After meeting with our counsellor this week
I was trying to explain how in a family sometimes people don't get to do what they want to or miss out on activities because it's not the best thing for all members of the family - that others needs and wants have to be considered as well,
But I don't think I was explaining myself very clearly, and I have been thinking about how it underlines some particular differences in mine and OH's parenting styles.
His thoughts are that he is responsible for his two and me for my two (younger ones, adult dd's don't really enter this equation) And that he should be allowed to make the decisions for his and me for mine - like taking his for special treats, to special places etc all the time if they want it, and mine miss out etc. I think that sometimes fair enough, with pre-planning we take them separately and do "fun" stuff, but that just giving his kids fun stuff all the time is not the right thing to do - not for them or anyone else in the family.
It led me to trying to create a definitive list of what I want for my children... I would like to take this to our next session in 2 weeks, to see if we can discuss it and work on getting on the same page with how they are being raised.
So I have a draft of my list below in the comments -
Please read, correct and add thoughts and opinions....
Much appreciated
(constructive would be great thanks 
)
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What I want for my
What I want for my children….
I want to raise them to be
fulfilled,
at peace,
happy,
considerate,
caring,
community minded,
kind,
capable,
independent,
determined,
hard-working,
fit,
healthy,
How will I achieve this?
The first group of attributes:
fulfilled,
at peace,
happy,
considerate,
caring,
community minded,
kind
Studies show that children who are raised to help others, to serve, to put aside personal “instant gratification” type happiness and learn how to consider the needs of others as well as their own grow up to be more personally fulfilled and happier adults.
Children who are taught that they are a small cog in a large wheel and that considering EVERYONE in the wheel is important learn to work with others, learn to consider the needs and wants of others, are more able to have empathy and do not need their every desire met in order to feel a superficial happiness – this type of happiness is short lived and not real, and soon enough has the recipient searching for their next “instant fix”
Teaching them to take pride and happiness from their achievements, and from making others happy leads to a more fulfilling deeper personal happiness.
So, sometimes my children do not get to do something they may want to do, because it is not always the best thing for OTHER people.
They do not always get treats just because they ask for them – but sometimes they do. They have been taught to give to charity, to offer assistance to other kids who seem upset, to new kids at school etc.
I am trying to teach them to be aware of other peoples needs and wants and to share their things and their time.
The second group of attributes:
capable,
independent,
determined,
hard-working,
intelligent
They are being taught to take care of themselves, not to look to other people to do everything for them. They are already able to make their own lunches and breakfasts (cereal, basic foods – sandwiches etc depending on age) When they turn 12 they will be responsible for choosing and cooking (with assistance if they need it) one family meal a week. They are responsible for their bedrooms and their possessions, they are encouraged to work hard and do chores to earn money to save for things that they want rather than always just expecting someone to pay for every thing they ask for. They are encouraged to complete homework, to read and to not sit in front of the idiot box or mindless computer games etc for TOO long… They are encouraged to work hard at school and bring home good reports and are rewarded for doing so.
The third group of attributes:
fit,
healthy
determined,
hard-working
(the bottom two there cross over I feel)
They are encouraged to take part in physical activities that they enjoy (dancing) They are taught to work hard, consider their “teams” and do their best, to practice and try and try until they achieve their goals. They are taught what foods are healthy, about the food pyramid and about every day foods, and sometimes foods, they know that they are presented with balanced healthy meals and they need to eat what is on their plates before they can have “treats” They know that they eat fruit and vegetables even if they don’t like them because their body needs them and they want to be fit and healthy.
What makes you think you were
What makes you think you were not explaining yourself clearly? It doesn't seem like a difficult concept to grasp. Was the counselor not reacting well to what you were saying? Did you feel like you were being put on the defensive.
Based on your description of your DH's parenting style and your parenting style, I don't see it as just a difference in styles. It's really a difference in core values, which I believe is a tough one to fix.
It just seems like DH is spoiling his kids and setting bad precedents for your kids. I understand giving parents room to parent their kids how they want, I don't see any problem with that. But when one parent is overly permissive and overindulges their kids, then that can be a problem.
Your DH should parent more like you, in my opinion. But I'm certain he disagrees with that. He wants to parent separately without you having a say so he can continue to be Disney dad without being held accountable. That's the way I see it.
Oh, and I like your list.
LMAO - yes that is actually
LMAO - yes that is actually how I see it too...
I wasn't as clear on the night, and OH is very persuasive LOL - when put on the spot he puts together a better argument than me if that makes sense?
OH does want to be free to do whatever he wants with and for his kids - he poses it that I can do the same for mine - but I actually DON'T want to raise mine that way!! But I just came across as being unreasonable - like - on Saturdays my girls have dancing from 9am-4pm so they take a packed lunch - they have classes and time between classes and it's a 40 min one way drive, a lot of kids are there all day and there is a lunch room/play room etc.
SS10 plays basketball at around lunchtime EVERY Saturday. OH never packs a lunch for them, they get up, eat breakfast and go out, sometimes they take a bottle of water sometimes not. So most Saturdays he will buy them Macca's for lunch, they then come home and skite to my girls about how they get Macca's every Saturday, and how when Dadddeeee drives them home to BM's he buys them slurpies and ice creams etc.
His argument is that sometimes they get caught out and he HAS to give them lunch LOL - I say pack it before you go like I do, he says :what's the big deal it's just Macca's
Yadda yadda yadda LOL
YES - see that is EXACTLY
YES - see that is EXACTLY what we were trying to discuss - the separate family thing - thanks - I will incorporate some of what you have said into my comments.
He says he wants "a blended family" (f*cker got the term from ME - but when he said it in counselling the counsellor just about gave him a freaking gold star for using the term - pissed me off LOL) but I don't think he really does - as you say - to really BLEND we need to have the same rules, boundaries and structure and work TOGETHER as parents to ensure that ALL the children feel equal in the family. THAT was the point I was trying to make.
I know this is beyond what
I know this is beyond what you asked but in my opinion a marriage counselor is supposed to help you with communicating your feelings. I thought that's what they were there for. I didn't know they got to give pats on the back to the spouse who's better at manipulating the conversation. I already don't care for your counselor. Maybe you can get your own different counselor for private sessions to help support you. Someone who knows the struggles of SMs. Who can help you outwit your DH's tactics.
If both sides don't come out of the counseling session feeling like they're getting a fair shake at being heard, and clearly, then that is more devisive and harmful to the relationship than not going at all, because now your DH feels his behavior has the counselor's blessing.
A marriage counselor should at least attempt to get you and DH on the same page. I know that doesn't always work but this counselor doesn't even seem to be trying. He/she is to easily conned by your DH's throwing out a few 'therapy terms.' what a bunch of hooey.
You shouldn't feel like is an uphill battle to get your feelings taken seriously. In fact you can tell the counselor you're not happy with how the sessions are going, be brutally honest and tell her you think DH is manipulating the conversation and that's not fair. She works for you!
I read somewhere that since
I read somewhere that since it is mostly the woman who initiates counselling counsellors are well aware that the man may be reluctant or unreceptive. Therefore some counsellors will take a prodigal son type approach, tiptoeing around the man, avoiding confrontation or criticism and warmly supporting any appearance of positive effort. Personally I find it frustrating bordering on offensive; you do your best to deal with all the dysfunction and baggage from a pre-owned man and his children, get to the point of desperation where you seek outside help, then find the counsellor can't or won't make any judgement calls to challenge his thinking and behaviour for fear of turning him off to counselling.
I recently went through a 3 month bout of relationship counselling with DH in which he sat there looking all calm and rational while I looked like an emotional wreck. Rather than thinking, gosh, I wonder if Bo is so upset because her husband's behaviour has been insensitive, hurtful and unreasonable the counsellor consistently challenged my thinking and behaviour rather than DH's. A previous counsellor a few years ago was much better and much more even handed and direct with DH. There are just bad or inexperienced counsellors who will make you feel worse not better. If you come out of the sessions feeling worse, and like you have to re-articulate everything because you don't feel heard and supported by your counsellor, then counselling is not working. Challenge the counsellor or find another one. Worst case scenario is a bad counsellor makes your partner feel their attitude and behaviour has been endorsed, and you end up feeling even more defeated.
Thanks ladies, i actually
Thanks ladies, i actually like the counsellor and think he does get it, but i know i wasn't as clear as i would have liked on this issue. I know that in this case it WAS me not articulating my thoughts very well.
We both had private sessions with the counsellor before attending as a couple, and have done two sessions together now.
He has already told OH that he seems like a procrastinator, avoids dealing with tough things, that being easy going and laid back is NOT always a good thing.
Has dropped into the conversation that each of our main focus needs to be each other not the kids, the relationship is the priority, that we need to get on the same page re the basic foundation stuff to make it work etc. Lots more but i have the flu and brain isnt functioning!
OOH OH I just remembered,!!!
OOH OH I just remembered,!!! Knew there was something else...
The counsellor also asked OH if perhaps he wanted to give his kids treats and fun times all the time because he felt guilty for not being there all the time!!!!
How could i forget that, did an internal fist pump lol
Of coure OH denied that this could be the case.....
But i think seeds are being planted, these are all things i have said in the past but hopefully someone professional just listening to us both and saying the same stuff (impartial) should get through???
Will see, i do feel positive after each sess. And so does OH, a good sign?