What Do You Define as "Too Strict" When It Comes to Kids Cleaning Up?
So my husband and I got into a discussion today that got me thinking..
SD goes to her mom's for the summer (for about a month and a half) and her mom has a crappy apartment where she lets SD run amuck ie. no rules at all, she can eat wherever she wants, leaves her dishes laying around, doesn't have to wash her hands after eating, and can play with play dough, paint, etc. wherever. She's only 5 turning 6.
She lives with us full-time and we're much more strict. I think my husband prefers to be strict to a degree, but probably not as much as I do. He's very respectful of me and my liking for cleanliness, though, so the rules we've agreed upon are probably more to keep me happy than him. Basically, here are the rules we've set:
-No food or drinks anywhere but the kitchen table.
-Hands need to be washed after eating unless it's something that's not messy.
-Toys get put back in your room when you're done playing with them. Bring them down to the living room, sure, but put em away afterwards.
-Shoes get put in the closet when you get home.
-Dishes get rinsed after you use them. As she gets older, she'll be expected to clean them, but for now, rinsing and putting them in the dishwasher is fine.
-Your room stays tidy. It doesn't have to be perfect but toys get put away at the end of the night at least.
-Clothes go in the hamper (there's one in the bathroom as well as her room) when you get dressed.
And that's pretty much it. Basically, clean up after yourself... that's the gist of it. I don't think it's asking much, especially since she's almost 6. But back to my point... SD recently got back from her mom's and is, of course, totally disregarding all of the rules she's normally used to because her mother lets her do whatever she wants and make a mess/live like a slob.
I've been really frustrated because I'm in my third trimester and nesting, and since she's come back, I feel like I have to remind her of very basic things. Which is fine, but it's frustrating feeling like I have MORE cleaning up to do late in pregnancy as opposed to taking some time to relax. I know she'll get back into a routine with us. She's a good kid and WANTS to follow rules. Just needs to get used to it again.
When I was telling my husband that it's kind of upsetting how she comes back so totally out of wack with the rules, he said something about our house being way uptight so of course it's hard on her. I asked him what he means - how is it uptight? and he backtracked saying he meant compared to BMs, but I think maybe he actually finds it uptight... so my question is, are we too strict? Is what i've listed above too much for kids?
I know a lot of people with children let them do whatever they want but personally, I feel it's good for kids to learn how to tidy after themselves and live in a nice place. In my opinion, it's a great way to teach them to respect their belongings as well as other people's belongings. But maybe i'm wrong. So what's your opinion? What's "too strict" when it comes to kids cleaning up after themselves and living in a nice home?
i dont see anything wrong
i dont see anything wrong with these basic rules. children need guidelines or the house would be a mess. a lot of the time the skids are testing their limits.
dh was a real pushover when the skids lived with us the house was a pig sty. food bowls would be left with stuck on ice cream with crumbs all over the floor. dirty underwear on the floor for days. and these were teen agers. it stunk inside the rooms. i finally disengaged and let dh deal with it. teenagers can really stink.
it took awhile. at one point dh was doing the skids laundry for them and two of them were young women with panties and bras. i could not even imagine humiliating my own father by making him clean my intimate clothing with bodily fluids and stench! i questioned this of dh and he said he really likes doing the laundry for the skids.
for the record bm kicked each skid out of her house when they turned 18 so each of them came running to daddeeeee. they would collude and then try to "vote me out of the house" and demand their father divorce me.
it was unreal.
Wow what did he do when they
Wow what did he do when they did that. I think I would tell my grown kids that if they do't like my husband they can move out and take care of themselves!
Oh no! That sounds terrible.
Oh no! That sounds terrible. I can't imagine. One of the main reasons I'm involved with SD is because I refuse to live with someone I cannot stand, so I want to turn her into a human being that behaves properly... Might seem selfish but hey, I couldn't handle living with someone who left disgusting messes all over MY house. Not that DH would allow it, but he does tolerate mess better and he's slower to clean than I am lol that's one of the main reasons I setup rules so everyone would clean up after themselves... If a mess builds, it's usually me who gives first
Interesting. It's a very
Interesting. It's a very personal question. So my brother and gf love to have a home that is always tidy with everything put away. His BD12 has to tidy her stuff away every time she uses something. To them that's not strict.
That's my two cents.
My BF has three teen daughters and he doesn't really expect them to do anything. 15,17, 19. He just cleans up around them and after them. They can leave dirty dishes in the lounge if they like. To him that's not too easy.
I'm kinda in the middle. Tidy up at end of day is fine. Even leaving dinner dishes till morning is fine. But it does have to get done. I think they should vacuum once a week, keep their rooms nice and tidy up after themselves as well as help with either cooking or cleaning. To me this is normal. To him that's strict and I don't let them breathe. To my brother I am way too slack.
I think in the end, it's about what you are comfortable with. It's your home in the sense that you are the responsible adult and you pay for it, so you get to have it the way you want it.
Nothing seems unreasonable to me that you are asking for. Giving leeway to pick up toys at end of day is cool.
But as I"ve said others might think that's too easy and others too strict.
It does sound like your partner would prefer things a little looser, but as long as you are both united to the little girl it's okay.
You're very right.. it's such
You're very right.. it's such a personal question. I'm lucky to have a husband who understands it's easier for him to be a bit more strict than for me to be a bit more easy-going. He always says it's nice to live in a clean house so there's no harm in him bending a bit. We present a united front, I just wish her mother cared a bit more about these things.
It's hard because aside from allowing her to live like a total slob, she has no expectations of manners or respect for others. SD clearly runs the show when she's at her moms. She comes home eating with her mouth wide open, not saying please/thank you, laughing when she farts instead of saying excuse me... the list goes on. I was raised by military parents to act proper from a very young age, and while I understand kids will be kids, they should also be expected to act with manners if you ask me.
So DH and I have been trying to get her back into good habits, but with me being heavily pregnant, I have very little patience and I'm starting to miss the quiet relaxed summer we were having. I finally ended up telling him I'm stepping back for a bit until she's back into good habits... mostly for her sake because it's not her fault she's picked up bad habits.
I think if you leave dirty
I think if you leave dirty dishes around is discussing. Who wants to look at dirty dishes in the main living room. When you are done eating.
For me that in the kitchen/ dinning room not the living room. You dont want chairs carpet with food stains. You clean up your stuff. Put dishs in dishwasher.
If you are working in a office, do you leave your dirty stuff in the lunch room until you go home ??? No you clean up.
That the way it is in life and the house.
Yep I agree with this. It
Yep I agree with this. It might seem a bit much to some people but I just don't understand leaving a mess like that everywhere you go. First of all, it's so much easier to just take two seconds and put whatever it is away (dish, dirty clothes, seriously; anything) than let it pile up and have to clean all the time. I'd rather deep clean once in a while but keep a tidy home.
Sounds reasonable. Only real
Sounds reasonable.
Only real thing I personally would argue with you about is that we let the kids have drinks in their room at night. Bottles of water or something like that.
But your home your rules.
As for her forgetting after being with mom it's normal. Just stick to the rules.
Oh I forgot about that.
Oh I forgot about that. That's the one exception is a glass of water in her bedroom at night. That's totally fine!
And yeah... It's totally normal and not her fault at all that she forgets after being with mom, but it's frustrating nonetheless.
You are way to soft
You are way to soft woman...... so what if she visits a slob, she's old enough to understand your house your rules, believe me when I say... I will only speak to you once to do something, after that consequences, it's the quickest way for a child to remember....
Oh and make sure DH is doing most of the house work since your house is up tight.... that pissed me off,
I don't think that's strict
I don't think that's strict at all, I think it's very reasonable - normal behavior, really.
Food/drinks for us are in the kitchen/dining room only. They still try to sneak it elsewhere when I'm not home, but they don't seem to have caught on that they need to actually dispose of the evidence...put your damn bowl in the sink at least!
Their rooms must be kept clean. Not so much toys - but hair bands, clothes, nail polish bottles, papers... ugh. Somehow, bobby-pins find themselves in every corner of the house... I'm always picking them up. It's like they have bobby-pin babies on a regular basis.
They must wipe down the kitchen counters before they leave for school, and make sure all the food stuff is put away. Making cereal in the morning and putting a sandwich together seems to be an ordeal... somehow crumbs end up on both ends of the counter and the island....???
After using the shower, they need to get rid of the massive amount of hair they shed...
I also make them do chores when they get home - the kitchen needs to be clean if they want me to cook. They take turns vacuuming once a week so it gets done every second or third day between all of us, they take turns mopping the floor so it gets done once a week between all of us - sweeping gets done every day, they take turns cleaning the inside of both fridges, they each clean one bathroom once a week, and they are 'forced' to help with other chores like weed-whacking, washing fingerprints off walls, dusting etc once a week... I also expect proper table manners, completed homework, proper hygiene... and I'm STILL on their backs about it all the time for a few days whenever they come back from their dad's. By day 3 they're in... but it gets old having to remind them of the expectations ever.damn.time.
It sounds like what you are
It sounds like what you are trying to instill in her are good "habits". If she gets into the automatic mode of rinsing the dish or putting away her toys when done, she is going to learn how to keep her area tidy as she goes through life.
I think as long as you give her "cheerful reminders" instead of "scolding rebukes" when she forgets it's not being to heavy handed.
To me, strict is about being
To me, strict is about being inflexible and severe, not about having rules. I don't know how you enforce your rules about tidiness, so I don't know how strict you are.
In my case, my kid is approaching 4, and I am teaching her the skills she'll need to achieve her goals in life. She has to tidy up after herself, but sometimes the job looks really big. She still has to do it, and only sometimes does anyone else actually lift a finger, but she is learning how to: break a big job into small parts, make each part fun, take a break and come back to it, do a little bit now so there's less to do later.
I have very similar rules, except I care less about her room being tidy and rinsing dishes is still iffy.
Yeah I guess that might be
Yeah I guess that might be where he feels i'm uptight. I can patiently ask her and remind her over and over again, but at the end of the day, she comes home from her mother's with this attitude like what you're saying isn't important. She will look directly at the TV and not pay attention to what i'm asking (like if i'm asking her to put her dishes away they're still sitting on the table). I ask nicely first, but than I get pretty agitated because I would NEVER have been allowed to blatantly ignore an adult's request at 6 years old.
He understands it's rude of her and jumps in to tell her to listen to me, but feels I should be more patient because it's not her fault her mother lets her get away with that kind of behaviour. While I understand it's not her fault, it's a habit I feel needs to be broken IMMEDIATELY when she gets home.
I think you can take a few
I think you can take a few different approaches.
Here's what I would do in the exact situation you describe.
Step 1. Preparation. Decide the tone and environment you want to live in, and announce it, often.
* For me, that would include having a coming-home ritual. Anything from everyone sitting together at the table to have a tea/juice, to SD having 15 minutes in her room to reacquaint herself. Everyone adjusts to change differently, but it always helps to have the change acknowledged in some way.
* I would talk often about how good listening and good manners leads to a happy sunshinex, and a happy sunshinex loooooves to take good listeners with good manners to the playground, or to let them watch tv, or to dance with them to Elvis, or to read extra stories... whatever the current happy-place is.
Step 2 Planning. I would decide how I want to interact with SD on requests like that. In my house, if it's not urgent, then I usually say, "When you're done what you're doing, would you please do xyz." It takes the pressure off - she doesn't have to interrupt what she's busy with, which is important to her, and she can do what I ask as well. BUT I would make sure there is a clear agreement. If she didn't respond in a way I felt was clear, I'd clarify, "SD, will you be doing xyz when you're finished what you're doing, or will you be doing it right away?" (That usually gets an answer!)
If it were urgent, I'd ask her to do it right away as part of whatever the global task is (put shoes on as we're going for a walk, etc). If there was no response, I'd evaluate whether the global task is for my advantage or hers. If it's going for a walk, meh, I can skip it. But she loooooves it. So I'd say, "It seems like you're not doing as you're asked. That's ok, but then we won't be going for our walk." Again, that gets a response - either she hops up to do as she's been asked, or she agrees to no walk.
If the task is for me, like I need to get to work on time, then I'd say, "Ok, I'm setting the timer for FIVE minutes! Let's see if you can go to the toilet AND get your shoes on before the timer goes!" Or something like that. Sometimes in a less positive tone, and sometimes I might have to add "Or I'll have to carry you to the car!" Or something equally drastic (my independent girl does not like to be carried unless SHE requests it).
Step 3 Consequences. If things are really degenerating, and it's clearly not about whether the task is beyond her skills or soemthing, AND you have time, I'd go to the 1-2-3 method. I'd say, "SD, I've asked you twice (or three times, whatever your limit is) to do xyz. It seems like you're not listening. I'm going to count to 3, and if you still haven't done it, you'll have to go to your room for five minutes."
In my house, this is a big deal. It's not actually about putting her in her room, it's about interrupting her fun time for long enough to push the re-start button. My kid finds it awful, although one of her friends just does it and comes out with a good attitude. My kid can take 20 minutes to comply, but that's her personality. If it gets that far, I always start fresh by explaining what went wrong (short and simple), asking for an apology, then hugs, kisses, and a fresh start. The not listening is forgotten and I never mention it again (to her), but whatever it was that she was asked to do still has to be done.
Step 4 Strategy. I would talk about all this stuff, all the time. Role playing games. Compliments about how much you like that she is a great listener and a great helper. Talk about how you're going to do xyz to help your DH, or to help her, even though you don't really want to do it right now. Let her in on that inner monologue.
Because, bottom-line, the problem you had was not about keeping thing tidy. It was about you asking for cooperation and not getting it, but what you WANTED to do was ask for cooperation and be able to require it. You have to position yourself for success.
Thank you so much! This was
Thank you so much! This was so well thought out and it's super helpful advice.
You're absolutely right. Bottom-line, it's not really about things being kept tidy, it's about having the respect to do what you're asked. I was actually just talking to my husband about this because the problem has been continuing today. I went downstairs around lunch-time (I work from home) to grab lunch and asked SD if she was hungry. She blatantly ignored me and continued watching TV. I repeated myself twice than laughed and said "whatever I just won't talk to her" to my husband. She came around when I was finishing getting my lunch ready and heading back to my office and asked for something to eat. I told her "sorry SD, you will have to ask later. I have to get back to work. I asked you earlier but you didn't listen or respond."
Anyways... I told my husband it feels really hurtful because quite honestly, I do a lot for SD and I deserve a bit more respect, especially while I'm pregnant. She's creating more work for me by not listening and I'm starting to get resentful really fast. I just want to relax, I don't want to have to chase someone around and remind them of simple rules, let alone be ignored and have to repeat myself multiple times. I'm tired. I have no energy. I'll try some of these tactics, and if all else fails, tell DH he's responsible for ensuring house rules are followed until I have more energy.
You don't have to repeat
You don't have to repeat yourself, or feel disrespected.
Announce your boundaries. She is 'just' a kid and this is unfamiliar territory for her. So explain the pitfalls to her, before you're irritated.
"Hi SD, it's lunchtime. TV off and it's time to get lunch ready."
*no response*
"SD, did you hear me? It's time to turn the TV off." Pause. "SD, if watching TV means you don't listen anymore, you won't be able to watch anymore TV today." Pause. Go over and turn off the TV, remove cable. Make lunch.
Expect a fit of course, but be patient, calm, the very picture of understanding... and stand firm. Next time, guess what? She'll listen. Because you staying calm and relaxed reassures her, you setting and enforcing a boundary reassures her, and because now she trusts you to do what you say... without conflict.
I think it must be confusing for a kid who is seeking limits to just find conflict instead. They don't understand the big picture that we are reacting to.
I'm the same way as you with
I'm the same way as you with the tidiness rule in my house. It drives me batsh*t crazy when things are cluttered and out of sorts. Fortunately for me, my DH doesn't tend to argue about the rules in the house, and my SD15 keeps her door shut all the time. She is a genuinely tidy person, but I couldn't tell you on any given day if her bed was made or her room was a mess. I am never in there. My SD also visits her mother every summer and when younger, we had the same problem you have. Just be patient. She is young and it's harder for her to jump back into the household rules. Just keep up the friendly reminders. If after some time she isn't "remembering" then dad needs to step in and have a talk with her.
I am wondering if it might be
I am wondering if it might be useful to sit and explain to her that you both understand that there are different rules at her mum's house and that you understand how that could be a little confusing for her and then just ask HER what the rules of this house are? tell her it's like school has some rules and home has different rules. By getting her to remember and tell you what the rules are in your home, she then gets to take responsibility and it's fairer to her to give her an opportunity to remember and do it for herself. also provides a chance to remind her of anything she has forgotten. Again this is fair. And it's a nice open communication that does not make her mother wrong.
If you start this as a tradition when she comes back that you all sit down and go over the rules, it will eventually become second nature to her. You could even make it a game with flashcards or something so it's fun.
I think your rules are
I think your rules are reasonable for a child. I know its hard to manage kids when they come back from their other parents house who have no rules or standards. You just have to stay in their butts about it when they come home and they will be back on track. It is a hassle to have to retrain kids every time they come back from a visit but its just part of the job. And you can be as "uptight" as you want to be in YOUR HOUSE lol. I was called uptight and rigid too because of my tidy and orderly ways but I don't care because its my house and its clean!
It's funny because my husband
It's funny because my husband is the first person to start running around putting things away/tidying if someone says they're coming over or dropping by! So my rules are uptight, yet when we don't follow them, you feel the need to ACT like you have a clean orderly home for guests?? It makes no sense to me. Just keep the damn house clean if you want guests coming to a clean house.
I'd be a very happy person if
I'd be a very happy person if DH followed your rules (basic learning to be a good person and respectful of others - not strict!) for my SD11 and SD13.
Example:
Last night I got home before everyone. Dishes stacked in sink, filthy stove and counter. Clean dishes in dishwasher. I fed cats and walked away.
DH comes home in a flurry, got to store later than he would have liked. Has to unload dishwasher, clean kitchen, put away groceries AND make dinner by himself. Mind you the dirty dishes were solely from him, SD11, her TF, and SD13 all day.
After dinner is ready I straighten up a couple things from his snowball-effect at dinner making (he is the messiest cook I've ever met and he hates that I do this but I don't want to do it AFTER dinner when I want to relax). SD13 is called from her bedroom (where she was just lying around, online or reading).
We eat, I clean up (SD13 does actually help a little) the kitchen and then see the floor - clearly things have been dropped all day long. And this is the second time in 3 days this has happened. I start picking stuff up and then say, "What am I doing?!" And throw it down again. DH sees this, gets irritated...blah blah...we cool off a bit and I tell him, "Hey, you know what? I'm not mad that I'm the one who usually, but not always you do it sometimes too, who usually cleans up the dropped things. My issue is there's TWO other persons in the house completely capable of picking up the stuff that drops or drips onto the floor or cupboards. They are not five any longer. You understand? I'm not going to clean it up any longer."
Those SDs were home all day and they, and DH allowed them to do NOTHING.
I get to institute no rules or ramifications, so I do NOTHING to help.
DH is finally seeing the light, but sooooooooooo slowly and then he gets scared of actually telling them what to do that he does a 180. Which is why I refuse to discuss it or give him any opinions about his 'plans' with SDs, whatever they may be. You want to discuss how to save $ on driving them places...you can do x, y or z to help with that and maybe SDs have to compromise on some things (you know, life skills again) while you help with some things but NO. SDs (esp. SD13 again today) get exactly what they want. And I let him deal with it 100%.
Of course children will
Of course children will gravitate to the house with the least amount of rules. You can be glad that you are the custodial parents and not NCP. You can't imagine how difficult it is to try to instill these very same good habits when you only see the children two weekends out of the month. In our case the CP BM is the slob with no rules, which is often the case.
As regards your DH thinking that you are too uptight with rules, no you are not, but that does not negate the fact that most custodial dads always feel they are on the brink of losing custody to the BM so they feel they must placate the child or stoop to the BM's level. Generally speaking the court system is geared towards favoring the BM and making her CP so one tiny little incident can send custody back to the BM.
As a side note, I do hope that she is paying you guys CS.
Keep doing you!
Those rules are totally acceptable - don't change a thing. I don't think they are being too strict at all. You are putting guidelines and expectations on this little girl and this will be a valuable life lesson. I deal with kind of the same thing too. When my kids come to my house, they think we are so strict - pretty similar rules to yours. When they go to their dads, they have no rules and can do whatever they want - stay up as late as they want, leave dishes out, eat in rooms, etc. It is very frustrating.
Does he realize that small
Does he realize that small children eating wherever they want results in filth and pests? Seriously, your floors, furniture, and walls would get disgusting in just a day or two.
Your rules sound 100% reasonable and normal to me. Your rules are basically: don't be a slob.
I know this is really hard on you right now, especially with you being pregnant. But what you're doing now will pay off tenfold in the future.