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Ugh! Still going on about Covid! Won’t vaccinate.

Biostep7777's picture

So my husband and I got Covid over a month ago. We are vaccinated and had very mild symptoms. Got over it quickly and quarantined for the quarantine period. 
He let HCBM know that he had it, what he was doing and when quarantine period was over. He has to let her know since it effected his custody time.  She made a huge deal out of the whole thing. She asked if I got it, my kids, asked for a full list of how we disinfected the house! Lol! Of course we ignored her. DH let her know what he was required to. Nothing more. 
Also, she has refused to get their 15 year old vaccinated. 
So, she messages DH today saying they are doing antibody testing. She says it's $25 and that DH needs to pay it. Lol!! We can't figure out why she is doing that but we think she's trying to price that DH gave it to him??? It's weird! 

An hour later, she messages DH and says "it's negative. He's getting vaccinated now" She gave him no information. Didn't tell him where they are. Gave him zero notice that they are doing it (she knows he wanted him vaccinated but did not tell him they were doing it) so DH couldn't be there. 
She is literally out of her mind! Omg. It's constant but we just keep saying "this will be good for us for court" my god. They have joint legal custody but she does not include DH in anything! Then she says he doesn't involve himself with these things. No.... she excludes him! He would be there had he known. 
 

 

Winterglow's picture

Why would he want to be there? There is absolutely no need for both parents to be there and the chances are high that he wouldn't have been admitted even if he HAD been there. The point is to keep the number of people going in and out to the minimum so as to keep the risk of infection as low as possible. 

Biostep7777's picture

Because he's their father. My kids had both of their parents there. It's for the kids. Both parents to support them, both parents there incase there was an emergency or something went wrong. Both parents there to support him. This wasn't just a routine visit. Obviously both parents don't need to be there for that but this was different. In our opinion. 

bananaseedo's picture

Regardls of how 'extra' you guys are being, covid testing and vaccines ARE routine appointments these days.  She DID notify him but saying he was getting tested- it's likely the same place that tested offered her to go ahead and get his vaccine and she said yes.  I see absolutely NO reason she would re-schedule, come back another day just to let him know exactly where/when so he could be a helicopter parent as apparently you and your ex seem to be.  

You guys are appearing as very high conflict IMO.  The kid is 15! What need to have daddy/mommy sitting there for a routine shot.  Will he go to his daughters first pap smear as a 'family' unit to be there for moral support?  

You may have other contempt things but this one is very over the top- you can end up appearing as extra petty to a judge.  A judge probably dictated her informing him for big events, not routine ones.  People can just show up now for testing/shots the day of, no appointment needed or made at many places now.  It's very likely she got worried about her son w/you guys having it (very normal of course) and decided to test him, and then vaccinate to be safe.  It's no big deal.  Keep it in your arsenal if you must but I would consider not presenting it or at least don't come across as freakish as you do on this post -making a big deal out of a covid shot. 

 

Floral_SM's picture

I tend to agree with Winter. Shared custody is shared custody. Im sure if there was an emergency your DH would get the call and then you can cross that bridge. This is a world wide pandemic we are in and minimising risk is so important. 

Biostep7777's picture

Regardless. They have joint legal custody. She did not discuss this with him, did not tell him where they would be, did not even tell him they were going. Nothing. That's not how joint custody works. She makes all the decisions and completely disregards him. The point isn't really whether he would be there or not. The point is that she didn't even let him know and made a legal decision without him and didn't even give him a chance to decide to be there or not. I understand the pandemic. We have been extremely cautious and take it very seriously but I still think the parents have a right to decided to be there or not and she in in contempt again for not including him in a legal decision. He's vaccinated and wears a mask. Even if they asked him to sit in the car he would have been ok with that but he didn't even get the opportunity to be there for his son in any way because she once again excluded him from decisions. 

Winterglow's picture

You see it as her making a decision without consulting him. A judge might see it as her complying with his wishes. 

Biostep7777's picture

The judge told her that give dad adequate notice of all appointments that the kids attend because she kept doing this and would not tell DH anything. She acts like he doesn't exist and the judge said that is really bad for the kids. HCBM did exactly what the judge warned her not to do. 

bananaseedo's picture

WHat ages are the other kids?  I don't think judges would care much about him being there at Dr appointments for a 15 yr old, especially a covid test/shot that doesn't need an appointment, kwim?  Is this a normal thing, for both parents to be at Dr visits?  Maybe because I grew up a single mother whose ex didn't care at all, but I would find extremely obtrusive to have to notify my ex every time I took my kids to a Dr visit, especially routine ones.  Were there any significant health complications that started this ball rolling, as in surgery, etc?  

HOnestly, you don't even see this in intact homes- both parents there for braces?  LOL-  See, this is where divorced parents mess up their kids- they think they are doing their kids by teaching them the world revolves around them, you would be hard pressed to find ANY intact parent home with both parents at ANY given appointment unless it were an emergency, arm break, surgery, etc.  I've seen them take turns, where dad/mom take the time off depending on what's going on w/them that week.  Does your husband have unlimited time to attend all these?  

Are you 100pct positive it's your DH driving this request or is he just following what you and your ex do or what you think he/his ex should do because you and your ex do, kwim?  So many times we see stepmoms trying to force their dh's to do what they think they should do, even if they really don't care to.  

notsurehowtodeal's picture

Try looking at this differently. DH wanted SS vaccinated and now he will be vaccinated. BM made it a difficult as possible, but the end result is what DH wanted to happen. Laugh at the absurdity and take this as a win.

A piece of unsolicited advice - do not bring up this incident in court. You have many legitimate issues with BM. The way she handled this, not notifying DH where they were, is not something a judge is going to care about one way or the other. Yes, it is part of a pattern - but if you overwhelm a judge with lots of small incidents you run the risk of damaging your overall case. And as political as COVID has become, you could have a judge who doesn't see it the same way as you do.

Harry's picture

To get  anywhere with BM.  She will do as she pleases.   SS is 15. In a few years he will be an adult.  And you can say by by to BM.  At this point disengage,  it will help your health 

tog redux's picture

Yes, see this as getting what you want, not as BM being difficult. Both parents don't need to be there when a 15-year-old gets vaccinated, sorry, and why would he even want to see her? He can't complain that she harasses him at baseball games and shouldn't be allowed to attend on his time, and then demand that he be allowed to be with her for a routine vaccination. 

also, he already told her he was in agreement with the vaccine, why should she ask again? Do you really want them to discuss every minor medical decision? That's not really how joint custody works either.

 

You've got to figure out what to let go. 

 

shellpell's picture

Agree 100% with this. Why does he need to be there for a shot that takes 30 seconds? He wanted his kid vaccinated, now he is. Does it matter how it happened? You can't reason with crazy so why try.

tog redux's picture

Seems to me that it's only in these high conflict divorces, where both parents are trying to stake their claim, that they both want to go to minor medical appointments.  I can see both being present if the kid has cancer or surgery, or for therapy appointments if necessary. But I don't know anyone with kids in an intact family or a healthy divorce, where both parents insist on going to the dentist, or to vaccine appointments or well-child appointments. 

Joint medical care means either parent can make decisions, not that they both have to agree to every minor medical procedure and attend every dang doctor appointment. If anything, they can split the responsibility of taking kids to appointments and make their lives easier. Now, I know BM won't agree to that, but that doesn't mean DH has to insist on being at every simple medical encounter the kids have.

 We wonder why these kids grow up thinking they are special and can't do anything alone without mom and dad's help.  But when Dad leaves work to sit in the car while Jr. gets a quick vaccine, that's the message that's being sent.

 

 

Biostep7777's picture

My kid's dad and I have a wonderful coparenting relationship and we were both at the bigger things like when they got braces and when they got the Covid vaccine. To me this is a really big deal. It's not just a normal vaccine. Also, both of us wanted to be there because this vaccine is fairly new and just incase there was a reaction both parents wanted to be present. 
The issue here is that BM is stating that DH isn't involved and that she has to do "everything" she will not discuss the children's health with him and yes, in their agreement it says they have joint custody and both need to agree on anything medical related. She tells the kids dad doesn't care to show up anything. She complains that she has to do it all without DH's help, he told her he would take him for the vaccine if she would agree and she wouldn't then turned around and took him. She didn't tell DH we're they were, they are required to notify each other in advance of all appointments which she didn't do, the CO states she is required to give dad adequate time for appointments as both parents have a right to be at any appointments. She is in contempt again. The reason the judge ordered this is because mom makes ALL the decisions without DH and has alienated him from anything to do with the kids. 
 

We spoke to our attorney yesterday. She wrote a quick email for us and said this looks REALLY bad on HCBM because the judge told her to not to do exactly this. She told her that dad has the right to go to appointments and she needs to give him at least 24 hours of all appointments and tell him location. She didn't.

tog redux's picture

Okay. Then you and he both need to stop saying BM shouldn't be allowed to go to baseball games on DH's time. You can't pick and choose when to co-parent any more than she can. 
 

You guys are inviting trouble and thinking this will help you "win".  Lawyers and judges say lots of things but in the end, contempt petitions are rarely successful. 
 

And for the record, he's no more likely to "have a reaction" immediately to the vaccine than he would with any other vaccine. You and DH thought a hernia was "no big deal" - a vaccine is even less so.

tog redux's picture

Also, if I may reply to myself, lol, what you and your ex do has zero bearing on what DH and his ex do. Your ex is not high conflict. The more your DH insists and demands and pees on his territory to force BM to co-parent, the worse BM is going to get. With someone like her, you have to pick your battles, and pick them wisely. 

If I were a judge and someone came in with a contempt petition about a vaccine they had already agreed to previously, I'd toss it out. Save contempt for BIG things, like withheld visitation.

tog redux's picture

Unfortunately, that happens in these situations. I saw it with my DH. It's hard not to fight when someone is so high conflict and trying to cut you out, and it took me a long time to convince my DH that fighting every high conflict thing BM did would slowly destroy his mental and physical health, AND give her just what she wanted - a reaction and his attention.

She took him alone to get a vaccine I already agreed to is not a hill to die on. It is a good way to fund your attorney's kids' college education, though.  And to get yourself labeled as difficult.

 

Biostep7777's picture

Well it's not that. It's that the judge told her she needs to give 24 hour notice for appointments because DH has a right to be at appointments if he chooses. The judge told her to cut it out. Then she did it again. Again, DH didn't fight, he didn't say a word. He just documented this for court to show she has zero intention of following the court order. 

Biostep7777's picture

How? The judge order her not to do this. She did it again. We have 20+ contempts on her to take to court. We simple documented and added it to the pile. DH has not said a word about it to HCBM at all. Which part of what we did is high conflict? 

Biostep7777's picture

He's not demanding anything. Again, the judge ruled for her not to do this. She did it again. We have not said a word to HCBM. Just documented and added it to the pile of contempts to bring to court. I think both parents have a right to show up for the important things in the kid's lives. That's all. 

tog redux's picture

That depends on how you (and the judge) define "important events".  Taking the other parent to court over a vaccine appointment (which you think is important, but the judge may not) could be construed as him being high conflict.  BM thought getting hourly updates on SS's condition after going to the ED was "important". You didn't.

I don't think vaccine appointments are important, and others on this thread don't either.

 

Biostep7777's picture

No we are just adding it to the pile of thd other 20+ contempts. DH hasn't said a word to her about this. He didn't respond at all. The judge told mom to cut it out. Not us. 

tog redux's picture

JustMakingTheBest's judge said he'd throw BM in jail for this and that, and then when she did this and that, he didn't throw her in jail. Judges like to make threats and they expect that to be enough, because it usually is for normal people. When push comes to shove they are reluctant to really impose consequences, especially on women..

Biostep7777's picture

Well that sucks. We don't want her thrown in jail. We just was a parental coordinator. The more things we have like this, thd more likely we will get granted one. 

tog redux's picture

I hope for you that court gets over with soon. My experience with it was profoundly disappointing, they didn't see anything the way we did, and BM being female and good at playing the victim gave her a huge advantage. Even if you get a parenting coordinator, there is no guarantee BM won't manipulate that person and continue her high conflict ways with their support.

I know you are hoping for help from the court, but the reality is that it rarely works that way and the best way to deal with someone like your BM is to learn how to pick battles,when to let go, how to set rock-solid boundaries, and how to not inadvertently reward her behavior.  You can start that now by accepting that BM is going to be BM, and no piece of paper is going to change that. Most mothers can violate COs until the cows come home with zero consequences, because few judges will take a child from their mother, especially if that child is a teen and wants to stay with her.

Mamabearof3's picture

What's crazy about getting an antibody test? My doctor said to do it if it's been within 4 months of infection. Natural immunity is better. Proving that would prevent any possible problems. 

AgedOut's picture

make sure you're being honest with yourselves regarding your real motivation. make sure this isn't really about "winning"

 

Also a 15 yr old could have told Dad what was going on if, and this is a big if, he wanted Dad to be there. As the mom of two sons, at 15 they didn't want either parent there let alone both and SM too 

ESMOD's picture

Honestly?  I don't think that your BM did anyting out of the way wrong here.  The end game goal for your husband should have been that his son was vaccinated.  That happened.  

There is NO reason why he had to be at this appointment.  It would be highly unusual for both parents to attend such a routine visit.. barring some extremely unusual medical circumstances.. and saying "it's a new vaccine"..pffft.. lots of vaccines are new to each of us the day we get them it's OUR first experience with the vaccine.  I got my flu shot today.. had a different mix than last year.. It was handled very routinely in my company's lunchroom.

For Whatever reason, BM had a shift in opinion towards COVID and getting the vaccine... which she KNEW your husband wanted for his son.  So, she went, got the testing and the opportunity to fulfill your husband's wishes happened at the same time.  So, that's a WIN for him.. his son is vaccinated.

It's not an opportunity to somehow try to prove that she has failed to live to the small print in the CO.  This was a routine medical appt.. not prompted by any illness or injury.  Not an Emergency.. like the hernia was.  

Could she have notified him 24 hours prior? who knows if she was able to get a last minute appt.. or a walk in clinic and in the moment decided to be sensible and have her son protected? 

By trying to hit her over the head for something like this with such small consequence and importance.. if you put this in front of a judge??? he will likely think that your DH and you are the ones being high conflict and that poor BM has to deal with all this toxic behavior and accusations for the most minor of things... it WILL weaken your case.

The kid is 15... in some states a 15 yo can seek out medical care on their own for certain circumstances.... The kid is 2 and going in for some experimental cancer treatment? yeah.. different ballpark.  You are takiing the kid in to get evaluated for expensive orthodontia? sure.. dad might want to be there and hear that from the DR directly.  But a shot..?

That is over the top.. it really is.

I might be slightly exasperated that BM did what was right.. but took a very long and winding and annoying route to get there.. but he needs to focus on the end result and that is that his son is vaccinated.. and you need to not magnify the molehill that he wasn't able to sit outside (and avoid BM).

ESMOD's picture

I just want to add that the reality is that despite what the judge said.... there is very little chance that the court will ever want to or be able to do anything about these issues that for the most part amount to "small annoyances".  They will tell her not to do them.. but what is the stick they will use?  I mean, we have seen some pretty egregious alienation and violations by other BM's on here and the courts do nothing while the NCP throws money down the wishing well of family law court/lawyers.

I doubt they will assign that person to his case.  If they do, I bet there will be an additional cost and your DH will likely have to bear at least some of it.. and news flash.. it won't stop BM from doing all the minorly aggravating crap she is doing.  

At some point, your DH needs to lazer focus his mental energy on the important things and let the minor crap just go... and you need to encourage him to not pick up the rope when she does an aggravation.. just grey rock back to her with the most appropriate response if a response is needed.

In this case... I might have responded.  "great.. glad you agreed with my request for him to be vaccinated". period. on OFW of course.

You can't control her.  The courts really can't control her.  All you can do is control your reactions.. choose to move beyond the aggravations that you can't manage.