Time for Money
SD17 finally contacted DH through text yesterday. This is the first time since Christmas, other than she surprisingly texted him happy birthday last week (but did not respond to anything before or after that) Apparently yesterday she texted the hi, how are you, then they chit chatted a little....and then she asked for money for a yearbook. This has become so predictable that even DH sees it, she plays nice when she wants something, as if nothing ever happened.
SD is graduating this year, and I expected her to turn up with money needs eventually. DH said he would send the yearbook money with his next child support payment. Although this makes me roll my eyes, I am not going to give him a hard time. It is already rough for him as he wants to feel proud and celebrate, but he is being treated like less than crud, like he was an absent and neglectful father or something and has no right to be a part of her life anymore. Unless something is in it for her.
I am curious though on thoughts for how to handle money requests from a child who only seems to act decent towards her father when she wants something? It is hard to figure out the balance of doing right in supporting your child and not feeling like a complete doormat. It feels like if he doesn't contribute, that will fuel her fire and create more divide, and if he does and goes on like everything is fine, it's just solidifying the pattern.
Hmmm....
I understand your concern but I will say there are a lot of extra expenses around graduation, ie, yearbook, pictures, class ring, announcements, cap and gown rental, prom expensrs, etc. Just acting as devil's advocate here. I am assuming the CS is a sane amount and covers food, shelter and medical expense. These expenses would seem to fall into a special category. Our SKs lived with us so we paid for everything but if they had been with BM, I could see us ponying up extra. Does your CO spell it out?
Is your DH paying court
Is your DH paying court ordered CS? If so, then he is contributing to SD17 every single month. This was a hard lesson for DH and I to face because we felt like we had to provide money for extras to "support the child" on top of CS. Then BM began asking for even more money for even more extras and it was just a never ending cycle.
In reality, that's bs and we learned that. If a child (well practically adult in your case) is only maintaining a mediocre relationship at best for financial gain, is that really something you and DH want to foster? Knowing she will drift in and out of your lives, only appearing when funds are running low? I wouldn't. That's not a genuine relationship.
Stop giving money for extras. Only pay the court ordered CS. If SD says that CS isn't enough to cover it, tell her to tell BM to do a better job budgeting. I'm sure you will find that SD runs for the hills, exposing her true colors and making herself out as nothing more than the gold digger she is to DH.
My DH stopped paying for extras after our attorney advised it. He told us that's what CS is for, to support the child. Why would you pay even more to support the child? We felt terrible initially. Then our lawyer made another good point, "Why throw more money at a BM who alienates your child from you? It is literally a reward for bad behavior." And our attorney is absolutely correct. DH does contribute to SS every month in the form of CS (a hefty amount I should add) regardless of what anyone says. And if someday, when SS is an adult, and if he maintains a positive relationship with DH and I that isn't filled with deception and manipulation, we may be inclined to help him more then.
Instead of sending more money
Instead of sending more money with next month's child support.... "You can take the money for your year book out of next month's child support. Tell your mom."
CS covers every bit of the NCP's financial obligation for the CP raising the NCP's kid unless otherwise stipulated in the CO. In the case of our CO, that included extracurricular costs, instruments for music class at school, Keep in mind that the CP is ostensibly responsible for half of the costs of raising the Skid. Have SD ask her mother for the year book money.
Yes THIS. People seem to
Yes THIS. People seem to forget that BM is also responsible for financially contributing to Skid. Every time BM asks for more $$, DH reminds himself that she is also responsible, so when she blows her money on a fancy trip or a new car, she expects DH to make up the difference to support SS as his "duty as the CS payor and father"... umm NO, live within your means.
Our BM used to ask for additional money for every little expense for SS, even asking for partial reimbursement for a $10 prescription. She asked for school fees, sports fees, money for school supplies, money for sport equipment, money for birthday party supplies, etc. She once asked DH to help her pay for a birthday party for SS that DH wasn't even invited to... and it was $700 which DH thought was absurd! When DH would say "No", she would freak out. THAT IS WHAT CS IS FOR.
Exactly.
I am surprised that this is not more frequently recommended in STalk.
As the CSP in our blended family adventure it may be surprising that I am supportive of NCP's planting their flag on "that is what CS is for" and not providing one penny beyond CS to the CP, unless otherwise stipulated in the CO.
In our case, we learned early that CS was the NCP's contribution for the support of my SKid beyond half of any medical expenses not covered by insurance.
Once the Judge made that clear, after we billed the SpermClan for half of the SKids Crumpet (Coronet), it took me a while but was finally able to get my bride on board the strategy that it was our responsibility to do everything possible to maximize what teh Spermidiot was on the hook for regarding CS. Once she got on board, 9 years after CS was raised from $110/mo to $133/mo, she drove squeezing blood out of that turnip. We never needed their money, but we wanted SS to have demonstrable proof that his mom was dedicated to his best interests and so he would never have to hear that the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool did not care enough about him to support him. We never gave them any choice though my DW's avoidance of pissing them off in the naive perspective that if she did not make them mad they wouldn't load SS up with their toxic bullshit.
The nature of the CP and NCP responsibilities are that one must drive the maximizing of support for the kid(s) while the other should step up and pay that maximum support. Reality is that the CP side is often money grubbing control freaks who fail to recognize thae they are responsible for a least half of the financial support for their children while the NCP side is often filled by deadbeat weasles who do everything in their power to avoid paying and avoid actually parenting.
"Let's meet and discuss the
"Let's meet and discuss the yearbook money, I'd love to see you." If she won't - no money.
So here's the thing - there
So here's the thing - there is no court ordered child support. I don't know why, other than when they split up, they agreed to an amount that DH would pay for each child. They had 50/50 custody, so the kids were with DH half the week. BM did not make a lot of money, and my understanding was the amount was meant to help her afford a decent place to live. Things like medical, sports, etc were usually split (although he didn't ask BM for money if he was the one taking them to the dr, etc), but DH does carry SD's medical insurance and her cell phone bill. I am pretty sure it is not what he would be court ordered to pay, although with 50/50 I don't know if that would have made it lower than what I think it would be. BM has never asked for more money, other than half of misc things over the years. Even after SD moved to her house full time. Although I did blog about how SD told DH he should lay her $40/mo for not living here and using our utilities.
So with that being said, typically we would be chipping in for all the graduation stuff, we would be offering without her even having to ask. Truly, if she were not being so hateful, I would be happy to pay for whatever. Part of what attracted me to DH was that we were both kid focused. We want the best for them, and will do whatever we can to support them. We weren't anticipating her having these feelings toward him and us, and it's really hard to figure out what to do with it. The way she feels about us is basically opposite of how we thought we were. It's not that we don't want to pay for things, it's more feeling like we are reinforcing the way she treats him.
I had initially thought he should have her meet up to get the money, but it was already done. He has gone that route before and either he pretends along with it, or he tries to talk seriously and it ends up in a fight. I have never been involved in any of that, I keep to the fringes. I think we all need to sit down and talk, probably with a counselor
I don't think your SD would
I don't think your SD would be the first teenager to see their parents as 'walking' ATM's and not be inclined to want to spend a lot of time with them otherwise. It's a natural time of growth and separation from family.. your peer group becomes more important.. your parental interactions.. often less so.
If their relationship is otherwise HOSTILE.. and she just comes around a few times a year sweet talk some money out of him? I think that is probably a line he can set where he can tell her that if they don't have a relationship as a child/parent in any tenuous way.. then she doesn't get the enjoy the "spoils" of being in a parent/child relationship.
But.. if it is more of a distancing.. not "making time" for her dad.. not being good at keeping up with him (two way street there. he should be regularly shooting her texts etc.. ).. I don't see it as some cheapening of his resolve to pay for a yearbook or some other minor item.
And.. the real bottom line is how does HE feel? Does he want to cut her off from these extras as punishment for not being a "nicer person to him"? Or is this something that bothers him to an extent.. but not to the point where he is willing to turn his back on these small connections with her?
I mean. it's all fine and good for you to push him to come to a conclusion.. but then you will likely bear blame for the state of their relationship. Unless the amount of money he shells out comes out of your pocket.. or significantly impacts your joint finances.. I think this is something best left to his full decision without much if any opinion or advice by a SP.
If he complains about it.. I would tell him that the best person to talk to about these feelings is his daughter.
I think he should contribute
I think he should contribute to these expenses. My concern with his answer is he is teaching SD that he is a wallet for her without any obligation from SD. I think Tog has the right idea. Let's meet up and discuss it.
I would be more concerned about the big expenses
Year book , ring, graduation thing .I would pay for.
But now you are looking at a car, insurance on that car. College and what that cost. $25,000 a year and more. Wedding
I would start to figure out those things
I would classify as hostile
I would classify as hostile rather than the normal teenage pulling away. The relationship has been a rollercoaster for the last 5-6 years. There are periods where things seem ok, and she is responding and engaging. Something inevitably seems to set her off, and she will scream and curse at DH and then stop responding for weeks. Usually the thing that brings her out if it is that she needs something or wants to be included in something. The relationship is on her terms, with this shadow of DH not having been a good father and has damaged her in some way. I really think she believes in the issues she brings up when she is angry, but she seems to only see the small slice that supports her feeling negative. I really feel like her BM feeds into it, and DH has pretty much laid down and just let everything happen.
I definitely don't want to influence DH's relationship with his kids, but I am also going to be honest about what I see. If I share an opinion I always try to say, you of course need to do what you feel is right, but here is what I am seeing from my perspective. I have gotten a lot better about taking a step back and not getting worked up about it (typing it out here helps a lot), but I also think we need to be able to talk about the situation because it's a pretty big one. I think paying for the school stuff is the right thing to do. However, if she calls next week wanting money to get her nails done, I am probably going to have to chew my tongue off if he tells me he's going with that
As a kid who paid for 90% of
As a kid who paid for 90% of my "extras" my senior year of high school, I don't see the need to pay for all this stuff for an ungrateful near-adult. She is old enough to work (though I understand that's rough right now). Her dad pays her cell phone, so it's not like she CAN'T talk to him. She is CHOOSING to be disengaged, and I think it's totally reasonable to honor that disengagement by disengaging, too.
I think the proper course of action would be to save up a gift for her when she graduates and be done with it. If she wants all the trimmings of a senior year, she can either work for them herself OR put in the effort to spend time connecting with her father.
Oh, and I didn't have to pay for my own extras because I was a bad kid. I just had parents who didn't have the extra cash but supported me very similarly through a cell phone and car insurance.