OT - Coworker is Pissing Me Off
One of my coworkers was in the same role as me during training but out of training I took a role with higher responsibility and I think higher pay.
She admitted that she wished she would have elected to take this role as well.
Now that I'm am "above" her she is completely defiant.
she (I believe intentionally) refuses to respond to my private messages which are time sensitive.
Usually when I message her its because her current performance is dismal and to give her tips to help herself/keep the team metrics up. im not about to let her ego drag the entire team performance down.
I also have to message her to update her performance numbers. I have to have accurate numbers in management team meeting so we can be proactive in helping our teammates with low performance scores. She (again I believe) intentionally does not update her numbers on purpose to hide her lackluster performance.
Today I messaged her to let her know that our workforce reported that she left work before her shift was over. I told her this plus I showed her on the schedule for another hour now instead of waiting to ask for clarification, this itchB up and left anyways and ignored my messages telling her she was not authorized to leave.
If I had the power to write her up for a disciplinary/corrective action I would. I feel like the only reason she is doing this is because she is resistant to be led by her "coworker" and she might be jealous that I took the initiative/ challenge she failed to take.
One day she said a customer was cursing her out (all I could think was thank goodness that consumer is doing what I would do if we didn't work together) and I had very little empathy or sympathy for her and it took everything I had to give concern.
I run a pretty tight ship (mixed with motivation, Inspiration, and support), I am proactive, and I encourage the team to be self sufficient when possible. Because of this I helped the team be in the top for the last 3 days straight.
She even won a prize for being one of the top team members one day. But her performance is inconsistent and when the Operations manager asked about her performance, said she was rude to people during training, had a bad attitude, and I defended her (which I didn't see these traits at the time).
Now because of her multiple instances of ignoring my important messages (waiting 30+ minutes to reply) I reported her to management.
Still burns me up she's acting like a defiant skid with a chip on her shoulder.
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Are you her direct supervisor
Are you her direct supervisor or manager.. is your role managerial? If so, why are you not able to write her up or discipline her? Or is your role more administratively senior.. reporting to management on performance etc? So, maybe she sees your attempts to coach her as micro managing and overstepping your role?
If you are her manager.. and in fact in a role intended to coach and improve her performance.. you probably need to stop messaging and have a real life meeting and conversation with her. You need to do it face to face.. or as close to that as possible(if you all work remotely).
Has your company given you any training on how to coach your subordinates? How to help them improve their performance.. and how to deal with touchy subjects like "attitude".. or ignoring communications? It might be good to take some kind of training like that if they offer it (if you have not already).. so you can get some idea of how to coach someone in a way that leaves them motivated to do better.. instead of just feeling "scolded".
If you aren't in a real management position over her.. just more in a senior role within the group..for performance reporting.. then perhaps you just need to let her lack of reporting or performance speak for itself. Instead of instant message.. send a reminder to your team a day or two before the metrics need to be uploaded.. (so no one feels targeted.. everyone gets the message). with the deadline.(which should be in advance of when YOU need to compile for management.. enough time to reasonably follow up for missing data). If the deadline comes and goes and she (or others) haven't updated it.. an individual email reminding them it needs to be done in the next "hour.. two hours"(whatever is reasonable).. and then if it is still not done? Your report to management is done.. without her data.. and you make a note of anyone who has missing data.. you have your two emails as support for your attempt to remind.. and to remind again.. so they can do with that what they may.
If you are in charge of time keeping.. report missing time to your management if necessary.
But.. back to the kind of meeting you need to have. First... you don't know.. maybe she is dealing with some issue that is causing her to have problems performing.. maybe an illness? Maybe a loved one who is ill? Maybe a relationship problem.. like steplife.. maybe a child problem..
You can tell her that you are talking to her because while she can be a great and productive employee, that recently, there have been some inconsistencies in her performance and you want to know how you might be able to help her get back on track more regularly. Remind her that your company offers.. employee resources if she is dealing with pressure from outside of work (if you do).. ask her if there is anything you can do to help her be more successful. Remind her of rules regarding submitting performance data and expectations of keeping certain hours as scheduled.. Thank her for being willing to work with you to improve this performance. Be sure to point out things she does WELL.. it should not be all about pointing out her flaws.. which is what she may think she is seeing now.
Agree with this. I supervise
Agree with this. I supervise AND manage people and it can be tricky. Your own training is essential.
I've also helped two of my employees realize the job wasn't for them and they would be smart to look elsewhere (before we decided it for them).
Keep a really good log of issues. Dates, times, summary of situations and what was said. Don't message privately unless it's on official record and you are the direct manager and it cannot wait for a regular meeting time.
Report performance to your manager as well. Especially if you can document that she is bringing team stats down and why.
The ironic thing is I could
The ironic thing is I could forsee that she was going to be a challenge after she said she wished she would have applied for this role AND I realized I'd have to help develop her performance
I was hoping my manager would deal with her but he's busy and due to tech issues I get her by default
Shes acting a bit better today
And I'm going to do what I need on my end to be a more effective leader.
I would be crystal clear with
I would be crystal clear with your manager about what they believe your role to be here. They may be busy.. but if your role was not intended to.. nor has any supervisory authority to coach and write up your coworkers.. you need to know.
The last thing you need to do is wade in and act as their manager.. when the company doesn't see that as your role.. you could end up the scape goat if things don't go well.
Especially since this IS a new role for you.. you should be working with your manager through performance coaching etc.. to get their feedback on how best to proceed. With the time issue.. are they paid hourly so just shorting themselves an hour of pay.. or are they salary.. so basically stealing time from the company if they leave early and don't use some sort of leave.
In these cases.. it's really important to understand your official role.. to understand your company policies and to know who your resources are to help you get employees on track or discipline them if that IS your role.
Yes this 100%
Yes this 100%
Thanks ESMOD
Thanks ESMOD
this lady is hourly and she had the audacity to ask me today is it fixed.
In my mind I'm like "bruh I told you yesterday about the discrepancy and you didn't give two f*cks then as you skedaddled out whilst ignoring my private messages to help you yesterday" .... but I just told her to take it up with our workforce management who flagged her.
My manager is noticing her and a couple others ignoring their work instant/private messages and he said he would pay attention to her trying to take unauthorized leave
I can do about 75% of what my manager does (I fill in for him and lead the team when he's not there). I coach their performance and write documentation about their performance so while I don't think I can directly write them up, I can communicate with my manager who can use my documents to write them up.
It sounds like the manager
It sounds like the manager may need to have some communication with the team and explain exactly what your role is. Some may just assume you are being "bossy and overstepping".. when not realizing what the role actually is intended to do. They may think "track performance".. but not see that you are in charge of their output and will need to try to help them improve.
I think letting the worker go to workforce for that time issue.. or your manager is appropriate.
If hourly.. they should not be paid for the time obviously.. and your manager needs to see if they feel it is a big enough idea to write her up. She may feel if her work is "done" leaving a little early is ok.. if she clocks out.. that may need to be a reminder not an official write up for a minor offense.
Document!
Recommend the above advice, and that you follow up on the IM's with emails that include screenshots of your IM's to her so it's documented. Also immediate email re-caps to her after any one-on-one meetings so you have documentation of what was said, in case she tries to lie later and gets you into a "He said, she said" investgation.
Co-workers & employees can be tricky!
Thanks y'all ... these tips
Thanks y'all ... these tips are golden!
I gotta do better with "sandwich" method when I'm giving feedback ... I'll see if I can find some trainings in these areas
And document any verbal discussions .... juuuust in case
I sent a group message plus
I sent a group message plus my manager telling them to stop ignoring private messages
Thank goodness he's seeing the problem and said something too
Heh heh sandwich method. As
Heh heh sandwich method. As someone who also manages people... sometimes it's damn hard to find bread around here.
Ahem...
"You done a good job wiping your feet before you come into the office but unfortunately you've cheated the company out of 80 hours of paid labor this month as you keep sneaking out the back door after lunch. Still we appreciate you keeping the office refrigerator cleaned out while you eat everyone else's food that don't belong to you..."
Lol. Classic
Heh heh sandwich method. As
Lololol!!!
The struggle is REAL!
Like thanks for doing the bare minimum today!
Thanks for making me work harder so you don't have to!
Thanks for being a grade A c*nt!
unfortunately you've cheated
I went to a meeting today (why didn't anyone tell me you'd have a plethora of meetings half of them are total waste of time as the speakers ramble on about nothing) but this meeting was about people not showing up and costing the company money.
I didn't realize they get fined (a LOT of money) for not having the people there who they said would be there.
Many of the biggest challenges in my management career are due
to prior leaders not documenting performance issues. Or even worse, companies that pull reprimands or performance write ups after a period of "good" performance. Nope, those have to stay in that employees file for their entire time with that company. Far too many performance problems will get and keep their shit together for as long as it takes for the write up to expire. Then... the same shit surfaces.
I am glad that you documented and escalated the performance issue with this individual. Never forget, everyone you work with is your competition and many take the position that you are to be undermined.
I am a developer, I build talent and leaders. Fortunately far more than the majority are quality people and quality leaders. However, occassionally someone that you invest in will attempt to undermine you in an effort to take your job or undermine a future opportunity for you to minimize their own competition for those roles.
So.. document, document, document. Do regular performance updates with each of your direct reports so that when annual reviews/appraisals are done there are no surprises. If they require formal coaching or reprimands, refer to your performance updates, guidance, and discussions and refer to them by date and topic when necessary when doing the annual performance appraisal.
I also utilize a "Memorandum for the Record" file system where I write a memorandum referencing the date, who is present, and what is discussed or what occurred. If necessary I forward a copy to my boss or HR when I decide a situation warrants it.
Rarely do complainers document anything until they engage HR. Usually their report is verbal whining, etc... that is put into a very brief form. A memorandum for the record with detail, sutuation, results, who said what, and what the leader stipulated that others were instructed to do, saved in both Word and PDF, will bolt HR and Sr. leadership into addressing the problem child rather than deflecting to the problem child's direct report leader as the problem.
I have had Sr. HR and Sr management try that with me. They tend to get very quiet and supportive when they hare handed a printed copy of the "Memorandum for the Record".
My lesson moment on this was when I inherrited an organization that had a number of performance problem employees who were transferred to the org prior to my being hired to lead it. When their performance crap resurfaced and I could find nothing but strong performance appraisals I set up 1:1 meeting swith all of the problem employee's former leaders. The ones that were still with the company. All of those managers had extensive experience with those same people and their performance crap. When I asked why there was no record of it and nothing but 3 or better performance appraisals in the employee record... I got sheepish carpet scoping. They all then recounted that they had written the performance problem up more than once then would pull the write up after 90days of drama free performance.
I already had the Memorandum for the Record system in place. I then started doing formal write ups, reviewing those with the problem employee, then notifying them that the reprimand would remain in their file. It would never be removed and if they repeated that infraction again... ever... I would terminate them.
Suddenly, my team stabilized, everyone did their job, and we collectivley outperformed the other identical organization.
I did have a major incident with a problem employee about a year after I did the interviews with the prior leaders of my problem children. My boss, the HR Director and I met regarding the problem and the complaint the employee made. We then had a meeting with the same people plus the employee. The HR Director stabbed me in the back and scolded me and the problem employee that we had to learn to get along. I immediately ended the meeting, send my employee out, and addressed the HR Director that it was unacceptable that they had stabbed me in the back. I then slid the printed copy of the Memorandum and the formal write up I had done and reviewed with the employee that was in the personnel file and would not be removed. HR Director got angry and told me that the record would be removed. I told them to read the Memorandum for the Record in detail becuase the write up was referenced and included in the Memorandum.
Suddenly, the HR Director got far more collaborative in addressing the problem.
Hopefully you will not get into a contentious interface with HR over a crap employee. But, it is better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
I may go after my former employer legally as soon as I start my next role. I have advice from a labor attornney that the lost income for my job seach supports compensatory damages and the hostile work environment, wrongful tgermination, and co-employment issues could add punative damages. The attorney grinned when I provided the pile of Memorandums. I have never sued an employer before, I'm not sure I will. But... everyone I have spoken with, mentors, lawyers, colleagues, etc... advise me to go after them.
Not sure yet. But I may.
I have been part of a few corporate legal actions where my Memorandum's have been included and used by the company I worked for at the time in defending a law suit from a customer. I keep the Memorandums, Snip emails and instant messages, and put them in a dated file on my hard drive. I back my harddrive onto a personal Terabyte drive ~quarterly. I still get calls from the corporate attorneys of a company I was with for 11yrs. I left that company in 2015. A client company sued to hold my former company accountable for infant mortality equipment failures that my company did not cause. The owner company had contracted with us to do condition assessments and preservation maintenance on equipment they had mothballed when they canceled a $Multi-billion industrial project. When they canceled they abandoned the equipment where it was and paid storage. A lot of it was outside.
After 5yrs the owner/cient relaunched the industrial development and engaged my firm to do the build. I was Project Director for equipment inspection, preservation, and maintenance for all stored equipment and critical spares that had been purchased during the original phase.
We set up the inspection, preservation, and maintenance schedules, coordinated it with the owner and my teams were travelong all over the world to assess and maintain. After several months my teams started arriving at storage locations to find the equipment gone. The owner had it picked up and shipped without informing us. For some reason I had the only record of the owner shipping the material, not allowing us to assess, preserve, and maintain. Also an email from a Sr. customer executive climbing my ass and instructing me to stop all assessment, preservation, and maintenance. When the corroded crusty crap that, though "new" and unused, was installed and commissioned, it started failing. So, the owner company went after my former company.
I had it all in several Memorandums with dates, names, etc... indluding Snips of emails, written transcripts of telephone conversations, etc...
Document and retain. It can be a benefit for you in dealing with challenging employees or a spineless HR or Sr. management team. It can also be a benefit to your employer. Even years later.
Though you do want to comply with record retention rules for your company, I consider a Memorandum for the Record to be my personal record. I do not send them electronically usually. If I am sharing them with HR, Executive Mgt, etc... I usually print it and give them a hard copy. That allows them to admit that they have them, or not. But they know I have them. When I give a printed copy... I write a MftR documenting the conversation where I provided the printed copy.
It sounds like it takes a ton of time, it really doesn't. As not all that much that goes on warrants an MftR. In the 20+yrs I have been using the MftR system, I have spent no more than a ~dozen or so hours on writing them.
Wow thanks for sharing your
Wow thanks for sharing your story
I know for certain I will be more meticulous of documenting
LOL @ "spineless HR"
Great advice, Rags!
Great advice, Rags!
During my only (and hated) supervisory stint, 'document, document, document' was crucial to maintaining control over a young and often immature staff. The ability to prove poor yet disputed performance reviews by keeping scrupulous records saved my bacon more than once. And you are correct, doing so was not particularly time consuming.
Lilly has been provided with some excellent advice from StepTalk members today. My own challenge with managerial work was having to be ruthless; a tough role for a people pleaser. Fortunately, Lilly, you’ve proven that you can be hardnosed when necessary!
Thanks gd.
Just my experience.
Happy to share it and I hope it can help.
You are a supervisor
Or as they say stupid visor. People need other people to hate, blame there faults and problems on others. You know that story.
Peopje under you supervision, will hate you. That a fact. Hope you are getting enough lot of it. I became a supervisor in my 30 'S Hing like 40 people under me. Therlin some one older then your father what to do, takes getting used too.
I disagree that supervisors
I disagree that supervisors are hated generally. I have worked with many managers and supervisors that were very good at their role.. and my current manager is wonderful.. respects that we are professionals and trusts us to get our work done without micromanaging.. and will step up for us when needed.
I will say that the "lower down the ladder".. you are.. it is probably more likely because the workers are less professional.. their jobs are more menial.. and unskilled.. meaning you are working with a pool of people that may not all have the same work ethic... and let things outside their work impact their time at work.
That's also the level where you are likely to have people that are new to management and supervisory roles and when people come up the ranks.. they can sometimes have styles that grate on their employees.. They may micro manage (because they don't know how to manage).. they may nit pick.. they may play favorites with their former buddy coworkers.. etc.. Supervising people is a skill that is tough to take on.. sometimes people get "power trippy" with it.. and that rubs their former peers wrong. They also can bring along baggage as former coworkers where they may have overshared things in their lives that now are making their subordinates feel too familiar.. or not respectful.
Coming from outside a group is not really a huge help.. I came into a group once into a lead position and one of the existing people in the group had wanted the job.. and I came from outside the company.. so she and her cronies were against me from the start.. fortunately.. I got out of that group within a few years..
and.. in those early career bumps.. people are often younger.. and it can be harder to get respect..
respects that we are
Just curious how you would define micromanaging
Im wondering if me trying to be proactive comes off as micromanaging
This is all definitely a learning process for me.
Yeah I figure everyone won't
Yeah I figure everyone won't like me or my style of leading. There's 2 people out of 17 that are like militant Disneyland parents being held accountable for adequately parenting their feral spawns.
I could pick up that this lady has some sort of bias and even further when she said she regretted turning down this role (as we moved from colleagues to me being in more of a leading position) ... some folks don't like being led by people younger, less credentialed, etc than they are
She also doesn't realize it but she is already now in a leadership position too (she may not directly be responsible for team performance but her expertise is one way to show the newbie's how to perform to the best of their abilities)
This thread also made me realize some of the things I could learn to do better myself.
Absolutely, ESMOD!
Absolutely, ESMOD!
I was blessed with that type of supervisor for the last two decades of my working years. Our agency's standing among more than a dozen satellite offices was consistently number one, all because of the best boss I've ever known. He was almost laisser-faire in his management style; giving us nearly free rein, liberal with days off/early leaving, supportive, honest, just and kind. One of our best anecdotes about ‘Frank’ was an occasion when he ‘suggested’ how an employee might make an improvement in one of his duties. Afterwards, our co-worker told us what had been discussed and, puzzled, asked, "Has he (‘Frank’) just told me off?
‘Frank’ had a wonderful sense of humour and a big, booming laugh. When he died, his funeral was 'standing room only' in a big church.' We loved him. I still think of him and smile, 20 years after his death. So yes indeed, ESMOD, it’s possible to have a supervisor of whom no one speaks ill.