OT - DD's daycare UPDATE
Follow-up to this blog entry: https://www.steptalk.org/node/236714
The end result of this brouhaha was that DH and I agreed that DH will take over communicating with the daycare. He takes very little to heart and is a native Dutch speaker so will not have my doubts about the communication. Saves me getting upset and stressed out, so good choice!
Bottom line, pickup for DD at daycare is 1pm. I try to arrive between 12.45 and 12.59, since I pay for care until 1pm. I do the exchange, then get DD to go pee, get her boots/coat on, and off we go. It can take 10-20 minutes. I am clearly taking care of her, and the toilet and her boots are in the main classroom where the other children who no longer nap are playing, usually 2-4 children.
I was 5 minutes late last Wednesday, and the daycare leader reminded me that I must be on time. (Side note: in NL, people talk about the time down to the minute, and people are very worried about being late for something. If you were to ask someone for the time, they would respond, "It's 9.17." And if you ask for directions often people will say, "I can't help you, that would make me late.") When I checked my emails that evening there was one from the director saying that she's noticed I've been taking a really long time to pick up DD lately and this is a problem for other clients and the staff and that specifically that day she noticed I didn't leave the building until 1.25.
This was last Wednesday. Thursday morning we sent an email advising them that future written communication would be via him (for newsletters, bills, etc etc). I had sent a request Wednesday night asking for the director to clarify expectations about pick-up times - I understood I needed to be there before 1pm, but I asked if the expectation is that DD and I have to leave the building by 1pm. In the email we sent Thursday morning we said to please contact DH with this information.
Thursday the director sent DH an email saying she didn't mean to cause frustration and the best solution is for us all to have a meeting. She did NOT tell us what the expectations are for pickups.
Thursday DH emailed back to say he didn't think a meeting was necessary, we just want to know what specifically is expected from us for pick up.
Friday she emailed DH and said, "No, no, I'd really like for us to sit down and talk about this. When are you free?" Again, did not tell us what she expects for pickup.
Monday DH emailed and said, "Well, I can meet in May when I've got some vacation time."
So far, no response.
Do you think, if you worked really hard, you could make a bigger mountain out of this molehill?
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Comments
OMG! Who pushes meetings!
OMG! Who pushes meetings! I'm always trying to weasel OUT of them when people say "Can we meet?" Yuck.
ETA to my OP: Today I picked
ETA to my OP: Today I picked her up at 12.45, I was actually there about 12.40 but I waited 5 minutes because I didn't want it to seem that I was scurrying around trying to read the director's mind but OTOH I needed to catch a particular train and my knees were killing me so I wanted to give myself plenty of time to cycle to the station. It was so much stress... for NOTHING. Ugh!
Oh, Netherlands ABC is
Oh, Netherlands ABC is different (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao). Well, the legalities have changed now, Bonaire chose to become a county instead of a country and Sint-Maarten became a country itself within the Kingdom of the Netherlands. But the Caribbean is the Caribbean...
Well...here's a great video
Well...here's a great video that explains it all. (Inasmuch as it can be explained, lol!)
https://youtu.be/eE_IUPInEuc
Wow…why can’t they just give
Wow…why can’t they just give you a time? If I was DH I would try to accommodate and have a meeting. I feel like there is more going on than just you being late one day.
Maybe they just want you to hurry when you pick up the little one…? Not sure how it works over there but here, when my kids were in daycare, I would park, go inside, get on shoes and let them go potty if they had to and then we left. Longest I was in there was maybe 5 minutes. At the longest. It does seem like an extremely long time (10-20 minutes) to just pick up your child.
I also think the language barrier has something to do with them being weird about all of this. That is why I suggest DH meet with them face to face.
Maybe it is a really long
Maybe it is a really long time. I don't know, there only other parent that picks up at 1 is picking up a baby.
I am struggling a bit with DD getting distracted, not staying on task, etc at the moment. I mean, I show up, I greet her, hear about her morning from the leader, and tell her to put her shoes on... but I have to herd her out the door, she doesn't just go when I start to leave myself. She wants to stay and play. And then the same thing going to the toilet, putting her coat on, etc. Even when no other children (or adults) are there. It happens whenever she's instructed to do something, at home as well. It's something I'm working on separately, not something I realized was (possibly) an issue in this situation.
But the thing is, I could see if the building was closing that it's a problem for others and I would have handled it much differently already. Since I thought that she was in my care, and still needed to get ready to leave... I took care of it how I saw fit. Since no one was around except sometimes those 2-4 children and the leader (other times all the kids are in one group with the babies, so all the leaders and all the kids are together in a different room from DD's normal room), I just had no idea it could be an issue.
I'm there 3x week, none of the staff has ever said anything along the lines of anything else going on. Nor that me taking 10-20 minutes is an issue. In fact, sometimes they come out of their rooms to the main hallway where I'm reminding DD to put her coat on and they start chatting to her/me, so I felt welcome actually.
I have been there for other reasons - they have a hairdresser that cuts the kids' hair on a day DD doesn't go to daycare so I bring her in specially - I checked before doing that and they said, "Of course, what a good idea, it'll be great to see you guys!" Whenever I've had the half-yearly meetings about DD's development, they've instructed me to bring DD and she can play while I meet with the leaders/developmental support person. They've told me that if I ever want to talk about anything related to parenting or DD's development, I can just ask to come in and they will make a time to meet and to bring DD so she can play while we talk. I mean, they're really professional and great there except for this director.
If it weren't for having handed this over to DH, I'd go to one of the staff to ask what the expectations are. But now I have to respect the boundary I asked DH to put in place.
And tbh, I'm fluent in Dutch. I'm insecure about it, and I miss things when people talk very quickly or very casually, but I can read my mortgage papers and I can get my groceries and conduct friendships etc in Dutch. When people don't understand me or get frustrated that I didn't understand them, there's an element of wilfulness there.
I'm going to guess that it's
I'm going to guess that it's you being there for so long that is the problem. Daycares, schools etc. are generally very safety oriented for the sake of EVERYONE's kids. So if I were to sign in to BS7 school to pick him up, I'm pretty certain they would be perturbed if I didn't sign out with him until 25 minutes later, and was doing this consistently. And not because they are closing, and not because they are being nit picky, but because there are other students there. you have not been fingerprinted, you have not had a background check so you being there beyond a simple put shoes and coat on and leave is a safety issue.
No offense to YOU at all... I'm guessing they would have issue with ANYONE doing this.
I'm really open to whatever
I'm really open to whatever the problem MIGHT be, because I have no idea. You might be right on. But... maybe not. I mean, all the children there are aged 3 and under, none of them are supposed to be unsupervised so I shouldn't be able to pose a risk.
But yes, it sounds like the 10-20 minutes I've been approaching as normal is longer than what other people are able to do with their children. Although, one time DD stayed an entire day, and another parent who was there before me was still busy with her daughter when I left with DD. So I really don't know.
I do expect DD to put her shoes and coat on herself and use the toilet/wash hands herself as well. DH tends to want things done quickly so he'll just do it for her. But she's fully capable... and she's short, it's hard on my body to bend or kneel! This is kind of a crystallization of the challenge I'm facing right now with her - I'm feeling like it's nag-nag-nag, do it for her myself, or get unpleasant. None appeal as a way of life with my kid.
I am a SAHM, but I sometimes
I am a SAHM, but I sometimes do other things besides be DD's mom. Daycare is great as she hears Dutch those two half-days, whereas at home we speak mostly French or English. We also think having her around other children is important as she's an only child. I've got chronic health issues so the extra sleep, or if my energy is good, the extra time, helps a lot. Better than putting her in front of the TV anyway! Plus they offer a lot of learning opportunities that I don't offer. I don't sing with DD, for example. I guess I don't really expect myself to be the only person to meet all of her needs all the time, certainly not when the opportunity cost is meeting my own needs.
You might be right about hoofing it out the door as a solution. I just hate the manipulation inherent in guessing games. How did it get to be my job to be constantly on alert for the possible displeasure of a another so that I can quickly self-analyze what responsibility I can take for that person's emotional temperature?
I'm thinking there is
I'm thinking there is something else that is the underlying issue and they would rather try to work it out face to face since there is a communication issue.
I don't have any kiddos but I think if the place that kept my kid asked to meet with me I would make the time, sooner than later.
I'm meeting with another
I'm meeting with another staff member next week. But I'm not interested in meeting with the director because 1. she's DH's problem now and 2. see above comment for how unbalanced I feel and 3. WHY???? I don't even go into the different rooms in my house unless I have a reason!
I agree with the above, it
I agree with the above, it seems like there possibly is something else that the director wants to address in person.
I would guess that maybe the director sensed your frustration and upset from her previous email. Maybe she realized that her email communication does not come across very friendly and doesn't want to make the situation worse by sending another email. Perhaps she's just hoping to be able to communicate in a person so that she doesn't come across in a negative way.
For me at work, there are a few people I've come to learn I can't communicate efficiently with through emails. I don't really understand it, but we can't seem to understand each other's points over email. For these people I either call, or will go and find them in the building to have an in person talk with so it's not an issue.
You may be right that there
You may be right that there is something else the director wants to address. But that possibility leaves me a bit flummoxed.
The director didn't have to sense my frustration, I told her I was frustrated by her email. She doesn't have to risk making things worse with me because she can now communicate with DH. An option might be to arrange a time to call DH though, if she really wants to 'talk.'
Part of it is this: the director could have spoken to me last week Wednesday when I was leaving 'too late' because I walked right by her. I know she was there, because in her email she wrote down the time that I left and said it was 'too late.' So now that's she's made a big deal about putting it in writing, I want confirmation of what the expectations are in writing.
And really, it's not even having it in writing, it's more... she had the option to approach me. She could have approached me in the moment, or at the next time DD was scheduled to be there, which was the next morning. She could have emailed me and asked if I could stop in to see her. There were a lot of options and she chose one that I found extremely unpleasant.
And it was so unpleasant for me, I know it wasn't a reasonable response to the situation. Which is why I asked DH to take over. I've never done that before, but this time I thought, hey, he can really help me here, and it's such a simple thing and will be such a relief for me... great!
But it's still.dragging.on. That's what has me frustrated. But it's DH's problem now. I will suggest a phone call to him though.
Maybe the director was too
Maybe the director was too busy to talk with you herself when she saw you; you don't know her schedule. Maybe the situation wasn't brought to her attention by an associate until after you were gone? And if you need confirmation of pick up and drop off times in writing perhaps you should have gotten that before you started leaving your kid there. Just throwing it out there.
I've deleted most of your
I've deleted most of your comments because it seems you are trying to cause dissent and I'm not interested in arguing just for the he!! of it. Perhaps you are correct that talking to me in that moment didn't work for the director. The email was sent 10 minutes after she said I left, so presumably she spent at least some of those 10 minutes composing it, which tends to support the idea that she was available - just not to talk to me.
Perhaps in those 10 minutes the associate who had told me when I arrived that I was late came over to the director and complained, somehow failing to mention that she had just told me I had been late. Or perhaps the associate who I helped clean up a spill on the floor just as we were leaving complained about my nasty habit of staying around to pitch in like a decent human being.
Perhaps the director was struck by a b!tch ray from Mars and that's what made her do it.
We could speculate for a long time and you know what? We would still not have gained any knowledge.
The drop-off time is between 7.30am and 9am. The pick-up time is 1pm. I pick DD up by 1, except last Wednesday when I was late. Is the problem now clear?
Where's a fork? I need to stab myself in the eye.
She may be trying to mend
She may be trying to mend some fences here. I'm going to assume her intention wasn't to upset you, and when she realized her email did, she may be trying to repair the relationship there. I can understand your simple request for what the pickup time guidelines are and what's expected of you, but her simply stating that won't make any of the awkwardness of you two seeing each other go away. She may be hoping that an in person meeting will help with that.
It's quite a possibility that she noticed last week Wednesday that you were leaving quite late, but didn't say anything because she thought it was just a one off/ fluke. Maybe after you left a teacher(s) mentioned it to her, or she asked teacher(s) if it was a regular occurrence. She may have not wanted to say anything to you before she confirmed it was an ongoing thing that she felt needed to be addressed.
I can tell you're frustrated and upset by this whole situation. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, even after they've screwed me over, so it's up to you how you handle this. If I were you, I'd try to give her the opportunity (that she seems to be asking for) to make amends for upsetting you.
That's a possibility I hadn't
That's a possibility I hadn't considered. Interesting.
How frustrating and
How frustrating and inefficient. I would ask DH to email her again stating that he would have to take a day off for a meeting and that the situation can be easily resolved by a clear answer to this question.
It is very hard dealing with
It is very hard dealing with natives in another country. I should know. I am not from America even though I come from an English speaking country Americans can come across as extremely rude and it instantly makes you defensive.
As for quirks... my BFF has lived in Italy for about 25 yrs. She is now a citizen so she can get a cheaper mortgage rate. Imagine that, a higher mortgage rate because you are not a citizen. And she told me if you ask at an Information booth at the train stn .. Excuse me but is there a train from Rome to Verona at around 8pm? ...No... So when is the next train after 8pm from Rome to Verona? ...8:05pm... When is the next one after that?... Where? ... from Rome to Verona. What is the next train after 8:05pm?... 8:46pm. Now we would see this as obstructive and rude. In Italy this is normal. You asked about 8pm and no train runs from Rome to Verona at 8pm. End of question.
Ugh. There is a LOT of racism
Ugh. There is a LOT of racism in Europe. I'm originally from Canada, and sure, racism is alive and well there too, but it's seems much more accepted over here.
I have a friend, also Canadian, who lives in Berlin now. She's half-Ukranian and half-Italian, so a bit shorter and a bit darker than a typical German. She has had so many issues, from being ignored when she's stood in a line for help at the train station, the staff member just walked away when it was her turn. Once she was shoved by a taxi-driver as when he drove up at a stoplight - practically on top of her on her bicycle - she fell towards the hood of his car and a bit on top of it, so he jumped out of his car to push her off his taxi. Really.
I try really hard to remember there is no them, there is only us... but sometimes I feel like a spectator at some bizarre avant-garde music festival where everyone else seems to be grooving to the beat: https://youtu.be/MaG_bwnMsjM
MOE - I did not read all the
MOE - I did not read all the comments but I think you are seeing this wrong....
The director send a normal standard email (stupid in my view yes) When you started asking questions, this woman probably remembered you are not native and struggles with the language, I think she simply wants to have a meeting to clear the air... not to scold or anything, she might be one of those people who can better say something face to face then writing it out.....
It seems to me that she feels a bit embarrassed about the email, and not remembering that you are not Dutch..
I get this feeling that one of the teachers might have filed a complaint, find out who's that bitch and take your anger out on her, dang 1 minute is not the end of the world.
I was surprised by some
I was surprised by some comments, the more aggressively-worded since deleted. But it's morning for me now so I've had a chance to sleep on it.
The issue for me is that she's been going to daycare two half-days per week for 1.5 years. We pay for care until 1pm, so I show up just before 1pm. It's always taken me 10-20 minutes to get out the door. No one has ever mentioned this is a problem before. The clarification I want is what time I am expected to have left with DD. Then we can figure out how to meet that expectation.
I can see that many people thought I was asking for speculation about what the director may have been thinking, or what a staff menber may have said to the director, or whether DH and I have chosen the most ideal way to handle this situation. That was not the case so my apologies for the confusion.
Obviously, I'm the type to provide too much detail and too many tangential issues. Especially if I'm upset. Fortunately, my partner doesn't have this problem. Since he's equally DD's parent, my equity partner in life, and loves to help me because he loves me, we decided that he would handle getting this clarification. Imagine how convoluted me talking to this lady would get!
Interesting that several people commented that I am a coward for allowing my partner to help me with something. Also interesting that for me, this is the first time I have asked him to help me with something. He wants to help me, tells me he likes to support me, so I'm going to stick with asking for help is ok. Or at least try to, it's not my strong point! After a decade of marriage though, the least I can do is try.
Thanks to everyone who tried to help, even those whose comments had to be deleted.
seriously why shouldn't DH
:jawdrop: :jawdrop: seriously why shouldn't DH help.... Munschkin is his daughter as well and there's the language barrier...... urg..... it's not like DH is the SF.....
I also help SO with school stuff simply because he gets over frustrated and looses his temper, thus he will ask me to deal with it and I do, Aergia is not even mine lol..... but if she causes trouble or has trouble with a teacher, the school account or what ever... I do not mind stepping in.... SO can't work with people, he's a bush person... he can't even master English properly lol.... poor Dutch boy
Thus MOE... do not stress about what internet people say.... do what's right for you and Munschkin.... I can teach you some dutch but be warned never use it over there lol...
Acra, ik zou echt bang zijn
Acra, ik zou echt bang zijn voor wat je aan Munschkin wil gaan leren... Maaaaaaar jij spreekt geen Nederlands, jij. Je spreekt Afrikaans en dat is andere koek. Zeker weten!
hahahaha ik sal Munschkin
hahahaha ik sal Munschkin mooi leer