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About Money

stepper47's picture

My DH and I have weathered the latest storm between us, and have found common ground again.  We talked out our feelings, apologized for our missteps, and one can only hope these disagreements will make us stronger.  We had a small get together last week at our home for SS20's birthday. Just family, and SD16 did make an appearance.  DH said while she was here she said she wanted to get together, and then she called him the next day to invite him to dinner. He was pretty excited, it starts looking like maybe the clouds start to break up and things may move in the right direction.  He took her to eat, and that evening I asked how it went.  I could tell he was being vague, although he did say she was not planning to move back in here at all, and that she said she was feeling better about being in one house.  Nothing negative, so i assumed everything was ok and I was glad they were able to  start getting together.   This week he seemed like something was on his mind, but he kept saying everything was fine.  This evening he finally let it out.  When they went to dinner, she told him she wanted him to give her money because since she wasnt living here anymore, he doesn't have to pay for her food or things she needs.  She thought $40 a month would be good.  And it was only fair since the boys are here (SS on school break, my son lives here while commuting to school) and we buy groceries for the house and  include them in dinner out sometimes.  Oh, and he owes her $50 because she was not able to go to a movie we invited her to as a family, but she and her boyfriend went to see it on a different day.  Since we paid for the boys and their girlfriends to go with us, he needs to give her the money she and her boyfriend spent.   From what he told me, he was so taken aback that he told he he would think about it, and has been stewing on it all week.  He has texted her and called a few times to check in, and she has ghosted him except to text once to ask if he had made a decision about giving her money yet.  Am I crazy, or is this messed up?

Petronella's picture

What? That’s incredibly messed up and I think you know it. Don’t call yourself crazy. Your SD’s latest demand is what’s crazy. It’s also outrageous that your husband didn’t shut that shit down instantly. Why is he so terrified of this girl? What can he do to him that she hadn’t already done?

Of course he doesn’t “owe” her money for her not being there! If anything he probably owes CS to BM but that’s very different. 

stepper47's picture

I ask the same question, why is he so afraid of SD?  I feel like if SS asked for that as a minor, DH would just laugh or be like, uh, no.  But SD says something and it's like ohhhh nooooo, we must be careful or we will make her maddddd.  Just bizarre.  But habits are hard to break, and this is how it's been for a while.  At least he is taking to me about it

Winterglow's picture

No you are not crazy. Yes this is messed up. IT's time he gave her his answer ... a resounding NO!

stepper47's picture

Thank you, agreed.  I wish he hadn't said to let him think about it.  I feel like that just validates her behavior.  But I am thankful he didn't say ok....baby steps....

tog redux's picture

What? Tell her he pays child support (I assume) for those things at BM's house, and if she wants to partake in family activities at your home that are paid for by him, she has to actually, you know, BE THERE for those activities.

What entitlement.  I hope he isn't considering this extortion.

stepper47's picture

Agreed, and I called it extortion last night.  He also agrees, but he just can't seem to shake his guilty fear.   There is no way we should be handing over cash bc a kid tells us to.   I told him if her mom needs more child support, that's a discussion for the adults, not the kid

stepper47's picture

She is now at her mom's by their design, and does not come here unless she wants to use our pool.  He does pay child support, their agreed upon amount plus I found out he pays her mom for her part of the cell phone bill

stepper47's picture

Yeahhhh. One if our issues of me feeling like he withholds information, but I am learning to pick and choose my battles.  I don't check with him every time I want to buy my son, or any of the kids for that matter, something, so if this is what he feels he needs to do, then I guess that is his prerogative.  Would be nice if she used the phone he is paying for to respond to him, but again....I am learning to let go of some things.  Other than my snide comments like the above, but if we can't be funny about it, I may lose my mind Smile

RLZ0073's picture

he pays for a phone that isn’t even being used by that little ingrate? Then I would not pay at all... doesn’t this mean he’s paying for someone else to use that phone? Who’s plan is it and why does he feel guilty enough to pay for that?

stepper47's picture

Oh no, she uses the phone (social media, texting friends, calling her mother or brother, texting or calling DH when she wants something),  but I would say 90% of the time she does not respond to DH, and most of the time if I happen to text her I get nothing.  She used to be on our phone plan but would run up our data, plus she wanted the newest iphone and we weren't going to buy her one, so BM agreed to move her to her plan.  I suppose DH figured since he had been paying for her phone he should just continue, I don't remember that we ever talked about it...

RLZ0073's picture

DH's 2 do not answer calls or texts... even when they're upstairs in their rooms. Then again neither does their BM... ridiculous

stepper47's picture

It really is ridiculous...and rude.   My son would no longer have had a phone if he did that. 

RLZ0073's picture

she can go ask her mom for some money... 

my husband gives his ungrateful ex and joysucking children $2k a month and we know she’s spending it on her unemployed boyfriend, taking him to wineries... 

stepper47's picture

Oh my goodness, so frustrating to know that much money is going for something frivolous and not related to the kids.  You could probably use that cash for your family, right?

Harry's picture

 

If he starts this it will never end.  SD can move back to BM who is getting CS for her. If not she is on her own

stepper47's picture

Agreed, that feels like all he is to her at the moment and if he keeps going along, it won't change.  It's not that we are not willing to give her money, we dont want to create a monster.  More of one. Lol

Curious Georgetta's picture

out between themselves. She is the product of the rearing and experiences that she has had with Both parents. He should be accustomed to dealing with and responding to this child.

In the long term , you want your husband's relationship with his children to be the results of interactions and decisions made between the  2 of them. You do not want to place yourself in the position of being the cause of any regrets that he may later experience related to their relationship.

In terms of the money, I do no see the grocery money as excessive  and there is a certain amount of logic to the request.

The request to be reimbursed for a date with her boyfriend is absurd. You invited her to an outing and she declined. End of story.

 

 

Capricorn63's picture

The grocery money is absurd.  He provides resources to his home, roof, utility bills, food & clothes for when he has custody.  If his child chooses to not come she forfeits the resources.

If the BM wants to pursue a change in custody based on the child not going, she can spend her financial resources to hire a lawyer and try to make that happen, if it does his child support will go up to the mom.  Oh well.

her request for the $50 movie money is absurd also, same choice.  I offer to take you to a movie and spend an evening with with me, happy to pay for it.  You choose to go on your own at another time - you pay for it. 

tog redux's picture

What? If he pays BM Child Support, that's the grocery money for her home. Period. She is choosing not to visit anymore, DH doesn't have to pay for her groceries twice.

Curious Georgetta's picture

and for what purpose it is paid. Whatever decision he makes , it will not be an uninformed decision.

If the history reported on this site has taught us anything, it is that when wives inject themselves into the father/ teen /adult child decision making process, rarely, in the long term, does it work out well for the wife. It seems in many cases to result in a had I not listened to you , I would not be estranged from my  child situation.

Anything that the wife knows about what the husband pays in CS, he is aware  of the same information and may or may not consider that relevant in his decision making.

In the long term the wife is better served by letting her husband choose his own course. Forty dollars a month is not going to make or break anyone's bank or budget.

Better to let dad navigate this situation , than to later have him saying to his wife but  for $40 and listening to your advice, I would not be estranged from my child.

If estrangement is in his future, let it be the result of his actions rather than your input.

 

 

hereiam's picture

It's not really about whether $40.00 makes or break the bank or budget - the money, itself, is not the real issue. I would think you would realize that, as a former therapist and all.

hereiam's picture

Haha! What is logical about expecting to be paid because she is not using resources at her father's home? Ridiculous.

So, when I was young and spent summers with my grandparents and cousins, I should have demanded the money that I saved my parents in food for the summer. I wonder if my dad would reimburse me, now? With interest, of course.

Curious Georgetta's picture

that which they are capable of and willing to pay. It does not matter  what anyone but the person making the payment thinks. As long as they are not stealing or using the resources of  others, it really choice is a personal decision.

Not every mom and it dad think of themselves as the ATM when they choose to give money to their own children. 

Occasionally, they simply think that " I am able to do this, and it gives me pleasure to do so. "

stepper47's picture

I see what you are saying, and I definitely dont want to negatively impact their relationship.  However, I don't see how I am not supposed to have any input in something that is so deeply affecting my partner, and therefore me.  He is not accustomed to a healthy way in dealing with his daughter, that is part of how we got here.  He asks for my advice and input, like partners do.  He didn't always do that, he held it all in and ignored a lot, and the situation with her has grown into something ugly.  If I can help him navigate through all of this, I will sure try.   I want the best for him, and also for my SD.  I love her also, even though I don't particularly like her behavior.  At all.    There is some logic to what she is asking, I suppose, but it goes back to who is the parent and who is the child.  If she needs something, he will do his best, but to pay a kid who made their own decision to remove themselves from any benefits from our household just seems a little ridiculous to me.  And hurtful to him that she had all these expectations of him, but resists any expectations being put on herself.  In fact, she calls that being a bad person and awful father when he tries.  The whole situation is stupid and sliding out of control, and I really feel like it would be a bad decision to contribute to further deterioration by feeding into it.   

hereiam's picture

That is VERY messed up.

I hope your husband takes this opportunity to teach her a few things about life.

stepper47's picture

We shall see.  It seems every time he tries to teach her something, she turns raging and then shuts him out for a while, so he is a little leery of trying to teach.  I wish the teaching had happened a few years ago.  We didnt talk about it today so I dont know what he is thinking.    I am just hoping he holds the line on this one bc if he goes with it I am positive it won't stop here

hereiam's picture

But, is that the kind of relationship he wants with her for the rest of his life? She only lets him in if he does what she wants?

He is her parent, it is his job to teach her about life. And respect.This girl is awful to both of her parents.

notarelative's picture

Food money? If DH falls for this one,.... She's 16 and living with a parent (BM). She doesn't need food money. She needs to eat at home. If she wants to eat out without a parent, she needs to get a job to pay for it.

Movie money? $50? How much do movies cost where you live? Sorry, you didn't come doesn't mean I have to pay for you to go separately.

Your previous blogs,about SD and the car, show this money ask as part of a pattern. Your DH needs to open his eyes and learn to say no.

 

stepper47's picture

She actually has one and makes pretty good money. From what she says.  She is not lacking in anything material, she is just looking for opportunity to get more

stepper47's picture

Haha, I am sure popcorn and snacks were included, and sure she rounded up.  It has been a pattern for a long time, I remember a few years ago being so upset with her on vacation.  I had taken her and the boys to some shops and told them they each had $20 for a souvenir.  She didnt choose anything and when i asked her she said she didnt need anything.  Later when we were back with DH, she told him he needed to give her $20 since she didn't buy a souvenir.  I think my head spun around....I was trying to do something nice and she turned it into entitlement.  He didnt give it to her, I was proud of him.  Although he probably snuck it to her later : /

Rags's picture

Nope, non resident kids are supported with CS.  If this one wants the benefits of the household she chose to leave and  does not live full time in, then she needs to move..

Hopefully DH gives her clarity.  CS covers food, entertainmnet, housing, clothing, utilities, etc, etc, etc, and is the NCPs full responsibility to non resident children if not otherwise stipulated in the CO.

She is messed up and if DH entertains her request, so is he.

stepper47's picture

Amen brother.   DH hasn't agreed (yet) but he is messed up enough to entertain it. The guilt is real.  I do not get it.  But I have never had to share my child with someone else, so maybe it really is a whole new dynamic, I don't know.  I would love if he would tell her it is not her business what we do with our resources, even less so now that she has decided not to be here

Exjuliemccoy's picture

This is so absurd.

As a parent, it is your H's duty to explain to his daughter why her demands are both unrealistic and inappropriate. I hope he uses this as a teachable moment rather than burying his head in the sand.

stepper47's picture

Me too, I have been trying to help him see that it's not a parent's job to reward bad behavior just to make sure their kid is happy at all times.  I feel like that is so damaging in the long run.  He gets it, but easier said than done for him.  Especially when faced with losing his daughter

stepper47's picture

Looks like the consensus is that I am not crazy to this is a problem. Whew.  I question my sanity often, it is hard not to when things like this go on.

DH is upset, offended, angry, and a bit embarrassed at his daughter's way of thinking. But he is also handcuffed by guilt.  He does pay his wife a decent amount each month, unfortunately it is an amount they agreed upon at the divorce and is not court ordered.  It is probably not what a court would order him to pay, but he is also supposed to have court ordered shared custody.  SD16 chose, with her mother's support, to move out of our home over 3 months ago, in a pretty hateful manner.  It had been building, but that catalyst was that DH finally started to parent.   He is sad that she doesnt want to live with us, but in a normal situation he would get it - one house is easier, plus girls tend to gravitate toward their mom.  What is hard about this is that she has called him an awful father and person, and blames moving out on all the mistakes she has ever perceived we have made.  It has not been a normal parent child relationship in a long time.  I am really hoping he can have some clarity on this and not entertain the idea any longer, otherwise he is setting himself up for a lifetime of being used.   And no amount of money or things is going to fill her up, she may not realize it now, but what she really needs is a secure, loving relationship with her parents.  It's just sad

Petronella's picture

So, SD may possibly be expressing, in a roundabout way, that dad is not paying enough child support and from what you’ve just updated, she might not be wrong about that. Of course it’s still absurd for her to expect him to hand her money.  But since she’s now moved to BM’s house full time and doesn’t want to come back and you guys don’t want her back... dad should really get a updated custody schedule and child support order. Look up the tables for your state or province and see how much CS he’d need to pay.

stepper47's picture

It's not that we dont want her to come back, we did not make this decision and it broke his heart.  But we do have some basic expectations if she ever did want to, that I am not sure she would ever want to meet because they do not put her at the center of the universe.  The only way SD would know whether DH is paying enough or not would be if BM told her, so I am sure there has been discussion.  I don't know if BM put her up to it, but regardless that's a talk for grown ups to have, not kids.  I did look it up today, I don't know BMs income, but based on my guess, he is paying about half what the court would order.  He (and I) want to do the right thing by his daughter, it's just a little hard to swallow when the opportunity for parenting has been so roughly taken away from him

tog redux's picture

If BM wants to go after more CS, that's her right - but it's not reasonable for SD to be the one asking for grocery money, because you know damn well, she ain't spending it on groceries.

Your DH will make this situation far worse in the long run if he gives in to her demands. He has nothing to feel guilty about. 

hereiam's picture

It didn't read, to me, that she even wants it for groceries, just expects the cash that he would be spending on food and other stuff for her if she were there. NO.

She is being a greedy little brat and is just trying to manipulate him and get something from him.

stepper47's picture

I completely agree with you.  And that is what it is about, not encouraging the entitlement and flat out mean behavior.  We will pay what we have to to support his daughter, but not just bc she "decided" what was a good idea.  I half wish BM would just file, I am tired of that looming.  At least stop hiding behind her kid, if that is what is happening

shamds's picture

saving dad money because she doesn’t use their groceries and other expenses so he shoild pay her the “reasonable money”? Wouldn’t that mean he isn’t saving money??

also if she lives with bio mum then cs covers this. She is trying to double dip which means she’s a selfish pig... 

curious georgetta if your 16 yr old says i don’t eat the food you cook so imm saving you money so you paying me $40 per month is reasonable, would you give her the money or tell her to eff off??

justmakingthebest's picture

I am so glad that you were able to realize quickly that you are not crazy.

What SD is doing is crazy! I can't even imagine my parents face if I would have pulled that. I would probably hysterically laugh if my kids ever pulled that! 

DH's response to her wanting $ because the other kids get it should be - "They get that extra support because they are part of our family unit. You wanted out of our family unit. You don't want me for any thing more than $. That is not how relationships work and I am so sorry that you have been raised to believe that anything you are saying is even remotely ok. Now, if you change your mind and want to be a part of our family again, I would love to offer you the same benefits- things like going to the movies as a family and I get the tab- that they others have. However the others have a reciprocal relationship with your SM and I. You are not doing anything but demanding money. Let me know when you want to try a real relationship again."

stepper47's picture

I really like this, it sums it up and explains things well.  It's hard to find the words through the emotions. And the thing is, we have still been trying to include her in the family unit, she is welcome to participate with us.  She just doesn't care, she has set herself apart for a long time. 

Letti.R's picture

This is totally messed up.
I haven't lived at my parents home for 12 years, so I guess I can send them an invoice for all the meals I missed, utilities not used and ask them to pay me for being without the pleasure of my presence.
This is so absurd, even from a 16yo, I can't help but think WTF?!

stepper47's picture

Haha my thoughts exactly, I was having trouble comprehending what he was telling me.   My parents were divorced and I only saw my dad about one weekend a month.  It never, ever crossed my mind that he should pay me because I was mostly not there eating his food and using his stuff.  I was just happy when I got to see him

Cover1W's picture

PASd OSD tried this with DH too! I think it was movie money as well. He said absolutely not. BUT not without working through some guilt feelings first. Don't do it, she'll just want more.

 

tog redux's picture

What do they feel guilty about? I don't understand that. My DH has never felt one ounce of guilt about any of this - why should he?

Petronella's picture

Same here. My DH doesn’t feel the least bit guilty. If anything he regrets what an easy touch he’s sometimes been in the past. He certainly feels no guilt about saying no to his kids today.

stepper47's picture

I don't understand the guilt either, although I do think it enhances that feeling when you have your ex and then your child telling you that you are not doing what you are supposed to.  My son grew up without a father due to my poor choices.  While I regret that my choices impacted his life, I have never felt "guilty" to where I wanted to compensate for that by giving in to everything.  But, I was also with him all the time, so I didnt have to deal with guilt for not being there.  I think that is where it starts, when dad (or mom) is suddenly not part of their kids daily lives

tog redux's picture

But this isn't DH's choice, he wants SD at his home. She's choosing not to be there, and BM is supporting that. He has nothing to feel guilty about. 

stepper47's picture

Exactly...SDs choice and BM has propped her up for it.  But they would tell you this was necessary because DH is such a terrible father and so mean.  It is getting in his head

hereiam's picture

What he SHOULD feel guilty about, is letting his kid act like such an entitled brat.

I get the guilt, my DH felt it, too (and probably still does, to an extent) but he did not let it determine his parenting. He was the same parent after the divorce, as he was before. Letting his daughter sass back or spoiling her was not going to do anybody any good or change anything regarding the divorce.

Your husband bowing down to SD's manipulation teaches her that it works, so it will continue. Being afraid of his kid and giving in to what she wants, just reinforces that bully mentality, which I'm sure she uses elsewhere, also. That's the kind of person he and BM are raising. So, kudos to them!

stepper47's picture

Totally agree with you, and he has made comments that he feels bad for allowing things to progress in this direction.  It sure didnt do anyone any good.   I think logically he gets that he and BM have created this, but I don't know if he has the tools or strength to not go along with it anymore.  

Cover1W's picture

It's a mental health issue IMHO.  He feels guilty if he denies the SDs ANYTHING.  The word NO very, very, very rarely comes out of his mouth with either of them.  He actually physically struggles with saying any version of no - literally, he'll fidget.  Then the SDs know they have him.  It's hard to watch - I'm so disengaged from this I literally walk out of, or away from, where ever we are so I don't witness the spectacle.

He's in therapy for himself, which is good, but while there's been improvements in some things, like with his being more engaged with me in certain things, he still cannot address his behavior with the SDs.

stepper47's picture

I have suggested my DH see a counselor, but he is reluctant to open up really to anyone about his feelings on this. I don't think he talks to anyone about it other than me, and even then he is guarded because he doesnt want to upset me or influence my opinion toward her.  I am going to keep encouraging him to go talk to someone, maybe help him sort things out

stepper47's picture

Oh my gosh, well I am glad we aren't the only ones it is happening with.  I am glad to know that once your DH processed, he stayed strong.  I am hopeful for mine.  I am sorry you are going through similar, it really sucks, to be frank

ESMOD's picture

I think he was absolutely embarassed to tell you that she asked him for money like that.. and that he ALSO thinks it's a ridiculous request.. and he feels bad because his daughter has reduced their relationship to a financial transaction.

stepper47's picture

Yes to all of this.  He said that he is feeling bad about the way he has handled some things, and worries about me judging him.  I have tried to explain that I am not judging by having an opinion, I just want to try to change some of the patterns because things obviously aren't working the way they have been going

CLove's picture

What utter drivel - SD is out of line  - several times over! These COD's love using guilt as a manipulation tool, and dadees are RIPE for it. They know its ridiculous, but having to say "no", just makes them feel so bad I guess.

DH sais no and no and still no, and still the "asks" continue to flow. The requests for money, for money and to move back into our home. And being a  total b!tch during the ask process (such charmers!!!) because perhaps they are just testing the waters and dont really and truly think it will work.

idk.

stepper47's picture

Ugh, hate to hear that the No's don't stop the asking, but I am not surprised.   I really wonder if these SDs who behave this way treat others in their life like this, or if it's mostly dad who gets the brundt.  Makes me so upset to see it happening when dad has been there and trying to do his best for them

Harry's picture

That just the start.  What is $4O going to buy ?  Not much food.  Two days worth.  It’s just going to be more and more money.  It’s playing into her game.  He will be supporting her in a few months.  He should be teaching her to be an adult and live on her own. Like real people do.  Like you and DH does.  Granddad isn’t giving you money each week 

stepper47's picture

You are totally correct, and I thought $40 was a weird amount to ask for.  It feels like a test, low enough where he might say yes but not really high enough to make much difference?  Is she looking at it as if he is paying her it is a sign that he cares, because she equates caring to stuff?  I am overanalyzing.  But it is strange.  I did receive a lot of help over the years from my parents, I never asked for it, they just did it.   It was a blessing I had planned to pay forward to my own kids, not because its expected but because I want to.  It makes me not want to when it is being demanded.  And that stinks. 

Thisisnotus's picture

If I had to guess...he is going to say yes and give her the money so prepare yourself now for that....I live in this world also. My DH cannot say no, ever. He wants to , he tries, but he can't.

 

stepper47's picture

I am going to try to leave this for his decision to make, but it will impact my respect for him if he decides to pay her. And it will impact our marriage if he decides to pay her and hides it from me.  I am praying he does not do the second one

Winterglow's picture

I'm just musing here but ... if he found out that he's actually been giving bm more than the court would have ordered over the years, do you think it would make it easier for him to tell his daughter to take a running jump "no"? It might be worthwhile putting the numbers into your state's CS calculator just to see ...

stepper47's picture

I am not sure if it would make it easier for him, ii don't know if he is motivated to consider it bc he thinks he should be paying more child support, which if that were the case, why did they agree to this amount, or if he is afraid of making her angry again.  I did look up a chart earlier, I am not sure of BMs income, but based on my guess, the amount he pays is probably about half of what a court would order in a BM custody situation.  He does also cover medical, school, and sport expenses, and until she started being a jerk, he paid for a lot of other miscellaneous things.  I assume that is what she is missing.  I am interested to see if BM ends up chiming in 

Inluck's picture

BM put her up to it. It’s probably $40 a month to save towards something like an AirPod.