Difficult BM driving us crazy
Hello all!
I've been lurking here for a while, and reading posts for inspiration and help.
So, I've been with my boyfriend *air_kiss* for almost 3,5 years. He's been divorced for more than 4 years (with 50% custody) and he has an amazing 8 year old daughter who is basically the apple of our eyes. The BM is horrible. She's aggressive and selfish and threatening.
Whenever we call her on it, she poses as a victim. She can switch anything to make her look as the one who's suffering. For the duration of our relationship, we've been extremely slow, in order to protect her feelings. Slow in meeting the SD, we took 2 years to move in - again, to not irk the BM - and we have taken activities with SD slowly. Everytime we've progressed she has raised hell. Picking up the girl from school (which I've done a few times) resulted in massive scandals. We've recently asked if we can have a weekend trip with her, in 4 months. The BM lost her mind and said that she would never allow a stranger (me) to spend time with her daughter. But she's avoided meeting me, or talking to me, visting our home to see how her daughter lives, and insulted both me and my SO. We don't know how to proceed anymore. It's not about us not knowing how to handle a difficult person, but how to handle her without affecting the SD.
SD is sweet, kind and loveable. She's an angel who has already shown stress (biting nails, being very quiet, just freezing) seeing her mom's crazy behaviour. We constantly try to show what a stable home looks like (her SM has been switching partners a bit; which she introduced to her daughter... without informing us). And while we know everything is unfair, we choose to sacrifice different things, in our life, in order to make SDs life easier. But now, we're just at a loss. We feel like a doormat, always stepped over. We know confrontation will result into BM telling SD that "daddy left because we can't make him happy" and stuff like that (even if there's 50% custody and he's the most amazing dad). And we know that the kid is smart enough to understand... but, but it's crushing us to have to put a child through the situation of being explained their mother is broken. No kid should go through that. *dash1*
How can one deal with that? We hoped that being civil and giving her time, will result in civil behaviour. Obiously, we were completely idiotic in believing that.
All advice is welcomed, thanks!
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Comments
If he has 50/50, why the need
If he has 50/50, why the need to ask to take the kiddo on a weekend trip?
Your BF is giving BM way too
Your BF is giving BM way too much power and control. Dad has 50% custody. He runs the show in his own home. He gets to decide when he'll introduce new people to SD, when he moves in with a GF, and who is allowed to pick SD up from school on his time. Unless he needs to trade days with her, he does not need her permission to take SD away for a weekend. Heck, he doesn't even have to tell her you're going. This BM doesn't sound like a reasonable woman, so don't give her any say in your lives. She doesn't check with your BF before introducing SD to a new man (nor does she need to), so why is he extending that courtesy or "going slow" so as not to irk her? She doesn't need to meet you, she doesn't need to see where her daughter lives at your house and she doesn't need to know who is picking SD up at school. If she's so high conflict that she's losing her mind over little things, maybe you need to switch communication to Our Family Wizard, or switch exchanges so they take place at school or the babysitter or wherever. That way SD won't need to see her mother go off on her father.
What is BM doing that is distressing SD? How does the custody schedule work? Is it week on/week off, or are there more frequent exchanges?
^^^ Yep. Let’s just take a
^^^ Yep. Let’s just take a moment to be thankful that BM hasn’t actually tried to come over to see your place! Chances are nothing good will come from her being in your space. She has shown that she is wanting to cause conflict with you both. Don’t give her opportunities to do so. Meaning, limit conversation (Our Family Wizard is great for lessening conflict if it is really an issue, like it was for us!), limit interactions with pickup/drop off for SD, and stop worrying about what she will think about everything. Live your life.
I totally understand the desire to make things easier for SD, and wanting to have a good relationship with BM. Unfortunately, often times they want nothing to do with that. Most of them can’t see past the fact that you are a new woman in SD’s life, and they are flat out jealous. 2 years after I moved in, BM here filed for 50/50 custody, and one of her points was that my SO had skids living with a “stranger” . Apparently 2 years of living together still makes me a stranger! I tried to be nice to BM, she wants nothing to do with it. It is MUCH easier to avoid contact at all costs. It also makes it easier on SD9 and SS12, since they don’t have to witness conflict. It’s unfortunate that it has to be this way.
He is
What is BM doing that is distressing SD?
She spent the first years telling her that BF left "them" because "they" weren't making him happy. That he wanted someone younger and he was selfish, putting SD on the second place. And there were some moments where she raged in phone calls and texts (yelling, insulting etc), when SD was at home.
The triggers for BM to lose her s**t were: she saw that me and SD are texting each other on her iPad. She found out me and BF live together (she was told many times before..). BF asked for a day extra that BM has SD, so that me and him could be on a holiday (she said she will do nothing to help us be happy together
). Anwyay...all the rage shows were with triggers like this.
Is it week on/week off, or are there more frequent exchanges?
Week on week off - but we also have a mid week exchange.
So like, 3 days us, 1 day BM, 3 days us. And vice versa. We'll probably switch to full week soon. But she was tiny when this was decided and it was too much for her to be away from a parent for a whole week.
I assume that your boyfriend
I assume that your boyfriend has talked to his daughter and assured her that he did NOT leave her, and SHE makes him happy. I think it's important, when you have a BM like that, to counter things she says like that which are simply untrue. And no way would I ever ask her for a favor - get a babysitter before you ask her to keep the child another day if it's going to set her off. I feel for you, because with a crazy, bitter BM like that, it's often hard to know in advance what will set her off.
My SO and BM have week on/week off, but they don't follow that and do 5/5/2/2 because the kids are too young to go a whole week without the other parent, so it sounds like the same situation you have. Luckily the BM in my world is sane, so we can do that. At 8, your SD is probably old enough to do week on/week off, and hopefully cutting down on exchanges will help.
:)
We both tell SD very frequently that we love her. And the BF especially did in the beginning. He has been extremely reassuring. Basically, our solution until now was to cocoon SD with love, as protection against the crazy BM.
Wow, we do have similar week on week off patterns! And yes, the idea with baby/sitter and anything to avoid settig her off!
You can't handle her and keep
You can't handle her and keep SD out of it. BM won't allow that. You need to rethink this. What you need to do is to raise SD to be able to function in spite of her mother. That means, facts, truth, keeping her grounded in reality and to be able to think critically. For example, when BM spits out some BS, ask SD why her mother would do that, say that, something that gets SD thinking about her mother's behavior. Never explain BM to SD, coach her to think about it. You can say that's not how you do things, but this is your choice, BM has hers. ETC..........
Practicing parallel parenting,. What happens in each house is led by that parent, no cross over. SD will adapt.. Mine did.
DH might also think about calling BM on her crap and putting her on notice that he left BM, not SD and to stop confusing the two things. They are not connected. MY DH had to do that, in an email and I will say it did make a difference. Alas he did it too late and 3 of my skids are alientated but the youngest SD is still in contact with her father. She is 18 now. They divorced when she was 5.
There are a couple of websites that may help you learn how to deal with high conflict personalities. www.shink4 men.com. drgeorgesimon.com are two of my favorites. Google Dr. Craig Childress and Divorce Poison for other ideas and to be able to understand the damage caused by" pathological parenting".
Any parent who is so insecure or full of hate that would come between a child and her other parent is practicing emotional child abuse IMO. It leaves lasting scars that may never be fully healed. If you think you have a chance of getting SD thru this, then go for it. Not every one wins this battle but some do. My DH won 1 out 4 skids.
^^^THIS^^^
Parallel parenting is what you guys need. And consider that while a lot of exes ramp up bad behavior when faced with milestones like ex getting a GF, ex getting married, ex having another child, etc, your BM might just be a general PITA, high conflict parent. You can't work with or coparent with such a person, hence the need for parallel parenting.
Yes!
Fully agreed. We're looking at how to tackle that.
I'll start reading on parallel parenting! The idea of asking a child to question the parent's behaviour at such a young age is involuntarily painful. We want to spare her all this sorrow and stress. But it's for sure the healthier approach, long term. We'll do all the reseach before beginning this.
You can't handle her and keep
dup
Your SO is doing just what BM
Your SO is doing just what BM has trained him to do - walk on eggshells around her, trying not to set her off. It won't work, much like it didn't work in his marriage to her. You can't control what she does, and unless your SO gives in and gives her everything she wants, she will be unhappy. And trust me, SD know this, she knows who her mother is - she's been watching it since birth. Mothers like this enmesh with their children and need the child to take care of them. So you can bet she's hearing all sorts of stuff about you and SO.
Time for your SO to show what kind of man he is. There are two kinds on this board and both of them are afraid of losing their children to BM, but they handle it differently: 1) the kind who keep giving in, kissing BM's ass, doing what she wants, allowing the skids a lot of power, etc and 2) the kind who stand up to BM, set boundaries, refuse to allow BM to control things in their house and protect their wives from BM's crazy. Which one will yours turn out to be? This is a turning point.
My DH is type 2, and he came down hard on BM. My SS was great at 10, but gradually he fell into BM's clutches and was totally alienated by 15. We tried all the critical thinking, info about parental alienation ,etc, and it didn't work for him. My research on parental alienation shows that anxious kids who want to please, and who feel they have to care for their sick parent (BM), are likely to be alienated. So keep that in mind with your anxious SD. I think my SS finally just wanted to be out of the middle and out of BM's line of fire, so he just gave up his relationship with his dad. He's back now, at age 18, kind of - it's superficial and he's still BM's pawn.
As for you, I know right now you think this man is totally worth all this trouble, and he may well be -after all, I'm still with DH after all of the crap we've been through. But that's only because he did set boundaries on BM, protected me, and chose our life of sanity over chasing his son and trying to keep a relationship with him.
Exes like this don't ever quit, not really. She will be a thorn in your side for the rest of her life. There may be quiet times, but she will be back.
BMs from hell
She's 8! <banging head on keyboard>. I'm all for giving everyone of these hateful BMs frontal labotamies. These crazy BMs are ceaseless in their plight to create stephell. It's not divorce that ruins children, it's selfish parents who can never rise above their own issues for the benefit of the children.
My SD24 is the poster child of a "brainwashing" narcissistic BM who lives vicariously through her. Unfortunately, SD has become a carbon copy of BM and there's not a damn thing DH or I can do at this point. I sincerely hope that you and DH fare better. The children become minions - BMs' personal funnels for their hate-inspired existence, mere weapons in their arsenal of twisted malice.
My SIL said something to me last week that stuck. "It really wouldn't matter if it was YOU. Regardless of who DH was with, BM would find a way to destroy it. YOU can never be first." BM and SD consider DH as property - forever chained to their emotional and financial whims. When we moved in together, their tactics to divide and conquer became desperate and amplified.
You've been given great information by probably some of the wisest and most step-experienced people who give their time to this forum. Heed the warnings. And because you sound like a very open-hearted individual, heed them all the more! Arm yourself with every bit of information you can find...you are going to be dragged into a highly emotional battle and the kid is going to be caught in the crossfire. DH is going to have to put his foot down and that is going to amplify BM's response.
Tell the "truth" in an age-appropriate way to SD. Truth is not the same as "trash talking" BM...stay steadfast with your integrity and find a way to do this. I would also start researching the emotional development stage of 8 year olds. Children pick up on much more than we give them credit for - good and bad.
I hope that custody laws will change soon and give credence to the damage PAS (parental alienation syndrome) creates. The issue of "blended families" is still emergent and there is a lack of support from the therapeutic and legal ends of the spectrum.
People are correct
You are giving BM to much power, and you are kissing her ass for approval. You will never get her approve. Stop trying. You have 50% / 50% . You do on your time what you want. You don’t have to asked BM. You want to go away, go away. If you are going out of state, let SD tell her. SD. An call to tell her she mad it and is ok, what she doing ect. That up to SD and BM. I would encourage her to keep checking in if she is away . Other than that, it’s not up to you.
SD is 8 now and will be 9, then 10. The older she getts the more it on her.
You guys are giving BM
You guys are giving BM WAAAAAY too much control. Why is she the boss? Live your lives. Quit worrying so much about BM. Let her worry about herself. No matter what you do, she won't be happy, so you guys might as well be.
If your SO has 50% custody
If your SO has 50% custody then he is 100% in control of what happens when the girl is with him. He does not need his Ex's permission to date.. or to introduce her to a girlfriend. He doesn't have to get her permission to allow another family member or friend to pick her up when it is HIS time. He doesn't have to ask her permission to go on a trip with you.. unless it is out of state and THAT is part of the CO.. notification or permission for out of state trips. even then, she cannot dictate the guest list!
He needs to stop engaging with her. He can parent his child without checking with her for everything.
Oh my
First of all, i cannot begin to explain how grateful I am for all of your feedback. This level of response is beyond my wildest imagination :D! I've taken my SO aside and we've read all the comments together, nodding at times and throwing our hands in the air in frustration with "I know, right??" and "OMG she's totally like that!".
So we've taken a few steps based on your amazing advice... even if mostly mental.
1. We have spoken to SD as she'll be at her BM's for a week now. We expect that the BM will try to say all sorts of lies and ask her to take sides and such, and present the weekend trip in a completely different way. We've told her that we love her and there's no sides, and that her mom is reacting this way for reasons we cannot know 100%, but that it has nothing to do with her. That's a heck of a way for an 8 year old to find out they will see the Harry Potter studios. :(. SD was very calm and attentive; she said she doesn't understand why her mom would oppose it, and she also said that she wants us to go places and do things together, as a family (it felt very heartwarming and wholesome).
2. We scheduled a meeting with a family therapist. We'll present the entire history and ask for advice on how to proceed from a legal POW and mostly, to understand what risks are for SD - emotionally and such.
3. We decided this was the last straw with BM. We did tiptoe hoping that given enough time/money/resources/understanding, she'll improve her perspectives. That is not going to happen. It's saddening, but also a relief. Now we know this is what we are and we will be dealing with.
So at long last, we won't be pushovers (we hope)! :D We bought the damn tickets and we'll go on that trip, because SD deserves to be happy and we needn't keep our head down for someone else's delusions.
4. We will not ask for permission anymore. We have been trying to appease a tantrum throwing BM, and it amounted to nothing.
It's strangely liberating and scary (because it might mean the sh*t storms are only beginning); but mostly liberating!
Thank you guys! We felt heard and for once, not alone in this crazy situation. Seeing you've gone through it, gives us hope!
I'll let you know how this all blows over!
Thank you again!
sent you a PM
sent you a PM
"Borderline Tendencies"
She sounds like she may have "borderline tendencies". Does she exhibit any other risk taking behaviors?
I echo the comments above about parallel parenting. Maybe even contact a lawyer to modify the parenting plan in a way that spells everything out to the extent that minimal discussion is needed.
DH and I are now working with a lawyer - due to BM's threats to bring her "concerns" "to the attention of the courts". Her concerns literally include, "prompt response to my emails" and "don't communicate with me through the kids." Um, she rarely emails DH and when she does, it's just with some demand. The latest was that she told us that SS wanted to come to our house for Halloween (we hadn't asked and they don't split Halloween). Then she kept sending DH texts demanding to know when he was going to pick up and drop off SS. Um, lady, you told us he was coming why don't you a) bring him to our house; b) tell us when he should be home. Also, DH tries to avoid communicating with her at all, so he certainly doesn't communicate through the kids. I regularly hear "mom says we have to be home by X..." or "mom says you can't make us choose between doing X or Y" (even if X or Y are happening on DH's weekend).
The big kicker was that she would also like the reduce the amount of time that one SS spends with DH...for no reason other than SS would rather hang out with his friends and DH told him that it was not ok that SS had an F in math and SS thought that was mean.
My one goal with the lawyer is that we are able to remove all influence of her from our lives (which we can do because DH has an Innocent Spouse Ruling from the IRS for tax debt BM incurred and BM doesn't want anyone to know about that...if she insists on mediation, those documents will all be available through public case search).
I feel like DH and I have an obligation to show SSs what a stable adult relationship looks like, because BM is such a sh&t show. Not only does she treat DH like crap over every.little.thing, but she's now "remarried" (not legally married, maybe due to the tax debt, maybe just because BM wanted to try to stay on DH's health insurance) to a con artist (someone who sells get rich quick schemes on the internet). He told BM that his ex wife is a meth addict, but I don't think she really is. Either way, I'm sure SSs' primary household is crazytown and they both show signs of anxiety (one is a regular bed-wetter and the other has regular crying, screaming, running off to hid meltdowns - even though they are both in middle school).
As difficult as it is for me to put up with all the BS, I just try to remind myself that if DH and I work on our relationship, we can show his children that not all relationships have to be crazy power struggles, where someone is always screaming at the other person. Maybe that will save them from ending up with someone like their mother!