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Ahhh the four year old..

Chasing10's picture

So if you’ve read my previous post on here then you know how I feel about my four y/o skid (definitely not the feelings of love or anything remotely close).

These passed few weeks I’ve been trying really hard to step away from the situation when I get frustrated and just let his father handle him. Repeating the mantra, “not my kid, not my problem” to myself every time SO gives in to his demands.
So fast forward to this weekend. Friday night was fine, I even walked him up the street to see Santa on the fire truck and the fire fighters giving out lollies. Saturday was fairly uneventful, just his usual horrid, rude behaviour. Running to his dad crying every time I ask him to do something, or ask him not to touch something because it’s not his.
Then Sunday happens and I was out the back with S/O cutting his hair when SS4 turns around and says “I don’t care if you cut your fingers hahaha” then carries on laughing then starts talking about “setting my bed on fire and me being dead” all the while wearing a big smug grin. SO turned around and said don’t talk like that. Then in the afternoon once his dad left the room and I was feeding LO, SS4 announces “iI don’t care if you are on a boat and get lost” at that point I snapped and said you know what!? I don’t care about you either SS4! I am sitting here minding my own business feeding your brother and you are being horrible, if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all! Then SO walks in and i lost it at him repeating all this things he’s said to me today and you haven’t said a damn thing to him! I have had discussions with my DS7 every time he has been rude to SO and I’m sick to death of him running off crying to you every time I speak to him like I’m the fecking devil! This is my house too, so he has to follow my rules too! And how is it going to look to LO when he’s older and SS4 is talking to me like that?
SO did then have a chat to him about being nice and listening to me. SS4 then came over all teary eyed and said sorry.
This is more of a vent than anything else. But how how howwwwq am I meant to deal with this?? Is he going to get better with age? Or will his behaviour get worse? Will he always be the rude horrible little monster? Or will he grow out of it??

mtnwife530's picture

Chances are it's going to get worse... a LOT WORSE. Sorry! Unless DH shuts him down hard every time, ss4 will think it's ok. as he gets older he will find a way to get ruder and meaner. It's just the way it is when kids find they can get away with something for so long.

Chasing10's picture

This is what I am fearful of. Once he’s is older and gets a few choice words added to his vocabulary that I’ll just be coping flat out verbal abuse. Hes already stuck his finger up at me DS and even LO before.

Indigo's picture

SS-4 is getting this attention-searching language from somewhere. You've been in his life 3 out of 4 years. Where do you think he is learning to speak to grown-ass adults in this manner? (It also reminds me of those old Cockney-speech rhyming idioms. Wordplay without the intent expressed.) Overreaction is inappropriate, but ignoring this behavior is wrong as well.

So, someone in his everyday life is modeling and encouraging this speech. I'd start to take a careful look around.

I'm sorry that your SO appears so ineffective a parent to SS-4.

https://www.steptalk.org/node/242317

fairyo's picture

I agree with this- this kind of speech has been modelled by other adults, otherwise how would a 4 year old speak this way? Does this kid go to childcare? If he doesn't then he must be picking it up from the people or media around him. Does he have access to storytime and books aimed at his age group?
Although what the things this child says are unacceptable, he is just saying them because he knows he will get a reaction. It sounds tough- but don't take it personally, he is four years old, not fourteen and has no way of carrying out these empty threats.
This kid is not being parented by his dad and clearly resents his little brother. I clearly remember hating mine for a long time after he was born-not until we became adults and I still wonder if he remembers all the horrible things I did to him.
I think he probably feels that he can't be nasty to his brother so he'll be nasty to you and you are providing a soft target.
I think I would give this child some positive attention- read with him, involve him in the care of his brother, allow him to speak freely about his feelings.
Kids love humour-make his verbal abuse into a fun game- ask him if you can put sausages and ketchup etc in the boat etc,turn his threats into treats for you.
Beyond this- DH really as to step up on this one, otherwise as others have said, there's a whole heap of trouble ahead.

Chasing10's picture

He does go to preschool but the comments are directed purely at me. My DS wasn’t home this w/e so we will see if he cops the same treatment next w/e too. I do have a strong feeling his BM may be involved as two weeks ago he stated loudly in the car, “no one in this car is my stepmum” which is a roundabout way of saying YOU are not my stepmum. Then that same day referred to his mother’s partner as his stepdad, and when SO questioned it he got really defensive shouting yes he is!
It just got worse this afternoon when I said “can you please pick up your colouring in stuff before your brother wakes up and tears it apart, he flat out said NO and laughed (with this smug little smile he’s adopted this weekend that says I’m not listening to a thing you say and there’s nothing you can do about it) I was dumbfounded and literally stopped in my tracks and said “excuse me??”
Even SO agreed with me (for once!) that he was being a real little brat this weekend,l. After I lost my temper today and said i always speak to DS7 whenever i feel he has been a bit on the disrespectful side and it’s ridiculous that his little snowflake gets the cotton wool he’s only 4 treatment and he gets so defensive and starts talking about my DS every time I mention SS4 he did speak up to SS4 a little. But how does he think some assholes come to be assholes?? Because they are allowed to act like assholes from the get go!
I agree that I feel he is very resentful of LO and knows his dad would NEVER stand for him being unkind to him. But he is 12 months old now and SS4s increased excessive bad behaviour is only very recent.

twoviewpoints's picture

"He does go to preschool but the comments are directed purely at me."

Because you react to him:

" at that point I snapped and said you know what!? I don’t care about you either SS4! I am sitting here minding my own business feeding your brother and you are being horrible, if you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all!"

Yet in your last post you assured me:

"I’m lucky to say it hasn’t affected mine and DH relationship as I am never mean to SS and I would never encourage my son to say he hates him and be mean."

And then you started fighting with your husband in front of the kid:

"Then SO walks in and i lost it at him repeating all this things he’s said to me today and you haven’t said a damn thing to him! I have had discussions with my DS7 every time he has been rude to SO and I’m sick to death of him running off crying to you every time I speak to him like I’m the fecking devil! This is my house too, so he has to follow my rules too! And how is it going to look to LO when he’s older and SS4 is talking to me like that?"

Do you see the cycled pattern here yet?

Disneyfan's picture

You hate the child and clearly he feels the same way about you.

Dad may be able to get the boy to shut his mouth, but he can't make him control his feelings.

Dad needs to accept the fact that the two of you hate one another. He also needs to re alize that no OUR YEAR OLD should have to live/visit a home where an adult hates him. The sooner dad wakes up and walks away from this relationship, the better off his son will be.

witch.hazel's picture

Of course you got PO'd being spoken to like that- you have to stick up for yourself no matter how young the kid is. I think you did well, and since you got an apology, maybe he learned something.

Keep sticking up for yourself. If your SO doesn't support you that the kid shouldn't be speaking to you like that, then it's not the relationship for you- but I think he did well for today because he didn't take the kid's side, and he talked to him and made him apologize. If it happens again, I'd take a toy. If the SO didn't support that, he could go along with his son.

secret's picture

100%.

I snapped at ss/dh once... that's when dh realized I meant business.

We have rules in the home. One of them, was that the kids aren't allowed to hang out in the garage. Yet... DH would always allow ss to come hang out... I was tolerating it, because ss is only 4, and constantly was coming in to give dad a hug, a kiss, to tell him something, generally just wanting to be included... and for the most part, dh would give him the attention he wanted, them ship him back inside because it's smoky.

I got more and more annoyed, until one day I went out for a smoke - I'm sitting there, enjoying peace and quite for a few minutes, dh comes in... followed by ss... and dh isn't sending ss back inside. So, I ask ss why he's in the garage. He says, because he's going to help his dad with x... so I butt out my smoke, get up - and say something along the lines of "well none of the others are allowed in the garage, why should you get special privileges, you're not more special than anyone else that has to follow the rules..." and head inside.

I went through the house and out the front door, where I finished my smoke.

DH comes out and tells me he sent ss inside for me... I said NO, he sent him inside because THAT is what we agreed on, and that if ss continues to come into the garage, I will make sure the other kids come hang out in there as well. The fact he is 4 is not an excuse to avoid the rules.

SS hasn't really been in the garage since.

In the same vein, when SS says something "obnoxious" like in your post, I respond in kind.

SS would say something like "I don't like you!", mostly because it worked with mom and dad to get his way when he got a no... I started responding with "I don't care, now go do x". After a few times, he stopped saying it to me, because he saw it didn't work on me. Eventually he stopped using it on dad too, because dad started doing what I was doing.

Or he'd say "I hope you get hurt" and I'd respond with "that's rude." Then, when he'd ask me something next, I'd say something like "You told me you hoped I'd get hurt, which was very rude. I don't do nice things for rude boys."

I'd say it regardless of whether dh was there or not.

Now... ss is sweet as pie.

Chasing10's picture

That is what it feels like for me! That there are two seperate sets of rules for my son and his. For example I wanted to buy DS a peewee dirt bike for his 6th birthday as he’d been riding a quad for years and asked for nothing else but this bike. Straight away SO was on the you can’t do that, he will get to cocky and hurt himself then his Birthday roles around and I get him one (he’s fine, hasn’t hurt himself once on it) and then he’s all about getting SS4 one who was three at the time!! And I got so cranky! I said that is not fair, DS had to wait till he was 6 and you were all about no he can’t have one and now you are buying your 3 year old one?? Why does he get one now when DS had to wait? It just makes it less special for DS when you get SS one because a. It’s not even his birthday and b. You said DS shouldn’t have one and he’s three years older then SS.
I ended up getting in the car a couple weeks later and SS was my dirt bike this my dirt bike that, that SO got him and just hides at his brothers house and says no no it’s mine.

I think I will have to do something like that. Just shut it down instantly with an I don’t care go do.. instead of ignoring ignoring until it gets the better of me.

Your reply makes me feel normal! The amount of negative comments I got amazed me. Is you SS still 4?

secret's picture

Nobody will learn to change behavior that is ignored rather than addressed. Not the child, not the parent.

SS is 4 1/2. He obviously still has some 4 year old moments, but for the most part, his behavior has drastically improved over the last year.

You can replace "I don't care" with "that's nice" or "whatever floats your boat".

Also - "rules shouldn't be different for your son and mine if we are all to live together in peace and harmony. Your son is not more important than mine, just like mine is not more important that yours - they are equal in importance - the kids aren't entitled to different rules while we share a household"

Be prepared to follow through, though.

Chasing10's picture

My rules have always been the same for DS but the way SO is with SS4, DS knows it’s not fair and “why can’t i have ice blocks at 9am? SS4 is” Why did SS4 get a new toy for no reason?” It makes me feel like I have to compromise my values and parenting and I hate it. SO just likes to take the easy way out but it’s just a a domino effect and causes tension.
I understand we don’t live in the Soviet Union and I don’t expect the kids to act that way, they are all just boys after all but I’m really over that pit in my stomach feeling every Friday, never enjoying a w/e and looking for ways to get out of the house with LO and DS. its exhausting!

Maxwell09's picture

It will get better if your SO is consistent and refuses to let the SKid think he can talk to you like that.

It will get worse as he ages if your SO keeps his head buried in the sand.

moeilijk's picture

Wow. It seems like you're quite blinded by frustration. There are tons of opportunities just in this post for ways to improve your relationship with SS4, which would obviously make your entire family much more harmonious. Is there a reason why you choose conflict and aggression instead? As unkind as his words are, he's four - certainly not at an age where an adult should be goaded into losing all self-control.

For example - if every time you ask him to do something, he runs to his day and cries, stop asking him to do things. Tell your SO that xyz needs to be done and leave it at that.

If he gets upset when something is not his, do some reflection as to why that might be. Is he after the older boy's toys? The baby's toys? Is he pretending to be a baby? Is he trying to get at cookies or at some activity his dad does? Does he have things that are his - are they accessible and appropriate?

When he says something with the intention of hurting you, recognize that. No need to be hurt by a child lashing out. You could just say, "Wow, you sound like you are really angry at me! Sometimes I get really angry too. I don't like feeling that way, but everyone gets angry sometimes." And just leave it.

Chasing10's picture

I’m sorry to the people that feel I reacted inappropriately to SS4s comments by losing my temper. But I’m not about to let a child think it is ok to ever speak to an adult like that, I’m not in the market of wrapping rude kids up in cotton wool and acting like it’s fine to speak to anyone like that. I tell my DS when he’s angry or upset all the time that it’s fine to have those feelings, that I get angry and upset too, that everyone does. It’s a different story when the comments aren’t said in a moment of anger or emotion but just a casual comment thrown out there with a smug grin. Also I reacted to him one time, after a whole day of his chatter, I feel I am entitled to that and I did well to not say anything up until that point. And I didn’t fight with my SO, id define a fight as two parties yelling at each other which didn’t occur. I told him how I was feeling and what I wanted in my own house. My parents didn’t allow me to speak to anyone that way and I know SOs parents didn’t either as they were incredibly strict.
He gets upset when something is not his as he has had everything he wants given to him and at his BMs house everything is his as he is the only child there and he can touch whatever he wants but here the rules are different. It’s not that he doesn’t have his own toys, he has his own room full of them, but I feel that he just can’t control himself to not touch what isn’t is. You know how when you ask some kids not to touch something so they will reach their foot out and touch it with their toe just to say I’m still touching it, it’s like that. I’ve noticed he only snatches from kids younger than him though like his cousins, LO and kids at play centres, not cousins older than him and DS.

secret's picture

Kids will learn fairly quickly that there are different rules in different places. It just needs to be consistent. It's going to be frustrating, like two steps forward one step back every single time they come back from the other parents... Aggravating AF, to be honest... but once it's done, it's great.

About the snatching: I snatched something from SS once. He was SO surprised, he was just staring at me. I asked him : Did you like that? Was I rude? Does that make you sad? Did that make you mad?

yes...

Then why do you do it to people? Why do you want to be rude? Why do you want to make people sad or mad?

He hardly snatched after that - I'd remind him about how snatching made people feel.

Sometimes, you need more than a gentle loving word about feelings - you need actions. Concrete examples. Hurt feelings. Shock. Some people are more hands on than a talk about hurt feefees.

SS still touches everything - we are constantly saying "is it yours? no? then why are you touching it?" "Don't touch what's not yours."

He messes around less with stuff, but he still does it. It's getting better.

Chasing10's picture

Arghhh he touching everyyyyything! Every single thing! It drives me insane!

LostinSpaceandTime's picture

I have not been around young children a whole lot since mine were little. Now they are in their 30's and the grandchildren are from 3 months to 3.5 years. Each of my sons have two children. The parenting styles in the two homes are very different.
My GS3 is at the stage of not wanting to share things. He will do things with that look on his face you are talking about. My GD3.5 is as sweet as can be and alway would say I love you back to me. Yet this weekend she said 'I do not love you'. Yet a few minutes later was back to I love you.
Today I was helping GD down the stairs and she had a toy in her hand, I was trying to be sure she did not fall and had my hand on her hand with the toy. Her dad thought she pulled the toy out of my hand when we got downstairs. He was scolding her for pulling it out of my hand. She started crying and was tattling on her dad to me when I asked why she was crying. He explained why he scolded her and I explained that she was coming down to show him the toy. He apologized to her and all was well.

Later Gs3 was trying to pull a toy away from GD3.5. A real tug of war. GS parents are telling him to stop then finally have to pick him up and put on time out.
All this and more in a two hour visit.
I was exhausted after just witnessing the kids playing and running about. And that included GS1yr old who was crawling everywhere and the baby 3 months.
Raising kids is hard work. There are no shortcuts and no breaks. Consistency is so important. There are so many resources now to help parents be successful.
Raising puppies or wild wolves is likely easier.

Kids are going to push buttons, going to say they hate you, going to do all sorts of things. Training them ( bio or step) is a seemingly never ending, thankless, exhausting job. Just hang in there. That is all I got for you. Just hang on. Try to enjoy the good, manage the bad best you can.

So far most all you described him doing sounds like what it will be at this age. Get some info on child development and parenting tools and methods. Just know that this will pass.

Chasing10's picture

I understand what you’re saying, I however also have my own 7 year old son who was never anything like SS4, at 4 or at any age! I think that is part of the struggle for me, dealing with a child that is the polar opposite of what my son is like and was like at 4.

fairyo's picture

They are all individuals- we don't expect adult siblings to be the same so why do we think children should be? As a child I was constantly being compared to my popular, almost perfect, older sister and you know what? I still don't like her much!
Toys are not the answer- you already said he has enough and the fact that he steals from younger and not older children speaks volumes. This kid needs attention! He's crying out to be noticed but all he knows is that he gets it when he's naughty- so you know? He's as naughty as can be!
You really need to correct him quickly the first time he does it- holding your tongue all day then telling him off is not the way- from this all he has learned is that eventually you give him that attention he's been wanting all the time. Kids are incredibly resilient- they will drive you into the ground if you let them.
With my grandkids I deal with it straight away. 'Have you seen me throwing things?' 'Did you ever hear me say that word?' etc etc. Then say neither do you expect it from them.
I still think a small amount of time spent with this child doing tasks for which you can say, 'That was really helpful.' 'I really appreciate your help' etc etc (without thanking them) will reap rewards.
He is not your son and never will be, you will have to come to terms with that.
That's if you want him to get better- maybe you need someone to get angry at too?

Java_Junkie's picture

I was exhausted after just witnessing the kids playing and running about. And that included GS1yr old who was crawling everywhere and the baby 3 months. Raising kids is hard work. There are no shortcuts and no breaks. Consistency is so important. There are so many resources now to help parents be successful. Raising puppies or wild wolves is likely easier.

Kids are going to push buttons, going to say they hate you, going to do all sorts of things. Training them (bio or step) is a seemingly never ending, thankless, exhausting job. Just hang in there. That is all I got for you. Just hang on. Try to enjoy the good, manage the bad best you can.

^^Vein of excellence on this site right there.^^

Just want to add... Treating a spouse like a step-spouse is uncool. Kids need training, step or bio, and step parents can be an awesome resource if you're both in agreement on things. But guess what? As steps, you will agree on wanting the best for the kids, but won't always agree on how to get there. There's no time for prolonged denial about anything, so sometimes it's best if one of the adults steps back (get it, STEP back?) and lets the bio parent do the job. No good being a martyr about it, either - if the bio won't, that's not the time to STEP up (puns everywhere today!). We, as steps, need to support and encourage our SOs to do what needs to be done (not what suits us, but what's best for the kids and SKids, who are ALL in the SAME boat... Not KIDS, but ADULTS IN TRAINING.

DW says I'm a hardaxx about things, I say I'm firm and see a good reason for SOME structure; I'm not obsessed, just would like some courtesy about their CONSTANT changes of plans.
I say she's a permissive parent, she says she likes to keep her kids busy with lots of activities and wants them to enjoy their childhood without "goose-stepping" or "walking on eggshells" around the house.
As a SKid myself, I watched my StepBrother (10 years younger than me) get to do ANYTHING HE WANTED because he was SO SPECIAL. StepSister was a mess (41 years old, still is)... StepBrother went on to become VERY destructive AND self-destructive for a spell, then got his act together a few years before he died. Perhaps he somehow felt so special that he felt superior and didn't need to listen to anyone? Sadly, I can't ask him WTH he was thinking at the time. My dad (his StepDad) was a believer in structure, rewarding GOOD behavior and penalizing BAD behavior, and rewards were in proportion, never lavish. My SMom didn't put things on a scale - once, her son was screwing up, so she rewarded him with a skiing trip to Utah to bond a little. !!!!SPOILER ALERT!!!! It didn't help, he kept screwing up, and even got worse.

I really saw a LOT of similarities between DW's and my SMom's parenting styles as well as the SKids' behaviors/attitudes and didn't want the SKids to screw up like my step brother and step sister; but now in my role as NotAParent, I disengage when DW when I don't agree. NMK/NMP. Oddly, DW has cited some of the screwed up stuff in my family as why she doesn't want to do things I might suggest - ignoring the points that I am offering suggestions based on what I witnessed as the root cause of the screwed up young adults: Permissive parenting creates ENTITLED KIDS who can become narcissistic, manipulative adults. Where's that Kermit The Frog sipping the tea meme?

Mantra... NMK, NMP, works for you, works for me.

Chasing10's picture

This Is what it’s like in my house. I’m the firmer one but I will discuss with DS why what he’s don’t is not ok. We have a very respectful relationship, I always give him his opportunity to speak and explain. He’s only 7 and I don’t intend for him to grow up a spoilt little a hole that has no concept of how things work in the real world. You are going to get told NO out there and you will have to know how to accept that.
SO HATES conflict and prefers to just roll over and say yes to shut SS4 up. He is physically unable to accept the word no and it drives me insane! That’s the hardest part for me trying to step back, when I will tell DS no and he accepts it but SO will say no, SS4 put on the water works and whinges and SO will say fine just have it but don’t ask for anything else! (Which of corse goes out the window half hour later). Or if he doesn’t want to do it he will say go ask me(SM) or SMs coming! He’s happy for me to step in when he can’t benothered but other then that I have no authority over this child.
He constantly buys him present for no reason, to the point where he walks in the door and says what did you buy me dad and melts down if he says nothing. And always around my DS birthday so SS4 doesn’t get upset that he got presents and SS4 didn’t. In turn making DS feel less special on his own birthday.
He is supposed to start school next year! He can’t keep his hands to himself, can’t follow simple directions/instructions, won’t listen to anyone! Continues to poo himself, bites, pinches, sticks up his rude finger (did this to my 12month old the other w/e). His BM is starting him early to get him out of the house.

How do you disengage when the rules between both children are so different?

Java_Junkie's picture

Ehh, well... Imagine how it'll go when sweetiepie gets into class and a teacher starts telling him what to do. Your husband will need to be the one who goes to see the teacher for those meetings - I'll recommend you make it an option for yourself so you know what the teachers are saying, but MAKE HIM GO. He needs some tips on how to how to be a man, and that's best from a third party (such as a counselor or the school).

Chasing10's picture

Thanks for the article. I needed to read the part stating I’m not responsible for who they are or who they become. Hopefully after reading it this weekend will have some peace.

Cooooookies's picture

Seems like, from what he's been saying and that it's specifically directed at you, that he's being trained. By a jealous BM. Standard GUBM playbook. When you don't want your ex to move on and he does AND it's with a good woman, pit the kids against her for spite.

Shut it down each and every time. Don't wait until the end of the day. Have a talk with him about being kind and how mean words hurt people and then sit him on the time out step/chair/floor every time. After 4 minutes are up, have him apologize.

Above all, remain calm. If he learns it winds you up, you'll never win this.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

It's a shame BM's can't let go and resort to PAS'ing as their smug little head game of satisfaction. Idiots.

moeilijk's picture

Look, if you're so sure that THIS child is damaged, why wouldn't you be extra gentle, extra consistent, extra careful that you don't lose your temper, that you aren't doing more damage by the hateful things you are saying to him?

It really sounds like you are just lazy. Your oldest wasn't like your SS, therefore something is wrong with SS and you give yourself permission to be an aggressive, bullying, negative adult in his life. If I heard of a teacher talking to a child the way you did and then justifying it over and over... I'd be calling the police. I know there are no laws against being a bad parent (full-on abusive is against the law, but not bad parenting), or even just a mean adult, but I would not want my kid around that kind of person.

And honestly, I wouldn't want to be that kind of person. Don't you feel wound up and angry? Why would you choose to stay in that pattern?

Chasing10's picture

I’ve never once said he was “damaged” and no, I’m not going to be extra gentle and careful with a child who has no respect for not just me, but his father or uncles and aunts. This is the first time I have ever spoken up for myself and I don’t regret it.
I don’t understand what about this situation makes me lazy. I make the comparison between him and my son because people say oh all boys are like that at that age. Well no, they’re not, my son wasn’t and none of my 4 nephews are either, some of which are from single mum families and others from mum and dad families. I understand every child is different. But speaking like that to anyone who has shown no outward animosity to them or never caused them harm is not a nice thing to do. In your opinion I should of just say there and but my tongue? Let him think that speaking like that is right?
If you bothered to pay attention to anything I wrote you would see that this is the first time I have ever snapped back at him for being hurtful, disrespectful and flat out rude. I treat him as any adult would treat a child under their care. I make sure he has food in his belly, clean clothes on his back, clean sheets to lie in, all the “woman” things his father doesn’t do. am I affectionate with him? No I’m not, I leave that to SOand if you call that abuse then so be it.
I believe the first five years are the most important in moulding who your child will be and how they are expected to behave within not just the family unit but socially as they get older.

moeilijk's picture

No, I haven't read all your posts, I don't know you or your story. Of course not - this is an internet forum!

I would take a different approach. You want to fight fire with fire, go for it. It won't work, it gets you angry and frustrated and just creates more tension and anger. But lots of people feel like that's a good way to go.

Why on earth would this be the first time you have spoken up for yourself? You don't need to snap and tell a kid you don't like him or wish he were dead or whatever to speak up for yourself! Every time you feel he is out of line, you correct him. Your boundaries should be set so close that this kid never gets the chance to piss you off.

I don't think his behaviour is 'normal', but it's his normal. So deal with it. And I don't mean lash out, I mean, help him develop insight, teach him appropriate behaviour etc etc. It's not that hard.

He says something rude, deal with it - don't bite your tongue only to lash out later. That doesn't make sense and makes everyone feel bad. But now you know the kid doesn't know better, so why are you so angry at him? Just teach him better and move on.

Chasing10's picture

I’ve never once said I wish he was dead and that I don’t like him, they were the things he’s said to me. My snap back was I don’t care about you either and if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.
I bite my tongue as a way of trying to step back from him and let his dad deal with it as anything I say goes in one ear out the other. But I’m sick of feeling uncomfortable every weekend in my own home.
I don’t believe it is his normal, I believe it is his BM in his ear telling him he doesn’t have to listen to me as I’m “not his stepmum” as he so loudly announced to me. He is at her house 5 out of 7 nights. Our rules at this house don’t stick, everytime he comes over it’s like starting from scratch and it’s exhausting! Our house is so calm and harmonious during the week and then every weekend rolls around and it’s an absolute disaster! SO gets so stressed with him and his constant demands, tantrums and toilet issues that by Sunday he’s hoping BM will text and pick him up early.
He’s always been rude and impolite but the remarks made to me are new. When he was just being a rude and filthy little boy I could handle it. Yes I’d get angry but that’s why I found this forum, as a way to vent it out, and perhaps receive some constructive advice. But listening to him say I will be dead when he sets my bed on fire in front of my 12 month old baby is not freaking ok. I didn’t feel bad after I lashed out cause SO finally stood up for me for once.

jadewolf0325's picture

My advice, which is easier than it sounds, is to:

1. Address the behavior without being overly emotional. Young children will act out to receive attention, good or bad. Address the behavior and move on. If it persists, move to discipline (time-out, etc.). If discipline either doesn't work or SS refuses to listen, ball is in Dads court.

2. Realize that you cannot solve problems this child has which are initiated outside of your home. Talk to his dad about it, but ultimately if he isn't in your home 24/7 than you cannot prevent him picking up this kind of behavior.

3. Do not wear your emotions on your sleeve. It is hard to act like you like someone that you do not, whether it is a kid or adult. BUT please realize it is a four year old, and you will have to be the adult.

Above all, be consistent. You want a sense of normalcy in your home, and this will come with time and consistency.

Java_Junkie's picture

No problem gets better with time. It takes persistent effort.
No kid gets better with age. Kids require persistent effort as well.
No relationship improves with time. Hurt needs to be healed and good feelings need to be nurtured.
Never wait. Reach out and work for it.

That said...
Is that kid’s name Damien or something? Holy crap... Wh did he learn all that from??

jadewolf0325's picture

HAHAHA - I was thinking "I wonder if his name is Damien and she is seeing things in the mirror".

Solidshadow7's picture

I am concerned with your DH's handling of his son's behavior. Who knows where the kid is getting it from, it could be from daycare, it could be from the BM, but it doesn't really matter because you can't control that. What you can control are acceptable standards of behavior for children in your home.

I have a 4 year old SS. He once lost all of his toys for a weekend because I asked him to go get DH for me and he just stood there playing with a toy. Sure, he was only 3 and it was probably him just being distracted and not intentional disobedience. It didn't matter, when I told DH that SS4 hadn't listened to me, he was enraged.
Another time I asked SS to stop playing with a handicap door. When he didn't listen I picked him up and pulled him away from the door. Told DH what happened and SS lost the television and his bedtime stories and they had a nice long chat about how what solidshadow says is law and the word of god on dad's time.

If he does something now you'd better believe within a few minutes he's crying and apologizing. I get treated like a parent, or DH turns SS's life into a living nightmare.

Why is your DH allowing his son to disrespect you? I can't even imagine what would happen to SS if he ever spoke to me like that.

A husband is supposed to defend and stand up for his wife. A man who does nothing when his wife his threatened is not a man. And it doesn't matter WHO is doing the disrespecting. DH will make short work of anyone who does, especially when its his own kid. There is no reason why you should ever have to defend yourself against your husbands offspring, it's his job to make sure his kids treat you appropriately. Any husband with any value should do the same. You need to have a nice long chat with your DH about what it means to be a man. When his son is allowed to disrespect you, your husband is also disrespecting you.

Chasing10's picture

I wish my SO was that on top of it! He just can’t follow through with any punishment or attempted punishment! SS broke DS iPad a few nights ago when DS and I were out. He went to bed before we got home, didn’t tell anyone he broke it till I found it when we got home. I spoke to SS about it in the morning and he lied and lied then finally admitted tony it. SO said don’t touch his stuff and that was the end of it till I said are you kidding me!! When DS wakes up you will apologise to him and you are not having any lollies today (he has a big lolly issue) he then burst into tears and I just said maybe that will teach you to keep your hands to yourself, this is my house too, my rules matter too. SO just looked at me and I said what?? He needs to be punished, not just told don’t do it again.
I hate feeling this way in what is meant to be my home

Solidshadow7's picture

You shouldn't have to take SS's lollipops away. Dh should have done that. And replaced DS's ipad. And made SS "pay" for it in some reasonable manner through additional chores or allowance deductions. And I wouldn't have had to do anything other than watch SS apologize to DS for what he did, and then apologize to me for what he did to an item that I paid for (if I did)

Your DH is too permissive of a parent, so of course your SS is going to be a nightmare. SS is not doing anything wrong, he is simply behaving the way he is being taught to by his parents. You need to focus on getting DH to see eye to eye with you, that's the only way you will find a relief for this.

moeilijk's picture

All the advice that the dad should be parenting a HECK of a lot more is bang on. Doesn't matter what BM says or does (mostly) because everyone can figure out that different places/people get different behaviour. No yelling in the library, no swearing in church, no hitting other kids at school, for example.

But the biggest advice, that the OP actually has control over, is to get HER act together. A kid says anything unacceptable - deal with it.

Kid: "I hate you!" "*swearing*" "Give me candy!" or anything else unacceptable...
OP: "It's ok to be angry/to want xyz/to feel sad, but in this house, we treat each other with kindness and respect. That means we use gentle words, gentle voices and gentle hands all the time. I know it's hard, but I think you can do it. If it's too hard, I can help."

Look, I get it. I have a kid who just turned 4, just streamed into kindy, and has spent the last 5 weeks getting gift after gift after gift from all kinds of people in her life. It's been very unsettling for her, and as much as she's enjoyed it, she's also suffering now with a lot of outbursts. We're now spending time talking about feelings, recognizing them in herself and in others, and learning what to do when she has certain feelings or she sees them in others. Learning empathy and caring behaviour is important and doesn't appear magically.

What I suspect is going on is that the OP is super-pissed to have such a craptastic parent as a partner that she has taken on 100% of the parenting for her older son, (so SO has only the fun-times role as step-dad), and 100% of the parenting for the LO, (again, SO only does the fun stuff), and at least 50% of the parenting of the SS, if not more. Plus most of the family/household tasks. So you add up all that anger and frustration, the lack of support and help and the resentment from having a life filled with chores while watching your SO have a ball and take little responsibility - and worse, watching him FAIL to teach his children any responsibility... and she either blasts the interloper, the SS, or her partner, the man she works so hard to please... and ofc, it's the kid who is first on the hit list.

Chasing10's picture

Your fairly on the mark with that last paragraph. At times I’ll cruise along fine and it doesn’t bother me but then there’s other times! Put all that on top of the comments and looks and behaviour I cop from A four year old that isn’t mine, and it tips me over the edge. Where as my SO, he is lovely to me, he would do anything I ask.. except enforce anything on SS.
Last nights for example LO wasn’t sleeping and he got up to just put him in bed with me and go back to sleep when I said no, you deal with it Of course he couldn’t get him back to sleep and I was laying there getting angry that how come he gets all the fun times?! He never bathes, feeds or puts him to bed and still can’t settle him back to sleep!
You can tell me all you want to get MY act together and “deal with it” but we had a big discussion about treating others as you wish to be treated two days ago. SO sat with me and we sat SS down to take about how if he is nicer to me and listens when I speak to him then I in turn will be nicer to him. All STILL to no avail.

moeilijk's picture

I think I haven't been very clear, so I'm sorry for that.

By "get YOUR act together" I mean - you decide what you will do, set boundaries you can live with, and enforce them. It's not easy or anything, but if you don't do it, you're going to keep on feeling like a doormat, and reacting with a LOT of anger to situations that - if you were otherwise all happy and relaxed - would not be a big deal.

The reason your SO never bathes, feeds, puts LO to bed or settles him back down to sleep is because you do it. Only you know if that's because you don't really trust him to do it properly and don't give him a chance, or because he's never there but that's a tradeoff you accept for something (like income), or if he's just a lazy parent.

In my case, I didn't feel like anyone could take care of my DD as well as I can, so I had a lot of mental work to do to deal with the anxiety that came up when my DH didn't do as good of a job as I thought he should. But I dealt with it because I wanted him to have his own relationship with DD, one without me hanging around telling him what to do. I wanted that because I don't want to be the one doing all the work. And because I know that the anxiety I was feeling was just my thoughts - it wasn't true that my DH couldn't do a good job. It wouldn't be how I would do it, but it would be ok.

The 'deal with it' is about addressing every episode in the moment. Stop letting things build up. It's so tiring to have the feeling of unresolved negative feelings. And they stay unresolved.

I know it's hard, believe me, I get it. But it's just not worth biting your tongue or expecting a 'talk' to do much good. It's correcting it every time. My kid, granted, on a much smaller scale, was a royal pain today. But I have a plan. She does something that isn't ok, that is new (like, she suddenly started sticking her tongue out to be 'mean'), so I say what I see, what I think is going on, how it affects me, and what I want to see happen. "Oh, you're sticking your tongue out. Usually people do that when they are angry and don't know how to talk about it. It's a way of being mean to someone, so I don't like it when you do that. I think you need to calm down, so you can decide if you want to go to your room or sit on the sofa. If you stick out your tongue again, I'll know you need help calming down and I'll bring you to your room for x minutes."

Very similar, with a bit less room for being a jerk lol, for when it's stuff she knows isn't ok, like wiggling the table a lot.

EVERY TIME. Compared to most other parents that I know, I am much more gentle than most, but MUCH more strict as well. I need to be strict for my own sanity. There are clear rules, not very many, but there is no doubt about what is ok and not ok. (And if there is, I clear up that doubt right way.) And the consequences are clear. Even when I'm angry, I say, "I love you but I am really angry with how you are acting right now. I'm going into my room to cool off./If you aren't sitting nicely in your car seat by the time I count to 3, I will come and help you." (She likes independence, so she usually does it.)

But I need to be gentle too. I was raised with a LOT of aggression, and it was very damaging. I'm doing well now, but I've been in therapy (off and on) for 30 years. I need to be strict to give myself the opportunity to be gentle, because I worry my under-stress-mode is going to be aggression, and that I would damage my wonderful daughter.

I'm really not surprised that the talk you and SO had with SS was useless. You didn't give clarity to the 4 year old brain. He doesn't really understand nice - it's too vague. He gets that it's positive, but it's not clear enough. The tit-for-tat he also doesn't really get. And two days ago? That's forever.

I would use play to model appropriate behaviour for him. Let's say a difficult situation is him grabbing toys from others.

YOU: Ok, SS, I've got your favourite dolly/action figure/whatever here, and I thought we could all play a game. (Has all props ready.)
SS: Ok.
YOU: Isn't this fun! The dolly is nicely playing with her baby bottle, and I'm nicely playing with my ball. Uh-oh! (Dolly drops baby bottle and comes to grab your bell.) Hey, dolly, that's not nice! Hey, give that back! That's mine! I'm really angry that you took that! SS, that dolly took my ball! Was that nice?
SS:(Laughing) No!
YOU: Hmm, we better explain to the dolly why grabbing toys isn't ok. Do you know why it's not ok, SS?
SS: Because it's not hers.
YOU: Right! That's one good reason. Do you any other reasons? I know another reason.
SS: What is it?
YOU: Well, because grabbing the ball made me angry, and I know the dolly didn't want to make me angry, the dolly just doesn't understand yet about please and thank you. Do you think we can help the dolly learn about please and thank you too?
SS: Yes!
YOU: (turns to dolly) OK, dolly, I don't think you know, but it's not ok to grab toys from people. Did you know that?
YOU: (pretending to be dolly) No! I didn't know that!
YOU: That's ok, SS is going to help you learn how to ask for something saying Please and Thank you.
SS: Ok, dolly, when you want something....