NYT Ethics Question: BM Laments Father's Lack of Contact w/Skids
Saw this article in the NYT "Ethics" column, about what a divorced parent ethically owes his (grown) children. What is most interesting is that it is the ex-wife (BM) asking the question.
The BM writes:
"Shortly after our divorce, my ex-husband remarried and never again had anything to do with our children. He told the children that they owed him “filial piety,” but apparently he felt he owed them nothing. That was 30 years ago. Over time the children, now adults, have reached out to their father with the help of therapists, but he refuses to have anything to do with them. I have sent letters to him as well but have received no response. He and I have a daughter-in-law and two teenage grandchildren he has never met.
I never remarried. I try to provide emotional and sometimes financial support for our children and grandchildren because I love them. Nothing I do, however, will heal the wounds of being cut off from their father. My question is this: The law says that parents must provide financial support for their children until age 18. But what are the ethical obligations of parents to their children after age 18? Doesn’t a father have an ethical obligation to provide something for the children he has brought into the world?"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/magazine/does-my-ex-owe-something-to-...
IMO I think this BM has a valid ethical question, but it is fueled by her own inability to let go of the relationship she HAD with this man. Based on the info, I think the skids in this case would at least be in their 40's by now.
I think it would be most enlightening to hear the father and stepmother's views on this issue.
IMHO what a parent owes an
IMHO what a parent owes an adult child is nearly completely dependent on the adult child's behavior. Taking this article on face value... I doubt strongly that adult children who have had no contact with their father in 30yrs really give a crap regarding anything about him. I would surmise that this is BM transposing her failure to move on onto her adult children. They likely do not consider themselves to be the victims that their mother thinks that they are.
This lady has sacrificed her life on the alter of the jilted X and IMHO has done her own children no favors by coddling and making them her sole life's priority.
Sad. Not only for the kids but for the subject of this article.
IMHO of course.
^^^ Pretty much what I think.
^^^ Pretty much what I think.
Lotta clues in there about her martyr complex including the fact of the letter itself. Writing to the NYT to throw shade on someone you haven't seen for 30 years is a pretty extreme attention grab. And this in behalf of "kids" who are at the very least now bumping up against middle age? Uh, can you spell o-b-s-e-s-s-i-o-n?
I agree. Sure, she is
I agree. Sure, she is regretting the father she chose for her kids...but living well is the best revenge. She needs to live well and set that example for her children and GKs.
Stepaside, I feel it
Stepaside, I feel it important to comment on this.
Passing on information to a place that is in the information business is not unusual or suspect in anyway. Reporters professionally evaluate information for credibility and relevance. That is their job. It is critical to the functioning of a free society. That is why our forefathers thought so highly of it they protected it in our foundational documents.
The fact that Comey may have had his own agenda in feeding the info to the NYT does not render the info untrue. He did write a memo. That memo exists. Ergo the publication of its existence is true, not untrue.
Directing anger at Comey for his actions I have no quarrel with. But a reporter who can substantiate that a document with big implications for our country exists has done nothing but a service to the country and has perfectly executed his function as a reporter.
If you want to picture how a country looks when there is no free press spend your next vacation in North Korea. That's how important a free press is.
I hope you can reconsider your feeling that the press itself somehow lacks credibility when politics get heated. Reporters are there to serve the cause of sunlight, which gives us all a chance to keep democracy alive.
Just to be clear on your
Just to be clear on your objection, it is your desire that NYT should have refused to publish the existence of the memo story because a person with whom they had no dealings directly on the story may have had an agenda?*
A huge proportion, if not all, of public speech/communication is an attempt to persuade=agenda. When Bill Cosby's reps do a press conference, they are attempting to persuade of his innocence. When Gloria Allred holds a press conference with accusers surrounding her, it is an attempt to persuade of his guilt. The NYT and all other media on the story report both of these. By the criterion of rejecting info that is attached to an agenda, they should report neither?
The vast majority of reporters don't make that much money but pursue the flow of information and storytelling from passion, much the way actors do for their profession. Hopefully, the paper or station they work for is making money although that model is changing for many. But they tend to be in the business they are in because at heart they have that same passion the peanut butter and ramen reporter at the Centerville Bugle has.
All humans have some kind of bias so it is not possible for each newspaper to have no bias, but please remember each newspaper is made up of a thousand different reporters with a thousand different biases all contributing every day. Opinion pages are specifically for the exploration of overt opinion and most newspapers try to have some differences in voices, at least to a degree. But it's true some of our major outlets tend to either right or left. NYT is a bit left. Balanced by National Review which is unabashedly Right. Marketplace of ideas.
But the thing is the readers/viewers are included in this. They have their biases, too. So they can reject info not because it isn't true but because it does not fit into their world view. Which is exactly why it's wise to survey lots of sources to make sure the info you are consuming has tested through many filters and is reliable.
I would continue to urge you to reconsider that simply publishing the fact of the existence of the memo does not make the NYT not credible. What they reported was true. Therefore, believable. Truth, as they say, is always a defense.
*NYT could not have known about Comey's agenda because they did not get the story from him. Once he testified he was the arm's-length source of the story and his purpose was to trigger a Special Prosecutor that agenda was reported by NYT and by every other media outlet in the known universe.
All very clear and valid
All very clear and valid possibilities SA.
Thanks for your clear wisdom.
As usual.
My own mother and I rarely
My own mother and I rarely speak because as she says, "You look just like your father" and it's painful for her to talk to me. My father left when I was 3 and went back to one of his other baby mommas. I reunited with my father when I was 16 and the first thing I heard was "You look just like your mother," and not said in pleasant tone.
For both of them I was just an annoying reminder of their failed relationship. So yeah, fathers do abandon their children just because and mothers do too. My childrens father won't call or Skype them for months at a time, my 14 yr old DS is usually the one who has to initiate contact. Some people are not cut out for parenting and don't have the skills to keep relationships going.
I do think it's sad when dads
I do think it's sad when dads don't have anything to do with their kids...and when moms don't...but this letter confuses me. It sounds like he did CS for these kids until 18... And now she's questioning what else he "owes" the now adult children... She also makes a big deal of the fact that 1.) She didn't go for spousal support even though he was a bigwig at a Fortune 500 company, 2.) SHE never remarried, and 3.) She still supports the kids emotionally AND financially "because she loves them" -- HMMMMMM.
It sounds like she's asking for his presence in their life but underneath there's a definite current of "He owes them/us more $$$!" Maybe ex got tired of being treated like an ATM and walked away. I know my DH gets tired of it, though he'd never walk away from his kids. He does mention that they usually call/come by when they want something...
Anyway. You know what I think is almost as sad as a parent who walks away from the kids? A martyr parent who never does anything with his/her life other than cater to the offspring. To me, that's just an excuse to not do the hard work of living your own life...and it's not doing the kids any favors. We definitely have this situation with our BM.
I lost my dad when he was just 49...after a prolonged illness that nearly bankrupted the family. I know my mom worried/worries about us kids and feels guilty about our childhoods...me and my 5 siblings. But we're all doing really well. You know when I like my mom the best? And all my siblings would agree with this. It's not when she's hovering, worrying...working multiple jobs because she still feels some strange obligation to make it all up to us...it's when she's taking care if herself. Like when she inherited a bit of cash and decided to spend part of it going to France for the summer with her sister...or when she joins a monthly card club that has nothing to do with us kids. That's when I feel whole again and the most like my life is headed in the right direction and everything will be OK...not when she's hovering around asking if there's anything she can do for me.
Hot Chocolate out my nose.
Hot Chocolate out my nose.
LADY FACE bahhhhhh So you
LADY FACE bahhhhhh
So you have received that letter too?
You forgot, dad is just not a dick he is a "D-bag" too.
Oh we've gotten these "it's
Oh we've gotten these "it's your obligation to your CHILDREN,!!!" emails before. Of course, it was always something she unilaterally decided the kid "needed" and unilaterally incurred the expense for...then came to us with her hand out.
Does get old.
Where is the rest of this
Where is the rest of this story.
Mom forgot to mention, "During the divorce I insisted the court remain fair, I did everything in my power to insure my x had equal access to our 'childreeeen'. I would not allow an unbalance, lopsided child support order. In spite of my own feelings towards their dads new life I did not transfer my emotions to our kids. I gave our children the freedom to love us both"
MOM had the platform to do it. Yet, she remained silent other than we tried to make contact through counselors. WEAK and typical bull.
My question would be at what age did you 'try' to engage dad. Age 16, 19, 23? What about the first few years of the divorce. Highly unlikely.
I see this letter as a continuation to play her role as all wonderful MOM who loves her kids more than dad ever could. There is no doubt in my mind that once this poor man dies, MOM will be there in court once again fighting and contesting a dead mans will for what she believes her charming kids deserve because THAT is what a gold star mom does.
Parents that are treated like junk by their kids have no more of an ethical obligation then do/did the kids for being decent to their parents. I HOLD custodial 100percent responsible for the mess they puppeteered and conducted all by themselves.
jmo
There are Fathers who take
There are Fathers who take their jobs seriously and those who don't. My ex was one of the latter. I had to take him to court three times to get half of the money he owed for CS. The other half went to the lawyers. It appears the Father in the article supported them financially until they were 18 so it appears the BM is complaining because the Father didn't give them moral support. This happens in families where there is no divorce. If the Father had stayed in the marriage his relationship with his children would have probably been the same. But I'll bet the BM would still be whining about how emotionally available her Husband is.
As TwoOfUs pointed out about the 'martyr parent', "who never does anything with his/her life other than cater to the offspring", this is an excuse to have a lasting pity party at expense of everyone else, and a means for control over them. If her kids failed to emerge as responsible, mature adults it is equally her fault for the representation of adulthood she is portraying. The best revenge and the most constructive thing BM could have had was to make a success of her life, despite set-backs, and create a positive example to her kids to follow.
There is not enough
There is not enough information to form an accurate opinion. **shrugs shoulders** There might be some cultural things at play due to the "filial piety" reference.
But this is something I do know about me. My parents did not owe me anything as an adult and I do not owe them anything as an adult. God rest their souls.
I lost any love I remotely felt for them when I was 22. Long ugly story.
People have to understand there are consequences for their actions and/or in-action. I feel no obligation to anyone that chooses to treat me badly. the end.
Good point. When I was
Good point. When I was growing up my parents provided minimal food and clothing, and a roof over my head - that was it. I was kicked out of the house at 18, so they didn't think they owed me anything. But I sure owed them - big time - and still do with my Mother who is much like the BM in the article. To hear it from my Mother she was a saint who gave and gave and gave but don't ask for specifics. I wonder what the BM's adult children think of her and I wonder if they share her view of herself. Like you, I feel no obligation to people who have treated me badly so I have disengaged from people who treat me badly.
"there are consequences for
"there are consequences for their actions and/or in-action."
Yup. People tend to wisen up and move on without them. I spent decades trying to earn the affection of parents who abandoned me. My father is dead and my mother may as well be, when he died I mourned her loss too and let them both go. I have two half siblings from her and those relationships have gone dormant since I'm not the one *making it happen.*
Relationships are a two way street. You don't want to make the slightest effort, ok bye.