You are here

BM is at it in full force; I fear for SD's safety!

Caitlin's picture

Wow. Things just keep getting worse and worse. BM called my fiance today at 4:00 to cancel their weekly Daddy & Daughter dinner (so what else is new?) and demanded to instead meet privately in person to discuss "some issues" because SD had had "a bad night" last night. My fiance insisted that if she needed to discuss something to please do it in writing. She threw her usual tantrum when she saw she wasn't getting her way, but he stuck to his guns and repeated that she should send him an email.

An hour later SD called my fiance in tears begging him to meet BM. (Typical BM behavior, using her kid as a pawn when my fiance won't do what she wants. This happens on a weekly basis.) He finally caved, but he told SD he would do it on one condition: if she would promise not to get involved and allow herself to be put in the middle of these disputes anymore. He told her he didn't want her to worry and stress about adult things and that all the emotional distress was too much for her to have to handle so it needed to stop.

So my fiance goes out there to meet BM and she brings her tape recorder, which is laughable because every time we have tried to record a phone call or a meeting, she screams and shouts "YOU DO NOT HAVE MY PERMISSION TO RECORD THIS CONVERSATION!!! TURN IT OFF! THIS CONVERSATION IS OVER! etc." because she doesn't want to have any record of her lies for future reference. Anyway, she sits down and lists all the things that SD would like for them to discuss in her upcoming schedule and then decides to finally drop the bomb.

She said that SD tried to commit suicide last night by jumping out her 4th floor window.

HELLO?! Wouldn't you lead off with that information? Better yet, wouldn't you call the father of your child and share this information the moment after it happened instead of waiting 24 hours?!

I am just sick with worry. My fiance is staying with friends over in that area because there are no more buses to our town for the night and I'm here at the house with our daughter asleep in her room. I'll just keep blogging as I get more information because I need to unload this somewhere!

Comments

Caitlin's picture

Ok, so apparently last night BM got SD into a state over her homework due the next day that hadn't been completed over her 10-day vacation and over the fact that she put the "wrong water" into the fish bowl. I don't even know what that means, but they fought about it. Violently. SD actually hit and bit BM during this fight. This is not the SD that I know! She is sweet and gentle and loving. I've never known her to act like this!

I don't know what was going on in that apartment to get her to that level of insanity but I have a feeling that BM is in one of her manic episodes. When she's manic she often works SD into a terrible state, doing crazy things and staying up way to late and stressing her out and usually what happens is SD ends up calling her dad in hysterics and he brings her back down within 5-10 minutes on the phone. That didn't happen this time. This time, SD went to the window and tried to take the screen off, screaming "I'm going insane! I want to die!" I'm crying just thinking about how awful this must have been for her.

This morning, BM sent SD off to school without a word about the antics of last night. At lunch, SD went to the guidance counselor (THANK GOD) and told her everything and skipped all her afternoon classes to cry on the couch in her office. The counselor called BM to tell her, but guess what? No call to the father! Why the hell not is what I'd like to know! They call the insane parent who is bringing on the child's suicide attempts but not the healthy parent who can provide a safe haven! Dear God!

BM or SD was calling my fiance from their home phone when he was on the phone with me telling me all this, so he had to hang up and see what they wanted. I am so glad I can just sit and write all this down because otherwise I would drive myself crazy sitting here waiting for more news and wondering if SD is ok.

We HAVE GOT to get her out of this sick and damaging situation with BM. I think she is going off the deep end. And by "she" I mean BM, but also unfortunately SD...

jlmtik164's picture

My heart is literary racing as I read Caitlin's blog. It makes me so furious to read about such a small child going through such trauma and still the BM cannot comprehend that I guess given her mental state. The court knew about SD's BM mental problems but still went ahead and gave her custody. And that is what the court calls 'in the best interest of the child.' I know it is so mean to say this, but it has come to a point where I feel the only way this judges will truly act in the best interest of such children is when they personally experience such a situation then they will become sensitive. Is it far fetched to think of suing a judge who knowingly gives primary custody to an unstable parent and then something bad happens to the child? I have never heard of that happening. Just my own thought because these judges feel they are untouchable and can get away with messing children's lives. Caitlin, i will say a prayer for your SD, your man and your self. I wish you all the best when you go to court to get full custody. I pray that the judge will be wise enough to see the little girl's cries of help and do what is right as a judge. Its not an easy situation to deal with especially with you being pregnant. We are all here for you my dear. Vent as much as you can to stay sane. I will be looking out frequently for an update and I'm hoping for some positive news.

New Stepmom's picture

Oh my goodness, that poor child! Just reading what I have seen you write about her, she sounds like such a sweet child! Her psycho mom is driving the poor girl crazy! So what is the next step going to be...to help her I mean?

Caitlin's picture

I've always been so amazed at how well she copes with her bipolar mother... I guess it's all coming to a head now. I think she's done coping.

SD's therapist recommended against going to Child Protective Services because she said it is likely that SD will just defend her mother and lie because she's so fiercely protective of her. She says we need to go to court and fight for custody. Pronto.

Caitlin's picture

So it was BM who called earlier, but SD kept getting on the other line to say things like "I'm going crazy! I'm mad! If you care about me at all, Daddy, you'll get your ass over here!" BM refused to let him come over; in fact, she bars him from even entering the lobby of her building, putting up the front that he's "dangerous" and "abusive" so he can't be trusted in her building. She makes him come pick SD up at the garage entrance of their building and makes him wait 15-30 minutes in a cold dark parking lot before she sends SD down to him. All part of her control tactics.

So, SD starts screaming "you better let Daddy come over!" over and over and BM actually GAVE IN. First time EVER. He has never seen the inside of their apartment. Now he's going over to help his poor child who is having a nervous breakdown at the age of 11. We had hoped it would be under happier circumstances, the day he would get to see where his daughter lives.

Apparently, SD's therapist is also on her way over to their apartment. I am so relieved to hear that SD will have help tonight! She will have her daddy and her doctor on her side to help her through this! She must feel so alone all the time, living with a bipolar loonie who drives her to insanity with nowhere to turn. Well, tonight she has somewhere to turn - thank goodness!

What judge can possibly in good conscience award a woman like this primary physical custody? This is SO WRONG!

New Stepmom's picture

Don't you just wish he could bring her home?? Man. I'm just speechless. And how are you coping with the stress? I know you've said you're pregnant...

meshel's picture

If BM truely suffers from manic depression, then their is no way she can care for her daughter properly,without guidance,and counseling, this incident says it all!! Has the father thought of pursuing custody, my husband had to do it, for similar reasons. It was a battle, but worth it all. Keep posting, and try to hang in there,I know it's tough. Meshel

Caitlin's picture

BM was diagnosed bipolar years ago and her psychiatrist testified to the court that she was disabled and couldn't work. She used this to her advantage twofold: to stick my fiance with alimony out the wazoo AND to imply that she is the "better equipped" parent because she doesn't work and can dedicate ALL her time to raising their daughter. Um, hello? How did no one judge her the "unfit" parent given that she's mentally ill!? How on earth did she use her mental illness as the reason she should have primary physical custody?!

New Stepmom's picture

Caitlin...I have to sign off now...I will be thinking of you and your family tonight and will say a little prayer for all of you! I really hope things work out the way they're supposed to and SD ends up with you guys. Look forward to an update tomorrow! Hang in there!!

Caitlin's picture

Yes, I want so badly for him to bring her home where we can provide a safe haven for her and help her work through her emotional trauma and return her to her normal happy well-adjusted state.

How am I coping with the stress? By coming here! On a night like tonight when I am completely helpless to "fix" or "change" the situation, the only way I can deal is just by purging on this blog. I'm so glad steptalk exists because otherwise, I honestly don't know what I'd do right now. I really can't call any of my friends and burden them with this. I know I could call my mother because she's been a part of this all along, but I prefer not to worry her since I don't have all the information yet and I'd just be putting her in the same awful position I'm in right now. It's just the waiting game. So I wait. And I write. And it's therapeutic!

Oh and yes, I'm 12 weeks pregnant and I certainly need to keep my stress levels at a minimum for the baby's sake, so I'm trying to just remain calm.

Hopefully my fiance will call again soon with an update. I hope he'll have good news.

idiosyncrasy's picture

I came into this late, but hopefully there is an update? Let us know what happened please.

This is horrible. Is there anyway that your SD's therapist can testify in court to BM's behavior, or at least attest to SD's. I think I would try to seriously look into this and try your hardest to get custody. This little girl needs a stable environment.

I'm praying for you.

Anne 8102's picture

Just catching up this morning and, wow, this is horrible! I am so sorry for what your family is going through. I wish I had some magic words that would turn this around for you guys, but just know that you're in our thoughts and prayers. Keep us posted! I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that you guys can get custody of this little girl.

~ Anne ~

lovin-life's picture

Wow Caitlin.....
This may bring it all to a head. Maybe things will start to change now that it has reached this point! I hope so...it'so sad that this child has come to this point....I have a son that age..and I just can't imagine...
Be strong... Smile

Caitlin's picture

Well I did three loads of laundry last night just to keep busy as I waited for the phone call. It finally came just before midnight. My fiance was with SD, getting ready to read her to sleep at her apartment so we only spoke for a moment.

He said that BM, SD, SD's therapist and he spoke for hours in the lobby of the apartment building and the therapist urged them to take SD to the psych ward where she would be safe. Well, BM refused and refused. The only reason I can think of is because she knows that having her kid admitted to a psychiatric hospital is a sure way to lose custody. Why else wouldn't you want your daughter to be cared for by medical professionals when she so obviously needs it?! She is such a sick woman.

At one point, BM ran off and disappeared because she wasn't getting what she wanted and SD freaked out really bad and said she wasn't going to the hospital without her mommy and it got really ugly. They have such codependency issues. BM is CAUSING all this, yet SD can't have her out of her sight. My fiance even told her what I had said: that I would pack the baby into the car and come get them both at whatever time of night if they wanted. SD had been saying all night that she didn't feel safe in her mother's apartment, so he told her she would be safe with us. Poor SD can't be asked to "choose" between her parents though, because although she liked the idea at first, ultimately she said she didn't feel safe in ANY home. The best place for her is the hospital right now anyway so I don't blame her.

So they left it that since it had gotten so late, that they would wait and admit her in the morning. Well, BM didn't actually agree to it, but this is what my fiance and the therapist decided together. My fiance's phone is turned off this morning, so I assume they are either sleeping in after such exhausting emotional turmoil or they're already at the hospital.

I'll keep posting when I find out more. I don't know how I'll get any work done today. I have a big meeting in 5 minutes and I have to lead it. I'm a little distracted to say the least! I hope I'll get through it ok. I'm just so worried about SD.

Anne 8102's picture

Refusing necessary medical treatment is neglect, if not abuse. If her doctor says she needs to be admitted and her mother refuses, then Dad needs to make it happen. Even if it means getting a "police escort," if you know what I mean. Once she's evaluated, I can't see that any mental health professional would agree that it's in her best interest to return her to that home with that mother as it stands now. Have him contact the lawyer and get temporary custody right away for when she's released from the hopsital, and file for permanent custody as soon as you can catch your breath. At the very least, any judge would likely order mediation and joint sessions with a court-appointed therapist, who would then report to the judge. If she's anything like my husband's ex, she will likely show herself during the sessions and that will find it's way to the judge via the therapist's report. In the meantime, hang in there and keep us posted. We're all here for you!

~ Anne ~

lovin-life's picture

Anne makes a good point. I don't know how the law can't be on your side this time..
In Canada..with adults for sure..if they are in danger..IE including risk of suicide..the police can forcibly remove someone and send them for a 'psychological evaluation'.

That may be too traumatic at this point.....BUT with this child's therapist on your side..along with the BM withholding treatment. It might be the time to make a custody move....but be very, very careful...that BM doesn't turn the tables on you. Take this opportunity to rally as many 'professionals' as you can.......to stand up for SD's best interests and witness BM's own mental state..and impaired judgement. Also get some legal advice..regarding what's happening...but lay low until you get some psychological feedback on SD....don't make things worse.

Seize this opportunity and this childs cry for help....and make it happen...she needs to get away from this womans influence!!!

Caitlin's picture

Not only is BM refusing medical treatment for her daughter, but when she had that sit-down talk with my fiance last night, she said that she had talked to SD's therapist and let her know everything that had gone on the night before. Well, that didn't sit right with me, because I know that the therapist would have immediately notified my fiance that his daughter was suicidal. I urged him to call her and keep her informed because who knows what nonsense BM fed to her, and come to find out, BM said to the therapist that SD had had "a bad night" and had hit and bit her during a big blow-out fight and DID NOT MENTION their daughter trying to jump out the 4th story window. Once the therapist heard this, she headed straight for a house call at BM's place because she really feared for SD's safety.

Withholding this kind of information from her child's doctor is inexcusable. I don't think that any judge can think that this woman has her child's best interests at heart. She is going to lie, cheat and steal through all of this and try to blame us for SD's breakdown, but I think the evidence is all right there.

I don't know what to do for the moment. My fiance did call this morning, but of course it was DURING MY MEETING! He left a voicemail that SD had woken up and they were about to call the therapist and hopefully make their way to the hospital. As for trying for temporary custody given the emergency situation, I don't even know where to begin. Without having any contact with my fiance (his phone is off because he didn't have its charger last night and the battery is almost dead) I can't do much of anything, but I want to get the ball rolling NOW!

New Stepmom's picture

So why don't you start making some phone calls of your own? You are in all ways one of her guardians. It would not hurt to seek some kind of advice - do you already have a lawyer? Have a friend that is in that field?? There must be something that could be done.

Anne 8102's picture

If it were me, I think I would just make a few calls, do some checking, whatever it takes to gather the info so that all of his options are laid out for him when he's able to take a minute to review the situation and make a decision about how to proceed. That way, he won't have to make any uninformed decisions. I know that where we live, you can do the paperwork yourself and get an answer within 24 hours re: temporary custody in an emergency situation. If you have a lawyer who knows a judge, you could conceivably have it done in a matter of minutes. I don't know how the system works where you live, but it's worth checking into. It wouldn't be permamnent, maybe only for a few weeks until a hearing can be set, but that gives you time to put out the immediate fire and set your long-term plan in motion. I know getting child protective services involved is a last-resort type thing, but they do have the authority here to take custody of children or place children temporarily with another parent or family member until the mess is straightened out. They may be an avenue to consider.

~ Anne ~

happy's picture

Wow.. Your poor SD.. Who knows what her ill mother has said to her about anything.
This little girl needs someone to take her and make a Safe and Happy enviroment for her. Her mother is obviously harming her not taking care of her.. Wow..
keep us up to date..
I am so very sorry to you and your family..

Loving thoughts of all of you..
Happy..

Caitlin's picture

I'm assuming they're at the hospital and he's too busy taking care of SD to be able to call. Periodically, I try his cell in the off chance that it's been turned back on, but no luck. I know he will call me as soon as he is able, but the waiting is unbearable.

I've been trying the best I can to be productive at work and I just blew off some steam at the gym, but my mind is still just chock full of terrible thoughts at what must be going on over there. I just don't know what BM is capable of - anything? - and SD is so fragile right now. If BM completely loses it in her manic state, she could take SD right down with her.

I've looked into some local lawyers, so at least I feel like I've done something useful. Until I speak with my fiance though, my hands are tied.

Thanks for all the loving thoughts, prayers, support and advice! It means so much!

OldTimer's picture

how tragic this is. I am soooooooo sorrry that you are going through this deal. Not much more that I can say because I think most everyone has covered it.... so hand in there.

We're here for you, so let us know what happens next.

Caitlin's picture

Here I've been worrying ALL DAY, wondering what the hell is going on, thinking SD was being admitted to the hospital, and my fiance just called and said that he's been with SD all day at her apartment (with BM I assume), SD's doing "fine", they're all going to grab dinner and then head over to the therapist's for SD's appointment. All casual, like they're going to hit the cinema together for a family film night!

WTF? You mean he's been by a phone all day and hasn't called me while I've been sick to death with worry over here? How could he keep me in the dark like that? No word for 7 bloody hours! Men!

So we only spoke for all of 30 seconds and BM and SD were within earshot, so he couldn't really say anything, but I have a thousand questions for him. Why didn't they take SD to the hospital upon her psychiatrist's recommendations?! Will they take her later or does BM still "refuse"? Have they just been enjoying a mini-vacation hanging out watching TV all day like a happy little "family unit" that BM continuously tries to re-create? Are they just acting like SD didn't try to end her life - twice?!

He needs to grow a spine, or some balls, or put his foot down, or do whatever anatomically correct thing it takes to take charge and get his daughter the help she needs and quit giving into BM! All this is speculation of course, because I have no idea what happened over there today, but judging by her past behavior, BM is hell bent on minimizing this so she won't lose custody and I believe that my fiance is allowing himself to be manipulated out of admitting SD to the psych ward. Let's just hope that the therapist will do the right thing.

I have this sinking feeling that SD "acted out" to get this very result: her parents together, all to herself, "like it used to be", all day and all night. She's been wanting her dad over there for ages because her mom is too much for her to handle. She has said to me point blank: "I love you and baby sister very much, but I just wish you didn't exist and my parents were together."

Well, she got her wish. For about 24 hours at least.

New Stepmom's picture

I know you are pissed! I would be livid!!! You have been so patient with him in dealing with this situation, but that is not fair for him to keep you in the dark like that. Where did he stay last night?? I'm sure BM has been eating this up. Girl, you need to seriously stick to your guns with this one - now there are more problems than just the safety of SD - how about respect for you? I'm really sorry to go on a rage like that, especially since I do not know your fiance because I am sure he is a wonderful man and loves you dearly - he probably just has the welfare of his daughter in his mind right now - but still...you should have been updated on a regular basis as to what was going on - especially since he's been sitting in an apartment hanging out all day.

Caitlin's picture

I feel selfish for being pissed - I mean, I should be worried about SD, right? So I'm glad to hear that you think that my anger is justified. It IS disrespectful to me, dammit!

And to answer your question, he stayed at their place last night. I have no idea of the "sleeping arrangements" since we have barely been able to speak since this whole ordeal began, but I will get the full scoop later.

New Stepmom's picture

You have been worrying about SD ever since 4:00 yesterday!!! With good reason, obviously, but just because she is having major issues does not give the fiance a free pass to not think about your feelings. I always say "put the shoe on the other foot". If I did something like this to my husband, OMG, he would have a sh*t fit!!! You're the mother of his baby girl and are expecting another - he had no right to leave you so sick with worry like that.

Interested to hear what happens next...thinking of you!!

Anne 8102's picture

But he is definitely being manipulated by not just the mother, but also the daughter. As to the sleeping arrangements, under her roof is flat out wrong. If the child was in such bad shape that she had to be with both parents, then she certainly should've been with both parents... but in the hospital, not in her mother's home. I think several boundaries were crossed and your anger is justified, not that you need me to tell you that. In defense Dad, though, just keep in mind that we all do dumb things and it's hard to think clearly and make good decisions when you're being played by two master manipulators... especially when they are your ex-wife and daughter. That poor guy walked into a trap. He never had a chance.

~ Anne ~

Caitlin's picture

When it comes to manipulation, SD learns from the master (BM if you couldn't figure it out - ha!) With the two of them working on my fiance without me there to back him up, he just crossed those boundaries left and right because with all that stress I don't think he had a chance in hell at making any sensible rational decisions.

Now I'm just getting angrier and angrier because it's 8:30pm and he still hasn't called me to give me an update since the 30-second phone call at 4:00pm. I guess they've been at a 4-hour therapy session? Or maybe they're finally at the hospital? Or maybe BM jumped off a cliff? Or maybe SD did? I wouldn't know because no one has kept me informed!

Anne 8102's picture

I know it's hard, but try to be patient and not get too angry. If this child is in crisis, then God only knows what's happening. They could very well have spent a couple of hours with the therapist, possibly another hour getting admitted into a hospital... the possibilities are endless and if he's like most men, he has a one-track mind and it's probably derailed right about now. Don't take it personally... you know it isn't that he doesn't love and respect you, it's not about being inconsiderate, it's just a totally impossible situation and he's at a huge disadvantage. It's two against one. Take comfort in this one thought: EVENTUALLY, THIS NIGHTMARE WILL END. It will, sooner or later, one way or another. Until then, take care of YOU, your little one and your little one-to-be. The rest will shake itself out in a matter of time.

~ Anne ~

OldTimer's picture

I squeezed in more time, because I am keeping track of this post...

One thing, I think that you should have been physically part of this new development all the way too as BIOMOM mentions. I mean, this was an EMERGENCY. I know you mentioned something earlier about not waking the daughter... but you know what... the child will sleep and I'd be dialing everyone and anyone that I was in driving distance too, to drop off that baby (It's AN EMERGENCY) and bee-hiving it over to that apartment. Hell, I'd be knocking on my neighbors door if I had too. You also mentioned that you didn't want to burden your friends? Um... are they really your friends? Any friend of mine would absolutely have no problem with me needing alittle help sitting in an EMERGENCY. Or your mother even, yes, everyone would get worried, but like you have stated, once you get the info, you'll call them... you know you would, since your fiance doesn't. (Men tend to be quite linear in their thinking anyway.)

And I also want to say, don't deflect the issue about petty things such as where he slept. Instead, be sure to stay on the subject, because it's times like these were stress levels are really high, and naturally, you're overwhelmed, you start to over think things, over analys and before you know it, you'll gone and convenice yourself that your next door neighbor is a serial killer! So, honestly, I'd be sticking to your guns about how SD is, what exactly happened, and not get wrapped up in other stuff. Just let it go. That will just compound the issues even more. Once things have settled down, and things are moving in place with SD, then MAYBE revisit the subject more rationally. Making sure that your fiance understands that you felt completely left out of the process. It is totally understandable to feel that way, and you should have been involved. Next time, and unfortunately, it may happen again, just be prepared to take action. Don't get caught up in any fighting, if any, but merely to be there as a support for your fiance and SD.

Caitlin's picture

And in hindsight, I realize I should have asked a neighbor to stay with my daughter so I could've driven my ass over there and been a part of all this. I guess one reason I stayed home is because I thought my presence would just escalate BM's irrational manic behavior and cause SD MORE distress instead of helping matters. The other reason being my fiance was COMPLETELY INCOMMUNICADO so I didn't even know if they were at the apartment or the hospital or Timbuktu, so I wouldn't have even known where to go.

As for not wanting to burden any of my friends, that's just the way I am. Of course my friends are very supportive, I just feel like they must get tired of hearing about all the damn drama that BM creates. I feel like they're all thinking "ok, enough already! File for custody and quit bitching!" None of them have ever said anything like that, I'm just paranoid, I guess. (A little like Fearless in that respect...?)

I didn't want to call my mom and ruffle her feathers because I was actually afraid she'd interfere and it would just make it worse. She's been threatening to call CPS for months now and I thought she might take matters into her own hands, and frankly it's not her place. SD's therapist recommended against calling CPS, so if she had gone ahead and done that anyway, it could've led to even bigger problems. We're walking on eggshells here as it is.

As far as him sleeping over there, that's the least of my concerns right now. Yes, it crossed a major boundary, but he was just doing what he thought was best for his daughter. He was fed to the wolves last night - a master manipulator and her sidekick, little miss manipulator in training. Honestly, without me there to support him, he just caves, caves, caves. I can't blame him though. BM knows exactly how to play her cards and SD learns right quick from Mommy Dearest.

You know what saddens me the most? I bet that nothing changes as a result of this episode. Not a damn thing. BM will continue to get away with murder, SD will continue to live in hell on Earth with BM, and my fiance and I will sit idly by and watch as her life is destroyed by a madwoman.

One thing's for sure though: I will NOT be shut out like this again. And if I have anything to do with it, we WILL save SD from her mother. It'll just be a long hard (expensive) battle.

Anne 8102's picture

Hold on, Caitlin, aren't therapists or any other mental health professionals required under law to report suicide attempts or suicidal ideations to someone?! I don't know if they have to make a police report or what, but surely there's some guideline that mental health professionals have to follow in cases like this. I would definitely follow up with this therapist and find out if she's going to make a report to CPS for the general situation and also if she has to report the suicide attempt to anyone, like the police. If she didn't report it and one of her clients was successful in their suicide attempt, she could be charged as an accessory, believe it or not. (At least in my state, not sure about where you live.) At the very least, she could be sued out the wazoo. If this therapist DOESN'T report the incident, then maybe it's time for a second opinion.

~ Anne ~

Caitlin's picture

I told my fiance about this and he is going to talk to the therapist about it tomorrow. Good point. I don't know what the law is in our state.

OldTimer's picture

You know Anne, you are right about that! Good point!

Caitlin, I don't know what state you live in, but this might help you, just alittle information I found, it's all over the web but this seemed pretty easy to read:

http://kspope.com/licensing/index.php
http://kspope.com/suicide/index.php

Do you know if the therapist is a Psychologist (Dr. Jane Doe, PhD.), a Psychiatrist (Dr. Jane Doe, MD and can prescribe medication), a Marriage and Family Therapist (Jane Doe, MFT or M.A.), or a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (Jane Doe, LCSW), or any other title not listed here? You can find out by her Title and license. There is a difference in all of these, and it might go to understand why some of the hesitation is going on by the therapist. In my opinion, I think CPS should HAVE been called regardless of what she felt... this really sounds like it is quite out of hand, in all respect, I just think they should have been notified to push the issue further. I don't think that by being passive in this situation helps at all, and certainly an appointment with the therapist doesn't seem to be making much progress. How long has your SD been seeing her? Have you seen her make any progress? How do you like this therapist? Just curious...

There is a difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist, which are the two most widely recommended 'doctors' in Behavioral Sciences.

Psychologist spend 4 years in graduate school after college, and have gotten a doctoral degree in psychology. Sometimes they do post doctoral or fellowship work in specialty areas of psychology. A psychologist can do extensive psychological testing that a psychiatrist is not trained to do.

Psychiatrist spend 4 years in medical school after college, as well as 4 years in residency training, practicing his/her specialty under supervision. Sometimes they do post doctoral or fellowship work in specialty areas of medicine. A psychiatrist can prescribe medications, order laboratory testing and authorize certain other treatments that a psychologist is not able to do. Both can offer psychotherapy.

Marriage and Family Therapists (MFTs) are relationship specialists who treat persons involved in interpersonal relationships. They are trained to assess, diagnose and treat individuals, couples, families and groups to achieve more adequate, satisfying and productive marriage, family and social adjustment. The practice also includes premarital counseling, child counseling, divorce or separation counseling and other relationship counseling. Marriage and Family Therapists are psychotherapists and healing arts practitioners licensed generally by the state. Requirements for licensure include a related doctoral or two-year master's degree, passage of a comprehensive written and oral examination and at least 3,000 hours of supervised experience.

Clinical Social Workers provide mental health services for the prevention, diagnosis, and treatment of mental, behavioral, and emotional disorders in individuals, families, and groups. Their goal is to enhance and maintain their patients' physical, psychological, and social function.

If you have simply issues and just mainly have frustrations, the MFT and LCSW are fine, but for more serious issues, Phd and better yet, Psychiatrist MD is really what you need.

How do I know all of this... because it's (was) my job.

Caitlin's picture

She's a psychiatrist, MD. SD's been in therapy with her for a year next month. BM chose her specifically just to screw us up because her practice doesn't accept insurance and she ran up a $3500 bill that she then presented to us 7 months later. (That really burned us up. If we had that kind of money lying around, we'd have retained a lawyer ages ago, but I digress.)

Interestingly, the therapist said at first, "hey, I'm expensive. SD doesn't need a psychiatrist, she needs counseling on how to deal with the divorce etc, but you can find that elsewhere, covered by insurance." At this point, I think it's unanimous that she does need a psychiatrist, so she'll be sticking with her, and luckily we figured out a way with our insurance to be reimbursed for 50% of the out of network expenses and she actually waived the other 50%! She said she just wants what's best for SD and she doesn't want financial hardship to be the reason for stopping therapy.

Speaking of which, BM had pulled SD out of therapy for a month or two in the fall (September/October) because she was pissed she wasn't getting her way - not because she couldn't pay. When the therapist figured that out, she realized she had to tread lightly with this woman, or she would rip her out of therapy again, and what good would that do anyone? We don't live in her area, so it would be difficult for us to go behind BM's back and continue to take SD to therapy in that event. Besides, if she caught wind of that, who knows what she'd do?

Anyway, SD had made excellent progress and then she regressed in the last month or so since we announced we're having another baby. Her mother is NOT happy with the news and makes sure everyone knows it, so she's feeding SD a bunch of poison that we'll forget about her with our new baby so SD is acting out and seeking attention. Of course, this is OUR fault because we're having a baby, not HER fault for making SD crazy over it.

OldTimer's picture

Okay, I think I can breath a little better. I was little worried because this totally calls for a Psy. MD. LOL. I was sorta afraid of what therapist was handling this, and thinking in my head... UH NO by the sound of everything.

See, I work for a major insurance company and it was my job to make sure that all MD's and allied health practitioners (physical therapists, mft, lcsws, anybody that is not a Medical Doctor, etc) were licensed and properly credentialed and insured. That meant, I fully researched their applications, their licenses, their credentialing paperwork, their resumes, insurance, the school they attended and residencies, validated ssn and/or tax ID information, Fictious Name Permits, their corporation status if incorporated and their articles... even their home, and business addresses- criminal records, if any, and/or felonies. (They don't get in the network, let me tell you.) You name it, I checked and verified it. My job was to KNOW them.

So, believe me, I have seen my share of phonies, baboons, and just scratch your head, what? 'Therapists' out there... they are by the way, the WORST people to work with. I mean, people, if you see more than one title behind a person's name... USUALLY, that is to fluff their status in the public eye, but the state or insurance company USUALLY only recognizes one of those titles... which ever they either chose to be 'assigned' with or which ever came later. (Usually the more educated one.) Not always true, but most often is. At least in my state this is true.

Caitlin's picture

So, here's a recap of the day. BM got SD and my fiance up at 7:30am to "discuss the situation" when they hadn't even gone to bed until 1:30am. Can someone say manic? SD had some breakfast and went back to bed on and off until noon and BM and my fiance tried during this time to have a conversation about what to do about helping SD through this situation. Tried to have a conversation about this, because all BM wanted to talk about was things like "when you left us" four years ago, or "why can't we just be friends", or "do you like me?" and my personal favorite, "SD is greatly distressed by you being with Caitlin." Blah blah blah. She is an expert at avoiding the subject at hand, placing the blame on others and making it all about her!

Well, my fiance insisted that they call the therapist to see about taking SD to the hospital. BM refused. They continued to talk. He finally called the therapist against her wishes and she ran off for an hour or so and finally came back. Anyway, the therapist just said if SD if fine, they can wait until their appointment that was already scheduled for that evening. And SD was fine because her Daddy was there to help her through the rough times.

So, once BM came back and calmed down they played Monopoly and watched Harry Potter all afternoon until it was time to go. Like a storybook happy family. What a fairy tale! In fact, SD tearfully admitted in the therapy session in front of both her parents and the therapist that today was "the perfect day". (Notice what I posted earlier about this?!) And the therapist quickly reminded her that it was a fantasy and that it had cost everyone A LOT. How many people had to suffer to create a falsified "perfect day"?

Poor SD just desperately wants both her parents and me to be civil to one another and to accept each other and get along and be friendly (which we want to, but BM is incapable of!) I think she thinks that the only way to draw everyone together is in a crisis, so she created one.

In the therapy session, BM finally agreed to work together (which I'll believe when I see!) but at least she is on record as agreeing. She has never agreed to this before. So it's a step. She has agreed to attending co-parenting classes and to meeting once a month to discuss SD's scheduling. All big steps in my book because she has consistently flat-out refused in the past.

The part that's missing is SD NOT LIVING THERE WITH THAT MADWOMAN ANYMORE! We will get all our ducks in a row and sue for custody when the time comes because this cannot go on any longer. She's suddenly all "cooperative" because she knows she could lose custody. Well, it's too late sweetheart. The damage is already done. Unfortunately, she doesn't see it that SHE is the one doing the damage and the damage is being done to HER DAUGHTER who she supposedly loves!

Oh and about last night, my fiance slept on the floor next to SD's bed, holding her hand. He read to her for hours until she could relax and fall asleep. She just really needed her Daddy because she just couldn't cope with her mom on her own anymore. He did successfully calm her down, so he did what he needed to do. I'm not worried about that.

I'm spent. I just wanted to update you guys since you've been with me all the way on this, but I'm afraid I'm just rambling now. Time for bed for me! More later...