I'm going to be a new SM and Wow I have trouble now and see much trouble with the SD in the future unless changes are made?
First I want to say that I am so glad to have stumbles across this website. This is all new to me and I do need advice. I've been with my Fiance for a year now and he has a 17 year old daughter that lives with him, which lives with us now. Us being Myself of course, lol and I have a 23 year old son working his way through college, he is a very respectful, caring considerate young man. I also have a 20 year old son still finding himself has ADHD disrespects me now and again but would never and has never disrespected my Fiance'. I also have an 8 year old daughter, good girl, respectful, caring and has a few 8 year old moments of course. My children love him and would never disrespect my fiance and offer him help whenever he they see him doing something. My childen do their chores etc.
Well we've been living together for 6 months now with all children and we're planning to be married in February of 09. My children took to my Fiance right away and love him. My SD ever since moved in was keeping herself in her room would never come out and be social. We've been walking around here on egg shells not to say anthing to upset her, bending over backwards to make her feel comfortable, inviting her to outtings which were all denied by her. We found out the main reason we think for hanging in the room was she was gay and didn't want to come out for fear of father feelings, we think. I've helped my SD and Fiance to be able to talk about it. He is not abusive in any way and never would be, he just could not accept it. She can talk to me about that and has said I'm the only one she's been able to talk to about it, meaning an adult as she feels no way to talk to her BM or BD about that subject. My children are open minded and feel to each there own as well.
Well months has gone by and she's almost 18. I said to my Fiance' we all have our chores around her and she's leaving messes and never cleans up after herself, maybe another way to feel as part of our family and get her to come out is to give her, her own set of chores to do, reasonable I might add, not to much, 15 minutes once a week. She ignored him and didn't do them for two months, he didn't enforce it until I asked her to do them one weekend and she just ignored me on purpose and went to her room. Then he also figured her getting a job would be good to get her out and away from a bad gf she had that was abusive to her. He told her and it took her two months to get one as she didn't want to get a job. She gets on average 5 hours a week at her job, so he told her if she's going to want a car she needs to get more hours to pay for the car and insurance, etc. Two months later still waiting for her to get more hours or another job. It's getting much worse. She has had a cell phone for the past 2+ years even after failing 10th and 11th grade she finsihed 11th grade with a .067 grade average and he's never taken her phone away. Only once after she didn't get a job after two months of him asking her too. She is finally doing chores, very shitty i might add and not on the weekend when she's told. Still leaves mess's. SD also leaves for 4 days over the weekend says she going to her BM's and BD says call me and keep me updated as to where your going, not one call, oh excuse me only if she needs money or something is wrong with cell phone. SD has never said Thank you for anything to her BD or myself for anything. SD has never done anything that she has been asked to do, when she's been asked to do it. She's also kept putting up a picture of BM and BD together in each other's arms from b4 when they were married after he's told her to take it down out of respect. I asked my Fiance' to name one thing SD has ever done that you have asked her to do and actually do it when you've asked her to do it? He couldn't list one thing. No Thank You's etc. Well as soon as she got this car she was on her father's case to fix it right then and there to drop everything and fix it. I said to him wait a minute. a girl that doesn't call you when she's gone for days, lies, disrespect's you and me, failed the past two years of school, doesn't do her chores, etc. and your going to fix this car for her, instead of having her prove good grades, and respect. He said yes your right I will make her wait at least a week, wow? Well the very next day we all had a talk as she came into the room asking to have the car fixed right now and had her BM on the phone to harrass my Fiance into getting it fixed for her, which he gives in to hix EX as well. He's only once told his ex NO and that's bcuz she kept calling him asking him to do things for her fix things, run errands and instead of telling her no he would made excuses, which is also a slap in my face, their divorced, I had finally had enough and said I'm not marrying you and your ex. Anyway sorry venting here as well, while Fiance is on the phone with BM I asked SD, if she could list one thing she's done for her father that he's asked her to do? She said I got a job, I said 2 moths after he asked you and that's only cuz he took your phone away. I said you don't do anything your father asks you and you want him to jump whenver you ask, and I mean he does and he jumps fast. NOt only does he jump but he treats her like she does no wrong and asks her if she's okay and if she needs anything can I get you something to eat can I make it for you. After she's treated her dad, me and everyone in house this way, and done what she's done, I should say hasn't done. Well in that conversation which i also mentioned that she hadn't done her housework again after her father told her better be done on the weekend and this was Tuesday already she said no I had better more important things to do and if you can't understand that, then that's your problem. I asked her about the pic she keeps putting up and asked her if she wants them to get back together and after saying some other disrespectful things left in middle of converstaion. My Fiance knows all this and had that car fixed that day. That evening I said so you fixed the car for her, he said yes, I said so much for teaching her respect, he said well you've got to talk to her a certain, meaning eggshells and be careful what you say and how you say it. In other words kiss her ass. I can't take it anymore. I asked him did she say Thank You, he said no. Today after school, he asked how the car was running and all she said was when are you going to fix the other thing. I asked him if she even said Thank You yet.
He said no, but i know she appreciates it, he's always making excuses for her and apoligizing for her to me, instead of making her. I'm done, I went off on him. He said you've been mad ever since my 20 year old disrespected me, I did not sit back and take it, I told him if he was going to disrept me he can move out. Immediately my Fiance went out and talked to him about disrespecting me, but I cant tell his daughter not to disrespect him or me??????? Wow. He said your son disrects you and I said have my children ever disrespected you, he said no. I said I would never allow that. Instead of you having her apoligize to me, your telling me I should kiss her ass and walk on egg shells basically. I can't deal with it, we had our first real fight. He's already apoligized, but he doesn't do what we talk about and agree upon. He told me his ex said he never treated her first two girls the same as his daughter either. Anyway, I love him with all my heart, he is the one for me and I know cuz we are one with everything else in regards to life except this. He is a wonderful man, treats me great, very nice to my children. But you can see he will never tell his daughter NO, never and no matter what she does and how she treats him and me and everyone, she's a queen and can do no wrong, he makes excuses for her constantly. I don't think I'll be able to deal with walking on egg shells until she moves on with life as also she's gay and is going to have a harder life and failing in school. My stomach has been in knots for days, on and off for weeks, and I haven't been able to sleep for days.
Sorry so long, but I wanted to explain everything to a T. that I'm going through, Any advice please, I appreciate it.
- Tired of Eggshells's blog
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I am sorry
you are going thru this.
I will be direct in my advice. Please, don't take it wrong, I am going to tell you what I would tell my daughter (if she asked).
MOve out. You are not married to him. Wait til she is out of his house to get together. You don't have to live together to love each other. This might be the thing that makes your fiance do something about her! If you stay, he keeps both of you & he has no reason to do anything about her because he has his cake & Edith too!
pick up my favorite book
Since you used the term "Eggshells" I am going to suggest "Stop Walking on Eggshells" Which is about living with someone with Borderline Personality Disorder. I am not saying that your SD has that of course, but I found the book to be helpful with dealing with unstable people no matter what ails them. And your SD is suffering from something.
Your FH should try to get her into a psychologist soon, before she turns 18 and he can't get her to go anymore.
And I agree with the above posts. I would tell him she needs to move out at 18 or you will.
This isn't a good environment for your own kids, and your FH needs to understand that and step up to doing something about it.
"Om Tare Tutare Ture Mama Ayurpunye Jnana Putin Kuru Svaha"
~Sita Tara Mantra
my thoughts
"He is a wonderful man, treats me great, very nice to my children."
I'm not trying to pick apart what you're saying, but he's NOT treating you great by allowing this to go on. Allowing you to be disrespected in your home. And he's NOT being nice to your children if this double standard exists.
I see a big red flag with your husband's problems with her being gay. I think this is probably a HUGE contributing factor in her hostility and noncompliance. She's going through a LOT in exploring her sexuality, and is going to have a hell of a lot of resentment to lash out with as a result of his rejection. I'm not saying he has to embrace it, but he must love and support her. It almost sounds like through his behavior he's trying to bribe into not being gay. If she's feeling alienated and rejected, she's going to take him for a ride every chance she gets, and spit in his face for his efforts. And living under the same roof with the other children and you is only going to breed resentment for her special treatment.
This is an issue between the two of them, and until it's resolved, I don't see it getting better. I don't know if this is at the heart of the problem or not, but I do think it's a big contributing factor. I'm not saying it's right, but basically by not accepting her coming out, he's not respecting her. it's awfully hard not to respect someone and demand their respect. She's not 10, she's 17, and about to be on her own, she needs to hear that she's able to make these decisions herself.
I feel bad for SD in this situation, I remember being young, and making choices my parents did not approve of and accept, and you know my reaction? HOW DARE YOU dictate to me how to live my life? It's my life, not yours, and I'll make my own choices! And whatever it was, I was bound and determined to do it MORE as a result of being disrepected.
On a deeper level, it hurt b/c their rejection told me I was not competent and able to make my own choices in life, which is exactly the encouragement I needed at that time. I don't know if that helps at all, but if you look at her behavior through that lens, it may make a little more sense. It saddens me to read her problems with school, and an abusive relationship, and alienation from her family, and a clinging to holding on to her once happy parents, at least, in her mind. She sounds very very unhappy, and with some of these choices, she will be paying for them for a long time.
I think ultimately, it's out of your hands and until she and your H reconcile in some way, I think you need to consider the rest of your family first, because that IS something you can influence.
If having her move out is the best option, please continue to be
"the only one she's been able to talk to about it, meaning an adult as she feels no way to talk to her BM or BD about that subject. My children are open minded and feel to each there own as well."
If she has hope of coming around, it will be through acceptance and love, even if it's sometimes VERY hard to give in the face of anger and rejection, just remember she may very well be lashing out at the whole picture, and her frustration with it, not specifically you.
I agree with Northern....
I think she is seeing her life as being out of control (with her sexuality) so she tries to control the one thing she can. DH needs to support his daughter, no matter what. Support her, NOT cater to her, there is a difference. Maybe he is mourning the loss of a daughter in the traditional sense? I am sure she is confused and is acting out b/c of it. They need to go to counseling before it's to late. Just b/c she turns 18, don't think it will suddenly stop. It doesnt.
Oh, by the way, WELCOME! Hugs to you....
Tired of eggshells/Different view
Hi there! I have a bit of a different opinion about how to handle this situation. I had some of the same issues with my DH and SD12, no discipline, always defending, nothing ever her fault...I could go on and on. We fought, I bitched, he moaned, she whined and I tried everything I could think of to change him. Well nothing worked. I guess because men do not want women to try to change them.
I finally resigned myself to the fact that this man, no matter what I think of his parenting skills is the man that I love. I fell in love with THIS MAN, not the man I want him to change into. The anger and resentment I built up towards my DH around this was tearing our marriage apart and I had enough. I sat him down one afternoon and told him how sorry I was, it is not my job to be his mother, to tell him what to do I am his wife and I want to love and support him. I was a single mother for 10 years and made my own mistakes with my children and he will have to make his. What he does or does not do with SD is his choice, she is his child and I have no responsibility for her whatsoever (my choice). Now, that being said I do have my line in the sand and who ever crosses it will deal with me directly.
I will be respected in my own home, my belongings will be respected and my home will be respected by any and all who enter. You command your respect from your SD as you have your children and let your DH pull his own little red waggon. I have noticed that the less I push DH the less he pulls in the other direction and our relationship has improved. I still don't understand why he does things the way he does them but I no longer am attached to the outcome. This is not my child and whatever she turns out to be as an adult is on my DH, not me.
I hope I didn't step on any toes, this is just the way I have found to keep my marriage together and myself partially sane. Good luck to you hon. It's not easy any way you look at it.
~Evil
If you want children to keep their feet on the ground, put some responsibility on their shoulders. ~Abigail Van Buren
Evilsm, do you have any
Evilsm, do you have any other children with DH? I'm just curious because my DH and I are having this exact problem right now in regards to SD13(no discipline, always defending, nothing her fault, etc.). In fact we're headed to our 2nd round of marriage counseling tonight because of it. What you did sounds like a great solution. I just don't know if it would work for me because we have a 3 year old and I don't want her to grow up like her sister (with the disrespect, feeling that the world "owes" her, etc.). Like you said...not my child so however she turns out as an adult is on DH, not me. But I can't have my daughter suffer for it. I just keep telling myself there's got to be a better way. I'm praying that our psychologist somehow opens DH's eyes to what he is doing.
Hi fedup
No, DH and I do not have any children together but I have two teens that live with us. My kids see the difference in how they were raised and how SD is allowed to behave and have ask me about it. I just tell them that I raised them to be adults and to take care of themselves and I will allow DH to raise SD how he wants. She and he will have to deal with the outcome.
We have SD full time right now and if I had not changed my direction I don't think we would still be together. In your situation I would say, raise your child the way you see fit and let the chips fall where they may. You will be the influence that your child needs and you can teach her to be responsible and respectful. Also you must stand your groud with SD and not allow her to be disrespectful to you or your home.
I saw changes in my DH after a few weeks, he has had to step up to the plate and consider his actions beyond the moment. Me backing off and supporting him gave him confidence to do better, at least I think so today.
Supporting him means that I love him and allow him to make his own decisions about SD but he also understands that he can't have it both ways. I won't be involved if I am not allowed to participate so he picks when he wants my help and when he doesn't. Does that make sense?
Anyway good luck to you, I hope things get better. PM me anytime.
~Evil
If you want children to keep their feet on the ground, put some responsibility on their shoulders. ~Abigail Van Buren
Another fight about to happen,
Thank You For listening and letting me vent. And everyone Thank You I am reading all suggestions and trying to decide. We had a doozie of a fight that night and things were supposed change, he said he'd talk to her and have her apologize or she could move to her mothers. Well his talk to her, he explained it to me as he told her, "SM is upset because you do not say Thank You". I was floored, lol. I said that's what you got out of our arguement, why do you sugarcoat everything. Are you kidding me, lol. Well found out why the BM wanted her to have car so badly, she got herself a DUI which I knew was going to happen and is now having SD chaufeur her around. SD is sick with fever etc and BM still has her chauffeuring her to her DUI classes and to the bar on the weekends. I told my Fiance you've got to put an end to this, this is her last year of HS and if she's even got a remotely small chance of passing and graduating she cannot be running her mother around. He said nope not up to me to stop it. He said if he tells her she can't chaufeur her around or actually stands up to the ex he'll be in the dog house with the daughter and he doesn't want that. He says he's worried she'll move over there. He went in her room to ask her why she's got to pick her mother up at 2:a.m. and told her no and not running her around during the week either because school is more important and SD starting yelling at him and raising her voice big time. End result, he came in to tell me that I need to talk to her about the life and nothing else, as she's too fragile right now. So once again, never had the talk with her we agreed on that she would follow rules and no disrespect, nI never got an appology, and she's running all over for her drunk mother now. Wow, the writing is write, lol, in front of me, things will not change. Not only is he fooled by his daughter but he will not stand up to the BM and set her straight for the sake of his daughter either. What a slap in the face, he yelled and raised his voice to me for the first time in that arguement over this last week and he won't even set his ex straight. HMMMMMMMMMMM Am I just fooling myself? I feel badly as well complaining as I've read a lot of other posts and wow some of those SD's are much, worse. I feel so bad for all the SM's going through this. I've still got a choice. However, my Fiance is the only father figure she's ever had, this will tear her up, if we split up over this. I'll most likely give up after this, if it ends. Thank You all of u
Accepting
I will disagree here on another point. DH should not be forced to accept SD's life path. If it is her life, she will need to stand up for herself and recognize that not everyone will support it. But it is his choice and right to not accept it.
We have a similar situation where SD wants to date gangbanger, thug types and wants us to 'just accept her as she is', that is, taking the path of least resistance by not standing up to these guys, and saying No I don't want to date you, which I suspect she is embarrassed to do. I think her path is a dead end road and will not support it in any way. I don't agree that the parent has to accept anything, if the child continues she needs to recognize that maybe it will be without the parent's support.
When I was young I was a little partyer and thought that was my right, along with the bad decisions you make in those circumstances. But parental disapproval can be a powerful force. I thank God now my parents did not support me in it and upheld their values and it did help me not go too far away, if I wanted them in my life.
I have sympathy for her homosexuality and this is not intended in judgement against that. It will be a struggle for your SD to figure out how to handle this but it will continue to be a struggle I think. She will still need to hold a job and support herself, and needs school for that. She will still have her mom trying to use her for rides, etc. She has enough issues but that is life. It is tough but our job is to prepare the kids for real life, and in real life people disagree.
Tired, I think it is up to you whether you stay in the house or go forward in your engagement. If you stay, I think you should take control of the situation if DH won't and on SD to hold up her end of the agreement. If DH won't support you in doing this, I would look at him clearly in light of this and proceed accordingly.
"A lie told often enough becomes the truth." - Vladimir Lenin
Good News and Bad News
Thank You For Everyone for listening and letting me vent. Thank you for all of your advice and words of wisdom.
Good News is after my Fiance said to me well I don't think we need to talk to SD as I've already talked to her, he could tell I was very, very upset, but getting tired of beating an old horse. Anyway, he popped up and said well SD is here, should we talk to her out of the blue. So on Sunday, we had a very long conversation, sometimes heated, however everything was explained and spelled out, the house rules, respect, not to raise her voice and talk to her Dad like shit and expect him to jump when she snaps her fingers anymore, chores which everyone in household has chores once a week dish's and a room of vacuuming and dusting, not bad. She sat there through the entire conversation, being childish of course at times and crying. However we reasured her, that we love her and want her to stay and be happy that's why were having this conversation, as life is a two way street. You've got to give to recieve, and if you don't comply and be decent you'll loose, freedom, cell phone and car. Well that day earlier she did her chores, very shitty, half assed, BF told her to put dish's away correctly and I told her she did not dust certain coffee tables or vacuum entire Living room and to do it correctly. She didn't do it that day, however did it the next correctly, wow that's a first, Whaaaa whooooo. She left the other day and BF wasn't home and she actually told me where she was going, she was actually smiling and laughing too. So far looks like talk may have helped as BF backed me up on everything talked about. Time will tell. Oh yes and BF actually called BM not in my presence of course to tell her, SD will not be picking her up from bars in the middle of the night and what her curfew is during the week, but then went on to say schedule apt. that you need for your DUI around her schedule and curfew or take a taxi.
BAD News is now ex is calling SD up and asking her to get out of school early to drive her around. SD actually called BF to say no I'm not leaving at 12:00. BF told SD maybe you could leave at 1:00 but not 12:00, so once again, instead of putting his foot down to end this once and for all, he bagains. SD said that's what I told her. I think since she cannot tell her mother no, the SD calling and telling BF about this was a way of asking him to interfere and to tell her no this isn't happening, since SD can't do it. What do you think? Please any advice I'm grateful for with dealing with BM's that are selfish and don't care, she got a DUI and the SD's first week of school was sick with fever etc and BM had her running her around all week and picking her up at a bar at 2:00 a.m. and BF let her. I'm upset that BF will not raise his voice and totally put his foot down with using, selfish BM, why not this is his daughter. I bet if her mug shot and explanation of what she's doing on You Tube might embarrass her into stopping using her daughter. I would never do such a thing, it's just a thought that made me laugh, however anybody have any tips?
interfere
If she is looking for a parent to interfere and give her an excuse of why she can't do it then you can volunteer. Tell her to use you as an excuse and tell her mom that you said no.
I wish I could
I wish I could talk to her about her mother. I cannot yet mention her mother's name without her crying about her mother. One of the things she was doing was putting up pictures in her room of her BM an BF from a long time ago with their arms around each other. SF put an end to that telling her it was disrespectful to me and their never getting back together and that she can have pic's up of them seperately no problem but not together. I know the BM lies alot and has always wanted everyone to do everything for her, up til a month ago she was still calling my Fiance to run errands for her and fix things for her and do this and do that. I told him this is rediculous I'm not marrying you and your EX, you need to put an end to this. So he said he did and she has since quit calling after being astounded that he told her so, she said to him " we were together 18 years and you can't do things for me". In the discussion the other day, when BF mentioned the BM, she starts crying, so I just can't right now, I want to and I tell the BF how wrong this is of BM to do these things and you need to put your foot down. His reply is we have to stay out of it, and she'll find out on her own. He's her father he has every right to look out for her best interest. I don't know if it's cuz he's affraid to talk to BM. He has a hard time telling BM and SD "NO" for anything. He'd make excuses when the EX would call and ask him to do things instead of saying no.