Cat & Mouse AKA the moment you all predicted...
WELL, its here, the moment of Truth and Divorce.
Husband is playing a game of Cat and Mouse and revealing himself here and there.
Apparently his big plan is to get a job as soon as unemployment runs out. And he will work on home improvements and keep track of time and labor, sell the house, divorce me and have a "fresh start". Sometime in the next who-knows.
But he would stay with me if I admit to my wrong-doing, and show him all my phone texts.
Its all a narc game. He feeds me hope, and see what happens, and see what he can get from me and then do his "fresh starting" after finding things Im doing wrong, or pushing my buttons to make me over the edge so he can make like Im crazy and poor him look what he has to deal with.
Ive had friends tell me he speaks poorly of me. Ive seen it and experienced it.
My friends tell me to get rid of him.
Folks, its hard. Ive put my love and energy and time and then more love into this for 11 years and its HARD for someone like me to let go. Recently he over heard me talk about my past and then spent the past few weeks digging at me, digging through pictures. I went through a photography phase and did photo sessions with various people - scandalous I know and yes they were all pretty clothed..
All this he uses to say that I am "closed off" and dont reveal important things to him so we cannot grow as a couple. Honestly an ex boyfriend from 30 plus years ago! He has been going through my facebook friends and likes and comments. All this is causing him "depression" and so he must "start fresh". And this is all a freaking GAME. I figured it out. Hes a narc that never loved me I was the Golden Goose Resource that got him through his divorce to Toxic Troll, raising and supporting his kids, and whatever else he could get from me.
I get it now. My crazy friend who went bezerker on him - she reached out to me and told me that she has seen how he is. I didnt completely believe it all until now and she was right. Hes a narcissist.
His newest thing is the facebook cat and mouse of block me, create a new profile picture and background, see how many likes and comments (80 plus can you beleive it) and then unblock me. And then hes now going to re-block me so he can make whatever comments he wants to...its crazy making but I finally have figured it out and what to do. I got him to confirm his plans for divorce and am currently researching a divorce attorney that I can afford as well as reading up on the codes for asset division. Im at a disadvantage as he is unemployed by choice, and I might have to pay him spousal support for roughly half our marriage (7 years this July = 3.5 years) plus half my retirement fund (a nice chunk), plus half the house unless I can leverage and buy him out somehow.
I can just see everything ive been working towards disappearing...
But Im a fighter and I wasnt raised to go down without a fight, guns blazing. I will fight to keep my sanity, my self esteem and my house.
- CLove's blog
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I'm sorry to hear this
Yes, divorce attorney asap. Looking into a divorce is devastating, I've been thru it. But I promise there is a new, better life once it's over. Be careful, these can be dangerous times. Hang in there, Clove.
Im doing that today
Got the references and will call for appointments and costs.
Im definitely being cautious. Ive seen how ice-cold he can be at times, while pretending to have emotions at other times.
He sounds nuts. I'm so sorry
He sounds nuts. I'm so sorry you are going through this. TBH, it's probably best to get away from him as soon as possible. He doesn't sound stable. I worry for you.
To call him insufferable
To call him insufferable would be putting it nicely. You're a sweetheart, and if getting rid of him costs you half of everything (I hope and pray it won't), it would still be a fair trade to be free. Assets can be replaced or rebuilt. Time can't be replaced and you shouldn't waste another minute on this worthless man. Take care of yourself!
Thank you Felicity
Hes being an a$$hole and hes been that way for longer than I want to consider.
Im going to fight reasonably for the house, and let go of what I have to.
Im older now, and will grieve later, act now - time is precious.
Just one more thing...
Don't go into this being reasonable. Demand WAY more than you think you're entitled to and negotiate down to what you consider fair.
Don't try to sweeten the pill for him. Above all, don't even THINK about playing fair, you want what is rightfully yours, no matter if it causes him hardship (it's payback time).
I am so sorry. I know how
I am so sorry. I know how hard, really, really hard, it is to walk away from something you have worked for for so long to build. It is hard to start over.
It takes resilience, acceptance and courage. I have gotten to the point in life where personal peace is what I value more than anything else. No material possession, no house, no relationship is worth more than peace, worth more than enjoying this current moment of life to the fullest.
There is a future waiting for you beyond what you are dealing with in this current moment. "Every storm runs out of rain."
May you handle this the best way possible for you!
Peace
That is what I have kept asking for from him, and he is awake into the morning looking for something that isnt there...and creating chaos.
Work with your
Work with your friend who filed charges against him, hire a pitbull divorce attorney and destroy this narc POS.
No need for you to get mean, let your pit bull do that.
You have tons of witnesses. Put them all on the stand and let your pit bull chum the divorce waters with his bleeding character ass baring as your parade of witnesses destroy him with his own words.
Be kind to yourself and take care of you.
Don't waste any more time
Don't waste any more time trying to find info on your rights - that's what your lawyer is for (and make sure they're a SHARK). Your apology for a husband needs to be taken to the cleaners and left with nothing after the appalling way he has treated you over the years. Tell your lawyer that you want to get back the money you have paid for HIS CS etc. over the years. You also want compensation for his treatment of you, allowing his daughters to insult and attack you spending all his free time with the barnacle and not his wife, etc. Don't forget the incidents where you were provoked and then recorded.
Go for the jugular, CLove. You want compensation for all of those years.
Any funding of his bills or
Any funding of his bills or CS that she did would be considered a gift unless she has promissory note or a verbal agreement stating that he would repay it to her throughout the marriage. This is why ppl on this website keep telling others to NEVER EVER help pay for CS...Many have helped pay for CS and once the court order was final, the father left them to get back with BM or didn't bother to help them when they had a financial problem of their own
Don't support your husband financially unless they are sick or disabled. These situations never work out.
Compensation
Luckily I did nothing to pay for child support nor spousal support, although I did a LOT of freebie stuff like tax returns where TT got money for child tax credit, rides and clothes and supplies paid for school etc.
We have existed somewhat equally. For the most part. He charges me parts for my car repair and I get "free" labor. I pay into bills and sundries and half the mortgage and taxes.
And I will definitely get with a lawyer and keep my head on straight and my senses clear.
Thanks for reminding me of the bad treatment. I cant get that time back.
Clove, I'm sorry he is being
Clove, I'm sorry he is being fully revealed as a snake. But, as difficult as it is... I would go forth with your head high.. and with no mercy.
Find the BEST lawyer.. the one known for leaving nothing but a bit of sinew on the bones of the other lawyer and their client. Do this ASAP.. because there is a good chance you may want to hire a private investigator.. and see if they can get to some of the real truth of what your stbx (nice ring to that).. is doing.
Among the information they may find.. working under the table.. the more you can "prove" that he has been more employed than he has down on paper the better... it will reduce the level of obligation you may have to paying spousal support.. Because if he is "voluntarily" unemployed.. AND working for cash under the table.. yeah.. that will make the court less inclined to reward him right? Remember.. .you know at least one person he has worked for... and I'm sure you probably can find more too.
Get your hands on ANY and ALL financial records you can find.. right now.. asap.. any records of accounts he may have etc.. do some digging. Your lawyer may have some ideas on how hidden accts could be discovered? Like get copies of canceled checks.. or debit card reciepts.. for accounts you don't recognize..
I'm not sure about his share of the house.. it sounds like his intent is to try to "work on it".. and somehow reduce YOUR share of it by charging you in a way.. for the work he does. I think there may be some precedence for giving someone credit for value that increases the market value of the home.. but I don't know that it's a one for one kind of thing.. Let's say he claims it took him 500 hours to renovate the bathroom at 20 dollars an hour... plus 8K in materials. That doesn't mean he would necessarily be able to get credit for putting 15K into the home... because let's say in real estate market.. an updated value might get you an additional 6K.. which means that what would be factored in would be that half of that increased value would come off what you would get.. so only 3K not 9K(half of his time and materials). And here's the kicker.. and you need to document the state of your home right now... the likelihood that a homeowner self helps themselves into adding value? Is it to code.. is it the quality of repair that would be done by a professional? Often times those homegrown upgrades hurt the value.
So, quickly do the best research you can to get the best lawyer and get in front of them asap.. he may have already done that for himself.. so no time to waste here.
And.. finally.. you need to master the grey rock countenance here... no folding of cards.. no revealing your plans.. or your motivations..or your feelings.
He accuses.. "I'm sorry you think that.. you know I would never do x"
He tries to bait you with threats of his clean start".. try to listen as carefully as you can.. as you said.. he does reveal plans here.. and he asks "what do you have to say".. "I don't know.. sounds like you have your mind made up.. nothing for me to say I guess.. "
Don't engage in arguments.. in rehashing slights and accusations.. just leave it.. even if it means you don't feel like you are able to defend yourself.. just let it go.. no point in winning the argument here.. wait until you WIN in court.
Also, while it may not seem like it.. there are two sides to everything.. if he is entitled to half of the increase in your retirement over the the past 10 years.. you are entitled to half of things HE has ammassed in the past 10 years.. the boats.. the cars.. may be titled in his name only.. but gee.. aren't they also a form of asset/savings that gets put in the mix? Make sure you know EXACTLY what the retail market value of those items are!
Again.. do not be merciful here.. he isn't going to be.. and you are entitled to things... just as much as he may think he is. If you have old texts where you may have discussed whether he goes back to work or not and his "plans to wait for friend's job" etc.. get those together.. they can paint a picture of a guy willfully not reentering the workforce. If he is on unemployment.. most have a work application rule.. is he violating that by? Is he just giving them false applications? something to think about and tell your lawyer too.. does the unemployement board need to know this? does the court?
finally.. I'm sorry this is where you are.. but get you to a lawyer.. it's more important than pretty much any other thing you have going on right now.. work.. medical appts.. anything.
My standard phrases right now
I really just think you need a regular job and regular sleep schedule and to go to the gym in between.
I love you and only you
whatever you think is best
Sorry to hear about the
Sorry to hear about the "truth" of your husband. At this point, I don't think you should have any trust in him whatsoever. Loss of trust is the worst, so I'm sure that will not be easy.
Have you heard of the Sunk Cost Fallacy? It can apply to many situations, including relationships. It's the error in thinking that you would "waste" your previous investment if you didn't continue to prop up the investment. But you can't really recover previous investments of time and energy either way. Best wishes on the tough road ahead.
Ive definitely heard of that
In this case its not so much the sunk costs as the fear of repercussions, of being alone. So many women have told me "how lucky are you, life without a man to take care of things, fix things is SO HARD".
And he has hammered that in to my brain that Im "lucky to have a good guy in my life committed to only me", etc.
The “things” he does around
The “things” he does around the house you can either learn to do yourself or hire somebody to do it, when you really are done with a person you begin to realize that the things they “contribute” aren’t all that useful.
Let me tell you that all the
Let me tell you that all the "things" a man takes care of are not even worth considering if he's also a constant drain on your physical and emotional energy and well-being. I was so worried about being a single mom and of taking care of the house and cars myself, that I put up with an insane amount of mistreatment. But I found that taking care of all that stuff myself was a million times easier when the burden of constantly carrying the mental load of dealing with XH was removed.
Clove, Just a few things I
Clove, Just a few things I thought about in addition to what I already posted.
Now is the time to be on your A-Game. As difficult as this all is.. the lying.. the betrayal.. the scheming.. cooler head must prevail.
So.. If you still enjoy an occasional glass of wine.. stop. You need to be 100% clear headed at all times going forward.. your stbx has proven he is unpredictable.. you may need to flee. He has proven combative.. and sober, you are less likely to be goaded into poor behavior.. yelling etc..
Consider having your vehicle checked for tracking devices.. same with your electronic devices.. I know you say he is a tech idiot.. but you would be surprised what people can figure out when motivated.. you don't want him having access to communication with your legal advisors. Take a look around for hidden cameras in your home too... and to be honest.. whether you find anything or not.. consider that you probably have to act like every move and communication is being recorded at all times.. whether he is around or not.
If you have valuables that belong to you in the home.. financial or sentimental.. slowly start getting them out of there.. even if you may intend to try to buy him out of the house.. they are at risk if they are in there.
Lock down your own financial documents.. bank statements.. credit card statements.. investments.. retirement statements.. he may end up requesting them in discovery for the divorce.. but don't give him unfettered access now.
If you, at any time, feel threatened by him.. call the authorities.. and if necessary.. file a restraining order.. it will keep him on his heels if you actually mete out consequences.. and it will help your case in court.
If you do have proof of your paying for his child support or other obligations.. you can pull that support together.. but unfortunately.. I don't believe you will get any credit or repayment of any of those funds you gave willingly to your husband.. focus on what your LAWYER tells you and follow their advice.
all of this!!!
all of this!!!
A-game is on
Thank you ESMOD, for your clarity during this fuzzy off kilter time Im going through.
I have been largely abstaining from alcohol, and sleeping a LOT, trying to stay healthy and keep my spirits (non alcohol spirits) up. The times he "gets to me" are when Ive been drinking excessively, so now he thinks Im cheating and acting "shady" hiding my texts.
So my approach has been as you and others described. I know Im smarter than him, but hes street smart and this isnt his first marriage-to-divorce rodeo.
- Im trying to figure out who has my back and who has HIS back and who is neutral.
- Im calling lawyers to figure out my costs and get into a meeting. I have sick time and vacation time available, which I am taking for both business (legal) and pleasure.
- Im abstaining (mostly) from alcohol and keeping clear in that way
- sleeping early to bed and off to work early.
- researching tracking devices.
- planning a time when he isnt there to photograph the cars and boats and go through papers for bank accounts, credit accounts. Im going to get super organised and ready. He knows how to keep things not in his name and hide assets.
- according to my friend, his admission to hurting me sexually is grounds for felony. I am hesitant to mention that aspect here, but theres a card in my hand that I can play if I have to.
Thank you!
He will work on the
House as fast as he's looking for work. Where is going to get the money to make house improvements ? Nothing is free ..
Get a lawer now.
He did move the fishtank
He did move the fishtank from the living room and spoke of redoing the carpet, which now I know is going to be for the impending house sale for his "fresh start" because hes so depressed over my imagined infidelities.
I haven't been on here for a
I haven't been on here for a while as I am dealing with my own overwhelming problems but when I saw your post I had to react if not to give you support, at least advice/info based on my personal knowledge
I think you are in California which is a community property state so any assets purchased during the marriage would have to be divided between both parties during the divorce. I hope the house was purchased before the marriage and I hope you didn't add his name to the deed, or else unfortunately he will be entitled to half of it...The good news is that if he decides to go for this route, you can claim co-ownership of his multiple cars as well and hold that over his head.
Unemployment is considered legal income so he wouldn't be entitled to spousal support. You said he recently got unemployed in January, so it's not like you have demonstrated significant years of supporting him financially which would set a precedent.
In the meantime, you have to be a good actress. Start trying to be cool with him and claim that you are so in love and make him believe you want him to stay (sleep with him if you must) until you have all your ducks in a row and he stops fighting you...Offer to go to counseling and work things out (this is just to pacify him until you figure it out and plan just like he is doing)
Keep in mind he will flip flop around you because he needs you until he finds a job or another woman (or most likely got back with his BM)
Document certain issues like alcoholism, drug abuse and financial abuse/irresponsibility.
Actress-ing
Yes, Ive been very matter-of-fact just the calm facts please and thank you. We are very polite with each other. He has asked for my help in getting the 2 puppies (HIS 2 puppies) fixed through charity as well as the fafsa for his youngest.
Ive been cool calm and yes, tried the sex route to put him off the scent of something wrong. Didnt work. He came back around with his suspiciousness, and accusations. As a reason or way of legitamising his bad treatment of me.
Im going to find out how much it will take for me to buy him out of the house, and if at this point its at all doable. The worst case is that I can cash out with a significant gain for a downpayment on something for me to start my own "fresh start".Its joint tenancy with right of survivorship with his name on the deed.
But yes, if I can get the classic cars (3) valued, I can perhaps use that as leverage to get the buyout number lowered. Plus I have a card in my hand that I can possibly use if I absolutely have to.
Must get to a lawyer immediately to figure out where Im at in all this.
Thank you I hope your stuff gets better...
And the boats. That's a soft
And the boats. That's a soft spot for him.
Consider doing whatever you have to in order to get the best law
Consider doing whatever you have to do in order to get the best lawyer, not just one you can afford. If you have to borrow money from a friend or relative, do it. This divorce is going to get dirty and you need a shark in your corner. I know you tend to want to research everything before you act, but in this case, get a lawyer first and start following their direction. ESMOD also gave great advice as to practical things you can do now.
I'm concerned about your safety, so please do not engage with him anymore than is necessary. Put together a "go bag" and keep it in your car in case you have to leave quickly. Be careful who you talk to, make sure you only talk to your friends and not any mutual friends.
Having gone through a divorce
and division of assets with a guy who thought he had outfoxed me, my experience was that any work that is done on a house prior to separation doesn't get him anything. It happened during the marriage and therefore any increased value is still a joint asset. He's really not as smart as he thinks he is. And if you separate before the assets are divided you would have the right to refuse any improvements he wants to make. He really doesn't have the upper hand here.