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Lt. Dad's Fireside Chat: You Don't NEED Your SO...

lieutenant_dad's picture

Yes, yes, come take a seat STalkers. Veteran members, grab your two cents for the collection box. Aniki, mix us up something good at the bar.

If you're new and never been to one of my fireside chats, here's what you need to know:

I start a thread on a specific topic and offer my advice. Then, I open the floor for veteran members and the well-initiated to share additional insight, feedback, etc.

Today's chat is going to be short from me. STalkers - you don't NEED your SO. You WANT your SO.

If you are in a position where you NEED them to survive, then you NEED to be focusing on getting yourself in a better position and not reliant on another human being who can leave you high and dry at any moment. 

If you find yourself in a position where your SO NEEDS you to survive, then you NEED to get into a position where you aren't bankrolling their poor decisions. They are fully-functioning adults who need to handle their own responsibilities.

If you ever find yourself not being able to truthfully say "I don't NEED my SO, I just WANT them", then you need to reconsider your relationship.

Note that I say all of this barring illnesses, injuries, and temporary bad situations. If you're in the middle of cancer treatment or recently lost your job (or vice versa), this doesn't apply to you. I'm talking about sustained behavior that is the result of CHOICES being made, not circumstances outside one's control.

Alright lovelies, I'm passing around the donation box. Offer up your two cents as you see fit.

Comments

tog redux's picture

Don't have more kids than your SO and you can support and then blame his child support for causing you financial hardship. If he has to pay CS, put that in your budget rather than being bitter that he has to support his older kids as well as yours.  Might mean you have one instead of two kids, but that's the price you pay for procreating with a man who has other kids. 
 

It's kind of related, right?

lieutenant_dad's picture

In a roundabout way, yes.

As a SP, our wants are important, but they can't trump established needs, like CS. Don't give up all your wants to help someone else meet their needs, but also don't punish someone for their needs when you knew about them beforehand. Your SO doesn't NEED you, either, and if you make meeting their needs a problem, you'll stop being a want.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

But...there's "punishing someone for their needs" and there's also setting the boundary that you won't allow their needs to consume your life. Some people won't meet their own needs if there's someone else willing to. Or, for various reasons, make things much harder than they need to be, and expect everyone around them to help them. 

StepUltimate's picture

Exactly.

ESMOD's picture

I think it is related.  I don't think it's fair to burden someone else with a "need" they aren't equipped to provide for.

I believe we need to acknowledge the obligations that our significant others enter the relationship with.  Whether it be a spousal support order, child support order or crippling load of credit card debt.  Much like some physical limitation or impairment, if we accept this person, we have to be able to accept and work within the constraints that being with them brings.

A completely un steprelated example. If you  marry a blind person, you will likely not ever be able to ask them to take a turn at the wheel on your road trips.  If you NEED/WANT for your SO to be able to drive.. perhaps you have your own driving issues.. then perhaps it is foolish to partner with someone who can't meet that need? (assuming neither can pay for transportation othewise)

 

The same goes with someone who has children from a prior relationship.  I am not saying we should all know what we are getting into.. but to an extent.. it doesn't take a rocket doctor to understand that our SO's have obligations and that these kids will be part of our lives whether we "like it or not". 

So, just like it's unrealistic to expect someone who has a crippling load of credit card, vehicle and student loan debt to be full partners to us in that fancy mcmansion in the subburbs... we can't always expect that our SO has the bandwith emotionally or financially to parent more children. 

If having kids is important to you.. you may need to consider what that will mean.. if your spouse can't afford it.. will you willingly and without resentment be able to shoulder more of that burden?  If you can't.. then you have resentment if you have the kid and he can't help.. and resentment if you stay and can't have a child because of his prior obligation.  In this situation the smart thing is to not have a relationship with that person.  It's not fair to move forward with your plans "damn everyone else" and then resent everyone for the stress that your decision to ignore reality causes you.

Sure, sometimes circumstances change.. in the rare case a child appears out of nowhere.. or a custody case turns things upside down.. but it seems that in almost every case here. the general extent of the guy's obligation was known.. yet they forged ahead and "got pregnant".. because they wanted what they wanted.. whether it was the right move or not.

 

 

CastleJJ's picture

DH and I did this. When we budgeted to see if we could afford to have a baby last August, we calculated in CS with that, just as you would a normal bill. At the time, we couldn't afford it. We have since gone through a few raises and promotions and now feel comfortable with our financial situation to be able to provide for a child of our own. We are still figuring out logistics to ensure future financial stability and success.

DH and I want a baby, especially since he had SS when he was 20 years old and we only see SS 6 weeks per year. DH wants the opportunity to actually experience parenthood, but we weren't willing to put either of us in a position to not be able to provide or to create resentment. Ive told DH that yes, I want children, but I'm not going to get pregnant until we can afford it. I'm not going to get pregnant just because I want to. I understood when I met DH that it would be more difficult for us financially because of his obligation to SS. I dont necessarily agree with the CS process, I believe it could be improved, but I do agree that DH needs to support SS. This just means that DH and I have just had to get creative with our budgeting and saving methods. 

Too many people jump into these relationships thinking it will be all sunshine and rainbows. Talking money and logistics isn't always fun, but it is necessary in these relationships because these relationships come with additional obligations. It isnt going to be dreamy and easy. 

thinker's picture

We had our child together when H's kids were becoming adults themselves.  As child support ended, it has been replaced with an even greater level of spending on the adult stepchildren, between super expensive private colleges, spring break trips, fraternity dues, flights back and forth, ski passes, cell phone bills (even after one is now employed full time, dad still pays his cell phone), health insurance (the oldest just stays on dad's insurance even though he is employed full time, because why not).... These are not expenses that I anticipated would continue into adulthood.  Should I have?  Maybe.  H does all this, but he HATES that I allocate a portion of my paycheck to a 529 plan for our daughter, or that I max out my 401k (as I always have, starting over a decade before we were married).  So, now we have a lot of debt because we have conflicting priorities, and I have a lot of resentment toward H.  I think the only real solution is to avoid marrying someone who already has children.  It is too hard. 

tog redux's picture

I can guarantee my DH will never give SS21 one unearned nickel now that CS is done. 

advice.only2's picture

Don't fall for the "They are your kids now and you need to love and support them like your own."

No relationship should ever result in you fearing for your life, your job or your freedom.

halo1998's picture

go forth, get a career, make your money, have your adventures and then  marry.  Above all.ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOU CAN SUPPORT YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILDREN..ON YOUR OWN.  Period.

Never be in the position that you NEED someone.  I put up with a lot of abuse from DD's and DS's dad.the Village Idiot..but I was fully able to support myself and my kids when I left him.  I didn't NEED him.  That was something he didn't account for in his quest to control me.

I have always told DH...I don't NEED you...I WANT you around..there is a difference.  It took DH a long while to understand and accept this.  He was used to having women that NEEDED him for his money, job, security..whatever.  I needed none of those things...I had them all by myself.  He had to come to terms with he coudn't dictate how things were going to go..because at any point in time I could say...bye bye bye..and be just freaking fine without him.  It for certain alters the dymanics of a relationship and evens the power structure.

As I have told my kids..no one goes into a marriage thinking they will be divorced.  Things happen...not only divorce, death, etc.  You cannot control others...perhaps you don't want to divorce but your partner does...or there is an illness or death.  Be prepared to do it on your own..hopefully you won't have to but hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

 

ESMOD's picture

When you "need" someone, they hold higher power in the relationship.  Ideally, in a good marriage/partnership the balance of power is fairly equal.  My SO may rely on me for some things.. but there is a balance of things I may rely on HIM to accomplish to move our lives forward.  If it gets to be too unbalanced and one person has a bigger control of the power.. resentments can enter the relationship.

halo1998's picture

than I am..I don't need him to do them.  I can do them..I just don't since he is better.  Dh does the same with me.  Each of use, however, can survive just find without each other if we had to.  We make a choice to be with each other.

ESMOD's picture

I have always maintained that it is better to be wanted than needed.  I don't want someone to be with me just because they can't afford to live on their own... or because they need me to do things for them.  i don't want to be with my SO because I can't manage to cut the lawn or get my car serviced.  

My spouse may do things for me that I could do for myself.  He might even do them BETTER than me.. faster... more neatly.. and I may be providing benefits to my husband.. like when he and his kids were on my insurance because it was the cheaper option for better coverage.  But.. he could have managed to get insurance on his own if he had to.. and I could have gotten my oil changed.. though it would have meant money out of my pocket at the garage vs my DH doing the job at home.

And I am not trying to confuse the matter but our SO's do fulfill emotional needs for us.. but we shouldn't be at a point where you may resent your partner because you have to rely on them to provide for your basic physical needs.. housing, child care, financial support etc....

This is why the concept of being a SAHP in steplife is such a minefield.  Logically, if one person is willing to shoulder 100% of the financial burden of a household then the other person should be willing to shoulder the lion's share of the "homemaker tasks" (for lack of a better word).. which would include child care for the children.. including children from a prior relationship. whether they be yours or theirs.  Because, one of the benefits (and one of the factors in it even being possible) of having a SAHP is the avoidance of child care costs.. if you have to add that back for some of the kids?  it may make that arrangement financially unworkable.  But, as we see here often, there are many issues that surround a SP being put in control of the Skids.. so sometimes it would be better if both parties work outside the home.. and both contribute appropriately for their own child's care needs.

But back to the want vs need.  If you find yourself thinking "If I didn't need someplace to live(or insert thing).. I would be OUT OF HERE"  too often?  You are not in the right relationship.

 

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Speak it, LD! The very bottom line is that I don't NEED anyone.

I have some tasty hot apple cider, a full range of teas, any coffee drink your little heart desires, and breakfast/brunch cocktails (it's 11am here!). Mimosas, Screwdrivers, Bloody Marys Bloody Marias, Salty Dogs, Greyhounds, Bellinis, champagne... Aniki's bar is OPEN - name your poison STalkers. 

Merry's picture

I've learned a few things about this topic over the years. I'm in a great place now, but wasn't always the case.

My DH always worked. His first wife (the practice wife) was highly educated but wouldn't work -- too much stress, fought with coworkers, got fired, couldn't "handle it," etc. So DH worked his main job plus jobs on the side to make ends meet and raise his kids.

Then he married me -- stable, good job, good income, good credit. About a year after we were married HE went off the deep end with depression and anxiety and wouldn't address it, and he hid it pretty well from me. Got fired from two good jobs in pretty rapid succession. Wow, I really felt duped and my resentment was through the roof. Not for the mental health issues, but because of his dishonesty with me and my new burden of taking care of a grown ass man who refused, for a time, to help himself.

After a series of broken promises, I gave him a choice. He was to get himself into therapy, get treatment for his health issues, and work his ass off to rebuild trust, OR he could find another place to live. He KNEW I didn't need him. And he learned that his dependency on me was a total turnoff, so I was pretty close to not WANTING him either.

He did everything I asked. It was hard. I didn't know if our marriage would survive, but it did. It's changed, but we're both happy together again. I'm still the primary breadwinner, but I don't mind that at all, as long as he's contributing to the household and the marriage.

NoWireCoatHangarsEVER's picture

My mom had only ever worked at Winn Dixie and we had to move into my grandparents home while she went to school for pharmacy. From that moment on my mom taught me always, always be able to take care of yourself and your children. Have a marketable skill because divorce happens, death happens, job loss, and cancer happens. Never ever rely on someone else. Boy did that Save me when I caught my now ex husband cheating on me when I was pregnant with our third daughter. I didn't lose my house and I didn't have to move in with my mom.

 

I couldn't agree with this post more and it's how I am raising my four children now. I have supported two dead beat men in my lifetime also. 

CLove's picture

At the beginning of our relationship, DH was working full time, and I was working 12 hours/week. I job hopped a bit. Slowly building up experiencing in a new field, and increasing my wages. That back when I NEEDED him. Now, we make equal pay, have continued to separate finances, and equally contribute to the mortgage, bills and household.

The power shift was incredible. I see time and again, many steppers being trapped into something miserable simply because of financial NEED. Or emotional NEED. Many times the advice we give is to get out and get that job or better job. Get out of that NEED CORNER they are trapped inside of. The NEED CAGE, might have nice tiles and furnishings, but it is still a cage.

ESMOD's picture

I think just the fact that the "power" in the relationship becomes more equal.. other things and treatment just follows suit.  If you are a SAHP.. you are a dependent on your spouse.. just the same as his kids.. just another person with their hand out wanting something from you.  Once you are on your own feet financially.. you become a partner in providing for the home and family.

I'm not saying that taking care of the kids and home have "no value".. but like it or not, financial power is a major factor for a lot of relationships.  

It's not even just a man/woman thing.  I know a woman who's husband has been a sAHP to their three kids because her earning power was higher.. and they originally felt the benefit to having a parent at home with the kids outweighed the small marginal benefit that his salary would provide after acounting for child care etc...  (they are a "first family btw).  Several years later.. they are having problems.. she is frustrated because after working 10-12 hour days, she comes home to a wreck of a house.. no meal prepared etc.. she wants to know "what did he do with his day"?  He is resenting her questioning his value there.. and she is now in a position where if they split.. SHE would likely be paying a boatload of spousal support and CS to him... (shoe on the other foot.. ).  

That SAHP gig can look sweet.. but it's kind of a gilded cage to some.. where their spouse feels they have the right to question how they are doing their job.. because they feel that they are "paying" for their services by supporting them and not getting what they are paying for.

Cover1W's picture

Need is a loaded word - I really, all my life, bristled against the idea of "needing" anyone and couldn't wait to get out of my parents home. I didn't need them any longer and there was a lack of 'want' in my relatinoship with them because they were allllll about NEED.  Need comes with requirements and goalposts that keep moving.

I confused Need/Want in my exH. I needed him to feel better, to be part of a couple, to need to need someone. It morphed into WANTING something more but he was, like my parents, all about need. If I didn't meet whatever need he threw at me I was therefore not wanted. 

Now, with DH, we don't NEED each other for survival, for basic emotional validation, for anything. But we certainsly Want to be there for each other, we want to talk at the end of the day, we want to help each other (yeah, even if he's not great at basic stuff he does acknowledge his weakness). We actually talk about this here and there too - how we are glad to just be together and helping each other with various things. It took him a bit with the SDs to figure out that he didn't NEED me to help with them but he WANTED me to -  and that was dependent on my own Wants. Once we got there it's been much better.

This is a great thread.