Finances in a second family
Hi there, my SO and I both have three kids from our previous marriages. We also have a one year old and a baby on the way together. He owns his own business and had a bitter divorce with his ex (he feels he got taken to the cleaners with CS, SS and equalization payment). When we got together he made it very clear that he wants separate everything in terms of finances. He earns 10x what I do and owns the house we live in outright and pays all of the bills. We both pay for groceries and our biokid’s expenses. We each pay for our own kids expenses (from previous marriages).
Our prenup states I don’t have rights to equalization or SS or his house and everything in his will be left to the his five kids (two of which are ours). The problem is that I’m on mat leave and I’m currently living on $2k a month. By the time I pay for my cell and life insurance and groceries, stuff for the house, etc I’m broke. I cannot save any money meanwhile he’s contributing to his retirement and savings. It feels like I will never get ahead in this situation and will actually end up depleting my savings to make up for the shortfall. He makes way more money so it makes sense that he has more but I feel like I’m bearing the financial burden of mat leave alone.
Am I wrong to feel this way? Does anyone else split their finances this way? It seems like most blended families keep their money separate.
Im starting to feel bitter.
I'm just trying to understand
I'm just trying to understand how you're broke with $2000 a month only paying groceries, cellphone, life insurance, and "stuff for the house" lol
Rough budget:
Rough budget:
I actually make $1800. I rounded up to $2k.
$200 on life insurance, $200 on cell phone, $1000 on groceries (including household toiletries, etc) $80 on baby class, $100 on baby stuff (diapers, baby food, etc)
I know I’m not poor and people have it much worse. If things got truly desperate I can cut out the class and reduce groceries to simple low cost foods.
Are you paying all of the
Are you paying all of the groceries and baby stuff for the household? If your husband is set on having split finances, despite you being on maternity leave, then I would have a conversation about splitting groceries, baby stuff, and utilities/bills (EVERYTHING) according to income PLUS him paying you a set amount (50%) of what daycare costs WOULD be if he didn't have you taking care of your mutual child. This seems like the most fair way to handle this and you would have much more leftover afterwards.
ETA: I just did the math. If you're earning $2000 and he makes 10x as much as you do... He's bringing in $20,000 per month? Now I'm all for split finances, but when one person lives paycheque to paycheque while the other can afford luxury cars, trips, etc. there's something wrong there. Nobody should feel comfortable watching their life partner live a way lower quality of life than them.
According to your incomes... Let's say the household needs come to $4000 a month, groceries, bills, baby stuff, all of it. You pay 10% and he pays 90% (based on incomes). That means you pay $400, he pays $3600. And since he's not valuing your contribution towards saving the household daycare money, he can give you $500 a month for the care you're providing HIS child. This is half of what you'd both be paying towards it if you were to go back to work. (at least in my area, it's half).
This leaves you with $2100 and him with $15900. Still a huge difference in disposable income but at least it's a bit more fair and you can both save within your means for retirement.
He actually makes way more
He actually makes way more than $20k a month but I’d rather not say how much. I typically make $4k a month but for the two years of mat leave, I’ve been on $1800/month.
i feel ridiculous buying KD and cutting baby classes as it’s not a stretch for “OUR” income level but it is a stretch for “MY” income level on mat leave. Since I’m at home righr now, I buy a lot of the groceries. He’ll pick stuff up on his way home.
If he agreed to this arrangement
At least hold him to half of the household expenses. Keep detailed records on grocery, baby, and other household expenses and ask him to pay half. How do both of you feel about you going back to work? If he only looks at things from a financial standpoint, maybe he will see you are better off using your maternity leave. I guess you could get rid of the cell phone and get a cheap phone and eat beans and rice every day. TBH I can't envision living this way. Not that I can't live frugally (I do) but he is being an ass not wanting more for his babies and the mother of his children, and not appreciating what you contribute to the hoisehold, allowing him to run his business.
Made me think of something regarding DH and me- I said we have separate finances, which we do. However during my deployments I recognized that DH being home was enabling me to go away for extended periods of time to do my work. We worked out a way for me to put a sizable portion of my pay into a joint fund we could spend together. When one spouse makes it possible for the other to work or run a business, that should be compensated in some way. A court might agree - if you could be seen as contributing to the business.
I left out the expenses I pay
I left out the expenses I pay for my other three. My ex and I split expenses 50/50, usually a couple hundred a month. Where I feel bitter is my SO is able to save six figures a year whereas I’ll have to decide whether to cut a baby class and buy cheap food for our blended family in order to save maybe a couple grand a year. I don’t know... it seems unfair but maybe that’s the way things roll the second time around. My exH and I used to share everything so I’m not accustomed to this “every man for himself” mentality. It doesn’t feel like a team approach.
I went back and edited my
I went back and edited my original post to address this a bit. That is totally unfair. Percentage-based splitting is the only fair way, IMO, to work with huge discrepancies in income in a relationship.
That’s a good idea and my
That’s a good idea and my lawyer suggested that we split finances that way when we did the prenup but he is really resisting. He feels that I get enough with him paying the bills. He had split everything with his ex and got burned and I think it stems from that
I'm all for separate finances in some cases
That's what DH and I do. But yours is not one of them. For me it made sense because all our kids (his kids and my kids, no "ours" kids) are grown and out, we definitely won't have any more, we have both saved for retirement, and our financial status is fairly equal. But I don't think most blended families do this, at least not completely like we do. Especially younger couples with minor children.
When you have kids together, it's not so black and white. I'll bet he is the sole owner of the house. Does he have life insurance, and who is the beneficiary? You may be better off without him. He sounds like a narcissist, nickeling and diming you. You probably wouldn't get support for yoirself but maybe you would for the 2 kids. Also unless you work something out with him, a talk with your lawyer might be in order. DH and I have a prenup (I wasn't all that concerned about it but it was something he wanted) and one thing my lawyer said was that they are not foolproof - it was possible to break them in some cases.
It is particularly possible
It is particularly possible to break them where they are very unfair, super uneven and leave a custodial parent with a crap life.
A lot of people who split
A lot of people who split finances are more equitable in how they split expenses. In your situation, it would be completely appropriate for your husband to pay a lot more of the expenses than you do, including ALL expenses (or at a minimum 90/10) for your mutual children and groceries. I can understand your husband not wanting to be taken to the cleaners if you divorce, but while you are living together and sharing a life, it is unacceptable to have the big financial imbalance you do. Do you share housework and child care equally? If not, and you do more, why is he not financially compensating you for that? Marriage is a partnership, and both partners make contributions. Some are financial, others are not. Your husband is being an ass.
Expenses
1. Why do you need so much life insurance? Don't your kids get some form of govt benefits if you die?
2. Speaking of govt benefits, I note you are in Canada, do you get any for your kids?
3. Cell phone? I assume that is for you and your 3 older kids, but still seems high, cant you get a cheaper plan?
How does the income
How does the income discrepancy affect other areas of your life together? Do you drive an old vehicle while he drives a really nice, fancy car? Does he go on 2 week long trips to far-away places while you spend a weekend away at a local city hotel? This is just such a huge difference we're talking about, and I can't see a relationship working long-term like this. How will things look when you both retire? Will you be couponing for food while he's eating steak and lobster at night?
I make 4x what my husband makes and we share our income totally. Actually, he's a stay-at-home dad to our 15 month old son at the moment - so i'm the only one financially contributing to the household of 4 (DH, SD, BS and I) but he's able to spend on whatever he likes - it's our money. I know it doesn't always work this way, but there needs to be a middle ground here. Prior to sharing income, he paid less rent, groceries, etc. because he made less.
Your partnership sounds
Your partnership sounds lovely. I had envisioned something like that.
Despite the income difference, he’s very frugal and lives more at my income level than anything else. There are no flashy cars, toys, etc. For vacations, we split things 50/50.
It sounds like our arrangement will continue into retirement. He’ll pay for all ongoing bills but I’m on my own for spending cash and household expenses. Grocery bill and kid related expenses will be greatly reduced tho.
How often are your SO's three
How often are your SO's three previous children in your home? Plus how often are your three previous children in your home?
Both are 50/50. My ex and I
Both are 50/50. My ex and I have a very fluid arrangement so sometimes my kids are there a bit less as my exH takes them to all soccer tournaments.
Sorry, no offense, but what a
Sorry, no offense, but what a cheapskate asshole you married. He intends to leave you NOTHING if he dies, even if you are still married? And you agreed to that?
He blames his first wife but in reality he was probably a financially controlling miser then too. I can’t imagine making scads of money, but not being willing to share a nickel with person I “loved”.
You married a jerk and agreed to a bad deal. And he has no obligation, legally, to change that, so I’d suggest you get a better job (or a better husband).
I think prenups make sense if someone is very wealthy, but this one is ridiculous.
Oh jeez. I totally overlooked
Oh jeez. I totally overlooked that. He's not leaving you anything if he dies? Why wouldn't a man want his wife taken care of in the event of his death? He literally has TONS to give, yet NOTHING goes to you and everything goes to his kids?
So his kids will be MORE than taken care of, yet you, his wife, will be left to struggle.
Crazy.
Like I said, my husband has no income as he's a SAHD at the moment. He gets free range to spend WHATEVER he wants from my income, because I love him and value his contributions to the household. It's a partnership.
I know it sounds ridiculous
I know it sounds ridiculous but I didn’t want him to feel I was in it for the money in any way. I genuinely fell in love with him and wanted him to feel that security. I figured things would mellow out into a reasonabl arrangement
I think you need to have your
I think you need to have your prenup re-looked at if possible. I get that he was burned by his ex & wants to protect himself, but tog is right. If something happens to him you seem to be entitled to nothing. What kind of person sets their spouse up that way?
I get wanting to show him you’re not in it for money, I did the same thing with my DH (though not to anywhere near this degree), but you really need to make sure that YOU are also protected. This arrangement benefits only him. I’m sorry, but he’s a selfish a$$.
I do get that, but it's time
I do get that, but it's time to revisit the financial agreement. I'm not suggesting that he allow you access to his net worth, but something after he dies is fair. I'm honestly not sure it's even legal to totally disinherit your spouse, at least it isn't in some states.
I'm a saver, too, though I'm not fabulously wealthy - but this isn't really about frugality for him, it's about control. That's what would irk me the most - and the lack of trust from him about money.
I agree with this
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
I bet he nickled-and-dimed his first wife too...while expecting her to stay home more with the kids than he did, thereby supporting his ability to run his business...and she got tired of it. Realized she'd be better off without him than with him.
Now he's trying to do it to Wife #2.
OP - my husband and I own a business...and I know many, many women who have been with men who own their own businesses. Does he ever ask or expect you to do any of the upkeep stuff on his business? Like balancing books, sending invoices...you know. Admin Assistant work for free? Is he in a high-profile business and does he expect you to go to networking events with him?
Maybe none of these things apply. But I have a friend who married a plastic surgeon. They had a pre-nup but it was broken because she regularly filled in at the front desk when the office was busy and he needed the extra help. Eventually, she was essentially running the office for "free" while also caring for their two boys.
When he cheated and she divorced him...she got compensated despite the pre-nup because of all the value she'd contributed to his practice over the years. They awarded her back-pay, interest, and penalties, essentially.
Maybe none of this applies to you...but if you are asked to do these kinds of things for his business...I'd document it every time.
Even if you don't lift a finger for his business, you're caring for his kids and his home and your arrangement sounds incredibly unfair.
I have to ask what would you
I have to ask what would you do if you had to go it alone? This man is pretty much supporting you. He’s paying for most of your bills. I hate to be a meany, but a $200 cell phone bill is outrageous, especially if that is not how you earn an income. I spend about $3 per month per phone, no data, prepaid, we use WiFi, and text each other for free over WiFi. If for some odd reason I need data, like we’re out of town, I’ll pay for data temporarily. We also have a 6 person family, we eat organic when it counts, plus dairy and grain free for less than $1000 a month.
Honestly, as a fellow saver, I wouldn’t trust you to spend my money either. If you really want to save, there are ways to do it, you’re not obligated to spend your whole paycheck just because its availiable. Though, I can understand wanting your DH to support you, especially while on maternity leave... I hope he’s at least putting money towards baby necessities.
My DH was burned by BM as well, and willed everything to SD at first, too. He changed it after we were married for 5ish years. Maybe if you show more responsibility with what you have, and prove through time your faithfulness to your marriage, he’ll be more interested in combining finances later.
Very true, except:
Very true, except:
-if we split, I’d get about $8k a month in CS and my mat leave income would be $10k a month and post mat leave around $12k a month. At that point, I could get a mortgage for $2k a month and pay my own bills AND save like a fiend. It’s mind boggling to me that I’d be far better off financially to leave than to stay.
-if there was no him, there would be no babies and mat leaves and my budget would be tight but fine.
He sounds like he creates
He sounds like he creates more stress than he's worth. At least if you left the financial worries would lessen considerably.
Maybe Scrooge would loosen
Maybe Scrooge would loosen the purse strings a bit if you pointed that out to him.
Uh is this a joke? Perhaps I
Uh is this a joke? Perhaps I've read this wrong. Is your husband not leaving you any money if he dies before you and you're still married? WTF is that? I hope I misread that.
So you're currently carrying your mutual child together and he isn't concerned that you are under this much stress? Nice guy. Okay so he doesn't want to support your previous kids but I'm not sure I understand why he wouldn't support you? You're staying home on leave right now. Your priority needs to be to keep your stress levels down for the health of yourself and baby. Stress is really bad for a developing fetus. You're creating a person! It's not like he doesn't have the funds to keep you well watered. This would make me feel unloved. I'm so sorry.
I don't know how it is in
I don't know how it is in Canada, but women in the US always get screwed on maternity leave. Not only do women earn less than men doing the same jobs, but when women take maternity leave, it sets women back professionally and financially.
Besides that, it sounds as if you're footing the majority of the bills for all your kids with him. So...basically, you're on a single mother's budget but...you're married? That's crazy! If you separate, you could probably get more money from him in child support than you're getting now!
You'll probably never get parity with him because women just don't make as much as men. So yes, he's squirreling away money for his future or his kids' future, while you're spending your income on your kids with him. That makes no sense.
I see why you keep separate finances with so many kids from other relationships, but why not agree with him that you'll each put a percentage of your income into a household account for your kids together? If you make it a percentage of what you each earn, that means you'll both be chipping in the same portion of your income, which is equitable, for kids and expenses you both share.
If he's resisting chipping in any more money, it's time to do a budget on paper for him to see exactly what you're pointing out here. He is not setting aside any money for your future should anything happen to him, so you must watch out for yourself. If he died today, could you manage? This is what you need to talk about with him.
I've lost count of how many kids you have, but it sounds like a lot. Time to get your birth control AND your budget in order until you know he's willing to pay for the kids that are already here AND you.
Factor in a cost for child
Factor in a cost for child bearing and rearing and send a bill.
I'm sorry if this has already
I'm sorry if this has already been suggested (only skim-read the answers) but I would stop looking at the bills as being 50-50 of the real cost and start looiking at them in the relative cost - 30% (as an example) of both incomes. That way, you both get hit with the same proportional amount, the bills get paid, and nobody is suffering for it. If youi don't do something like this, you are not going to have ANYTHING to retire on.
Your husband's fear of being taken to the cleaners has become obsessional and unhealthy. He needs to learn to trust you a little more. FFS, he already HAS a prenup (that he clearly dictated) and a will - what more does he want?! Personally, I would be disgusted, insulted, and very offended at being tarred with the same brush as his ex. And I would say so.
I also suggest some counselling to get him to see reality. I, for one, could not live like that.
I don’t want to sound vile
I don’t want to sound vile here, but at this point, I would be thinking about leaving. I’m a teacher and my DH is a political consultant; so as you can imagine, our incomes vary significantly. He pays all house bills. I pay for my car, student loans, and a couple little credit cards I have, and underwear or socks or food. With a husband that is making that much, the last thing on this planet you need to be stressed about is money.
Exactly. Begging for money
Exactly. Begging for money from a filthy rich husband is demeaning and I would get the hell out and file for CS, alimony and everything else the law allows.
I agree. If this (money) is
I agree. If this (money) is such a big issue for him, he should be with someone who is his fanancial equal.
Man...I'm so sorry.
Man...I'm so sorry.
I'm the higher earner in our relationship...and I would never dream of treating my husband this way. He's being a cheapskate and a real jerk during your pregnancy. Unbelievable.
You are bearing the full financial burden of maternity leave while your husband experiences zero change in his lifestyle or responsibilities? That is unfair right off the bat...it's his kid, too. At the very least, I'd suggest to him that you "split" the $2000 cost of mat leave and that he puts 1K a month into an account for your use.
Also, if it's you that notices groceries and household items are out first...and it makes sense for you to shop since you're home, he should also be putting a monthly amount into that same account for these things. You shouldn't bear the full brunt of all of this just because you're more observant and available. If you're spending $1000...make it $500 from him.
If for some reason he has a problem just handing this $$$ over, I'd ask him if he'd be willing to open a joint account just for household expenses and have him contribute $1500 a month to this account. That way, he can see where the money is going (into his kids' stomachs...).
Like others, I think it's shameful that he's treating you this way...and I think the whole "My ex took me to the cleaners!!!" routine is just an excuse to be a petty skinflint.
Is there any "sundown"
Is there any "sundown" provision in the prenup. As in if you are married for X years then you would be entitled to something more? My OSD signed an agreement with her DH because he was coming into the relationship with a lot more and the house they were building was on land his parents were selling him at a really discount rate. They got married because she got pregnant.. so he was worried if things didnt' work out that she could lay claim to more than she really should be entitled to.
In your case, it seems like it isn't particularly equitable that you are paying out virtually all of your disposable income. Certainly your grocery bill etc.. would not be as high if it was just you and your kids. I kind of get where he is coming from in that I imagine that he is paying a big dollar amount for the house and everything else. But your concerns are legitimate. Perhaps you should go back to work earlier to earn more and he can pay for childcare instead?
OR.. you could also talk to your DH about exactly what you are saying here. I am unable to save for my retirement based on the fact that I am staying home with OUR child.
What does he suggest?
I have a couple of suggestions.
1. You could open a 401K and he could agree to put in X amount while you are married.
2. You could amend the prenup so that you would have some more options going forward if you stay married a longer time.
3. He should take out an insurance policy with you as the beneficiary so that if he passes first.. you are not left with "nothing". He can still leave his fortune to the kids.. but maybe a 500K/1M policy in your name would allow you to move forward without living on welfare? He only would pay these premiums if you are married of course.
Good suggestions. I brought
Good suggestions. I brought up an insurance policy and he’s uninsurable due to a heart issue. I’ll think about the other two suggestions. I’ve analyzed this considerably and think:
-if he dies, our two kids will have a claim to his estate and we won’t starve
-if I leave him now, I’ll get CS and will be more than fine.
The catastrophe would be if I can’t save and divorce or death happens several decades from now. I won’t have much saved up if this current situation continues and there will be no CS for adult kids and I’ll also be at retirement age where my ability to work and save will be very limited quite possibly. If only I had a crystal ball!
The other part that really hurts is that he’s ok to leave me in such a vulnerable position. Can you really love someone and not care about what happens to them? I don’t expect a mansion and a Ferrari but it would be a relief to know I could afford to eat and live in a modest home.
"The other part that really
"The other part that really hurts is that he’s ok to leave me in such a vulnerable position. Can you really love someone and not care about what happens to them?"
This is what I was going to ask. OP, your husband loves money more than he loves you. There is no good and valid reason to have a will that entirely disinherits your wife that you supposedly love, except that you love money more. It sounds like he has enough money to leave you quite comfortable until the end of your life and still have lots and lots for all of his kids.
This would be the sticking point for me - the lack of trust, and the lack of caring about my well-being and my future. AND his need to control you with money.
If he can't get an insurance
If he can't get an insurance policy.. what about setting aside in trust X amount for you on an annual basis. The money would grow.. and as long as you continued to be married.. he would continue to fund this. If you passed first.. this money could go back to him as the surviving spouse. If you left him..or split.. that trust would end his contributions then and there. But, in the scenario where you are together for 20 years.. and are unable to save a meaningful amt due to household obligations.. he is not leaving you flat busted.
Speaks volumnes
-if he dies, our two kids will have a claim to his estate and we won’t starve. Who is the WE? All 5 of your kids and you? YOu would take from your younger kids estate to take kid of you and older kids. I suspect any money he leaves them will be in trust.
Have you talked with him
Have you talked with him about this? I would just say, "Hey DH, I've been doing all of the grocery shopping while I'm on leave but it's wiping out the little bit of income that I'm getting. Can you kick in to help out? Or get me a grocery budget credit card that you can pay? Or do you want beans and rice for dinner?"
I think it will come to that.
I think it will come to that. I will need to set a hard limit for groceries and then once that money is gone, I’ll ask him to chip in or be satisfied with low budget meals
OP - I'm sorry you've got
OP - I'm sorry you've got dogpiled by certain members here. It's not ok.
Neither is your situation. I think you need to have a talk with him. And if he doesn't listen, counselling. And if he still doesn't listen leave. It's totally not ok for one partner to be so much worse off financially with a person than without them.