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follow the money....

IAmALady77's picture

http://www.steptalk.org/node/4926

I just read this in one of the other forums and I was going to reply but then I realized it was written like 4 years ago so I dont think it would matter...

So my thoughts on this are...lets say you were never married but had a child together...I think that whoever can afford to care for the child WITHOUT CS should get PC. Im not really explaining this right because Im in a hurry but its just kinda bullshit that these deadbeat BMs automatically get custody but then they use the CS for bullshit things and then complain that they are so poor. Some will argue that it takes more then CS to put a roof over a childs head, provide food shelter, ect ect...but I think if you can't supply the basic neccessities then you shouldnt have brought a child into this world in the first place....IDK just annoyed I guess.

For example, My SO "ruined" BMs life because he "didn't pull out" LOL and now she is living in her sisters basement while we have our own house that we OWN and are living OK. She wants more money all the time. Why? Not because SD needs anything more then what we provide for her...she does not go without when with us...but because BM can't afford her own rent and SD is "suffering". Well, then give us PC. She doesn't "suffer" in our care!

Any thoughts?

bi's picture

i couldn't agree more about parents who can't/won't support their kids losing their rights. bd's POS sperm donor has never done a damn thing for her. i called the court and asked them how long a parent could go without seeing their child before losing their rights and the snotty bitch i talked to told me rather shittily "until they're 18!" oh, ok. so he can just disappear off the face of the earth, never inquiring about her well being, never paying a dime in support, but if he shows up when she's 17 and demands to see her, i have to let him? try again, bitch? i'm not playing that game. i will take his ass to court first.

fortunately, that will never happen. he has seen her a few times at his mother's house and when she referred to fdh as "my dad", he got pissed and told her "I'M your dad!" hehe. she set his ass straight right quick. she told him all he is to her is a sperm donor, that fdh raised her and treats her like a father, and HE is the one who is her dad. i think he knows better than to come knocking and expect anything other than a RO.

but back to the point, yeah, if they are refusing to do what they need to do to take care of their kids, they should have no rights at all. if the CP just decided to not spend any money to feed, clothe and house the kid, CPS would take the kid away. so why is it right for the NCP to do exactly that with no consequences? he shouldn't get a free pass to be a POS just because I'M doing my job right and because i've always taken on his responsibilities as well because he refused.

herewegoagain's picture

The child should stay with the wealthier parent unless:

1. the other parent can provide a home, clothing, food, etc...without anyone's help at the time of the divorce/split
2. the wealthier parent is not abusive or a drunk, etc.

stormabruin's picture

"my DD was raised very very modestly, and she is very undemanding and humble as adult. "
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And humility will take one farther in life than money ever could. Learning to do without all of the luxuries will make them less important as they get older, & will help them learn to truly appreciate even the smallest blessings so much more.

IAmALady77's picture

Thank you ryhleighblue...exactly what I was trying to communicate from my head lol.

GoodbyeNormaJean's picture

There is a reason human children don't hatch from an egg and raise themselves autonomously.

Both parents should be responsible for raising children. Financially responsible as well as physically responsible.

All of this could be prevented if each individual took responsibility for their own reproduction and if people were a little more careful who they procreated with instead of doing whatever feels good at the time and then letting kids flap in the wind with the consequences.

Anon2009's picture

I don't think it should be black and white. I think these things should be handled on a case-by-case basis. The wealthier parent, during the marriage, left the majority of the parenting up to the other parent. Or the wealthier parent could have a violent temper, be an abuser, or have other serious problems that could jeopardize the children.

Then we have cases where the children are obviously jeopardized because the CP CHOOSES not to work, and often uses the CS on trips to the hair salon for themselves, a nice new car for themselves, designer clothes for themselves, etc., while the NCP is scraping to get by and the kids in question are going without. Those kids should automatically go to the NCP and BM should lose custody and be made to get therapy.

HadEnoughx5's picture

In our situation, BM brings in lots of money by not working. In addition she has a live in boyfriend and her brother living there too. Yet, she is always saying she can't afford things and that my Dh is cheap. BM is the cheap one. She will spend money on herself and trips for herself. Yet the skids will look like crap. BM sleeps around and introduces these guys to the skids. BM is PASing the skids and also drops the skids anywhere someone will take care of them. However, she will not let Dh have extra time with them.

My Dh does make more money, has morals and is a very involved Dad. He's great Dad and I hope he wins this custody battle.

mamamomo's picture

Even though I have a college degree it is impossible for me to make as much money as my ex does. He does manual labor at a plant working 12+ every day therefore he makes overtime every week. Since he works so many hours he would not be at home to put our daughter on the bus or get her off the bus, help with school functions, take her to girl scouts, help with homework, cook dinner, do bath time, take her to music lessons, take her to dance class, take her to soccer practice, u get the idea. Of course I could get another job and that would make our incomes equal but then I would be working more hours and then who would do all these things for our daughter. I do all the hands on things with my daughter and her dad pays cs to help make her life a little more financially comfortable we are a team and it works well why should she live with him?

IAmALady77's picture

It sounds like the 2 of you have a great relationship and things work out really well for you. This post is obviously not reffering to you at all. But thank you, and I am happy (and kind of jealous) that you and your ex can put your childs needs before your own.

IAmALady77's picture

I wasn't saying that the "wealthiest" parent should get PC, I was saying that the parent that can PROVIDE for the child without solely relying on CS should get PC. Of course there are other circumstances for sure such as overall who is the better caretaker and it should go by a case by case basis....BUT lets say that that the BM can not afford rent, partakes in PAS and is all around just a POS...but still has PC, but the NCP OWNS their home, cares for his children immensly and can provide for them, then why does he not have PC? It just annoying to say the least that these woman can spend the CS on unnecessay things but then turn around and get kicked out of their apartment? It even states in most CA's that custody is decided on a list of things, one of those things being the ability to provide adequate shelter for your child. Wealth and gender really have nothing to do with this argument.

mamamomo's picture

I think we can agree that it's not really an issue about child support at all the best parent that will take the best care of their child should have custody regardless of CS. All of our money gets put together my paychecks+CS it all goes to the same place and I do go on a regular basis to the salon and keep my nails done but I can also say that my BD's sit right beside me and get their mani/pedi right along with mommy when I go shopping we all go shopping when I pay mortgage it comes out of my checking account which means I am using my pay and CS to pay the bills. BM's that run around with their children looking like ragdolls while they spend all the CS on stuff for themselves shouldn't have their kids because they are bad parents all the way around it has nothing to do with CS or who makes more money

IAmALady77's picture

^yes.

PeanutandSons's picture

That's not every case though. If our bms actually paid thier child support (which they don't incidentally) they would be contributing 200 a month..... So hardly "supporting two households".

There is such a wide range of situations that no one answer or policy will correctly address everyone. Even growing up, my dad paid my mom child support, but he still did a lot more trips and fun things with us. His time was all about fun, and he only had to entertain us for a few days a month, whereas my.mom had all the.household.bills and responsibilities. But, my dad didn't remarry so he only needed a one bedroom apt, and saved his money til he had us.

PeanutandSons's picture

I did see that you said usually. I was just pointing out (maybe not clearly enough) that I don't think that is the usual situation. Most of the people I know of, its the opposite of that. Where the custodial parent has less disposable income, and the visitation parent has lots of disposable income and time for fun visits.

I don't think there is a "usual" in custody and cs, there's too many variables.

IAmALady77's picture

^that is not what I said at all...I even said there are other variables. OBVIOUSLY your ex is a pos and Im so happy for you that you got out of that situation. Im saying in general, costody should go by a case by case basis as to who can provide for the child financially and emotionally, who is better equipped to raise a child...instead of just automatically handing the kids to the mother. Both parties should have to prove that they are worthy of raising the child. Naturally, if that was the case you would have "won" because your ex is an abuser and deserves to be castrated.

KeepingMySanity's picture

Birth control still fails, if you don't want to have children and pay child support - don't have sex

hippiegirl's picture

Be careful what you wish for.....if you get PC it will change the dynamics of everything. Suddenly, a kid that you used to be able to tolerate becomes a kid you CAN"T STAND. I know, it sucks that BMs are greedy. They just don't like their ex to move on and be happy.

IAmALady77's picture

For example again:

There is a father.
There is a mother.

The father and mother were never married.

In TODAYS courts, if they split up, custody AUTOMATICALLY goes to the mother. If the father wants to be a part of his childs life he has to FIGHT for it. EVEN if the mother is a POS and doesn't even want the children.

What I think SHOULD happen (in an ideal world)..

Mother and FAther split up. They both go to court and present their cases as to who should have PC and why.

For example. Father owns his home, child will have a bedroom, child will have food to eat, child will be loved and raised morally ect ect. Father is not abusive. Father does not drink or partake in drugs. Father has no record.

Mother can not hold down a job. Mother keeps getting evicted from apartments. Mother can not provide adequate shelter for child. Mother can not provide food for child. Mother has a record. Mother Drink and partakes in illegal activities.

this can also go vice versa. A judge should look at both parties right away and decide who should have PC. Not just giving PC to the mother, hoping for the best and leaving the FAther to fight for his children, all the while the children are being subjected to PAS and who knows what other psychological damage. If this was just taken care of in the very beggining then we wouldnt have NEARLY the amount of problems we have. POS mothers couldn't use their kids as pawns and to get more money or control the fathers anymore because it wouldnt work that way anymore. I didnt mean, whoever has the most MONEY should automatically get custody. That is retarded.

mamamomo's picture

I dont think so from personal experience and from experiences of several close friends Joint custody is almost always awarded to both parents unless there is proof that this is not the best option for the child. Domiciliary custody is usually given to the parent that the child has been living with to keep stability unless there is proof that this is not the best option.

IAmALady77's picture

jadedprincess wrote this on one of my other threads and I completely agree...thought I would paste it here because it just makes sense!

*i think that there should be a psych evaluation during mediation/court and the more stable household should get PC i dont think that money should be an issue yes it would be nice if the mentally sane parent made the most money but in the end money doesnt buy sanity just pills to help you fake it*

my.kids.mom's picture

The problem isn't the money in who gets custody, it's how each parent will parent after the split. Women are bitter in more cases than the man being bitter; most children are better off with more time with dad than mom. And giving one person physical custody and one person "visitation" is messed up. They only do that to justify child support. While I understand what you all are saying, there are families who have a sahm who takes care of the kids while the husband works full time. If they divorce...what should happen? This happened to me, but luckily I had started a home business when my kids were toddlers/babies and it was enough to support us. As already mentioned, there are SO many variables. The entire system needs to be revamped. I think they should do away with lawyers, and psychologists should do home studies, mediate with the couple, and work out a viable solution for everyone. Psychs can learn a LOT when dealing with people in this scenario.