Update on my resignation to plans
So, I have tried to have some discussions about my concerns.. and some of it went ok.. some of it has been frustrating.
The frustration... Like we always hear when we push back.. "you hate my kid and grandkids".. yep.. he has said it.. and it's frustrating because he knows that I spent years helping him raise his kids.. financially, effort.. time... considering their needs on par with our own.. and making sacrifices through the years.. as a direct result of their existence.
That I am putting him in a bad sitation.. because "it's sad" if he can't put one of his family members on a "small part" of his property when they have few other options.. that are viable.
This of course ignores the opposite in that I have been put in a bad situation making me the bad guy if I say no.. making me the bad guy for keeping her stuck where she is when she can't afford anything else.. making me the bad guy because "he will just tell his daughter to keep the boys away from us if they see my car on our land" because I am the one who appears to be the one who stands in the way of this being a great option.
and.. yeah.. I get that there are not a lot of great options.. I get that she has few resources.. because she has been pregnant and took a basic govt job and that in our area, there are not many better jobs she could have taken anyway. I understand that it is just a small piece they would be building on.. but still have worries that she would want to pawn off the kids to get a break when we went over there to hang out (which we do a lot) And I get that it shouldn't be my/our issue to fix.. but I started down the road of being "ok" with it.. but over the weekend.. started to realize that it might end up being more of an issue for us than I thought... for a variety of reasons..
And.. it's not that I don't think we could work out things.. but It's frustrating when th initial reaction is always "you hate my kid".. when I did not cause this for her.. and am just trying to figure out how we can salvage things without it being a total disaster for everyone.. and isn't it better to talk about things now.. before things are in stone?
again.. not saying "no".. I just want my concerns heard..
and.. yeah.. I understand when people say.. "don't do it".. but this is the reality meets the road kind of thing... the fallout of taking a stand can really damage relationships.. and even the discussions I am trying to have are hurting mine at the moment..
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Oh no!
I guess even with the good DH's. which yours seem to be, they do resort to guilt tripping when need be.
Yea you are the bad guy. Yea you hate my kids. You are the SM blocking your DH from being the savior for SD.
I have no bios. Yet I totally get how he would want to help her out. Yet here you are in a blended family, the good SM who helped raising the skids, but when questioning a MAJOR decision you become an evil SM.
The dang double standards for the SM. SM's are constantly reminded they arent a bio, so act accordingly. BUT when you do, well then YOU HATE MY KIDS. Danged if you do, danged if you dont. Yet if this was an intact clan and the BM said no to having kids move on the property she has her reasons, and it aint hate towards the kids...throw in SM and all of a sudden you wear the witches hat.
Esmod i hope this works out smoothly, well as smooth as it can.
Correct, to me, "you just
Correct, to me, "you just hate my kids" is a slap in the face and a reminder that they are not your kids. My own bio-mom was the one who said that myself and my kids could not live with them long-term after my divorce. My dad probably would have let us stay forever. At the time, i was upset with my mom but now i see that i am a better parent for not being enabled by them. I can't imagine the hurt my mom would have felt if my dad had said "you just hate them, you aren't their real mom."
Bio-parents can make these tough decisions without this bullshit. Bio-parents enact tough love and put up boundaries all the time without being reminded they are "less than." Fking bullshit ESMOD. I'm sorry that you of all people (you are kinder to skids than most) have to deal with this.
"You hate my kids" is a
"You hate my kids" is a manipulation tactic. It's meant to immediately villainize you and shut you down. Now you're defending yourself from the accusation instead of addressing the real issue: your needs, feelings and boundaries.
YES!
Its whipping the SM back into shape by focusing on YOU HATE MY KIDS. If the DH is succesful at this tactic the SM feels awful and then backtracks on her decision. BTDT until I figured it out.
Except Esmod is a smart lady.
I'm smart.. but even smart
I'm smart.. but even smart people have to weigh the issues... what I'm hoping for at this point is that at least he has heard.. my concerns and may be at least more likely to try to ensure they aren't ignored.. like the issue of a liability policy for us so that her stbx doesn't try to sue us if the kids get hurt on our land.. or that we do some thinking about what she can and cannot do with the house if she wants to move etc..
My mom did the same
My mom found me a daycare and a place to rent. Lol. Think she was sick if my chaos?
Yes.. my dH is generally a
Yes.. my dH is generally a good guy.. and that, of course, feeds into why we are in this situation.. because of course he wants to help his child.. and "of course" I want to be a supportive partner.. and when it started out.. we were supposed to be buying a piece of property that adjoined ours.. and was more out of the way from us.. and would have been a discrete and separate piece of property.. and it was money that I volunteered us to pay.. mostly from money that I got as a work bonus this spring!
The big FU was that we ended up buying something that won't suit the purpose.. it is unlikely to pass for a conventional septic and would require extensive lot clearing (in otherwords very expensive). I know that's what happens when you rush.. and honestly.. the idea to put her on our lot was something we both came up with.. kind of on the heels of that rushed lot purchase.. which now won't work because we don't have the money to make the lot work .
So.. yeah.. it was my own stupidity for being so initially generous in thinking about things.. and so now my reluctance.. after money has been put down (though it was our money again.. so it's not like she is out)... is being seen as ripping the rug out on plans that have been made.. and aren't I being all selfsish to not want her to do this.
I have tried to suggest a few other alternatives.. I even suggested that we move into a camper we own on our property.. and let her move into the house we are living in next to his parents.. that we pay a modest rent for.. but we have a ton of stuff in the house.. so it would be a pain and inconvenient to move it all.. and then we would be living in a quite small camper.. without a real septic so that would be something we had to add in... AND.. he said the house we live in would not be "safe" for them.. mostly because of an issue with an old basement that has a lot of water issues and has a sump pump that could be a shock hazard and he is worried about the two boys.
The house is also not in optimal shape.. could use some paint and it is very dated.. no central air.. no diswasher.. old as dirt appliances.
We do live there.. but have not wanted to spend a lot of money on upgrades because his parents could get in a situation of having to sell it.. so we basically don't want to spend mone and effort beyond basic livability on a place that he is supposed to inherit.. but the reality is the way his mom talks sometimes.. who knows if it might get sold out from under us.. so we just live with the status quo.
But.. yeah.. it's good enough for us.. but not good enough for her.. does irritate me a bit. and yes.. it frustrates me that someone else will get to enjoy a piece of property that we/I have spent a LOT of money on buying.. and they did nothing to help us.. never have.. and I'm sure never will.
and... yes.. by the way it is Tuesday and I don't hear anything from her on giving us a check for the money we put down on the house on Saturday when she forgot her check book.. and just thought she could put it on a credit card (naive? stupid? cunning? who knows).
but.. yeah.. he is upset that I agreed then now seem like I'm trying to back out.
I even asked if he thought we would be better off waiting to see if/what settlement she gets from her house from her STBX.. like maybe it would be enough to let her get her own piece of property.. but again.. bringing up options is interpreted as I am against it.
Which I am.. but come on people.. If someone would asl you "hey.. do you want to let someone live on our land.. and have kids around all the time.. or would you prefer they were somewhere else?".. duh.. the 2nd is the preference obviously right.. who wants to have to deal with extra people and the complications?
That doesn't mean that it won't happen.. but that if there were another reasonable option.. you would prefer it..
But in steplife.. even in the best of situations.. and normally.. mine is not all that bad.. there is the basic fact that these people are not totally your family.. but you have to tolerate some things for the sake of your relationship. and you will be the odd man out when it comes to these kinds of situations.
And.. of course I get that he wants to help his daughter out of a bad situation.. despite the fact that some of this is really her fault.. and despite the fact that he will agree that her attitude about things is crap.. and that she holds blame too... he still wants to help his child.. and yes.. it is just a small part of a big piece of land.. but it confers a lot of permission to use the larger part of our land.. and that means my ability to enjoy it will be diminished.. and in the end.. she ain't my kid.. and that isn't fair.
So he didn't like boundaries
So he didn't like boundaries being put in place to protect YOUR investment?
my smart a$$ mouth might have come out play, "I don't like your kids? You must not like my money".
I did point out to him that
I did point out to him that she showed up to "buy" her house without a check.. and he has excuses for her... of course.
I mean.. she is not smart.. she just took herself and her family on a nice cruise about a month ago.. and it's not a surprise given the fact that my dad had gifted her 5K in january.. and this is the 3rd year he has done so.. so instead of saving her money for this "inevitable" divorce.. she has blown it.. mostly on stupid stuff like her cruises and disney vacations.
And her dad admits she probably blew it on stupid stuff.. but he still feels a strong need to help her.. because she is in a tough spot.
and he would help me too.. in any way he could.. or his parents.. or my dad.. etc.. because that is the way he is.
The Big SM Divide
Its like the continental divide, but emotional.
Its the cold hard fact that SD is NOT your child, and you dont have the bio goggles on like your DH. Even if she WERE your bio, you dont want to be roped into child care. Its not even that you "dont like" the grands, you simply want a stress-free life and kids are stressful.
Perhaps try emphasing the aspect of just wanting peace and quiet, and child-free zone time. Idk.
I too have heard the whole "you just dont like my kid" to which I reply "no I LOVE your kid, Ive done all I can to show that love and yet, shes not MY kid and I have no input or influence where she is concerned so get off that 'you just dont like my kid' track"
That typically shuts that down.
But yeah it sounds like the situation is already stress-filled.
Going thru something similar today
Long story, but I'm not jumping in to do something beneficial for SD61 today so DH is angry, has mounted a spirited defense of her character and is generally being an obstinate person who won't listen to reason.
SD's had a contentious relationship with her daughter, M, for years. I've tried to keep in contact with M in a one-on-one manner without getting dragged into it all. M is proposing a meeting so we can see her kids but DH is adamantly pushing for me to include SD, otherwise won't go. Steplife....
So go without him. M is now
So go without him. M is now a mother and she gets to decide who her child interacts with. It's not up to you but M.
He will cool down by then
Yes, that's the point, it's M's decision and she's an educated, rational, protective mother who limits her own and her kid's exposure to toxicity. He is used to bossing every one around and just doesn't want to understand SD's effect on others. I will go alone if I have to but he will probably come around.
Well we know
its now more than bio goggles, but that sucks. Good you are standing your ground!
You are going to live
If SD moves onto your property, you know it's going to be he*l. She will be borrowing everything never to see it again. Always short of money. Her car will need repairs, As you will be a living ..ATM ..babysitter,.cook. Ect
Better having a mad DH and a SD living far away DH will either get over with it. Or go living with SD,, not
Balancing common sense with feelings
You're like me, ESMOD, trying to balance reality and feelings. Reality vs. emotion. Sigh...steplife....
In the end.. I have to listen
In the end.. I have to listen to advice I give others.. and that is that while it might not be "right" or "fair".. sometimes the reality is that being married to someone with kids.. means they will need to help their kid and there is only so much road blocking we can do without being viewed as "anti".
so.. I have gotten some good ideas regarding getting her to sign a land lease.. and also get some liablility insurance.. which is something we should have on our land anyway..
but... I will likely have to just suck it up.. because.. well.. the alternative is to be at war constantly with my DH.. and that's not how I want to live.
I hear you
That's what I end up doing, too.
I totally understand your frustration and
being hesitant on the issue. I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. While you are allowing her to use the land for free, would it be possible to have a legal lease drawn up? If she has to pay money for that to happen, then charge her a dollar or some really low amount? Then like a landlord, revisit it every year? Sounds like it already went rocky, but I would be concerned down the line what could happen if there is no paperwork at all on the agreeement.
It is not fair your DH is reacting that way to your concerns and doing the easy you hate my kids act. Living near DC is EXPENSIVE. DH and I lived there for 4 years and it is just getting even more expensive. Your SD should say thank you and be grateful. My neighbors up the way had their two in their 20's sons move back home recently. One because of a break up and another because he was living with a couple. They can't afford where we are to buy a home and rent prices are CRAZY right now. They just bought them a trailer even though they hate to give away some of their 5 acres for it to try and help them out.
You hate my kids?
Oh, for goodness sake DH, this is a business transaction not a birthday gift - treat it as such. Yes, she is his daughter BUT that doesn't mean that accountability is thrown out the window. Keep it all business-like and absolutely legal, it protects everyone.
My DH might not always like
My DH might not always like it, but he does rely on me to be the rational one. He would love another chance to "rescue" one of this kids, but fortunately they are both productive and stable at the moment. And if he could fly into rescue mode I would be the one to figure out how to set limits, think of things like liability and an exit plan. Which would no doubt lead to the "you just hate my kid" comment.
I don't hate his kids, but I do hate how he uses them for his own ego boost. And that's what I'd call out here. I've always been glad to help his kids and mine, within reason and as long as they are doing everything they can to help themselves. It's when we're taken advantage of that I all of a sudden "hate his kids."
It is a balance, helping out a family member, any family member, can be a challenge.
This is already turning into
This is already turning into a clusterF, ESMOD. You would be far better off helping her with the rent of an apartment.
THIS 100%
Its already going south before its even started.
Esmod this will be the first of many YOU HATE MY KIDS moments. You will end up as Esmod daycare. Free rent, cause SD just doesnt plan financialy well, how can we toss her and the grandkiddos out? Wait til SD says BM has a right to visit there. Even though your DH doesnt want her there he will be worked on. I mean doesnt grandmama have the right to visit her DD and grandspawns?
So many future moments to come. Id be stocking up the booze cabinet ;)
Seriously, lets hope that doesnt happen.
Blessings
How great can a relationship
How great can a relationship be if he jumps to "you hate my kid" without discussing your concerns?
I think you have to take
I think you have to take relationships in balance and look at the pattern of behavior over time. We have been together 20 years this summer. I actually don't know that I can remember a time before when he has said anything that similar.. to this. And.. we have had conflicts over his kids (rarely.. but everyone does in normal real life).. and that hasn't been his go to.
And.. to be fair.. while it's not "hate".. I do not LIKE hanging out with kids.. and avoid it like the plague.. and I do not LIKE his daughter's crappy attitude about things.. and in fact even HE will say his daughter can be a "btch" and that her viewpoints are messed up.. using guys for example. So where is the line between not liking someone's actions.. or thoughts.. and not liking THEM? It can be close..I think.. and it can be difficult to see where someone is truly coming from I guess. And.. yeah.. parents will defend their kids even when they know they are flawed.
I think he went "there" because he truly sees no other options for her.. and that he hates seeing her in a situation that is so toxic that it is making her crazy (though I think he is overlooking other things in the past with her freak outs.. that were prior to her wedding.. and not related to this guy)..
And.. people can say things when they are angry that they don't really mean.. or when they feel backed in a corner.. and admitedly.. I should have spoken up sooner probably.. and I have been clear here that I much prefer her younger sister.. so I'm sure he knows she is not totally my fave person.
Currently he is in "kissing butt" mode with me.. and he is saying the right things about an agreement.. and about ensuring we have our own privacy respected.. which is my biggest concern really.
Food for thought
Ok, so "you just hate my kids!" is often thrown out as an accusation against the "hater." I wonder why that is? A person can't help how they feel. Maybe the bio-parents, due to their dysfunction, raised them to be repulsive little a-holes? Maybe, despite that fact and despite years of abuse, the stepparent manages to treat said kids politely and fairly because they love their spouse in spite of their flaws. Where's the medal for that?
I know.. you hate my kids..
I know.. you hate my kids.. well.. why didn't you raise them to be people that would be more likable? I mean.. I DON'T hate them.. but I don't have much in common with OSD.. and certainly not her kids when I don't like little kids in general. I mean.. I have only even seen my own nephew who is 9 about 5 times in his whole life.. they live a couple hours from us.. but obv I have not made a huge effort.. because kids are not my thing.. I never had them biologically.. so I just somehow made it through my SKid's younger years.. lol.
I think the unwritten message when they say that is that if you hate them.. you hate a part of them.. and even if they don't have total rose colored glasses for their kids.. they are still their kids.. and in a tough spot they want to help.
The good thing is I don't think that my OSD wants us to hang out with her any more than I want to see them...lol.. she actually mentioned that to her younger sister who relayed that to me.. I was like.. "she has nothing to worry about from me.. I definitely want my space and will give her her own too."
Again.. my concern was a bit more that every time we wanted to go there.. she and her kids would be "in the way" and someone I would have to deal with.. when honestly.. when I come home from work.. I really hardly want to interact with anyone! My husband said he would tell her they needed to stay in their lane pretty much when we are there so there aren't issues. We will see how it goes.
DW never accused me of hating SS.
Her go do snap back when she was frustrated was "What exactly do you want me to do about it?" To which I would often reply "I don't really care other than that the problem is resolved. Beyond that, figure it out. How can I help?"
We did have occassional battles over SpermClan toxicity, SS teen boy brain farts, and occassional disagreements about life.
But.. we figured it out. Hopefully, we continue to figure it out.
As for the medal for that, the medal is living our best lives in spite of the SO's toxic failed family baggage. SS lived that parenting example being raised by his mom and I. He is thriving in his own adult life. He sees how very different his REAL family is in comparision to his toxic PASing opposition family.
Though it is heartbreaking that our son has had to see it, they know they lost, we won, and most importantly he won. His three half sibs are crashing and burning in their adult lives while SS is thriving and is a man of honor, character and standing in his profesion and his community. His mom and I are proud of him and proud of the man we raised together in spite of ... them.
When it all comes down to it,
When it all comes down to it, their main concern is to support their children through WHATEVER (i truly mean wtv) they are going through and provide for their safety and financial needs throughout their entire lives. Even afterwards in death....
To be fair... I think pretty
To be fair... I think pretty much all parents have a desire to want their kids to have good lives and to help them in times of need..and hopefuly be able to leave them some legacy when they pass. I don't think it's their "main concern".. but it is definitely an important one.. I would say that in most cases a spouse would hope to take care of their partner.and.. their parents as well to the best that they possibly could.
I really don't fault my husband for wanting to help her.. I just do wish we had the means to do it in a place a bit more separate from us... where we also plan to be in the near future with a retirement home. But the reality is that this is about all we can "afford" to do to help her...let her use a small portion of our land.. in a corner further from where we plan to build.
Hey E.
I commented on your old forum topic from a few years ago, don't know if you saw it or if it got buried. I'm curious how that situation played out?
SD did end up moving in.. she
SD did end up moving in.. she agreed to not have her mother come to the house at least not for overnights etc.. and mama did not, in fact, end up spending any significant time there that we know about.
We instituted a two level rent.. if it was just her.. the lower.. if she moved in a BF. she would pay more.. and when her BF moved in.. they did pay us the higher rent.
Of course.. getting what you want.. you realize it might not be all you want.. lol. That BF ended up being not at all what she wanted in life.. to travel.. to do interesting things.. he wanted to play Xbox.. eat chicken nuggets and start a family ASAP. She eventually realized he was not the right guy.. and he left.. of course after trying to stick her with his DirectV bill..lol.
But in the end.. she did a fairly decent job of keeping the house in one piece.. We didn't get complaints from police or neighbors.. so she must have not been doing too much bad stuff. She lived there about 2.5 3 years... and after a failed attempt to rent it to someone after her.. (non-related).. we decided to sell it.. and more than doubled our money..
I will say that my relationship with her has gotten much better and part of it is distance from the time I had to be her warden when she was doing online schoolwork.. lol. There is a point where if all you are doing is "riding their butts".. that a lot of two way resentment can get drummed up.
This was my YSD.. (not the older one).. and she is now married, working a good job and getting ready to buy their own first home.
I think the frustration of being a stepparent can come up with our spouses wanting to do things for their kids.. when they don't 100% get that the kids are not OUR kids.. and that we may be less interested in being as generous.. lol.
I guess the good thing is that I can at least talk about these things.. and push past some of the "hate my kid" stuff.. that I can get where it comes from.. but is frustrating nonetheless!
The two tier rent thing is brilliant.
MSD rented her moms place at a reduced rate, moved a bf in and continued to rent at reduced rate. Tensions and threat of lawsuit between mom and daughter occurred, msd moved out of state and we found out she was economical with the truth regarding that situation. Same bm texted DH just this week insisting he provide not only housing but a job as well for same daughter smh. DH has finally blocked bm. The "kids" are all mid thirties to late forties. I have grown kids as well, I don't expect my DH to have much relationship with them, some of them he does some he doesn't, the bigger issue for me is the enmeshment and triangulation his have. I just don't relate to it. I feel occasionally pushed to have a relationship that isn't there, that ship sailed years ago. There are times I've thought or even tried to have a conversation with DH about "if my kids treated me this way or did xyz" but really I can't even imagine mine doing half the entitled crap his do so I can only imagine what you go through. My own youngest (20) is moving out soon and I'm looking forward to removing that excuse of providing housing for my son for DH helping his almost middle aged kids. It's always something though. DH even tells me "I wish my kids were as drama free as yours are" since one or the other of his seems to always be in "crisis"
I don't have any bios.. so in
I don't have any bios.. so in some way.. while I get that my DH wants to help his kids.. and I would probably want to help my own bios if I had them.. I am a little sensitive to him "offering on my behalf".. or striking deals potentially without me getting to have a private discussion with him.. BEFORE the skids would get the offer (so it is less likely to appear that it is ME that is holding things back.. aka bad guy).
Both situations with the girls are not unreasonable ways he wants to hellp.. though the fact that I have generally been the more consistent wage earner between the two of us.. kind of makes me feel he should be sure I am on board. ... and to be honest.. I gave the impression I WAS more onboard with the OSD putting a place on our land.. just the mechanics of it.. and how things will go make me nervous... just a bit.
Because.. the reality is that I know and accept that she isn't my daughter.. and that too much togetherness.. with someone with small kids would not be an improvement for me.. lol.
I have since heard that one of her concerns is that WE would want to hang out.. and I did tell YSD that she could tell her sister to not worry.. that will not be an issue.. lol.
My tolerance for small children.
Decreases the older I get. Hahaha even my own grandkids I have to take in small doses!! I also didn't raise my kids in a child centric household, we ranched part time and that in itself is a whole different ballgame. Some of my kids are much more child centric and I have to bite my tongue a lot when in their homes but my home my rules still stands lol
My thoughts on how to respond.
I do not hate your kid our your GK.
I do not like their behaviors, I do not like how they manipulate you and how you allow them to manipulate us. I do not like how for countless years you have ignored, facilitated, and enabled their continued abuse of you, me, and our marriage. I do not like how you tolerate and welcome them continuing to do so. No, they cannot live on OUR property. OUR marital resources will no longer be wasted to mitigate your daughter's continued poor decisions. I will no longer allow that to happen. You have to grow some testicular fortitude, open your eyes, and stop sacrificing yourself and us to be her continued victims. Reality is that she is the victim of her own choices, she needs to own her own choices, and she needs to navigate her own life instead of putting the recovery from her failures on us.
While I understand why you would say this "the fallout of taking a stand can really damage relationships". I think that it missrepresents the causal factor of the situation. HE is the one damaging the relationship because of his historical and on going avoidance of finding his balls and owning that his kid is a serial victim in her own life.
That... is not his problem and for damned sure it is not your problem. HE needs to pull his head out or HE will find himself without his amazing partner at his side.
Take care of you ESMOD.