at this point. Pets are not a right, they are a priviledge (even as an adult) and it's about time she learned some responsibility. I have no patience for kids failing online school right now, especially in her age bracket. This is a good opportunity for children to learn some adaptability that is necessary in adult life, and as that teacher said, she has made it VERY easy to get an A. If this child was failing but handing in all assignments, I would agree, don't take her pets away, but she's not even BOTHERING with the work. That's disrespectful to the teachers who are trying their best with this situation. The least the child could do is try. I say pull the pets. She's manipulating you. (And by taking her pets I mean putting them in your room until she submits X amount of assignments in). And i also wouldn't let her tell me how she is goign to do her work or how she works 'better' without you around. She clearly doesn't work better without you around. Look where it got her. I'd move all of her stuff into the kitchen or a public space where I could keep a better eye on her.

lieutenant_dad's picture

You have to take into account that Munchkin is a freshman. Middle school still has a lot of handholding. High school is the first time many kids have real school "freedom" with responsibility. They aren't just entering a new grade; they're entering an entirely new school with new teachers and different expectations.

Plus, adults are less productive right now, too. Lack of socialization and lack of "perks" that come from being able to leave the house mixed with stress and worry are slowing us all down. If you're a kid, you're being hit similarly. The perks of going to school (e.g. seeing your friends, getting in-person praise for your work, having trips or fun activities to look forward to, awards nights) are gone. I can see why kids, especially kids that are in their first years of new schools, are struggling and falling behind. 

Add in, for Munchkin and many of the other SKs on here, either uninterested or downright crazy parents, unstable home lives (Munchkin has moved apartment to apartment frequently due to BM), and varying information about the pandemic (here, DH and I take it seriously, and I work in public health; ET and her husband called the boys "yahoos" when they wore masks in public), it's totally understandable why some kids are worse off than others.

Remember, most kids who fall behind in school aren't doing so because they are lazy. They do it because they lack structure in their lives. Many do better when they have the structure of school. But, when there is limited structure at both school AND home, it's no wonder kids fall behind.

And yes, I agree Munchkin was manipulating with her words. But, that's what she has been taught to do to get her way, and it has worked before. Threatening to take the pets was a low-blow to begin with since they are living beings, so I honestly think that should be a wash and a conversation about how threatening to take living beings is a low-blow, but threatening to pull even further away (I would put that in the same category as "threatening harm when none is intended) isn't fair or healthy, either.

Overall, Munchkin sounds depressed, much like many during the pandemic right now.

tog redux's picture

Exactly. Mental health issues have skyrocketed since the pandemic, in adults. Why do we expect kids not to miss a beat, when their entire way of managing school work has been changed overnight? Lots of former good students are struggling right now. 

CLove's picture

1. She cant do the art projects because her art teacher went on maternity leave and the sub wont let her do the assignments digitally on her notepad and she got rid of her pencils. 

2. She cant do the recording for her orchestra all year because she doesnt like recording herself.

All very much bs excuses.

SO, she also left her laptop at our house all weekend and therefore didnt get any of her work done. And didnt bother to tell me or her father. Honestly Im getting a bit frustrated. I get that shes overwhelmed and I get that she is struggling with distance learning, but thats just really out and out ---- I dont even know what.

lieutenant_dad's picture

So who is helping her tell her sub that she doesn't have pencils? Who is teaching her how to get over her fear of recording herself? Who is being the parent and saying "we sometimes have to do things we don't like"?

Munchkin has learned that giving excuses gets people off her back. It worked for BM. It works with DH. She's doing what she has been taught. If y'all want to see her act differently, then TEACH her through her struggles and excuses. You can be frustrated, but you can't punish or ignore new skills into someone.

lieutenant_dad's picture

Punishment likely won't work for Munchkin because she's already being punished by having to live with BM. I don't mean that to be funny; it's truthful. BM is a loon, as tog put it, who isn't stable and is abusive in some form or fashion to everyone in her life.

What Munchkin needs is structure. She needs someone to sit her down and work through this with her. She's likely so far behind at this point that she's overwhelmed, and just like you aren't going to magically get adults to become more productive when they're overwhelmed by tacking on punishment, you aren't going to het favorable results with a teen, either.

When YSS ran into this earlier this semester, DH sat down YSS and mapped out every missing assignment plus assignments due that week. Then, YSS parked himself in our living room (also DH's makeshift office) and did his schoolwork there. 12 hours a day for a week. He got nearly 50 assignments completed, and he was EXTREMELY proud of himself for getting it done mostly on his own.

Your DH needs to do something similar with Munchkin. 12 hours a day may be too much for her (once YSS had a plan, he just wanted to get it done), but mapping out the assignments that need to be done, keeping her in a space where she can't get distracted for hours on end, having scheduled breaks, AND doing a nightly check-in and marking assignments off her list may help with the overwhelmingly weight her assignments have on her.

Until someone sits down with her and comes up with a solution, she shouldn't be punished so gravely. She needs help, but being a stubborn teenager who has grown up with her parents (I'm adding DH into this) who have ignored her because her sister was always the problem, she's not going to ask from it. Ansd CLove, you could be SM of the Year and she STILL won't ask you because you're not Mom or Dad. You caring is nice, but it's not what she needs.

Your DH needs to get his butt into gear and sit down with his daughter to figure out a solution and tell BM that SD stays until she is caught up. If she wants to file contempt, let her. An extra week of Munchkin in your home getting out of the mental spiral she is in over schoolwork is worth it.

tog redux's picture

Yes. OP, Please don't minimize how hard remote learning is for some kids. The teacher herself said that half the class was struggling, that's not normal. Help her get caught up and learn to set limits for herself so she can do her best in this challenging educational environment. Harsh punishment will make it worse. 

ESMOD's picture

I would have to tell munchkin.. that "no offense, but we have been letting you do it your way for the past few months.. and this is where we stand today.. 30 missed assignments and failing two classes... Can you explain what you plan to do differently than you have done in the past several months?"

I kind of agree that taking her animals is a harsh step.. and honestly.. to a certain extent... this is something that she does need help mastering.. and it is not entirely her fault that the adults in her life waited until she was way over her head before trying to address it with her in a meaningful way.  I think both her parents and teachers (who aren't being more proactive to notify people and bring in support for these kids).. should share some of the blame for her current situation... 

So... Munchkin.. I understand, you don't want someone standing over you while you complete the work.. fine.  How about you spend two hours in the morning and see how much you can accomplish... put a really good effort in.. no social media.. just straight work.. let's say from 8am to 10pm.  Then... we can talk about what you were/were not able to get done.  how many catch up assignments have you completed at that point.. and what is a reasonable per day catch up rate going to look like.. and how do you intend to hold yourself to that?

Offering incentives for meeting goals.. say it is 5 assignments from her backlog per week plus current work.. if she does that.. she will get a special treat of some sort.. something for her animals.. some extra allowance.. a meal that she loves... a covid safe excursion...  I don't think taking pets is a good consequence.. even though they are important to her.. I think more along the lines of extra chores... loss of the freedom to 'do it her way without you looking over her back".  

I think it's ok to treat failure to perform in the future is going to mean she loses the right to say that "her way" works... and that she will have to submit to the adult's way.

Livingoutloud's picture

I'd say she performs relatively well taking in consideration her dysfunctional unstructured life and two uninvolved parents. She needs structure, parenting, mental health help to deal with chaos of her life. She doesn't have that.

Yes some kids have intrinsic motivation and don't need help how to get through in life. But not everyone is capable. She is young and she  needs help. Did anyone talk to her and music teacher about recordings and how to manage it? Did anyone talk to a sub about drawings and did anyone suggested new  pencils, they aren't that expensive. Did anyone looked at all her missing  work and helped her prioritize what's what. No. But she got threats of punishment and chastising and lashing out at. What kind of parenting is it? Take pets away? It's really sick.

So I'd say poor girl isn't doing as poorly as many would under the circumstances.

CLove's picture

Penciles and pens and erasure and sharpener.

MY questions is why did she not tell us anything????