Lying, Manipulating and Ignoring
DH and I are slowly coming to the end of our rope with SS now 10. I will just flat our tell you everything that happened the last few weeks and you let me know what you think.
3 weeks ago DH logged onto the school lunch account and noticed it was negative $52. We put money in there at the start of the year and were thinking it might be low and maybe short a few bucks. We look at the log and notice SS was getting breakfast like 3 to 4 times a week. He is also getting a snack at lunch pretty much every single day.
He told me about the breakfast at school at one point, and I asked do you want to eat there he said no and i sad good because you can eat here and it is cheaper. We also said at the begging of the year one one snack a week. He knew this rule and when I asked about his lunches before we found out about the shortage he lied to my face and said he was only getting one snack a week.
Needless to say he got in trouble, no electronics till he earns them back, that includes no watching tv. Also to teach him the value of money and we do not have a lot he had to pay us the money back. He got some from his birthday and lost it right away.
One week goes by this past Friday we were going to give him back watching tv. I told him as I dropped him off ask daddy when you get home if you can have electronics back but that does not include video games you did not earn those back yet. He skulks off and seems grumpy oh well. I get a text at work from DH asking if I told SS that I said it was ok for him to play video games. I said no, also DH and I discussed it that morning before he left. SS thought he would be able to get away with telling daddy I said it was ok because I would not be home that evening. He lied to his dad and ignore me. Guess what he still has no video games or tv.
Now last night I get home and find out he has a book project due tomorrow. He has known about this project for weeks and also knew he needed to go on-line and fill out the form and turn it via on-line. DH told him weeks ago to bring his book home. (they read the book in class). He knows the rule school work comes first, he did not forget about the project he simply decided that he would rather play, watch tv, and football all came before his school work. Now he is in even more trouble.
DH and I have tried the whole repeat till we sound like a broken record, tried taking things away and giving them back, threatened to take his sports away if his attitude did not improve. We are just at a lose at this point. It seems like SS just thinks he does not have to listen to us and do what he wants. I know some of it is age, I do. He is 10 and still seems to have a total lack of appreciate for what he has. He seems to think he is just entitled to all this stuff.
Beyond frustrated at this point. It seems like we will never be able to undo all the bad behaviors that were ignored and allowed for 8 years before we got together and moved into our own home.
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Teaching kids the value of
Teaching kids the value of money, works better with actual money. Grown men and women are in major debt because of credit. Can't kids pay cash at school, anymore? (I honestly don't know, I don't have kids and these lunch accounts were not a thing when I was in school)
Hm...Idk how much is age. I'm
Hm...Idk how much is age. I'm just going off my experience with my skids, but I've been in SD9 and SS12's lives for almost 3 years now, and we never had to deal with any of this. Sure, SS12 especially will occasionally tell small lies, but they mostly listen to us. I would have a hard time dealing with what you are...sorry you are having a hard time with him!
I'm surprised Dad didn't get
I'm surprised Dad didn't get a heads up on the school meal shortage long before now. School in my district starts getting hysterical when a kid only has less than $10 still remaining in account.
If you cant trust him to eat what and when is your rule on school meals, start packing his lunch. Breakfast at home, lunch in packed bag. Talk with him about it though. Why did he feel he could just ignore what he was told he is allowed to do and not do? In the kid's head he may be more concerned with eating with a buddy breakfast at school than listening to SMom and Dad. He may feel rushed in morning to eat at home, or he may be just too lazy to fix his own breakfast at home and wants the type of food at school you don't have at home. Which, of course, none of that excuses ignoring the house rule on his school meals, but it may help you and Dad get closer to knowing perhaps what small changes you can do to compromise what he's looking for. I mean you can stick a silly snack in his packed lunch likely cheaper than the school sells one for.
Some of the kids here run into the lunch room for breakfast to sit with friends, but they've brought their own banana and yogurt (for example) . As long as kids aren't making troubles , school usually doesn't care if kid is actually buying their food or not.
They get the breakfast and
They get the breakfast and eat in the classroom. He get what he wants to eat at home. I buy the stuff he likes for breakfast and I vary it up so he does not get bored. He gets plenty of time to eat he is not rushed at all. I fix his breakfast every day, kinda. I put out a bowl of dry cereal he cant reach. He gets himself up to his alarm goes out pours milk, grabs a yogurt, sometimes I give sliced fruit. Sometimes I make cheese omlette or waffles with peanut butter on them.
I am not packing his lunch I already pack mine and DH everyday usually leftover not too hard. I know me packing his lunch would not be a punishment for him he likes when I do it sometimes.
It's an accountability to pack your lunch
Why aren't you all teaching how to pack his own breakfast/lunch each day? It doesn't have to fall to you or your DH.
Did you not read the part he
Did you not read the part he can not reach the cereal or the bowls. I literally set out a bowl of dry cereal i got get ready. He gets up while I am getting ready I walk out he is sitting eating his cereal with milk he poured, and a yogurt he grabbed out of the fridge. I am pretty sure I am not doing that much for him. As him packing his own lunch, well that would mean him getting up even earlier, he is already up at 6:30 am with bed time of 8. He is a kid that needs his sleep, trust me I know this. He gets himself ready.
I think a lot of this is his age
The playing you and DH against eachother is par for the course and needs to be called out. He's lying when he's afraid he'll get in trouble, which means that you guys would be wise to back off on the gas just a hair. At 10, he's preadolescnt and his job is to start pushing boundaries.
My guess is that he isn't connecting that his lunch account uses actual money and that you can see what he's spending. That said, if you all weren't logging into his lunch account to see what he was doing before now, the overspend is on you. I don't think it's fair to make him reimburse you, either. I think the loss of electronics is perfect.
He knew that the account cost
He knew that the account cost us money we have had the conversation with him about it last year when he kinda did the same thing. He did not get in trouble at that point because we didnt know and he didnt understand. We say down start of this year and said same rules apply you only get one snack a week. We do not have alot of money so be careful. He also knew the breakfast cost money he told me it did. So yeah kinda his fault that he spent all that money when he knew the rules.
If he had an issue last year
Why weren't you guys checking his account all along?
A 10 year old can't be expected to self-regulate on that level. If it didn't happen within the last 10 minutes, a 10 year old isn't likely to remember. Heck, my (bio) almost 13 year old is amazingly mature, but she doesn't even remember what she had for lunch, let alone what it cost.
And others are right, 8 years of bad habits will take quite awhile to get fixed.
He can be expected to follow
He can be expected to follow the rules in our home. It is not really about self regulating it is about following our rule. We put money in at the beginning of the year and we do check it about once a month. We make sure we put enough in there to cover a month worth of lunches and the once a week snack. We trusted him to follow the rule and he didn't.
I think you're setting him up to fail.
To me, this isn't about rule-following, it's about unreasonable expectations.
As I said before, I completely understand your need to control costs, but a once a month check in on what is essentially a credit account for a kid isn't appropriate for a 10 year old who for 8 years has been allowed to have horrible habits. Heck, I check in on DD's lunch account well more than that, and I'm not concerned about what she's spending.
Since him using the account isn't working, take it away. Give him cash. Cash is finite and he would know if he did or didn't have it to spend. The account is convenient, but there are trade-offs.
Was SS still eating breakfast
Was SS still eating breakfast at home on the days he was secretly purchasing breakfast at school? Or was he not eating at home in the morning and no one noticed it nor asked him why he wasn't eating?
I eat breakfast with him at
I eat breakfast with him at home 4 days out of the week at home. I know he is eating I see him eat it all. He likes what he eats. He eats plenty to get him through to lunch around 11.
8 years is a long time for
8 years is a long time for bad habits to set in place. Be firm, maybe write the rules out and post them in his room and post them some other place he can see them. At 10 you can afford him to fail in class. Teach that lesson before he gets to high school and it all counts. He might need a strict schedule set by his dad to make sure he gets done what he needs to get done. Although its nice to hand it over to the kid to figure out, SS probably can't so needs to done for him. Once its all done, then he can have a bit of free time to do something he likes. If he only gets 5 minutes, so be it, its on him. Tomorrow he might get more if he works harder. Time management is a life skill that needs to be taught all thru childhood. It comes natural to some more than others.
Think of it more of a teaching goal (for launching at 18) than a frustating personality flaw in SS. That's how I stayed sane with my older bios.
This is how SD lost her lunch
This is how SD lost her lunch account. Now she has to settle for whatever we provide at home, and remember to pack it.
I love how everyone has
I love how everyone has commented on his lunch but any feedback on everything else. We are at a lose some what. We have tried talking and being nice and understanding, tried taking things away, tried making him do more chores and work around the house, tried incentives. Like you behave the next several weeks you can go to theme park with you aunt. What else is there at this point? Do we keep staying the course in hopes things improve? I am not sure what will work with this kid. He still gets what he wants all the time. It is not from me or DH. We told people not to buy him a switch this past x-mas we got ignored. He wanted a fit-bit for b-day, aunt never consulted us when she got it and he got one. Literally he has no need for one. As much as we punish and lay down the law outside forces knock us back down. Everyone tells me not to cut off the family but they are not helping with this issue either.
Saying school work comes
Saying school work comes first works great if you’re talking about daily reading and math but it’s too vague in terms of projects. Why did his dad let him mess around watching football for weeks without verifying that he completed his work if that’s the rule? Next time I would sit down with him and look at the project together and break it down into manageable chunks with deadlines for each one and check his progress along the way. If he misses a deadline he does nothing else until he catches up to where he needs to be.
But when you’re at the point where he’s sheepishly telling you it’s due tomorrow and he hasn’t done anything, that’s a great time to show empathy but leave the problem on his shoulders where it belongs. When you blow up and lecture and worry about how he’s going to get it all done you’re taking ownership when you don’t need to. Instead maybe just try saying, “Oh man that is a really big problem but I’m sure you’ll think of something.” and then go about your business. If he begs you for help you can firmly but politely say no and if he won’t stop crying/begging/whining he can spend the rest of the night in his room.
He doesn't watch football he
He doesn't watch football he plays football. That ended this past weekend. He gets ready and wants to be there early so he can play with his friends.
He has a project due every marking period and the teacher sent a thing home saying they would work on the first one in class. I guess that just meant reading and maybe I read it wrong. SS knew for the last several weeks that the project work sheet was available online and he could have been working on it way before now.
I blew up but after all the stuff this past several weeks I blew up. I apologized for yelling and getting loud. I am not helping him that much with the project this time. I did have to tell him that he needs to ask his teacher if he can hand in paper report because we do not have a computer at home. Had I known we could have gone to my parents this past weekend and worked on it. Oh well.
I did look over his first draft last night as he did it less than an hour and I said you sure you won't get an F. I read it and simply said yup that is a big fat F right there. Have fun turning that in. He sat down and started redoing it. He is asking me for help on words and I say sound it out and figure it out. I know he is still not going to do well. I honestly am at the point I do not care and let him get bad grades. Let's face it he will have consequences for that too. He has dug himself a deep hole and now needs to figure out how to get out.
If he gets a F so be it.
If he gets an F so be it. That’s a good natural consequence for procrastinating. He will learn from that F. The only thing he’ll learn from you showing all kinds of anger and making snide comments about how he’s going to fail is not to ask you for help.
True, I let up once I calmed
True, I let up once I calmed down. He still asked me for help I am just not giving it like I usually do. Hopefully it will be a good natural consequence to let him do poorly or fail.
It’s so hard to learn how to
It’s so hard to learn how to separate ourselves from our kids. I recommend Parenting with Love and Logic, it’s helped me a lot with my kids. I still have moments though. Like for instance right now it’s Red Ribbon week and my girls don’t give a crap about the different theme days. I found myself arguing with my 7 year old yesterday to please wear her red dress bc it was Red day. She wanted to wear something completely different and not Red and I was getting ticked off. I had to stop and really think about it and I realized that I was creating a conflict over something totally ridiculous in the grand scheme of things.
I have caught myself doing
I have caught myself doing things like that too and have to stop myself in those moments. Still trying to figure out what is best. Maybe he is acting out because he is not the center of the world anymore. Trust me he still gets alot of attention.
I am starting to think of taking him to talk to someone. It has been a year and half and he is doing this stuff. Starting to think he needs to earn everything he has at this point. Wish I could take everything out of his room and he would have to earn it all back. I wont do that.
He lost 50 bucks to us. Didn't really matter because he got 80 more for his birthday this past weekend. His grandparents bought him a gift while here like two weeks ago and still sent him stuff, plus money for Halloween. They never did that before. Should we start having conversations with grandparents and relatives about if you give him stuff or money we as parents will dictate what happens to it. Money goes directly to the bank till he earns it. Please limit what you spend he is 10 and does not need a 120 dollar Fitbit.
What do you do?
When he messes up, have you
When he messes up, have you tried waiting several days to issue a consequence so you’ll really have time to think it over? For instance, with the $50 he handed over it probably didn’t mean a whole lot bc not only had he not earned it to begin with but he also knew he had more money/presents coming since it was his birthday. I know there’s the fear of a kid thinking they got away with something if it’s not addressed right away but you could have said “I feel like you haven’t been honest about your purchases at school and this has cost an amount of money I’m not happy with. I’m going to think about how you can repay me, I’ll let you know in a few days.” You could spend that time making a work chart, finding a volunteer opportunity for him, etc. Also by the time you do have the conversation you’re calm, no heat-of-the-moment lectures or unrealistic threats or yelling.
As far as the lying, it’s pretty normal for people to do that to get out of tight spots, even kids do it. That doesn’t make it acceptable but you also don’t need to worry quite yet that he’s destined to be a master manipulator. With my own kids I never ask them why they lied, 99% of the time I already know they did it to save themselves or make their life easier. I just tell them that dishonesty drains my brain and now I don’t have enough energy to let them play the tablet this week, go to their friends house, take them to the movies like we’ve been planning, etc.
Thank you I was hoping at
Thank you I was hoping at some point someone would give me another thing to try with him. I will try this next time and see what happens.
He did lie to save himself I do get that. I really wish I could get him to volunteer but majority of places I have looked up you need to be 13. I would love to show him the value of giving back and how so many do not have nearly as much as we do. I keep checking things and hope something comes up soon.
You just had to bring up aunt
You just had to bring up aunt buying him gifts you don’t approve...
Kid needs to be more closely monitored re food and homework. Clearly he isn’t good monitoring himself. So you can’t really leave him to his own devices and then punish when he can’t keep up. Check his account and his homework more often.
He also might be getting more food because he is hungry. Might want to eat more. He is growing. When you pack your lunch, pack his.
Punituve style of parenting rarely works. It doesn’t work for your SS
you don’t have any computer at home at all?
I have a tablet that is
I have a tablet that is really expensive and mine. He has a tablet, DH has a tablet, we have two laptops that do not work. So no we do not have anything he can type up his homework on easy. We tried last year and the results were OK but hard.
I get monitoring his food but he flat our broke a rule and proceeded to lie to my face about it. That is not monitoring that is disobeying. DH checks his homework every single day. This project is an ongoing thing and he does not have assignment book. We have parent teacher conferences coming up we will see what happens there.
He can keep up I know this kid his a just choosing to not follow the rules in our home. I pack leftovers from the night before usually. I can not pack him leftover, I literally have to buy more food for our house and make a sandwich and pack him something totally different. He likes when I pack his lunch so where is the consequences.
You might be right punitive is not working but we have tried other methods. I brought up his family buying stuff we do not approve. They do it all the time they spoil the crap out of him. My mom does to but at least she talks to me and takes listens to me about stuff. She respects me and DH.
We have tried reward, or doing manual labor. I wish I knew how to explain it. It is literally like nothing works for this kid. I told him he will lose baseball this spring and not be able to play if things to do not improve nope that did not work. We reward him for good things he does. He just does not seem to care or connect there are consequences for your behavior. There is this blank look about him, he is upset for a hot minute but than it is like whatever. I think he does not care because he knows he will get something at some point because he always gets stuff and things. I am not blaming the aunt but she gets a lot of free stuff from her work and comes over all the time with a huge bag of stuff for him to play with or wear. He could have been acting up all weekend and when she comes for dinner there ya go. My parents have done it too.
He is smart kid so he see lately there is no real punishment. IDK really DH and I are baffled by what to do.
You again seem to be more
You again seem to be more concerned with punishment and consequences than anything else. Why is it a problem to buy food or make a sandwich? School lunches are too small, the kid is hungry hence he buys a snack. If he gets up at 6:30 and next time he will eat will be 11am, he is a growing boy, he is hungry. I am kind of appalled here.
I understand it’s not good that he is lying. But you just said you were yelling at him over some homework. So I’d personally lie too if I knew I’d be yelled at. Or punished.
I do recommend parenting classes.
He is not hungry. He was
He is not hungry. He was getting the breakfast because all the other kids were. I know what he eats for lunch and our school gives plenty of food for lunch more than he eats at home usually.
He can manage on the weekends to go 4 to 5 hours without eating I think he can manage at school as well. You can be appalled but you also have not been reading things. We no where near starve our kid. He eats a decent sometimes even large breakfast. On Thursdays he likes to eat at at the daycare we drop him off at. He does not eat at home. I know what time they eat there half hour to 45 minutes later his was eating at school as well.
Also during all this he kept saying he was not that hungry come dinner time. I didn't realize why just figured ok he is not that hungry but he still ate something. Now I know why because he was eating all day long.
I just do not want to buy more food than I already do and I do not want to sit there every morning packing him a well balanced lunch when I know he can get one at school. Pretty sure just a sandwich will not be enough. I need to back carrot sticks or fruit, I still know that is not enough. Now I need to pack some fruit snacks or gold fish, or cheese sticks, or yogurts. It is not as simple as just throwing a sandwich in a bag. I know this might see crazy but try not to buy individual bags of stuff because I try to be somewhat aware of the impact I make on the environment. I do not buy chips, or granola bars, or really any of that stuff much at all. We do not have alot of snack in our home. SS says he is hungry I say eat carrots. There is like no cookies, no brownies, no high sure foods in our come often.
Sorry if all that is so appalling to you but our kid does not go without and is a very healthy boy.
Why not have dad take him to
Why not have dad take him to the store and let him use his own money to buy himself some snacks for school? It’s cheaper than buying individual items in the lunch line and he has something extra besides just the food on his tray. Plus he gets some real life experience with food shopping. There are a lot of learning opportunities here that I get the sense that you’re missing bc your thinking is a little rigid and inflexible.
I agree it is cheaper than
I agree it is cheaper than individual items. You are right that is good a idea to get him to know the value of money.
I do pack him a snack everyday. They have snack later in the day in class and I pack him fruit snack and gold fish usually. We have a few snack items in the house just not that much. The school says it is suppose to be healthy so no chips really.
His lunches are pretty good. Tomorrow is hot dog with mac and cheese or mozz sticks and he has to take a fruit or vegetable and he also drinks a milk every day. The extra snack during lunch is usually like ice cream or bag of chips or pretzel. It is usually junk food. DH and I are pretty strict about the junk food that is why we told him once a week.
I do not mention this much here but my DH is a diabetic diagnose young. So we really try to watch SS sugar intake and snaking because of this. SS is fine and healthy he has been tested plus we do blood sugar test randomly once in a great while at home just to be sure. SS has a higher risk than most. He knows this we have talked to him about it.
While we seem rigid and inflexible there is a very large health reason for why we are they way we are with food.
Another parenting program to
Another parenting program to look up is The Total Transformation It’s great for stubborn kids and it’s easy for parents to understand I used it and have 3 launched bios
Have you considered parenting classes?
Have you considered parenting classes - you might get some new ideas. I also strongly recommend the book "Love and Logic" by Foster Cline and Jim Fay. They have a website with lots of information and also offer classes. Maybe you can get some ideas there.
Is there a chance he is eating at school because he is still hungry?
I don't see why you can't limit the presents from relatives. Just because they give it to him, doesn't mean he has to be able use it. DH can use those things as a reward for good behavior.
YES!!! Take back being the
YES!!! Take back being the adult and making those decisions from a 10yo. A 10yo is not capable of making those decisions or have the ability to hold himself accountable and discipline himself to achieve
Thank you, I have not
Thank you, I have not considered parenting classes and probably wont do them. I lost it a little this week with him. For the most part I stay pretty calm with him. Last night I found out he forgot the work sheet for his book project that was due today at school. I simply said I am not going to get mad or yell. I am not even going to punish this time. I am just going to let you get the grade you get.
I will say that overall lately I am just very disappointed in all that has been happening lately. I said I know you can do better than all you have been doing but right now I just do not see it and it makes me sad.
That actually got more of a reaction from him. He actually for once seemed to feel bad. We will see.
As for limiting the relatives. It is hard we flat out said no switch last year. They bought it anyway brought it to the house all wrapped. What were we suppose to do at that point take the box away that SS already saw and said nope you can not have this. I know he does not have to use it. He got a new video game for his bday has to play it or open it because he has not earned it back yet.
DH and I can say things till we are blue in the face but since they got use to doing whatever they wanted with SS they still think they can. Plenty people on here told me to not limit them because they were there first and I would only cause more damage. DH and I are trying to fix some of the bad behaviors that all of them including DH created. It is just hard to navigate at times.
Again than you for the advice I will look into that book and the website.